A Different FF7 story view...or the same one..(spoilers)

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A Different Look at FF7's Story  

by Bart  

Okay, this is my first editorial, so bear with me while I do the obligatotry introduction. My name is Bart, and I love RPGs. I am not an old-school or a new-school gamer, I just like to play the games. Anyway, I wrote this because I've seen a lot of people talk about the story of Final Fantasy VII and very few, if any of them, seem to realize what I'm about to point out. So, without further ado, here's the editorial:

Lets start off with a little quiz here, to refresh your memory in case you haven't played the game in a while:

1) When is the first time, outside of the flashback in Kalm, that you see Sephiroth in the game?

2) Who did Cloud give the Black Materia to at the Temple of the Ancients?

3) Were you upset when Sephiroth killed Aeris?

Now, I know you think these are very simple questions, and here are the answers most people probably gave. 1) The boat from Junon to Costa del Sol. 2) Sephiroth, and 3) yes. However, every single one of those answers is wrong. Sephiroth was not on the boat, or at the Temple, and he did not kill Aeris.

But wait, you say: I remember all of those things happening. And yes, you saw them, but you probably did not think about them enough. The real answer to number 1 is the North Crater, just before the Weapons are released. Prior to that scene, it is not Sephiroth you see, but Jenova. How many of you remember this quote, "The ability to change one's looks, voice, and words, is the power of Jenova." It is given by "Sephiroth" in the Crater, while Cloud is being shown his "true" past.

Once you realize that it is Jenova you are chasing everywhere on Discs 1 and 2, a lot of things in the game begin to make more sense. Going back to answer 1 above, do you remember how Sephiroth didn't remember who Cloud was in that scene? That's because it was Jenova there, and she had to reach into Sephiroth's memory to see who this person was. When you meet again in Nibelheim, she knows who you are. Jenova is also responsible for the massacre at the Shinra Building, the killing of the Midgar Zolom, and many other acts attributed to Sephiroth in the first half of the game.

So, does this mean Sephiroth is blameless in everything that happens? No, it does not. He chose to destroy Nibelheim, he chose (or agreed with Jenova) to try to absorb the Lifestream. It was Sephiroth who summoned Meteor. But he was killed in Nibelheim, by Cloud. It was only his great will that kept him from joining the Lifestream. Jenova was merely using his form to travel around because she knew it was powerful and would have a great psychological impact on people she met.

edit----i dunno if u guys saw this editorial already...but i jus got to find it quite by chance while looking for an FF7 story i could read to refreshen my memories about the actual storyline of the game (4 year absence from it)...it makes a lot of sense...storywise and it's something i never even thought of before i read the article ( i know...i know...a bit daft..yeah?)

thanks.
 
Ok, interesting. Definately gives me a new scope on my theory. However, I have one little problem. During the nibelheim incident, Sephiroth severs the head of Jenova and carries it off. When Cloud throws him into the lifestream, Sephiroth manages to hold onto the head. I don't think Cloud killed Sephiroth during the nibelheim incident; it just doesn't look like he does. Later, I'm assuming that the headless body of Jenova is moved to Midgar. They probably froze the body there to keep it preserved for future jenova experiments. Once Jenova escapes midgar, it seems that it would take one hell of alot of energy to get moving after being frozen, and even harder to do anything without a head. Just a thought. I still like this theory, mostly because it is different from the others I hear  :P

However, my theory involves a perfect clone of sephiroth with some missing memories (he might not remember cloud on the ship until he realizes that cloud has jenova cells) wandering around carrying the corpse of Jenova. I'd assume that the little "chunks" or "seeds" that the clone would drop were pieces of the original Jenova body; they would then transform into the strange-looking Jenova bosses that the player would fight throughout the game. Then, you might ask how the clone leviatates and does all of those nifty twisty moves? Think back to when you first see Vincent, or else see Vincent at any point in the game. He can leviatate. When you open his coffin, he does a double backflip in mid-air. Maybe Hojo puts a test run of some strange anti-grav hormones into Vincent; the same hormones are then used later in his kick-ass Sephiroth clone. I dunno, I think it's possible.

