[FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.2.3 & v1.1b)

[ryfee]

Thank you so much for getting back to me, Callisto!

For some reason I never guessed that Zombie would be useful for HP... After getting Regen and Zombie the fight went so much smoother! I beat them.
Now just need to finish up Disc 1 and move on to Disc 2.

Thank you for the wonderful work!

 

[kekko1285]

There shouldn't be issues with using this mod and any of the graphics or music mods at the same time. I've been using some of them by myself and never noticed any incompatibilities. Maybe even the Hard-mode that is mentioned in the list from your link above works with it, but it would make the game harder than intended, so I would advise not using the Hard-mode on top of this mod.

The most convenient way to get it all installed is getting the Lunatic Pandora Mod Pack first, and then follow the instructions for installing this mod.  Of course you can also install each mod that comes with LP separately - it would just take longer. But no matter how you decide, there shouldn't be any incompatibilities. If there are, just report it and we'll see what we can do.

Thanks for your interest and have a good time reliving Final Fantasy VIII.

Thanks for your answer!

I used the lunatic pandora installer and your mod. Everything looks fine so far (I've just got Ifrit) but one thing. When I use magics during the battle, they don't decrease. They do though, when I use magics from the menu (to cure for example). Any way/suggestion I can fix this?

 

[Callisto]

Look for the Magic.dll which is part of the Hard Mode and remove it. It is likely stored in your FF8 parent folder.

 

[Ayoyo]

I happen to be in a similar position, recently reinstalling FF8 for a rerun and want to give your mod a go, it sounds right up my alley with added difficulty and balancing things out in a tasteful way. But just wanna make sure that the lunatic pandora package doesn't mess with the balance you've intended, so I probably should delete all the files relating to the hard mode that were automatically installed with the package. So to make sure - do you reckon the following files ought to be deleted in order to play your mod without other gameplay modifications messing it up: "Damage.dll, Hard.dll, HP.dll, Magic.dll and Publish.dll"?

 

[kekko1285]

I happen to be in a similar position, recently reinstalling FF8 for a rerun and want to give your mod a go, it sounds right up my alley with added difficulty and balancing things out in a tasteful way. But just wanna make sure that the lunatic pandora package doesn't mess with the balance you've intended, so I probably should delete all the files relating to the hard mode that were automatically installed with the package. So to make sure - do you reckon the following files ought to be deleted in order to play your mod without other gameplay modifications messing it up: "Damage.dll, Hard.dll, HP.dll, Magic.dll and Publish.dll"?

Yeah, good point.

I didn't know that Lunatica Pandora was also adding this HardMod that substantially changes the gameplay.

Any advice from more experienced modders it's highly appreciated.

 

[Callisto]

So to make sure - do you reckon the following files ought to be deleted in order to play your mod without other gameplay modifications messing it up: "Damage.dll, Hard.dll, HP.dll, Magic.dll and Publish.dll"?

The first four would definitely interfere with this mod's intentions, so I would advise not using them on top of this mod, by moving them somewhere else, as a backup. Publish.dll just removes the Squaresoft logo on startup, but I guess it needs to be removed too as I've heard of incompatibilities with the latest version of Roses and Wine music mod.

So yeah, you're better off removing them all. They would probably work just fine alongside this mod, if you wanted to further increase the game's difficulty, but there might be unexpected bugs or glitches I'm not aware of (haven't tried these dll's myself yet). No matter how you decide, just report back in case you face any issues and enjoy

 

[kekko1285]

I'm a bit confused about a couple of things:

I'm right now in the training center (Where you meet T-Rex for first time). Party is just Squall and Quistis. I have 100 Curas (already!) from Siren ability. I noticed that if a junction these 100 Curas with VIT, my vitality goes from 7 to 37. Weirdly though, physical damage inflicted...increases! I tested with Grat enemies in the training center only, but when they whip my Quistis (LV11) when I have no magic in junction on my VIT, average damage is 35/36. If I junction 100 Curas and therefore get my VIT to 37, average damage inflicted is...45!! (Both Grat tested in these 2 scenarios were lv 9).
Any explanation? Suggestions how to fix this?

