[FF7PC/PSX] Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth (Midgar Demo)

Hey Bosola.  Saw your post on the other thread.  You should talk to ff7rules if you wanted to combine projects or just needed some help.

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Yes. There was some talk about getting together and merging some content in FF7: Ultimate Edition and Rebirth.

We might be able to do some work on Welder together. I see that as the most obvious way to go forward.

I wouldn't be opposed to testing and providing input for your mod though.  Learning about your comprehensive rebalance is what prompted me to revisit Qhimm and make my mod (although mine is littered with bugs, errors, and isnt quite as 'comprehensive' as your mod looks to be).

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Great stuff! Testing is exactly what this demo is about - it's difficult for me, knowing the ins and outs of the new mechanics and element systems, to understand how the new player will feel. Am I pushing too much, too soon? Am I being patronizing? I just can't know until I've player feedback.

Great mod you're planning man I'll definitely use it, but i have some doubts...

-What did you mean by Sephiroth playable? He will be in the party? i didn't quite understand that xD

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In the Kalm flashback, you will be able to control Sephiroth. It's just one of those things people keep on requesting.

- The new spells do you actually add them or just replace with old ones?

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There are a limited number of spells that can be offered in the interface, so I've had to cut and merge some existing spells, yes. I can provide a changelog, but it might be a bit spoilerific...

- The weapons changes, i didn't quite undersand it either

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In short: a few more 'interesting' weapons with remarkable mechanics; a tendency to offer 'sidegrades' rather than straight upgrades; more elemental, status inflicting, healing and MP damaging weaponry.

Yeah, at one point we were gonna merge out projects into one huge one. However i have an idea and I don't know what you guys will think of it but what about merging all 3? Theres good ideas in all 3 and I think if we were to merge them all together into one massive project it would become "The" mod to play for all FFVII fans even those who have played it to death. Thats all I want from the final product for it to be the ultimate mod of an already fantasic game, sure its outdated with the graphics (and theres nothing we can do about that on the PSX version) But if we can throw in so many surprises and extras it would definetly be worth playing again. Welder is a fantastic idea and i will admit i have used it alot in my project. I will be sure to try your demo out asap. Also the sephiroth been controlable thing is prob the easiest thing to do..."ever"

I'd really like to push Welder. I know there are a few bugs in it - I haven't had an awful lot of chance to debug the scripts it produces. But I really do think it's a great way to make some quite complex AI routines easily. Want a monster that compounds sleep with deathblow? Simple. Need a creature to cast Fire2 on its Fire-absorbing pals, target weakened party members and kamikaze in critical? Done.

Remember, I can always write more plugins - all I need is the request.

Ah I see... I didn't remember the Kalm part, controling him... COOL!
Well, some materias are really useless... like underwater AFTER you beat emerald weapon, you don't use it for anything else I guess...
And the weapons mechanics... I guess the whole thing is to make you use more strategy in battles, that's great I'm pretty sure I'll use it once It's ready ;D

Ah one more question you're going to mod the summons elements and status inflicting too?
EDIT: After seeing the summon materia list, I've concluded that there are no need to modify those, they already have, each materia, the respective elemental or status inflict damage.

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Yes. I think that blue materia are some of the most interesting the game has to offer - that they reward careful thinking and complex planning with real yet reasonably balanced power. Unfortunately, by the time they're abundant, the player has other, far simpler means of dealing as much (or more) damage. As such, I'll be offering many of these blue materia - added effect, elemental, MP turbo, various counter and others - early on in the game.

So what is the first noticeable change in the game? Just to confirm that the ppf patch is working.

'Ex-SOLDIER' will be renamed "Mercenary", and you will start with three smoke bombs.

NEWS: I've released a Midgar demo! Along with the new mechanics, spells and materia, it showcases the new enemy encounters and AI for the Midgar chapter. Download it here: http://www.mediafire.com/?rpja1qrb7iy7soo

You've all waited a long time, and you've given a lot of support, so it'd be amiss not to give something in return. So here you have it - the long awaited Midgar Demo patch.

This download includes the patch, a patching program, and full instructions. Use PPF-o-matic with the included PPF patch on an PS1 NTSC version ISO, and you're ready to play - whether that's on an emulator or on a 'chipped' playstation (modded to play backups).

This demo showcase the Midgar portion of Rebirth. You can still play after the Midgar chapter, but you'll be facing mostly vanilla monsters, and there might be bugs. Still, it's a fair taster of what the finished product will offer, and it's a great opportunity for me to sound out some ideas before I commit to them.

And that's where I become a little selfish again: I need feedback. Because I know the mod inside out, it's hard for me to know what is and isn't obvious to new players. And there's only so much debugging I can do - I need to crowdsource some more. That's why I'd really appreciate it if you could spare a moment to tell me your thoughts, what you did and didn't like, what you'd like to see more of etc. etc.

In the meanwhile, though, have a happy new year! And get playing!

