Field Scene Screens (non bombing mission) Gallery

[SpooX]

Done a little test for the studs on the right side....

oh and the black cheese, is a ring according to the reflections.



with regards to the blue haze around the TV, it seems they used a simple point light, so the metal around the TV reflects this, and not the air around it. I might do a test for that as well, if you like.
 8)

 

[Nightmarish]

Spoox perspective looks better indeed.
It's like it seems as a different angle.

 

[SpooX]

and with an added light in front slightly above the TV.


 8)

 

[Mayo Master]

Great work! just a quick review. In the original picture I notice that the metalic surface is dirtier with rust and dirt too (not just dust), the blanket has more intense color and patches on it are more obvious and the trophies are shiny gold, not just mustard. Also towels are creased.

For the metallic surface, I may consider adding more dirt to the texture, but in terms of rust, it has plenty already. For the "intense colors of the blanket", it is also a matter of lighting. I think you perceive that because a non-negligible part of the blanket in my render is in the shadow of the tv light. As for the trophies, they're not that shiny (I made them very shiny at first, and got a comment that they were too shiny) - beside they already have specular intensity to the max. As for the towels, I already discussed the matter in an earlier post.

If you're having trouble matching lights, there is always post production, aka Photoshop!

The idea crossed my mind, namely for adding the layered tiles for simulating variations in lighting, as Cyb mentioned before. However, I would like to be able to make it without post-processing as much as possible.

Done a little test for the studs on the right side....
oh and the black cheese, is a ring according to the reflections.
with regards to the blue haze around the TV, it seems they used a simple point light, so the metal around the TV reflects this, and not the air around it. I might do a test for that as well, if you like.
 8)

Shall I transform the black cheese into a smooth, large metal ring then? I can do that. Concerning the studs, I modified the right-most stud so that is is nicely fixed into the wall, which may be a difference from the original. However, I have a question: in your scene, does the last but one stud (the upright one) actually touches the pipe wall? Or did you twist the perspective by aligning it closer to the centre of the shelf? In my renders, the studs were aligned with respect to the edge of the shelf - I don't know if you'd advise a change on this.
As for the light, actually I perceive the opposite. I think the air is colored in the original (namely I feel that the blue halo makes a clearly visible sphere, part of which are obvious in the down-left section, where the pipe is "cut". I think it also really shows in the deep section of the pipe, right below the hanging clothes (it is not directly lit by the tv, but blue scattered light comes in front of it). The light (as opposed to the scattered light) itself isn't that blue in my opinion, else it would change the hue of the blanket and pillow case as well. You're welcome to go ahead with a try on volumetric lights on your side to check things out.

Spoox perspective looks better indeed.
It's like it seems as a different angle.

Well, I did try to align the camera to the original scene in the best of my abilities. True, making pre-alignment with Sketchup might have been better, but it was not within my possibilities (and unless someone else has the Pro version of Sketchup for exporting .obj files, it still isn't). Though I don't know if the camera position can be exported in the process.

and with an added light in front slightly above the TV.
 8)

Interesting. However, here comes another question: for my scene, I put light sources where there could be "physical" light sources... I don't know if putting light sources where there's no actual item that emits light is a desirable course of action...

 

[SpooX]

Shall I transform the black cheese into a smooth, large metal ring then? I can do that.

Yes please.

Concerning the studs, I modified the right-most stud so that is is nicely fixed into the wall, which may be a difference from the original. However, I have a question: in your scene, does the last but one stud (the upright one) actually touches the pipe wall? Or did you twist the perspective by aligning it closer to the centre of the shelf? In my renders, the studs were aligned with respect to the edge of the shelf - I don't know if you'd advise a change on this.

yes they are, all connecting from the shelve to the surface of the pipe.

