NEAT COMPILATION OF PATCHES AND MODS v1.3 for FF7PC..... + FF7 problems covered!

Wow calm down Jari... I was just asking myself why you were so upset about it... it wasn't a personnal attack or something...

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I'm just getting tired of explaining something that ought to be very obvious, if you ask me.

Not to worry, I didn't take it as a personal attack. If I had, I would have been a lot less pleasant.

True... but if we believe what he said (and I have no reason not to believe him) he thought that Srethron would never answer because he thought that he left the forums... so if he would have left the forums... how could he get an answer... However I admit that he shouldn't have included the hand patch without his permission.

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You said it yourself - he should have left it out. He didn't have qualms about putting lots of links in the readme, so just link to it then. Failure to contact != permission.

Hahah... I wasn't exactly explaining what a torrent is ... i was just saying that it's not only used for piracy.

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Of course not. Torrents itself are not bad, quite the opposite - for some things they are the best distribution method ever invented. It's just that the sites he picked are bad choice for this, due to their user base. And, IMHO torrents are not really needed for small patches anyway. Now, the hi-res patch is somewhat of an exception, it really does cause some serious traffic.

Just out of curiosity, are there torrent sites and trackers that have only legal content, such as big patches, linux distros, big demos and such? Does anyone know of any?

1.
A fictional example...
I am an artist and some sites mirror my creations because they're for free.
Now I die.
Nobody knows... no one can contact me.
Would that mean that my creations are limited only to past mirrors? That it is forbidden to spread my free creations elsewhere just because the contact failed??
If yes I would turn in my grave.

This possibly excuses my actions that I didn't left hand patch out even when contact failed.

And...
In my culture I am taught that when I give something it is given. And it's not my right anymore to decide what the receiver may or may not do with the gift.


2.
I have the notification enabled for all the threads that are posted in this torrent. So far I didn't note any masses or "asspirates" heading this way. In fact, that doesn't surprise me much.

You know, I've provided this Step-by-step instructions  by miracle.flame.txt with all the common problems and issues covered there with their solutions as well. In addition I made all patches as user-friendly as possible so if everyone follows my steps he should have no problem. And IMHO I think that my version of ff7music will stop massing of many if not all threads and posts questioning about how to run or use this.


3.
I am sorry if someone feels disturbed by this torrent. But on the other hand I'm very pleased that many people who had no idea had found this compilation and are happy to use it. As would myself if I'd found something like this before spending weeks collecting and speculating how to make it all work.

You know, I've provided this Step-by-step instructions  by miracle.flame.txt with all the common problems and issues covered there with their solutions as well. In addition I made all patches as user-friendly as possible so if everyone follows my steps he should have no problem. And IMHO I think that my version of ff7music will stop massing of many if not all threads and posts questioning about how to run or use this.

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And let me be the first to thank you for that!

I say good for you miracle.flame! You took the initiative and made something that most people wish would have happend AND you took the time to write a VERY descriptive readme that some people should have wrote.

There's something wrong when you release a program to the public, leave very little description on how to use it, and bash n00bs  and\or ignore their pleas of help because someone felt too lazy to write an atiquate description. So what happends after that? They are told to weed through months of old threads to find that ONE that briefly(at best) describes on how to use it.

In my culture I am taught that when I give something it is given. And it's not my right anymore to decide what the receiver may or may not do with the gift.

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I don't care what culture you come from, that's not - universally - your right to decide. It may be the case for some, most, or all of these patches, and that's fine, but you cannot just "assume" that what you hold as true, is the case for everyone creating these things... licenses, GPL, restrictions found in readmes with these programs, etc. all come into play. The best thing to do is ask permission - in my culture, and most I suspect, this is called "common courtesy" - and I am glad that you did that on the whole.

I just suggest that it would be better to assume that you should not redistribute something unless you ask the author (that is, assume it is not for redistribution) - and that way you avoid potentially pissing the authors off. Personally I like to keep a track of interest in my programs and I can't do that if someone uploads them on some other site where I can't garner statistics on the downloads hosted on my server. Either way, your suggestion that everything here is to do with as you please, is a little grating.


[Edit] Here's a thought for you - Qhimm serves up his source code on the front page as "a gift" (your quote) - but with the proviso that you mention him and his website should you use it in your own apps (as he does). You build a program on top of it, and don't bother to say anything about him, and distribute it. Is this fair 'in your culture'? Does Qhimm have a right to say what happens or should he just accept that he doesn't have the 'right to decide anymore'? Well, he should have the right - he is giving a different kind of "gift". The point I'm getting at is that there are different kinds of "giving" and "gifts", and that your blanket assumption that everyone feels the same as you with their code that they have worked hard at, is fundamentally flawed.