I feel that my theory, as much as that one, have their strong and shaky areas. At one point you say "hey, that makes sense", but then you look at another aspect and it just doesn't seem to work out.

Cool, and welcome to the forums  8)
 
Hmm I've known the party was chaseing Jenova thoughout the game for ages. They actually tell you ingame this is true when the party retrieves the Black Materia after slaying Jenova in the North Crator.

Going back to answer 1 above, do you remember how Sephiroth didn't remember who Cloud was in that scene? That's because it was Jenova there, and she had to reach into Sephiroth's memory to see who this person was.
Click to expand...

Hmm thats an intresting point. But whats a point better looking at is who is in controll thoghout the? Jenova or Sephiroth? I'd say Sephiroth since he was the last man smileing sort of thing.
Yeah the levitation thing is weird. Cloud does it to in Disk 2 remember. Vincent dosent "exacly" (does he? I dont remember) do it. I remember the double backflip out the coffin (yay), but I dont remember him flying apart from that. Then again... "The ability to change one's looks, voice, and words, is the power of Jenova.". Hmm? Vincents limit break? Vincent might have had some form of Jenova cells inplanted into him as well when Hojo experimented on him. The levitation must simply be an ability of Jenova.
And what of the flashes? I think someone explained once that white flash = Jenova red = Sephiroth. Any one remember about this? Have I got it round the wrong way?

Well thats all I can think of bringing to the table right now...
 
It was me....but either Square forgot midway which was which, or the flashes just represent different kinds of pain. I can't remember where the two different flashes happen, but I do remember they weren't consistant. All I can say right now is that they have to do with Jenova's abilities of recalling false and half-truth memories from it's host, or people around the host.

And Sephiroth wasn't the only one that wasn't really Sephiroth. Cloud wasn't Cloud. I could never completely thread out the Cloning thing in FF7, there is always a knot left in the string, when I think I've come with a solution

You say you found it strange the Sephiroth didn't reconize Cloud? Did you forget that Sephiroth never meet Cloud? Sephiroth's partner wasn't Cloud, it was Zack. Zack fought along side of Sephiroth, not Cloud. Cloud was a regular Shinra guard, who was very far from Sephiroth's thoughts.

Of course, the last person's face that the real Sephiroth saw was Cloud's, I guess that could hold some debatible truth.

So, let's take this a step further. In Cloud's false memories, Cloud first confronts Sephiroth in Jenova's Sanctrum, then flies out the door. In his true memories, we see Cloud kneeling beside Tifa and Zack flying out of the door. Why is it that Cloud can remember the conversation and images within the Jenova Sanctrum, if he was outside that door, with Tifa (where all those pods are at).

This is also true before the incident....when Cloud was protecting Tifa during the Journey to the Mako plant, And Sephiroth wouldn't let Tifa inside the Mako Factory. Why is it that Cloud remembers the Tantrum that Sephiroth had when he put two and two together, and that thing came out of the pod. The real Cloud was outside protecting Tifa.....

I'm guessing that Jenova is a living virus, exactly like that creature in the movie, "The Thing", you know....the movie with Kirt Russle.....it's now a game....I'm sure you all know the movie I speak of. But Jenova has these special ability, of changing conscience.....and reading minds......maybe even keeping a part of her host's true conscience in tact....I don't know. My thoughts are not very focused, right now. I'm thinking, a cross....a cross between the thing, the gual from SG1 and the borg from Star Trek. And everytime we see a flash, it's Jenova finding a false memory, or a made-up answer.

The only thing that I can truly iron out is that, if Cloud never scanned Tifa in the very begginning of the Story, (not the game). Cloud would have never been Cloud (in conflict with the Evil Jenova influence...borg style), and the story of FF7 wouldn't have never happened. If that gives any consolation or adds to the magical story of FF7.
 
I got something else from that game. I think that the original Cloud, born in Nibelheim, was the same cloud throughout the game. Why?