As for the light, actually I perceive the opposite. I think the air is colored in the original (namely I feel that the blue halo makes a clearly visible sphere, part of which are obvious in the down-left section, where the pipe is "cut". I think it also really shows in the deep section of the pipe, right below the hanging clothes (it is not directly lit by the tv, but blue scattered light comes in front of it). The light (as opposed to the scattered light) itself isn't that blue in my opinion, else it would change the hue of the blanket and pillow case as well. You're welcome to go ahead with a try on volumetric lights on your side to check things out.

if you walk outside at night, and see a room with only a (CRT)TV on, what color do you see?
In my renderer, there are no volumetric lights possible, I'll have to fake that to achieve that effect.

Well, I did try to align the camera to the original scene in the best of my abilities. True, making pre-alignment with Sketchup might have been better, but it was not within my possibilities (and unless someone else has the Pro version of Sketchup for exporting .obj files, it still isn't). Though I don't know if the camera position can be exported in the process.Interesting. However, here comes another question: for my scene, I put light sources where there could be "physical" light sources... I don't know if putting light sources where there's no actual item that emits light is a desirable course of action...

As for the camera position, here it is far away from the scene, don't know if blender can handle that. I used the walkmesh to position and create the tube. In my scene, there are also two lights (low capacity) at the ceiling of the pipe, in order to light the shelves.

For the 'invisible' lights, that's quite normal to use, and to fake light situation, it used to be used to fake global illuminosity before that came along. In FF there are many fields where this is used. take the NMKIN3 scene for instance....


at the place where you enter this scene ther is a hidden light (there are more in there), check out the original if you like.

For the tube and the lights, look closely at the shadows, also the towls have a shadow which can't originate by the TV.
Since we can use illuminated maps (as the image shown on the TV) that was not possible with the software Squaresoft used, so they faked it with a light in front of the TV.

my current scene looks like this:


Note, the pink cylinder is only used to block the light entering from the back side
 

 

[SpooX]

Just as a note, I uploaded the file as obj in the repo under 'testing files', I don't know if you have access to that.
and the double post her is on purpose, so the notification will be send
 8)

[edit] added 3ds version as well, as the obj version is screwedup when opening in Blender[/edit]

 

[Mayo Master]

Yes please.
yes they are, all connecting from the shelve to the surface of the pipe.
if you walk outside at night, and see a room with only a (CRT)TV on, what color do you see?
In my renderer, there are no volumetric lights possible, I'll have to fake that to achieve that effect.
As for the camera position, here it is far away from the scene, don't know if blender can handle that. I used the walkmesh to position and create the tube. In my scene, there are also two lights (low capacity) at the ceiling of the pipe, in order to light the shelves.
For the 'invisible' lights, that's quite normal to use, and to fake light situation, it used to be used to fake global illuminosity before that came along. In FF there are many fields where this is used. take the NMKIN3 scene for instance....
at the place where you enter this scene ther is a hidden light (there are more in there), check out the original if you like.
For the tube and the lights, look closely at the shadows, also the towls have a shadow which can't originate by the TV.
Since we can use illuminated maps (as the image shown on the TV) that was not possible with the software Squaresoft used, so they faked it with a light in front of the TV.
my current scene looks like this:
Note, the pink cylinder is only used to block the light entering from the back side
 

- I will change the "black cheese" for a ring.
- I will revise the position and orientation of the shelf studs
- Concerning the lights: I also have a third light (which has a "physical" source), which is a light coming from outside the pipe. This light is actually consistent with the shadows you see on the clothes, which are projected by the shelf holding the books. On another note, I didn't know that lights emanating from non-existent object was common practice - yet I am not sure they would be a necessary element for this scene. Then, to revise my lighting tests, I propose to make a "Case study" with different light settings and conditions, and putting everything side by side for people to judge. I'll make small renders (comparable with the size of the original picture) so hopefully it shouldn't take long.
- I'll check the alignment of my camera with the scene (which I did manually), but I don't think I'm far off the angle of the original picture.

Just as a note, I uploaded the file as obj in the repo under 'testing files', I don't know if you have access to that.
and the double post her is on purpose, so the notification will be send
 8)
[edit] added 3ds version as well, as the obj version is screwedup when opening in Blender[/edit]

Not yet, I'll have to ask permission for accessing the repo. When I do, I could share the blender file of my scene if you're interested (I think could export it in .3ds if you wish).