Bugfix: The demo had a bug. If Cloud had less than 50% HP in the reactor 'T junction' section, battles there would crash. This has been fixed - just redownload from the original download URL.

The cause was an attack the MPs use when Cloud has low health. I'd assigned an animation, but an invalid one (specifically, FF). The crash resembled a standard type 32 data error. Hey, at least it's something for me to add to my battle error thread.

I didn't experience this one, but I just experienced another : in the first battle against the Corneo Lackeys, I got a "Data error : Scene 384 / Code 32", preventing me from advancing.

Some more feedback :

- there is a battle freeze against the Sergeants you encounter, if you go down instead of up, after jumping off the train (you know; the ones that ring the alarm and force you to turn back). There is no error message - it looks like the enemies try to perform an action (they do their dodging animation), but the battle flow doesn't resume. Which means that neither ally nor foe can act afterwards, effectively freezing the battle.

- there is also a Wobbly Rocket enemy that has its Y coordinate off (it is flying) in the small area with two ladders, after going down in front of the security sensors (not the area where you find the Ether - the one just after. Lower sector 4 Plate, I think it's called).

- there is a typo in the circular area, after jumping off the train, in the battle against the enemies that put you to sleep : "Cure sleep with a physical atatck".

- Oh yeah, and AirBuster was too easy... ...It just had time to use one big bomber before Cloud Braver'ed it for +1000 damage, and Barret Big Shot'ed it for +500, finishing it. I admit that AirBuster is a pain to balance, though.

Other than that, it's cool. I was afraid when Wobbly Rockets kept killing Tifa in one hit and I was low on Phoenix Downs, but other than that, I'd say the mod is quite easy so far. Your changes are subtle... ...maybe too subtle ? Sure I only got to the Corneo mansion, but I feel the experience doesn't differ much from the original so far (Guard Scorpion was almost the same, etc) - but maybe I'm too used to my own mod that tries to turn the game into a completely new game.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, almost forgot that once the materia menu was available, I was surprised to own this mysterious materia :

http://img23.imageshack.us/i/screenshot1gya.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2h.jpg

It's the same materia in the two screenshots ; it's just that the menu "copies" the data of the materia just above it. So, if you change your materia order, its AP / abilities become the ones of the previous materia.

I didn't experience this one, but I just experienced another : in the first battle against the Corneo Lackeys, I got a "Data error : Scene 384 / Code 32", preventing me from advancing.

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Found this almost immediately: the lackey has a counter script that uses an 'unauthorized' attack. PC didn't detect it when I checked attack, possibly because the script is oddly-written (and not to criticize PC - making a prog that can recognize any inappropriate attack calls is a real feat).

I think this is fixed now...

Some more feedback :

- there is a battle freeze against the Sergeants you encounter, if you go down instead of up, after jumping off the train (you know; the ones that ring the alarm and force you to turn back). There is no error message - it looks like the enemies try to perform an action (they do their dodging animation), but the battle flow doesn't resume. Which means that neither ally nor foe can act afterwards, effectively freezing the battle.

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Ah, I'd forgotten about these guys. I've updated their animation data, but I'll have to redo these monsters at some point.

- there is also a Wobbly Rocket enemy that has its Y coordinate off (it is flying) in the small area with two ladders, after going down in front of the security sensors (not the area where you find the Ether - the one just after. Lower sector 4 Plate, I think it's called).

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Thanks for the heads up. I think I know which scene you mean.

- there is a typo in the circular area, after jumping off the train, in the battle against the enemies that put you to sleep : "Cure sleep with a physical atatck".

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Remember, Bosola, you're an English graduates!

- Oh yeah, and AirBuster was too easy... ...It just had time to use one big bomber before Cloud Braver'ed it for +1000 damage, and Barret Big Shot'ed it for +500, finishing it. I admit that AirBuster is a pain to balance, though.

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Apparently, there's some code that makes him take x5 damage to back attacks. I'm not sure where it is - possibly the general battle AI (which PC can't yet edit).

Other than that, it's cool. I was afraid when Wobbly Rockets kept killing Tifa in one hit and I was low on Phoenix Downs,

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Maybe I should up their Atk% and reduce their power a little...

but other than that, I'd say the mod is quite easy so far.

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Noted. An older build was harder, but I worried about how people would find it. Maybe I overcompensated, though. Would you like to see more damage throughput (with more opportunities to steal potions, for fairness?)

Your changes are subtle... ...maybe too subtle ? Sure I only got to the Corneo mansion, but I feel the experience doesn't differ much from the original so far (Guard Scorpion was almost the same, etc) - but maybe I'm too used to my own mod that tries to turn the game into a completely new game.

