[SPOILERS] Star Wars Episode 7: Ticking All The Wrong Boxes [SPOILERS]

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Watched and like it. End of story for me :D
There is always room for improvement. Not everything in this movie is a 10 imo.

Nonetheless, i will be watching it for a second time tomorrow :)
 
You haven't even watched it...? Perhaps do that before going all out on a rant insulting those who have and think it's a great movie.
Considering the complaints that have come back and the fact me and my cousin criticize the exact same aspects of films (CGI over substance, bad acting, grab for nostalgia, lack of originality, leftist propaganda, plot holes (there are dozens in this film), bad script, fan service)  - the answer to that is no.  And the smart people are the ones who don't go to watch something they are sure they'll hate.  Not hope it will be different and come back disappointed. The only reason my cousin went to watch it is because he was taking his friend's son.

I have read all the spoilers and imho everything about it from its feminist nonsense right through to its absolute mimicry of the originals (in numerous places) is pathetic.  I've seen and read enough material to form an opinion on it.  I didn't buy FF13 or any of the FF7 spin offs for the same reason - that's what reviews are there for.  What is the point of a review site if you don't then go and make a judgement based on them?  I fear some people have completely missed the point of what reviews and word of mouth are about - they are not solely to rant.

When I see things like this:

I'm so sad about this DUMB movie! It could have easily being a success, but unfortunately in the wrong hands everything can spoil. It was the same scenario as with The Hobbit franchise. They had it all, good and loved characters, money, time to make good and smart script, etc... However, they decided to go the modern way, the way of mighty CGI! Who needs brain, when we have CGI? Such a shame!
and this

Wow, I am in utter disbelief. I read multiple good reviews about this being 'back' and was actually optimistic about seeing this.. And we didn't even get an actual movie? What did I even just watch? I really don't even know, a bunch of blasters, a couple of random guys off the street with a lightsaber, a cgi demon leader, a bunch of explosions, and a bunch of flying.

There was no plot..

There was no dialogue..

There was no character development..

There was no explanation of the last 30 years..

Just random random random.

The whole movie went 100 miles per hour, I truthfully have never seen a movie so rushed and fast paced in a long time.

This movie I cannot believe isn't getting torn apart by the fans. I think fanboys are just way too devastated to accept/admit episode 7 was no less disappointing than the prequels and there may never be another true star wars continuance to the original trilogy masterpieces.
and

Have you heard of that concept called 'character development'? Don't expect to see it in this movie, because it isn't there. And neither is 'sense of humour', 'story plot', or 'acceptable acting'. Whoever cast Daisy Ridley as Rey and John Boyega as Finn must have been drunk at the time because they are both horrendous actors. Also, does anyone know what Finn's role was during the entire movie? I don't. The only thing you can expect from this movie is that the characters will express emotions that just don't feel natural in the slightest because not at one point does the script say, "Character is feeling emotion X because of event Y," - no, no, they just go: "Character is feeling emotion X. That's the end of it
It resonates with me.  When I see that repeated on review sites 100x... I skip the film.  :)

I am not telling you that you won't like it (unless you have high standards, like I do - or you are similar in taste), I am saying that I know I won't and that I consider it shit.
 
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It's a bit like Britney Spears or Justin Bieber.  I know that no matter what those two release, I won't like it.  I consider them intellectually bankrupt (thick as turd) and there's no chance I would ever be optimistic based on a number of factors.  The same goes for these cash-in sequels. But there are thousands of people out there who think Bieber is a genius.  What does that tell me?  We have an awful lot of silly people about.  But I am not one of 'em :)
 
I know that no matter what those two release, I won't like it.  I consider them intellectually bankrupt (thick as turd) and there's no chance I would ever be optimistic based on a number of factors.  The same goes for these cash-in sequels.
I can only assume their reaction would be something like:

Woody-Harrelson-Wiping-Tears-Money.gif



No, seriously, who cares?

 :mrgreen:
 
It's not confirmation bias when I can actually count the recent reviews and tell you that a huge number are against this remake (and it is pretty much a remake ;) )  In fact, looking at the recent posted reviews on imdb, it looks like the majority are negative.  Plus, I do read the 10/10 and other reviews also (but the 10/10 ones are mostly just saying "don't believe the haters" lmao) .