 

[anaho]

@MayoMaster

Metal objects should not cast white specular highlights but be tainted with their diffuse color ( only a little brighter). This is easy and quick to fix in Blender and will take away some of that "plastic" look.
And do at least one inset with control edges  on the right "puck" to fix the shading issues.
And to Spoox: Thanks for the camera locations you gave me the other day !

 

[Mayo Master]

Just as a note, I uploaded the file as obj in the repo under 'testing files', I don't know if you have access to that.
and the double post her is on purpose, so the notification will be send

I got access to repo and checked your file (thanks for sharing). Unfortunately, when importing .3ds into Blender, it looks like the camera position wasn't kept (like it imports the objects, not the camera) - unless I made a noob mistake 
Anyway, one other drawback is that we modelled things at a very different scale (like your objects were 10 times larger), so I doubt the information about your camera position will be of some use to me.
However, your modelling draft incited me to completely revise my scene and fine tune the viewing distance and focal length. Because of this, I had to revise the position of all the items, and I've been also going through a revision of all the meshes. I think that, when I started the scene, I could be satisfied with an approximate position and appearance of the items in the scene, but you guys have raised my self-expectation standards 
I should be able to finish the revisions on object position and meshes by this weekend. Then it will be back to texturing/lighting.

@MayoMaster
Metal objects should not cast white specular highlights but be tainted with their diffuse color ( only a little brighter). This is easy and quick to fix in Blender and will take away some of that "plastic" look.
And do at least one inset with control edges  on the right "puck" to fix the shading issues.

Thanks for the input - looking how you modelled your scenes I could definitely use your advice! - Indeed practically all my items have white specular highlights, I will revise that when I get back to texturing. While revising my meshes, I fixed the shading on the shelf supports (initially with basic flat shading, now with the classic "smooth shading - subsurf - edge crease").

 

[anaho]

Just be aware that the egde-crease modifier most likely wont be exported in case you ever decide to render your scenes in a different render engine outside of Blender.
On the modeling side of things I am course willing to help, but everything seems very fine to me. What could be improved are the two towels. maybe apply (bake )the cloth modifier as it is now, subdivide a couple of times and simply sculpt over them. Should not take too long IMO.
What I did for image aligning was a bit of a pain but proved to work quite well to my surprise once I got it figured out:
1.) Get a copy of 3DSMAX trial and sketchup pro (?) trial
2.) Align scene in Sketchup and export to .3ds ( that should include the camera positions)
3.) Open scene in 3ds
4.) Get the scripts http://www.blender.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17168&sid=3bd6896ffa9be3121ce142f22e941432
I sticked to the Blender 2.52 version, the newer ones never reliably worked for me. Run the 3dsmax script ( it says only 2010 but it worked at least up to 2012). That exports the scene and cam data to a format Blender can read.
5.) Get Blender 2.52 and install the script in the link. This will give you a button under the World or Scene options ( sorry doing this by heart) that says import scene. You select the scene you exported from 3DSMAX and voila you get the cam data in Blender.
6.) Since 2.52 is pretty dated and very unstable I suggest you open your nice and new 2.64 at the same time and paste the camera location and rotation and FOV values from the 2.52 scene to a scene in 2.64. This will give you all you need.
7.) Open up the image of the filed scene in Blender and press Z for wire frame mode. Ensure that the FOV is right as you need to manually tweak it a bit. Rotation and location are always matching though.
8.) I then split the window in two halfs. one the right I stay in wireframe mode to ensure that stuff matches up. On the right is normal 3DView with regular shaded view.

This might sound way more difficult than it is. Once you know what these exporters do it does not take longer than 10 min at best. But really paste the camera values and do not work with the imported camera. I got really weird termination and Z-fighting errors using it, esp. with AO turned on.

 

[anaho]

Oh and by the way: I generally abuse the project from view unwrapping. It is a bad habit but since these renders will only be viewed from one angle the speedup you get from doing that is quite dramatic...