After Sephiroth is thrown into the lifestream, and missing(assumed dead), Cloud collapses, probably because of the amount of blood he was losing. Tifa, Cloud, and Zack's lifeless bodies are found in the Mako reactor. Some Shinra scientists take the bodies, still alive, back to the mansion in
Nibelheim. They stitch up Tifa's slight flesh wound, and have her sent to Midgar, sector 7. Zack and Cloud, however, get a worse fate. Their bodies are used for experiments with Jenova cells. After the testing is over, which took several years (I'm assuming), their bodies are suspended in a bright green liquid, probably Mako. Later in the game, you can visit the Nibelheim mansion for clues. The books say it all, and a sequence also plays when you go there on disc 3.

The sequence shows Zack and Cloud escaping the underground lab. Cloud is barely able to move, so Zack has to carry him around. Finally, the two young men hitch a ride to Midgar, and decide what to do. Zack, being the only one able to speak, says to Cloud that they are going to be mercenaries. At the end of the sequence, it shows Zack carrying Cloud up a hill. A gunshot is heard, and Zack is hit in the arm with the bullet (I think, at least. Square did a bad job on the field sequences). Zack pulls out his sword and investigates. Zack tries to defend himself and Cloud alone against Shinra soldiers, but loses. He is shot to the ground, then shot repeatedly afterwards. The Shinra soldiers leave Cloud to die, because he was already lying on the ground, near-unconscious. After they leave, Cloud stands up and limps over to Zack's lifeless body. He picks up Zack's sword, and runs to Midgar. Camera pans upward, and it begins to rain.

Cloud is found later in Sector 7, Shinra, passed out. Tifa finds him, and assumes that he is Cloud(and she was right!). Within time, Cloud regained voluntary motion, and lived partially-convinced that he was Cloud, born in Nibelheim. He seeked the truth of this throughout the entire game, however.

The lab reports in Nibelheim say that Zack and Cloud were affected by the Jenova cells differently. I have a screenshot from one of the reports here. Zack was unaffected, but Cloud fell into what seemed a coma. The amount of Mako he was exposed to, and the Jenova cells, did not do his body any good. This is probably the reason for his memories being screwed up. However, his most important memories, the ones he was strongly emotionally attached to, remained. On of them was his hatred for Sephiroth. Some fragments of memories remained, but they were finally recovered once Tifa took a trip through his mind. Since it WAS about five years after the nibelheim incident when that Cloud arrived in sector 7, it makes sense for Tifa to somewhat not remember Cloud. Throughout the game, she was trying to tell Cloud that he wasn't at Nibelheim 5 years previous, but she could not find the words to tell him, and she also didn't remember what exactly happened at Nibelheim until much later.

Oh, about the flashes. I was assuming that they were messages from Jenova talking to Cloud. Some of those flashes, like the first white ones at the beginning of the game (when you stay at Aeris' fake-mom's house) were the deep memories of Cloud being remembered by the "inner-cloud", which is basically the little kid version of him. That little kid version of cloud was also seen during the part where cloud gives sephiroth the black materia; he is the guy you can move around to direct Cloud away from Sephiroth. He was also in the "Cloud's Mind" sequence. However, the red flashes, I think are messages from Jenova/Sephiroth. The first one that shows up in the game includes someone saying: "Watch out! This is more than a reactor!". I dunno, maybe that was said when Sephiroth and everyone visited the reactor in Nibelheim.
 
I take the "Watch Out!" Part as Being Zack. Yes, Zack is still alive. I have -very- good reason to believe he's the sick guy in the tube at Midgar. Why? Because you encounter a Sick guy who looks -exactly like- the one in the tube at Rocket City. He's stuck in the bathroom at the inn, I think. Therefore he's trying to run around helping the team out, following them, forcefully using the Jenova inside of him as some sort of compass. Remember, Cloud absorbed a good bit of Zack during thier whole "experience", so it's reasonable to assume either he's telepathically communicating with Cloud, or that it's the part of Zack inside his mind that's talking to him.
 