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Well, I suppose a lot of the differences - in things like elemental and status affinities - don't become clear until status and magic materia become more abundant, or limits are unlocked. Maybe I could bundle more materia with Tifa and Aeris? That way, you can play with a few more elements and statuses, even in Midgar.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, almost forgot that once the materia menu was available, I was surprised to own this mysterious materia :

http://img23.imageshack.us/i/screenshot1gya.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2h.jpg

It's the same materia in the two screenshots ; it's just that the menu "copies" the data of the materia just above it. So, if you change your materia order, its AP / abilities become the ones of the previous materia.

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Interesting. I'll look into this...

I've posted a bugfix. If you have an old version of the patch, redownload and apply to either a fresh or already-patched ISO.

Many thanks to Armorvil, who spotted them.

Do any enemies actually drop potions in the reactor, or do they all have to be stolen? Haven't been at that point in the game for so long that i don't really remember.

They all have to be stolen at present. Steal's really quite valuable in Midgar, because items are scarce.

Also, was it clear to you how 'leaders' improve the abilities of their peers? Watching Garland play the vid, I couldn't help but feel I needed to elaborate more on it. My message about 'L tags' is a bit unclear, and I don't explicitly refer to how leaders help others in-game.

uh sorry, i should have mentioned i haven't actually grabbed the download and tried it yet.  That last post was made mostly out of curiousity is all.  I don't usually play mods until at least a disc of them is complete, though in the case of this mod i'm actually thinking about making an exception and trying it before the first disc is done anyway.

Thanks Bosola

I just played a bit of the bombing mission, thinking from the perspective of a new player, here are some notes so far:

The (L) Tag comment in the first battle is confusing, because you can't actually see the enemy names unless you know to push Select for the help text, and a new player doesn't know to do that.
And when you get that up, you see that they both have an (L), so they are both leaders with no minions, further confusion.
What does being a leader mean? No idea at this stage.
So perhaps have "Press Select to view enemy names and help text" or similar as the first message instead, and leave the Leader explanations for a later date.
Also "Night Shift (L) B" looks a bit strange, would look better as "(L) Night Shift B" imo.
Does it have to be a tag, why not just (Leader)?

"Some enemies heal others, like the Engineer" seems a bit unnecessary, as it will become obvious anyway.
Seeing what the enemy does, and adapting, is the fun part
Also this message comes up in a battle with just 2 engineers without the robot, and there is no healing, extra pointless.

I certainly like your idea of having these helper hints in battle though.
For example, the scorpion battle would be the perfect place to explain how to access the Defend option, which is pretty hidden away.
Since Defend would be perfect to use after the 'Search Scope' scorpion move.

After the scorpion battle, I was left without any Potions or Phoenix Downs, and too weak to obtain more.
A bit harsh for the intro section, having to restart the game. And I even got the 2 free potions from the guards at the start, which some players may have missed.
I did try to steal twice on the way down, but only got an 'Almost...' and a 'Grenade'.
Didn't realise I had to steal to survive.

Thanks for listening, I look forward to playing more of this when I have time

Thanks Bosola

I just played a bit of the bombing mission, thinking from the perspective of a new player, here are some notes so far:

The (L) Tag comment in the first battle is confusing, because you can't actually see the enemy names unless you know to push Select for the help text, and a new player doesn't know to do that.
And when you get that up, you see that they both have an (L), so they are both leaders with no minions, further confusion.
What does being a leader mean? No idea at this stage.
So perhaps have "Press Select to view enemy names and help text" or similar as the first message instead, and leave the Leader explanations for a later date.
Also "Night Shift (L) B" looks a bit strange, would look better as "(L) Night Shift B" imo.
Does it have to be a tag, why not just (Leader)?

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These were all things I realized the moment I saw Garland playing the game. Seeing as I'm angling to become a technical writer, it's actually quite embarrassing. What's an (L) tag? Where do I find it? And what's so special about 'leaders'? I had included it in the manual, but I've a feeling most people won't read it.

"Some enemies heal others, like the Engineer" seems a bit unnecessary, as it will become obvious anyway.
Seeing what the enemy does, and adapting, is the fun part
Also this message comes up in a battle with just 2 engineers without the robot, and there is no healing, extra pointless.

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I should fix this.

Didn't realise I had to steal to survive.

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I guess the question is: how do I make these enemies a threat, but still give players a chance to respond?

Perhaps the answer is to use battle intros that promote using Steal...

Thanks for listening, I look forward to playing more of this when I have time

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And thanks for the comments. These are a big deal to me, and they're all things I'll be addressing.

Hey Bosola.

I've gotten to the part where you recruit Red XIII. There's a problem with the Revive materia. It won't show up in any magic lists and cannot be used in battle.

Also, I received an error message in the battle with the specimen. It didn't happen until late in the battle and I'm not sure what action caused it.

Hopes this helps. And sorry I couldn't be more specific with the Specimen battle.

Revive doesn't provide the 'Life' spell until it reaches Level 2. It's a bit like the Ultima materia.

Then again, maybe I should change this...

I'll look into the H0512 battle. Was it some kind of data error?