Another 2 points:
1) I play with ATB on "wait". But differently from FF7 and FF9, ATB keep going when I am on the "select target" phase e.g. it stops when I am selecting a spell, but it starts again when I have to select the target for the selected spell. I know this is not a mod issue and it's how is intended to originally work the game, but I wonder if someone released any mod to fix this annoying issue.

2) On the same point, is there any mod out there that allows to skip/reduce the GF animations? GF are quite strong with this mod, and I am relying on them heavily, but the length of the animation is really annoying.

 

[Callisto]

I have just tested this under the exact same circumstances as yours (LV11 Quistis, Cura junctioned to her Vit, facing LV9 Grat) and the results were as follows:

Average damage when Vit was 7: 34 HP
Average damage when Vit was 37: 30 HP

So in my case, higher Vit did reduce the damage inflicted by Grat's standard physical attack, even though the differences within these ranges are rather negligible - the difference was there. Did you remove the Hard.dll from the Hard Mode? I can imagine this being the reason for your findings, as this one modifies both player and enemy melee damage.

As for your other two suggestions, I would really love to implement them, especially shorter GF summons, but it's not an easy thing to do, sadly. I think it hasn't even been achieved for FFVII either, and FFVII has been modded for quite a bit longer than FFVIII. Maybe it will be possible at some time, but probably not anytime soon.

 

[kekko1285]

I have just tested this under the exact same circumstances as yours (LV11 Quistis, Cura junctioned to her Vit, facing LV9 Grat) and the results were as follows:

Average damage when Vit was 7: 34 HP
Average damage when Vit was 37: 30 HP

So in my case, higher Vit did reduce the damage inflicted by Grat's standard physical attack, even though the differences within these ranges are rather negligible - the difference was there. Did you remove the Hard.dll from the Hard Mode? I can imagine this being the reason for your findings, as this one modifies both player and enemy melee damage.

As for your other two suggestions, I would really love to implement them, especially shorter GF summons, but it's not an easy thing to do, sadly. I think it hasn't even been achieved for FFVII either, and FFVII has been modded for quite a bit longer than FFVIII. Maybe it will be possible at some time, but probably not anytime soon.

Thanks for your answer!

Weird, I did remove all the dlls from the hard mode patch, so I should not have anything interfering with dmg calculation from your mod. Any further suggestion? Do you recommend to start a clean game removing hard dlls before starting?

Yeah, I can imagine shortening GF animation being a pain. I have to say though that it would be the least significant change amongst the two I mentioned in my previous message. I find incredibly annoying having to play at slower battle speed possible to mitigate the fact that the ATB is not actually frozen when choosing the enemy. Any hope for that in the future?

 

[Callisto]

Have you checked the troubleshooting section on the Lunatic Pandora mod page?

If none of that helped, try replacing your current FF8_en.exe with a clean one - it could be that it was altered by the LP Pack installer to apply the Hard Mode changes. If you didn't backup a clean exe before installing all the mods, you can redownload it from Steam.

Making the ATB stop when selecting targets would probably be easier than shortening the GF summons, but right off the bat, I wouldn't know how to do that either. I'll keep that idea in mind though. It would be a convenient change for sure.

 

[Ayoyo]

Having an absolute blast with this mod so far. Trying really hard not to get carried away by side stuff so as to not get too powerful, would hate to spoil the difficulty. Dunno if it's been mentioned, but an option to turn exp off would be in order if possible. Overleveling often becomes a problem with these mods if you enjoy fighting, and the last thing I want to do is end up ahead of the curve, but I like to take my time too so not having to fear leveling up would be nice.

Other than that, really digging the added little stuff like Selphie giving me something nice at the prom for joining the committee, Zell just donating me his inauguration money on the train(lol) or what I presume was an additional reward for not getting caught during the train mission. If these existed in the original game, I had no recollection whatsoever so I assume it's new extra stuff for being attentive, which is nice.