Ok, if Zack is the dude in the tube in Sector 5, Then I'll assume that he is "2" in Hojo's freak-list of Jenova experimentees. Hmm, if the Zack has a "2", who is the "1" that Dio talks about when the party visits Gold Saucer for the first time. I've talked to other people about the guy with the "1" tatoo, and all I've really heard is that the "1" would be Zack. Then, why was "1" looking for the black materia?

Who knows? There are plenty of people with spiked hair in FF7, but I wouldn't be surprised if Zack was helping them out. However, he did get shot a TONS at the "Zack&Cloud escape" sequence. I'm talking about a clip of bullets.

That one guy who is sick in Rocket Town doesn't really seem like Zack to me. I couldn't imagine a strong fellow like him to have diarrhea throughout all of FF7.
 
I thought the guy with the "1" tattoo was Sephiroth, or the Jenova-Sephiroth clone thing.  
Sephiroth wanted to get the black materia, so you ended up following his trail around the Gold Saucer and stuff, and everytone mentions "the guy with the black cape" or "the guy with the Number 1 tattoo", before giving you the direction which he went in.
 
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. The "1" guy is the 100% sephiroth clone, as I see it. However, most people I talk this about reject the idea. I think I know why.

[EDIT] wrong..there was no identical sephiroth clone.
 
umm . . . Sepiroth's tattoo was on his arm . . . unless Hojo had some kind of . . . thing . . . for Cloud, I don't see why his wouldn't have been in the same place . . .

I think the reason Cloud DOESN'T have a tattoo is because Hojo thought he failed with Cloud.  Remember Cloud WAS barely conscious when he and Zack escaped.

As far as how Cloud knows what Zack saw in the reactor . . . Zack was a member of SOLDIER.  All members of SOLDIER had been injected with Jenova cells.  Jenova experienced what Zack did, and used that to twist Cloud's memory.

I kind of think the flashes go something like this:  When there's a white flash, it's right before a Jenova influenced memory in Cloud's mind, almost like it symbolizes Jenova generating the memory inside of Cloud.  The red seems to happen right before Jenova actually takes control over Cloud, or tells him something in his mind . . . sometimes that "inner Cloud" talks to him, too.  I can't remember what happens then . . . I kind of remember a black screen right after Cloud falls off the bridge in Midgar, right before he meets Aeris, where the "inner Cloud" is talking to him, something about "Back then you only scraped your knees" or something.
 
Actually, the person who did visit Gold Saucer with the "1" tatoo, whether it is Sephiroth or not, had it on his hand.

But yeah, Cloud probably didn't get a number because he was a failure. I also think that SOLDIER members only got Mako radiation, but I don't think they put in Jenova cells. The guys that were inside the mako reactor of Nibelheim, however, apparently had Jenova cells. At least that's what I recall. I don't remember them saying SOLDIER members having Jenova injected. Can someone please prove me wrong with this with a screenshot?
 
I'm too lazy to do so, but I know Cloud said so when he told everyone the whole story on the Highwind.


Anyway, If Zack isn't the sick guy, then who is? He's obviously following them around...
 
I didn't find it that obvious that Zack was following them around. The guy probably got cut in half by all of the bullets that were pumped into him when he was killed. I never saw any extra objects(Zack) on the screen stalking Cloud during the adventure. I feel that Cloud essentially became Zack, in hopes of being someone he couldn't. Maybe Zack was "with them" in their minds, but I think that the only Zack hanging around was the unconscious lie that Cloud was living.
 
I am going to have to bring up Lucrecia, if you remember when you first see her with Vincent.

Vincent: I thought you were dead!

Lucrecia: (Something about being hard to kill when infused with Jenova's cells)
 
Ok, I'm making a correction. I re-did the "Finding Cloud" Sequence and you are correct. SOLDIER members do get Jenova cells. The reason why Cloud and the other Sephiroth-clones ended up being able to be possessed by Jenova is because they were weak. Apparently, only the ones who were in SOLDIER who got Jenova injections were the ones able to resist possession.