You ripped the context just to serve your purpose.
You cannot compare Qhimm (whixh is a serving institution like a library)
with a patch or mod (which is free duplicable tool)
That is brighter than sun.

The rules are made to serve some purpose. If there are no exceptions in the rules those are not rules but a programme for dead machine. If I know both the purpose and my action well I can make an exception and break the rule if it don't messes with the purpose.
Be human..not machine.

A bit philosophy but to see principles. Why argue? What's REALLY wrong?

with a patch or mod (which is free duplicable tool)

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It's your automatic assumption of this that I'm getting at. If someone says "please do not redistribute", then by your previous arguments, you'd do it anyway, since it's what you want.

So you would draw the line at editors like Qhimm's, because they are a 'serving institution', but not patches and mods.. even though they might have similar time and effort ploughed into them by their creators?

Just interested in your philosophies.

If someone says "please do not redistribute", then by your previous arguments, you'd do it anyway, since it's what you want.

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If someone would have said that then I'd break the purpose. Since nobody did (in fact Srethron did opposite...see quote in post #10) I did not break the purpose (in fact I served it despite breaking the rule).

I don't like to repeat but I really mean it

Why argue? What's REALLY wrong?

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And as I said, I'm not trying to argue it, just discussing. Still, I think I'm done since you've made your stance clear (though I don't understand what you mean by "break the purpose"), and though I disagree with your approach I don't think we're going to get any further.

2.
I have the notification enabled for all the threads that are posted in this torrent. So far I didn't note any masses or "asspirates" heading this way. In fact, that doesn't surprise me much.

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And the fact that you don't actually seem to pay attention does not surprise me much. Funny that yet another person with FF7.exe that can't be patched shows up just after your release. You do know the most likely reason why it can't be patched, right?

There's something wrong when you release a program to the public, leave very little description on how to use it, and bash n00bs  and\or ignore their pleas of help because someone felt too lazy to write an atiquate description. So what happends after that? They are told to weed through months of old threads to find that ONE that briefly(at best) describes on how to use it.

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This happens after that.

We do not support pirates. As in; we do not support pirates by posting readmes at a sites known to be populated with them. Which part of the "We do not support pirates" are you having trouble understanding?

Why argue? What's REALLY wrong?

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All the reasons we have mentioned, and you have failed to address. You are just making excuses to justify your actions.

Let's see...

Now I die.
Nobody knows... no one can contact me.
Would that mean that my creations are limited only to past mirrors? That it is forbidden to spread my free creations elsewhere just because the contact failed??
If yes I would turn in my grave.

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Excuse. You didn't even try asking in the forum if someone had seen Srethron lately.

You ripped the context just to serve your purpose.
You cannot compare Qhimm (whixh is a serving institution like a library)
with a patch or mod (which is free duplicable tool)
That is brighter than sun.

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Excuse. ...and what is that even supposed to mean?

That the patches are somehow lesser than Qhimm's tools?

But what does this even matter? You are only interested in justifying your own actions.

Funny that yet another person with FF7.exe that can't be patched shows up just after your release. You do know the most likely reason why it can't be patched, right?

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 :-D  :-D  :-D  Now where's the big proof this certainly has something to do with my torrent?

Excuse. You didn't even try asking in the forum if someone had seen Srethron lately.

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As a matter of fact I did.

Excuse. ...and what is that even supposed to mean?
That the patches are somehow lesser than Qhimm's tools?

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No... That means they are meant to be spread... punctum.
If you don't wish to understand you never will.

Now I'm quite annoyed by filling this topic with arguments. This leads nowhere. So let's stop.
If someone has this feeling that I did something wroooong and baaad then....well...
..it's his own feeling.

Ok now i got some free time to post and as i'm not good word's. I will just get down to what i'm going to say.

i asked stormmedia and Borde to say yes that he could use the NPC RP in the torrent.

Then i got one more PM saying that could he use it and got stormmedia and Borde to say yes so i did.

Now i did not want to have my Sephiroth Patch beta patch in as it was a beta. It was just for the ppl for the forum to test for me.

                                                     
 
                                                   So i.m asking that it be removed

But i know it to late but i still want it removing

I asked you TWO times if it's okay to post your patches (both).
You could see the file structure of the torrent in your PM and there was your Sephiroth Patch beta too.
I understand you probably didn't have time to read the PM carefully but you gave the permission so now it is uploaded on the torrent sites and people share it already.

I can upload a new torrent without your Sephiroth Patch beta but that will do no good I presume.
..it's late  :|

What do you suggest?

:-D  :-D  :-D  Now where's the big proof this certainly has something to do with my torrent?