One of the best things you have going on is the vast differences in natural stat growth for characters, absolutely the right choice to give them an identity and their own strengths. However it does seem that some characters take a longer while to bloom though, seeing as Rinoa just joined the party and evidently as the leading lady of the story gets to trump the other girls in every possible stat despite being 2 levels lower than them, lol. I do hope it evens out eventually, seems detrimental to the idea of unique identities and different strengths to have someone just be hands down better.

Speaking of which, I'm interested to see which direction you've taken the ladies in. Boring and homogenous in vanilla, I'm really hoping to see some differences between them here so there's actually a choice to be made as to what kind of magic user you want. Selphie always felt to me like she should be a fast but fragile glass caster, with Quistis on the other end of the spectrum sporting some strength and more sturdiness to go with that magic(I mean come on, she goes around whipping the crap out of dragons and stuff) while Rinoa would be the heavy hitter with highest magic stat but average everything else. Am I way off or how have you assigned their roles/strength?

This turned into quite the random rant but I'll have some feedback of actual substance later. Now off to play some more.

 

[Callisto]

Good point regarding the stat balance between Rinoa and the other girls. My thought behind giving Rinoa the better overall stats was her Angelo skills likely being the weakest Limit Break in this mod, and also her Sorceress bonus (somewhere it's stated that only females with a high natural affinity towards Magic are capable of becoming a Sorceress). So in her case, high stat gains should be limited to Magic and Spirit - there's no real reason to make her surpass the others in other areas as well. After all, she's not a SeeD and never had any training, contrary to the others. I'll change that soon, thanks for bringing it up, and also for your overall feedback.

As for disabling EXP, I like that idea too, but it's likely a bit more difficult to implement. Can't promise anything yet, but I'll look into it.

 

[Ayoyo]

Glad to hear my rant could inspire some new changes. I tend to get passionate about the idea of creating unique identities and distinct roles in the gameplay for characters that also compliments their story or personality or overall disposition as it's depicted in the game. I think it not only makes the game more interesting from a strategic standpoint but also makes sense from a story&immersion standpoint exactly in the way as you, for example, explained the rationale behind why Rinoa who has the Sorceress affinity should easily have the highest magic and spirit scores. It's just awesome stuff and makes sense in the story.

I already brought up some points regarding how Quistis and Selphie might be characterized in accordance with their features&profiles, but to reiterate in gameplay terms: I strongly feel Selphie is suited towards magic&speed as primary stats and probably luck as secondary stat so the lack of defensive stats would make the player work carefully to keep her alive and make use of that speed; Quistis is the most physical of the girls so I'd like to see magic&strength as primary stats with vitality as secondary to make her kind of allude to a battle mage role of sorts, that'd be cool. Do those sound like sensible ideas to you? And of course Rinoa with magic&spirit. That would certainly make them all truly distinct, interesting, and have different uses. I'm already starting to theorycraft as to party setups, boss strategies and which one of them works best in any given scenario.

 

[Callisto]

Making Selphie have an advantage in Speed has been in my mind all the time, actually. Somehow I always forgot about it when working on updates.

Anyway, here's a smaller update that changes character base stats even further. Replace your main files in lang-en; changes are in effect immediately, no need to start a new game (mod installer coming soon).

This also alters some stat gains from Junctions (for example, Regen's effect on Vit and Spr has been reduced) and Rinoa's Limit Break can now be triggered slightly earlier than that of the other characters.

 

[Ayoyo]

Wow, that was fast. Appreciated; gonna install it right away.

Trying really hard not to get too powerful and keep levels low. Still not sure if I want to try and beat the entire game without card refinement, so far there certainly hasn't been any need to. Just drawing whatever magic I come across as I progress, the mod still generously gives you major stat upgrades if you take the time to draw full stacks.