So, with that said, I'd assume this. If Zack survived being shot, then the real Sephiroth is still alive. Therefore, Jenova candidates are more resistant to physical harm. And since it was made quite clear that the real Sephiroth was still around, with his appearance in the North Crater(right before Meteor is summoned), then maybe Zack was hanging around after all. I never saw him, or even saw many clues of him, so I can't say whether he was or wasn't.

Also, during the "Finding Cloud" sequence happens, Cloud says that Hojo was in fact trying to clone Sephiroth. Maybe one of the experiments got successful, and that is what the party chases throughout the game. I wouldn't be surprised if "1" was Zack; Jenova had no effect on him, so maybe he was the 1st "succesful" clone. Cloud didn't get a number because he failed. Later on, I bet Hojo made some experiments that are higher than "13", as opposed to Red XIII. What if the ones after 13 were a success to the point where one is identical to Sephiroth?

To Sfx: I forgot she said that. Looks like I'll be going back! I've always thought it was her spirit wandering around in that cave. She always seemed to be disappearing a little too fast...

Ah yes, another thing. I just finished Disc 2 again, and got inspired with some interesting inferences. When you get to the top of the mako cannon, you find Hojo messing around. He then sees you, and starts talking about how he is "helping his son". Apparently, he is aiding Sephiroth by sending mako over to the north crater. While in battle, I noticed some interesting similarities between Hojo and Sephiroth.

1st part of the battle: Hojo in his still-human form. He calls upon some creepy monsters (probably Jenova experiments) to aid him in battle. After you damage the human Hojo enough, he says something about "if the mako energy has taken effect yet". He transforms.

2nd part of the battle: He turns into a freakish thing with two tentacle-like limbs. The center of his body has an ellongated head, and a red orb-like organ near his abdomen. While looking at the red thing, I thought about the 1st sephiroth battle. Sephiroth has a yellow orb in the middle of his body. Awfully similar if you ask me. You slay the ugly beast, and another monster pops out.

3rd part of the battle: He turns into a leviatating thing that looks like one of those floating monsters from Quake1. This one really doesn't look similar to anything, but the way it leviatates reminds me of the "One winged angel" form of Sephiroth. Okay, it's not an exactly 100% concrete, but you've got to admit the forms are a bit similar.

Now, it seems to me that the amount of Mako energy that Hojo sent to Sephiroth allowed him to transform into the beast(s) that you fight at the end of the game. Why was Jenova all puffed up in a sphere like she was when you fight her at the end of the game? This is what I think:

As far as I know, the only part of Jenova that stayed near the real Sephiroth was the head. It probably mutated into what it could because of the Mako energy.

Any objections? Or else I'm making an ass out of myself.. :wink:
 
Yup, you hit it right on the head of the Nail, Bart. That theory has to be right. I always thought that it was some other being carrying around parts of Jenova. but after re-playing parts where there is crucial evidence, I am convinced. Hojo's little Jenova Reuinion Theory proves it all. The real sephiroth cuts off the head of Jenova during the Nibelheim incident. He takes it with him when Cloud throws him into the lifestream. After this, Hojo is in despair because he cannot find his (son) ultimate experiment, Sephiroth. So, he devises a plan. By taking cells of Jenova and placing them into "weak" people that cannot handle Jenova, they will eventually lead Hojo back to the real Sephiroth. The Jenova body desires to be whole again.

So, five years pass after the Nibelheim incident. Zack and Cloud escape the lab in Nibelheim. During this, Zack tells Cloud everything that he missed. Things like his experiences with Sephiroth, and conversations that Cloud wasn't present during. That's how Cloud remembered what they said when he wasn't there. Although the limp body of Cloud seemed helpess and unconsciouss, he was listening. Eventually, the two get to Midgar. Zack is killed. Cloud finally regains consciousness to find Zack lying on the ground.

Cloud arrives at Midgar, and wakes up and sees Tifa. He says her name first, so I am convinced that he is the real Cloud. If he was "created" piece by piece, he would not have known Tifa's name before she talked to him. Eventually, Cloud meets up with a girl, Aeris, who is captured by the Shinra because she is an ancient. Cloud and his group go into the Shinra building and get captured while attempting to escape.