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We could ask Qhimm to go through the server logs, to see if they show a referrer. But then again, that wouldn't matter to you, would it? You'd just say that it's not your fault.

Not to mention, for example Pirate Bay does not parse URLs in links, for this very reason. And if they just copied the link from a text file to browser, it wouldn't show a referrer either.

But like I said, you'd just come up with another excuse in your denial.

I do find it funny that you find the post funny, though, With your smilies and all. I'd say that it perfectly demonstrates your will to harm the community.

As a matter of fact I did.

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As a matter of fact, I'm inclined to think that you are lying. Unless you provide me with a reason to believe you, of course.

No... That means they are meant to be spread... punctum.
If you don't wish to understand you never will.

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I see. And you decided this?

Does "meant to be spread on the terms of the authors" ring a bell? Or" meant to be spread in a way that does not harm the community"?

And no, I do not understand intentionally harming this community, or asking the authors for permission just for looks - since it doesn't actually seem to matter to you.

Piste. ...now, ain't it cool when we mix in our native languages? No, wait... it's not. It just makes us look like condescending asses, actually.

If someone has this feeling that I did something wroooong and baaad then....well...
..it's his own feeling.

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Thank you for clearing that up for us. Very admirable attitude for someone who wants to spread the works of others.

What do you suggest?

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I have a suggestion for you. That you stop this stupidassery, and don't make a torrent at all. Easier that way, don't you think?

Hello everyone, I've been following this for a while now, lurking around, and finally decided to register and post here.

1) Wanna know something? I'm using Ultima Edition of FF7, even though I own it - the real CDs are several hours away. Wanna know something else? Every single mod and patch that I got from this site (and was subsequently put into that torrent) works with it, after downgrading to stock 1.2 (which, IIRC, was also in that torrent). I can, however, totally respect that you do not want to support pirates (and I agree with it).

2) Jari - for one, telling people to "search" is a terrible way of running a community. Do you know what happens when a community starts doing this? It stagnates and rarely grows any larger. Anyone new to the community gets told to search, or if they were smart enough to search, they find several threads filled with "USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION NOOBCAKE RTFM" instead of actual help - and what actual help they can find is often vague and/or wrong.

3)

That you stop this stupidassery, and don't make a torrent at all. Easier that way, don't you think?

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Great plan, great plan. Make a time machine and stop it before it starts. I understand you're trying to nip the "next time" at the bud, but you really sound like a pretentious ass.

4) The instructions included with this torrent are much clearer than those on this site, and it's really quite nice to have a torrent of everything in "one place". Perhaps a private site-only torrent, instead of uploading it to everyone and anyone?

5) This was the only place where the "hi-res cloud patch" is in a usable form. On the "project links and status" thread, there's nothing but a link to "cloud.ffpatch". Well, what's an ffpatch? Nothing about it on that same page - a little completly unintuitive, don't you think? Sure, you can find it by searching - and shuffling through more than a few pages.

That's my thoughts for right now. Peace out holmes.  :mrgreen:

1) Wanna know something? I'm using Ultima Edition of FF7, even though I own it - the real CDs are several hours away. Wanna know something else? Every single mod and patch that I got from this site (and was subsequently put into that torrent) works with it, after downgrading to stock 1.2 (which, IIRC, was also in that torrent).

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Oh great. Can I add that to my list of reasons why this torrent was a really bad idea? Pwease?

2) Jari - for one, telling people to "search" is a terrible way of running a community. Do you know what happens when a community starts doing this? It stagnates and rarely grows any larger. Anyone new to the community gets told to search, or if they were smart enough to search, they find several threads filled with "USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION NOOBCAKE RTFM" instead of actual help - and what actual help they can find is often vague and/or wrong.

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The alternative is that it gets filled with the same questions and answers over and over again. I'd hardly call that much better. Besides, it's not like the 'tech support'-part of this community needs to grow anywhere - good Wiki would serve the purpose just as well.

The modding and Q-gears (if you want to see them as separate things) are different matter, but telling people to search for answers to technical problems shouldn't affect them.

And you can moderate the repetitive threads away, if you want to. Besides, the idea would be that they wouldn't post that question in the first place, but would rather find the search-button on their own.

3)

That you stop this stupidassery, and don't make a torrent at all. Easier that way, don't you think?

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Great plan, great plan. Make a time machine and stop it before it starts. I understand you're trying to nip the "next time" at the bud, but you really sound like a pretentious ass.

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That, and pointing out that perhaps it would have been a good idea to ask on the forums before posting the torrent.

4) The instructions included with this torrent are much clearer than those on this site, and it's really quite nice to have a torrent of everything in "one place". Perhaps a private site-only torrent, instead of uploading it to everyone and anyone?