What the negative reviews are saying is being repeated thousands of times from people on forums and numerous review sites.  So I highly doubt they're all lying (especially regarding the dumb story and plot holes).  And my cousin certainly isn't.  So, I'd rather not go and watch something I know is a pile of crap (my personal opinion on this type of movie).


Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
 
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I can only assume their reaction would be something like:

Woody-Harrelson-Wiping-Tears-Money.gif
I disagree.  I think they're actually laughing at people who fall for it as they roll around with their money ;)
 
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I disagree.  I think they're actually laughing at people who fall for it as they roll around with their money ;)
Who cares. It's like everything else in life, some will love it, some will find it "ok" and some will hate it.
There is no pleasing everyone, ever. What's the big deal about it?
Oh and i totally missed this:

But there are thousands of people out there who think Bieber is a genius.  What does that tell me?  We have an awful lot of silly people about.  But I am not one of 'em :)
Really?  People are "silly" for having a musical taste different than yours? I'm a HUGE Heavy Metal & Rock fan and cannot stand the mainstream music nowadays but to go as far as saying "We have an awful lot of silly people" based on their musical taste and then claiming you are not one just because that's not your type of music... Sorry but, you're the one being silly.
 
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It is objectively wrong to think he's a brilliant songwriter because he doesn't even write most of his own music. He gets it all from the studio, and just performs it.

He actually is a remarkably talented singer, and I think it's a shame he wastes it on the music he sings.

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It is objectively wrong to think he's a brilliant songwriter because he doesn't even write most of his own music. He gets it all from the studio, and just performs it.

He actually is a remarkably talented singer, and I think it's a shame he wastes it on the music he sings.

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True, but that does not give anyone the right to call his fans "silly" just for... well, being his fans.  Or being fans of any other artist for that matter.
 
Well, I disagree, Ric.  "Really." People who like atrocious music are akin to those who think random smatterings of paint on walls is talented or "art".  They try to come up with some pseudo-intellectual argument also.  But the truth is it just sucks and so do they. There is a reason why some songs and artists survive the test of time, and others do not.  Bieber will be forgotten in years to come.  How many people still listen to the Spice Girls compared to say, Led Zeppelin?

I'd wager you that there is a direct correlation between intelligence and so-called taste. Not a perfect straight line correlation - but there nonetheless. In fact, I know there is.  Almost every single person I've met who is as dumb as a brick is either into modern pop ('90s onwards, I'm talking about), rap, or gangsta hip hop. None of them enjoy classical music. Very few enjoy older bands. It's no coincidence. Clearly, there are exceptions - but that's not the argument here.

Also, a lot of these people are conformists who "enjoy" an "artist" because of the image.  I had a deaf friend who was "in to" Tupac.  When I noted that he was deaf, so how could he like the music, he gave me a lousy excuse that he could still feel the beat.  It was nothing to do with "the beat" and everything to do with the gangster image (himself a wannabe gangster at the time).

But you know what - this argument doesn't lead anywhere except OUTRAGE and counter arguments I've heard 100 times before and dismissed.  But it's my opinion and, well, that's that.  If that makes me an ass or arrogant or any other label you wish to use - cool. I look forward to other people's reviews regarding this film, good or bad.  Metacritic is quite informative at the moment also.
 
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Well, I disagree, Ric.  "Really." People who like atrocious music are akin to those who think random smatterings of paint on walls is talented or "art".  They try to come up with some pseudo-intellectual argument also.  But the truth is it just sucks and so do they.
Again, atrocious to you does not mean atrocious to other people. You obviously have an issue with anything that doesn't suit your own personal taste or beliefs so whatever, why do i even bother.

But it's my opinion and, well, that's that.  If that makes me an ass or arrogant or any other label you wish to use - cool
And you're 100% entitled to it. However you could just either try to express it in a not-so-negative way or simply not express it all because in the end of the day, people who enjoyed the movie will not care about your opinion, just like people who listen to Justin Bieber will not care about your opinion.
How about respecting the fact that people are entitled to enjoy whatever it is that they enjoy? Be it music, movies, or videogames regardless if you think they are good or not?
Your opinions don't make you an ass or even arrogant, the way you express them shows a complete lack of respect towards anyone who might have different views than you though.