 

[Mayo Master]

Well, rendering in another engine was not in my plans... I am actually unaware of the benefits of another rendering engine (especially if it can't be compatible with Blender's features) - even though it seems to be in what is suggested in the "Midgar remake" thread.
Concerning this particular field screen, I think I got the alignment spot on, after my latest revisions. However, the procedure you suggest was definitely what I was thinking about for further field scenes to model, and it has been pretty much in line with the support provided by SpooX (though I didn't figure about using scripts and that kind of things). I actually wonder if this preliminary work on camera view shouldn't be made systematically (though it's a lot of simple boring work), with saving .3ds files in the repository.

 

[anaho]

I think the only person that can extract the camera data directly from game to 3DSMAX is (still) Spoox.
And personally I also think that the internal renderer of Blender is fine for the style of Final Fantasy VII.

 

[Mayo Master]

Update on my field scene screen...
Since last time:
- I revised the viewing angle - or to be more precise, the distance and focal length. As a result, I had to modify the diameter of the pipe... which resulted in also revising all the items of the scene  :-o
- The revisions of the objects include position, texturing, and in some case, meshing (for instance I remade the leftmost trophy). Concerning texturing: the metallic parts have layers and layers of textures, and in my opinion, I feel like adding more layers to my textures would add nothing.
- I resimulated the clothes (it was vastly demanded apparently) and got a frame where they look a bit more "wavy".
- I revised lighting. I added some small lights around the TV, change the colour of the TV light (blueish), and change the colour of the ceiling light (yellowish).
I must admit: now I feel like I'm turning in circles between lighting tuning and smoke effects. Here are some possibilities:

1- Render without halo nor smoke
2- Render with smoke
3- Render with halo
4- Render with both halo and smoke
Of course, both the intensity of the halo and the smoke are tunable.

Again, here's the original for reference...

Another option, which I have just been suggested, would be to make the smoke with blender, but make the halo by post-processing (Paintshop). I liked the low-res I made, so I decided to go full scale (click for high-res).



Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Covarr]

- I resimulated the clothes (it was vastly demanded apparently) and got a frame where they look a bit more "wavy".

I think the issue with your original simulation is that it was too straight. If clothes is filthy enough (which it probably is, in the slums), it'll keep way more shape than if it's clean. Sometimes, the stiffness can be stronger than gravity, and so manual tweaking might give that effect better than a realistic cloth simulation.

Also, I like option four, but you might wanna try and make the TV's light fade out more gradually; it seems just a bit too sharp, not soft enough.

 

[Mayo Master]

I don't think the matter of the clothes has something to do with realism. I think it is more a matter of our mind associating cloth with the idea of a supple, smooth material, and the "wavy clothes" convey more this idea than "still hanging cloth". Anyway, I preferred to let the physics wave the clothes than do it manually - I'm personally always getting better results that way - maybe because I have more the mind of an engineer than that of an artist 
Concerning the TV light, I could try that. However, I did spend time calibrating the fading off of this light. You see, one of the subtlety (at least for me) in the original picture is that the metal reflects blue near the TV, and yellow near the end of the pipe. So I had to adjust the fade-off of the blue TV light with that of a yellowish light bulb on the ceiling. I fear increasing the distance of the blue light may not be consistent with the somewhat yellowish reflections of the original.

 

[Timu Sumisu]

The lighting in the '5th' or last one you posted is best. I'd make the blanket dirtier sa per the original. Post progress on that, and once thats cleared, this scene will be considered done and approved.

Best to move on to other work than to fiddle with this forever. Good work.

 

[Mayo Master]

Dirtying the blanket by increments...
The first one is my original version, the fourth one was dumped in ashes.



Which one do you like?
It is also possible for me to get "intermediate" dirt levels. Between each steps shown above, an extra layer of dirt was added to the UV map texture, and I can vary the intensity of each. Just let me know. My personal preference: go from picture 2, add a very subtle amount of dirt from 3, and get a very slight overall dirt of 4.

 

[LeonhartGR]

No 4 but why don't you brighten the colors a bit...

 

[Timu Sumisu]

I'd use 4, and pop out the patches a bit from the blanket, just extrude that area to get a little extra relief.