Far as bosses go, so far nothing too threatening: Elvoret went down quite easily. X-ATM couldn't handle lightning summon+double thunder combo although it took a few tries to keep quetzalcoatl alive long enough to deal major damage.  Diabolos has a nifty new spell in "pain" but blinding him still works and gave me ample time to draw full demi stacks in between heals. Gerogero didn't feel any harder than in vanilla, didn't try to phoenix down him though, I wonder if it still 1 shots him. The two cyborgs in the Laguna sequence were handily made harmless by silence+blind, allowing me to get full death stacks - a major upgrade to stats.

Old tricks still worked on Minotaur&Sacred, drawcasting double on myself lets me float+protect everyone quickly, mitigating their damage so free double stacks for all. Getting occasionally confused turned out to be the only real threat in the fight as my characters took to casting death on my own party and other cool stuff, so that was fun. Still, I managed to recover and beat the boss on first try. I can see why the story bosses are a bit on the easy side but Minotaur could stand to be a bit more complicated IMO, being an optional boss? Of course, if you for some reason don't use float (even though the game gives you a clear-as-day hint about it and even scanning straight up tells you to use float) I suppose the fight can be a bit harder, but by this point you've gotten regen from vysages on the way to the dungeon, or at least zombie from Gerogero so you have easily enough health to tank even the combo attack. Personally I didn't even bother with float towards the end, the combo attack of theirs damaged me just enough to cycle through limits before healing back up.

By this point I was about level 15 with Squall at 18 so maybe I'm already overleveled.

Trying to keep my levels to a minimum from now on to see if I run into trouble at any point. Excited to see if the difficulty amps up with Edea.

Edit: interestingly, shear trigger doesn't give me access to fated circle. First I thought it was just randomly not triggering, only rough divide, but then I checked the status screen and it doesn't show up there either so it definitely didn't unlock. I don't know if this bug existed in vanilla since I always went straight to lion heart. Or is something wrong with my game?

 

[kekko1285]

Have you checked the troubleshooting section on the Lunatic Pandora mod page?

If none of that helped, try replacing your current FF8_en.exe with a clean one - it could be that it was altered by the LP Pack installer to apply the Hard Mode changes. If you didn't backup a clean exe before installing all the mods, you can redownload it from Steam.

Making the ATB stop when selecting targets would probably be easier than shortening the GF summons, but right off the bat, I wouldn't know how to do that either. I'll keep that idea in mind though. It would be a convenient change for sure.

Thanks for your answer again. Unfortunately I checked both pandora troubleshooting and tried to replace the exe with the original one, but still same issue with more physical damage when VIT is higher.

Any other suggestions or test I could try?

 

[Callisto]

@Ayoyo: If you have already got Regen, Demi, Death and Double for all characters by drawing them in battle, there is not much more to gain from Triple Triad until the Level 6 boss cards become available mid disc 2 (maybe Water, Bio and Meltdown with a lot of patience, but that's pretty much it).

Regarding difficulty, I think the aforementioned spells is what removes part of it for you, rather than your current levels. Maybe I should remove Death from the Cyborgs again, as well as Regen from Vysage - Zombie on HP is actually just fine at this point in the game; and for Vit and Spr, Protect and Shell should do. As for Double from Minotaur, it might be better to just put another limited source for Double spells somewhere, to make sure the player can use some for this battle.

My respect for drawing 100 units of each spell though. Especially getting a full stack of Demis directly from Diablos must have been tiring, considering you usually don't have Mag-J available for everyone when facing him right away. Of course, players who are willing to spend the time should be rewarded in some way, but the spells in question might be a little too good for disc 1. I'll reconsider some of the spell availability for next update, thanks for sharing

Oh, and not getting access to Fated Circle after upgrading to Shear Trigger is nothing to worry about. Fated Circle and Blasting Zone availability is just slighty delayed in this mod.


@kekko1285: At this point, I would consider a complete reinstallation of the game using Steam functions. Then, after Lunatic Pandora contents are installed as well, immediately following this step mentioned on the Lunatic Pandora Page:

If you don't want to use the Add-On's, go to "/HL_Files/DLL_in/" and remove them from the folder, but leave "Hext_in" alone.