But the truth is it just sucks and so do they.
With that being said, so do you.
 
ok, didn't read anything to avoid getting spoiled... Gonna see it within a week probably.

My predictions, without saying if it's good or bad:

Play on nostalgia. Convoluted story. Good visual effects (duh!). Semi-intresting characters. Luke is  heavily involved with the "twist". New threat (kinda obvious) that rebells defeats against odds.

These are kinda no-brainers, but still, am I right or am i right?
 
ok, didn't read anything to avoid getting spoiled... Gonna see it within a week probably.

My predictions, without saying if it's good or bad:

Play on nostalgia. Convoluted story. Good visual effects (duh!). Semi-intresting characters. Luke is  heavily involved with the "twist". New threat (kinda obvious) that rebells defeats against odds.

These are kinda no-brainers, but still, am I right or am i right?
You're not going to believe how much worse it actually is.  But plot hole bonanza and rehash of Episode IV would be close. Oh, and throw in some politically correct rubbish too.  Mix it in.  I'd like to say that "I am not sure" or "I didn't think they'd do that" but from everything I am reading and hearing, they've done pretty much everything I expected... except one thing.  And that thing is so so CRAP and insulting.  But I will wait until you've seen it and see what your opinion is.
 
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Politically correct and Feminist positive? Not really, Gwendoline Christie's Captain Phasma who was claimed to be a strong female character, ends up having 6 lines, 3 to 4 minutes of screen time and being about as much use as a chocolate fire-guard in hell on a very hot day, the troopers she commands have more personality.
 
Okay, having just seen it, I feel qualified to weigh in. I had avoided saying too much in this thread before seeing it, because I like my opinions to be informed. I won't get too specific, but I'm still going to throw a SPOILER WARNING on this post.


First off, the problems: There are indeed serious plot holes. It's clear they've tried too hard to stick too close to the plot of A New Hope, and in many cases fallen short because of it. The action sequences are too bright and flashy, making it often difficult to follow what's going on. Too much of this movie is spent with characters running, and the movie as a whole is paced too fast. The fanservice is there, and in some cases it works (Han Solo) and in some cases it doesn't (C-3PO).

But despite all that, I still liked the movie. For all it does wrong, it also does a lot right:

1. The characters are interesting and well developed, and the dialogue is good. One of the biggest problems I had with the prequel trilogy is that there was no internal conflict for any of the characters; everyone was either good or evil. The whole crux of the prequel trilogy was that Anakin was conflicted between the light side and the dark side, but we never really saw that conflict, since he was pretty much all the way dark side from the start. The Force Awakens has no such problem. Nearly every character has some sort of internal conflict they're struggling with, some sort of emotional or character-driven obstacle to overcome, and these things are all believably done and shown in their actions instead of explained through dialogue.

2. There was no unnecessary division between comic characters and serious characters. The movie had its funny moments, and it had its tense moments, and it had its character drama, and those were all done with the same people. No "serious Obi-Wan, slapstick Jar Jar" nonsense. This makes all the characters more relatable.

3. The character relationships were complex, and grew as they got to know each other, based on their actions. Relationships grew naturally, with characters feeling one way about each other at the beginning of the film, another way at the and, and a believable, realistic journey between the two.

4. Some of the more immediately obvious things that seem like fanservice for its own sake, like Kylo Ren (the Darth Vader looking guy in the mask) are done like that for the sake of subverting them. His Vader-style look is a deliberate from of misdirection, and used to good effect in the story. I don't wanna get too specific, but he really is not Vader at all.

5. There is considerably less CGI than in the prequel films, and what CGI is there is well done. The film is stuffed to the brim with practical effects, such as many aliens being obviously people in costumes, BB-8 (the droid) being entirely non-CGI, etc. The film could definitely have been done with less CGI still, but it's not obscenely overindulgent with it like the prequels were.

All in all, it's certainly not as good as the originals, but also not guilty of most of the sins of the prequels. It's obvious they attempted to make something good and not a lazy cash-in. The end result is something that is deeply flawed and derivative from a plot perspective, but has heart. I attribute this almost entirely to the fact that the dialogue and characters were good. Those are always what makes or breaks a movie, and this one got that right. If you can only see plot and not characters, you'll hate it, but if you can see the whole thing for what it is, it's pretty decent.