*This part is a theory*
Hojo proposes to Rufus to get something Rufus has longed for forever. Hojo plans to release Jenova onto Rufus's father, and makes it seem like it is all Sephiroth's fault. Rufus then becomes president. Since Hojo knows that Rufus is easily persuaded by Hojo's words, this is more beneficial to Hojo than Rufus knows.

*Back to what has 100% evidence*

Hojo releases all of his creatures (and headless Jenova), and signs his resignation letter. He gets the hell outta there. Jenova crawls out of her cell and drags herself up the stairs to president Shinra's office. She shapeshifts into Sephiroth just for show, and kills him with a "masamune". Meanwhile, with word of his father's death, Rufus heads over to the Shinra building to retieve his presidency. Rufus proposes to ally with Cloud, but Cloud refuses. So, Cloud and his group escape Midgar. Meanwhile, the headless body of Jenova goes ahead of Cloud and his group, beckoning him to follow...

And throughout the game the group IS in fact chasing Jenova. I am officially renouncing my 100% clone of Sephiroth theory, because that is not what Square meant by Sephiroth-clones. When the player reaches North Crater, the one they are chasing (Jenova in the form of Sephiroth) says that "This body is losing its usefulness". After that, the group fights Jenova DEATH, and retrieves the black materia. The headless Jenova harasses Cloud and his group for one last time about Cloud not being who he is. Why is this?

Jenova doesn't recognize the Cloud who threw Sephiroth into the lifestream as a person who was born. Cloud was pretty much "reborn" when Jenova was injected into him. Although Cloud's memories were muddled, and he hosted Jenova cells, he was still the same Cloud born in Nibelheim. Jenova thinks that Cloud is only five years old because the non-jenova-hosting Cloud was dead to her. I hope that makes sense..

After that, Cloud, Tifa, and another person appear in the same room where Scarlet, Hojo, and Rufus are. Jenova, disguised as Tifa, tells the one who holds the black materia to bring it to Cloud. Once that happens, Cloud becomes controlled by Jenova. He gives the real Sephiroth the black materia, and it all goes downhill from there.

Now, the real sephiroth obviously goes far down into the North Crater. However, I don't know what happens to the headless form of Jenova. Either she dies in the explosion, gets stepped on by one of the weapons, merges power with real-Sephiroth, or else goes into the North Crater to hang out with the real Sephiroth. I'm down with either one, but I like the one where she gets stepped on by Diamond weapon  :D

If you want to re-live most of the evidence I just spewed, I have a savegame that is saved right before the sequence where the real photograph (Zack, Tifa, Sephiroth) is shown in the illusion-nibelheim. PM me if you're interested.

I think I summed it up pretty well. Thanks Bart, you gave me a real insight!
 
I think that Jenova heads down with Sephiroth.
If you remeber, Bizarro Sephiroth and the One Winged anger are rock had compared to Sephiroth's final form (the one on one). What I'm thinking is that the first two forms are the Jenova augmted versions of Sephirith, and the final form is Sephiroth after Jenova is defeated.
 
Jenova is defeated? I dunno about that, it's a part of Cloud and Shinra's 1st rank soldiers (maybe more)!!!  Moreover, if they make FFVII-2 (meet Jenova's generations - FFVII Episode II Attack of the Jenovas ) lol
 
Jenova Synthesis, the monster you fight right before Bizzarro, is the headless Jenova.
 
Jenova is defeated? I dunno about that, it's a part of Cloud, Tifa and Shinra's 1st rank soldiers...
Click to expand...

Tifa has jenova cells? Did I miss something?

Also, I think they somewhat hinted that cloud was freed from jenova at the end of the game. green and red energy (red enegry was released from sephiroth when he exploded) enters cloud, but only green comes out. I wonder what that means.

Ok, if you fight headless jenova before bizzaro sephiroth, I'm assuming that Sephiroth merged with the head of jenova. This would make Bizzaro Sephiroth and One-Winged Asshole sephiroth.

But still, do you notice the similarities in the mutation processes of both Hojo and final Sephiroth? Please say something (*wink wink* say yes).
 
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