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Now, this sounds actually like a constructive idea.

5) This was the only place where the "hi-res cloud patch" is in a usable form. On the "project links and status" thread, there's nothing but a link to "cloud.ffpatch". Well, what's an ffpatch? Nothing about it on that same page - a little completly unintuitive, don't you think? Sure, you can find it by searching - and shuffling through more than a few pages.

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Hey can you just give me the time to finish this tread before telling me it's "unintuitive"... I started this thread only some time ago... at least there is links that works now and it was the goal of this thread...

stormmedia - I only started lurking around a couple weeks ago - and as such, didn't know. I figured that thread (or the one it was based off of) was "official", and/or had the most recent info. If there was no such thread beforehand then, yes, it was an excellent idea to create it. I apologize for sounding harsh.

jari - so, what it really sounds like here is that miracle.flame uploaded it to torrents et. al. before consulting the community. A quick look about at torrent sites doesn't show the typical idiotic comments of pirates swarming the torrent, so I doubt it was really that harmful. Ah well, guess we know what to do next time. I'm sure he had good intentions, but they said that's what the road to Hell is paved with.

Koiu Lpoi, thank you for fair-minded comments.

ice_cold513, I think that it's not quite possible to remove most of the posted torrents. There are numerous sites of this kind that share the torrents between them. Removing it from one site will be something like with a hydra - severe one head and three will grow. Otherwise I would have no problem removing it. I was considering myself if it's appropriate to include this patch. However I am open to any other suggestion that I am able to accomplish even the word "no" was said after the deed was permitted and done.

Jari, you seem to be quite fertile soil for growing conflicts but you know what..it takes two to tango..and this is the last time I'm bothering with you even if you want to have last word.

Just to make those things clear:
1. That supposed-to-be-my-fault question about chocobo patch that failed finding valid executable
 - that thread is not one of those listed in my torrent
 - individual chocobo patch it's discussing is not a part of my torrent
 - ...as if it really matters...still no masses

2. That thing about telling I DID ask someone if he had seen Srethron lately
 - I did not tell it for you to believe me as you may think, I told it for you to realize you better don't say what I did or did not when you don't know
 - still I am not desperate to persuade anyone to believe me, even the asked may not defend me, it's not in my real interest
 - oh and one more thing.. I'm not lying

3. About anatomizing the purpose of a free patch
 - get real  :-D

4. About mixing our native languages
 - latin word "punctum" is not of my native language, actually

Less fights, more fruits.  :wink:

ice_cold513, I think that it's not quite possible to remove most of the posted torrents.

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Indeed. Oh, you don't need me to argue against you, do you?

However I am open to any other suggestion that I am able to accomplish even the word "no" was said after the deed was permitted and done.

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Great rhetoric there, buddy. How about ending the masquerade here, and admitting that you are saying that only because you know that nothing can be done now. Excellent way of giving the impression that you care.

1. That supposed-to-be-my-fault question about chocobo patch that failed finding valid executable
 - that thread is not one of those listed in my torrent

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Eh? You have somehow magically limited every pirate to posting in threads listed in your torrent? You really have some amazing abilities, can I have some of them, please?

- individual chocobo patch it's discussing is not a part of my torrent

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So? It is an excellent tool for finding warezed copies. I don't think anyone ever claimed it to be part of your torrent, but in case you didn't notice; that torrent of yours contains lots of links to this forum. This forum contains links to download the patch. And so on.

2. That thing about telling I DID ask someone if he had seen Srethron lately
 - I did not tell it for you to believe me as you may think, I told it for you to realize you better don't say what I did or did not when you don't know
 - still I am not desperate to persuade anyone to believe me, even the asked may not defend me, it's not in my real interest
 - oh and one more thing.. I'm not lying

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Blah blah blah no proof blah blah. Go lie somewhere else.

I would say that it's very much in your interest to prove that you are not lying. In case you haven't noticed, you don't have much of a credibility here.

3. About anatomizing the purpose of a free patch
 - get real  :-D

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Making sense helps, you know.




EDIT

If we are really serious about distributing packs, why not use some Content Distribution Network, like Coral?

No need for Torrent clients (it works like any regular link you'd click - with your browser that is), you can pull the file if you need to and thus you can also change and update the contents and so forth. No annoying pirate bating, either.

Coral is limited to files smaller than 50MB - this thing is less than that, is it not? It's primarily meant for mirroring websites, anyway - but it should work for single files just as well. I think.

If we are really serious about distributing packs, why not use some Content Distribution Network, like Coral?

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Now this is one constructive suggestion what to do. If people find the package this way chances are they won't bother with the torrent. I will try to look into this because I've never heard of Coral before. Let's see what can be done.