CGI over substance
It has both.

bad acting
The acting is mostly pretty good. The only person I thought was not was Carrie Fisher, which is strange because she was good in the originals.

lack of originality
Intentionally subverted, which should be obvious to anyone who saw and understood the film

leftist propaganda
Not remotely. I was keeping an eye out for this throughout the entire movie, and could not find a hint of it. Unless you're suggesting that simply having the lead be female is propaganda, which is utterly ridiculous.

plot holes (there are dozens in this film)
I can't argue with this. The plot was the weakest part of this film.

bad script
I disagree with this more than anything else in your post, for the reasons I stated above. Good characters, good inter-character dynamics, and good dialogue. These are the hallmarks of a good script.

fan service
Intentionally subverted, which should be obvious to anyone who saw and understood the film.


I will reiterate this, because it needs reiterating. I do not think this is a perfect film. I think it's ridiculous that anyone gave it 10/10. But as I don't see things in extremes, I also don't think "not perfect" is the same as "terrible." I'd give it a solid 7/10. There is room for improvement, but it was good enough that I enjoyed it.
 
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I mean casting a black person simply because it ticks a box, and having a female protagonist who is wonder woman simply to show us how "equal" (or in this case, better)  women are to men.  From what I hear, she fixes Han Solo's ship despite him knowing it back to front (and her knowing nothing) and also kicks the arse of someone experienced in the Force with little or no training whatsoever. It's been commended by a lot of critics for its "feminist" touch.  I call casting people because of gender or colour blatant progressive liberal agenda (Same thing happened with Deep Space Nine and Voyager).  Having a woman kicking arse and fixing things with no build up at all is leftism at its worst in films. I am more than happy with a true strong female protagonist done correctly (Ripley from Alien and Aliens, or the resistance leader on Mars in Babylon 5. In fact - Ivanova in B5 too), but not this sort of garbage (Kira in Deep Space Nine).  It reminds me of all modern day soaps - whenever men and women compete at something, women always win.  It's become a tired cliche and films like this deliberately peddle it.  And, of course, they want to tick a box and appeal to women for the sheer sake of it.  Never mind if the situation is absurd or the believability is zero.
 
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I mean casting a black person simply because it ticks a box
The black person wasn't to tick a box. He was right for the role. Having seen it, I wouldn't cast anyone else. Did you say the same about Lando? Do you say the same whenever a black person is cast in anything? He was a good actor, and it's downright insulting to J.J. Abrams to assume he was cast just for that (and also doesn't make sense, considering Abrams showed with the casting of Into Darkness that he doesn't give a rip about race when casting.

and having a female protagonist who is wonder woman simply to show us how "equal" (or in this case, better)  women are to men.
I never got the impression that's why they did that. They had a female protagonist because she and the black guy have a Han/Leia dynamic. Otherwise it would've been two guys, and if they tried to do that there'd be accusations of them doing it just to show a gay couple.

From what I hear, she fixes Han Solo's ship despite him knowing it back to front (and her knowing nothing)
This is not remotely the case. mild spoilers. The ship had been stolen from Han and left on her home world for quite some time. It is heavily implied that she'd had a chance to take a look at it over the years, and she makes two repairs throughout the film. The first before he even appears, and the second is to some modifications that were added years after the ship was stolen from him and he wouldn't have had any way of knowing about. It's not remotely suggested that she's better with ships than him, or even better with this ship, just that she was in the right place at the right time and he wasn't.

and also kicks the arse of someone experienced in the Force with little or no training whatsoever.
This is the only one of these that is a real problem, and I will not argue with it. But even so, I have every reason to believe it would've been exactly the same problem with a male lead, because it was rooted in the film's pacing problems.

Your other complaints come across as totally uninformed, and just make it obvious you haven't seen the film and are speaking on hearsay. It is exceedingly evident to me, who actually saw the film, that the vast majority of your opinions on it are based on half-truths and misinformation. Look, if you don't wanna see it, don't see it. You were absolutely right to say earlier in the thread that it would be dumb to see a movie you think you won't like. But if you don't see it, stop complaining about it, because most of your complaints are based on a heavily skewed version of the film that is totally different from the movie they actually made. Frankly, you come across like you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
 
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