Your bug is very likely caused by the Hard Mode add-ons. Make sure to not start the game using FF8_Ultra_Launcher. It's looks like it's only needed for the Hard Mode add-ons and UV fix anyway, the latter being included in this mod as well.

Feel free to report back again. I hope you'll get the issue fixed.

 

[Ayoyo]

Haha, maybe I'm a bit obsessive when it comes to drawing new spells. Where the potential of the risk/reward mechanic (should I risk drawing spells from a tough boss and dying or play it safe) comes to full fruition in my mind, is when you're really forced to consider whether it's worth the risk and/or trouble to draw. Diablos is actually a good example of this: he's no slouch even when blinded thanks to pain so you're really on edge the whole time trying to manage your hp which he drains with gravija constantly; now try to fit in some drawing on top of it all with poor magic stats. If the player does put in the effort to accomplish that, they should definitely feel rewarded as I was; demi is strong and ahead of the curve which feels satisfying but it's not TOO strong towards the end of disc 1, so if it was made so that demi is the strongest magic&strength junction spell for disc 1, the balance there would be superb. This is a strong case for removing death as you said and probably berserk as well seeing as it's better for strength than demi (or make make it available via unconventional means like refinement etc). Or, you know, nerf the amount it increases strength, but that's technical stuff which I know nothing about. It would also make players choose whether they want to put the demis on strength or magic; can't have the best of both worlds just yet so you have to weigh your options more. A nice additional tactical/decision making element especially for the last boss fights of disc 1.

Overall it does seem logical that bosses offer the best drawable spells at this point in the game so also agreed on removing regen. Doubles do seem overkill - I rationed the initial doubles I got from Balamb garden to last me the entire disc 1 and I used them on the harder bosses. I think it introduced an entirely new resource management/economy element to the game I had yet to experience. 1 or 2 doubles per boss should suffice for players so adding another single-use draw point for disc 1 is more than generous. I had some left over from my Balamb doubles by the time I got to Minotaur even after using them on some bossfights.

Maybe this'll be the first time I get every weapon upgrade in order, then. Cool stuff.

 

[kekko1285]

@kekko1285: At this point, I would consider a complete reinstallation of the game using Steam functions. Then, after Lunatic Pandora contents are installed as well, immediately following this step mentioned on the Lunatic Pandora Page:

Your bug is very likely caused by the Hard Mode add-ons. Make sure to not start the game using FF8_Ultra_Launcher. It's looks like it's only needed for the Hard Mode add-ons and UV fix anyway, the latter being included in this mod as well.

Feel free to report back again. I hope you'll get the issue fixed.

Hey there, thanks for your answer again. So, I did some testing, and I tried the following:

- Clean installation, adding only your mod and RaW (not Lunatic Pandora mod pack): Quistis with VIT 11 gets around 33 dmg, while with VIT 41 gets around 45 dmg.
- Clean installation, only Lunatic Pandora mod pack installed without any of the dlls from the Hard mod: Quistis with VIT 7 gets around 20 dmg, while with VIT 35 gets 31 dmg.
- Clean installation, no mods whatsoever: Quistis with VIT 7gets around 21 dmg, while with VIT 35 gets 18 dmg.


Help.

 

[Callisto]

Try only this mod once more, but this time without the Ragnarok_mod.txt file in RaW/GLOBAL/Hext, and post results.

Ayoyo, your ideas and reasoning behind them sound good to me. Only thing I'm not sure about is making Demi better than Berserk on Strength again. Berserk actually fits the stat better than Demi, due to what the status effect causes, whereas Demi has the stronger connection to HP and Magic stats. Maybe I'll make another spell the strongest one for disc 1 - one that is equally as effective on both Strength and Magic, to make players set priorities in regards to where to put it. Removig Double from Minotaur (maybe even from Edea) and creating another one-time Double Draw Point on disc 1 is exactly what I had in mind. Will definitely be changed for next update. I like the idea of the game having more resource management elements too.