Can it be? Yes! I hath upgraded my system!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Goku7
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Goku7

Guest
As most of you already know, I was WAAAY overdue for any sort of video card upgrade, considering up until recently I had a P4 1.5Ghz coupled with a 3Dfx Voodoo3 2000 PCI card.

What do I have now, you ask?  Take a wild guess.  :P

It's a V5 5500 AGP, which I snagged off ebay for approximately $52 (U.S. currency).

*notices that everyone in the room is giving him the teenage "eye roll"*

Yes, I'm aware it's no match for anything past the GF2Ultra era, and by no means am I claiming that it CAN compare to, say, the DX9 compliant cards of today....But I still wanted to get one of these v5's ever since I found out 3Dfx got bought out and that stores in my area just about dropped their supply of them over a cliff or something in the wake of 3Dfx's demise.

And, I still do a fair amount of PSX emulation, in addition to playing UT and a few other glide games, but I wanted to get past the rather annoying low-res texture limitation the V3 imposed on the D3D and OpenGL games I played with it, so the V5 was kinda the natural choice for me....haven't tested FF7 or FF8's performance with it yet, mainly because I've been busy testing all my other games first, mainly the ones that are capable of using high-res/compressed textures, since my V3 was incapable of doing S3TC textures as well.

Although, I can't help but feel bad for the position my sound card is in, now.  You see, the V5 5500 is a dual-chip configuration, and uses two fans to keep 'em cool....and unfortunately, they're blowing the hot air right onto my sound card, I think.  But hey, I freed up a PCI slot, so that's gotta count for something! :P
 
How much better does it run. In %
I was thinking about getting one, because I too have a voodoo3 2000....
 
How much better does it run. In %
I was thinking about getting one, because I too have a voodoo3 2000....
Click to expand...

Unless you are like Goku and you like messing around and tweaking your drivers and such to get the best quality dont get one.. I totally feel that the voodoo 5s are great if you can use them for something.. but with the games of the future coming around it would be easier to go mainstream and just buy ATI or Nvidia..
 
Caddberry, the main reason I like option tweaking, is because it's the closest you can get to taking the card apart and putting it back together again in order to see how it works, without actually doing that or looking at the driver source code.

3Dfx added an insane amount of tweakable options that can be accessed via reg tweaks, and with a little bit of registry know-how, it's possible make those options show up in the main "3Dfx Tools" program.

I'd post a list of them, but the problem is that then this post would be to long...probably because the guy who wrote that list combined all known possible registry tweaks for all Voodoo cards, since a LOT of them are Voodoo2 and lower type options, and then right after it you get a bunch of TV-output stuff, then it immedately jumps to V4/V5 and its FSAA; then to a bunch of SLI timing options, which he didn't specify which are for the V5's dual/quad chip SLI and which are for the older style dual-Voodoo2 card SLI mode the V2's had....in other words, mass randomness in listing, LOL.

How much better does it run. In %
I was thinking about getting one, because I too have a voodoo3 2000....
Click to expand...

First, my specs, so you know where I'm coming from:

1.5Ghz Pentium4
Windows 98SE
SiS645 motherboard chipset (400Mhz Front Side Bus)
256MB DDR-RAM on a single stick
Maxi-Sound Fortissimo sound card (with a hardware XG synth and the Yamaha YMF744 chipset)
13gig HD by Maxtor (I think it's Maxtor)
52x CD-ROM drive by Actima, with speed throttling software (set to 32x to keep the noise down :P)
Voodoo5 5500 AGP, running the "Amigamerlin 2.9 Win9x driverset for V3/4/5 (Unified driver architecture, if you're wondering how its doing that)

Well, in FF8, I had a definite speed increase during motion blur effects, compared to the V3... and that's with the FSAA maxed out, too.  If it's doing that well with FSAA on, then it'll probably scream like heck in that game with FSAA off...but then again, so would any of the latest-generation cards.

I have to go now (getting me a new car...or that's what they told me....), so I'll post more later.

-edit-
Ok, I'm back, it turns out they only wanted me to give it a quick test drive. :P  Now where was I?

Oh, yeah, I remember.  At the very least, you'd get a pretty good performance return, assuming your CPU speed is at least 600Mhz (to avoid any excessive CPU bottlenecking).

Consider this:  The Voodoo4, which is a single VSA-100 chip, can hold its own against the V3, performance-wise.  The Voodoo5 is a dual VSA-100 setup, running in an SLI (Scan Line Interleave) configuration, which basically means that each chip, while perfectly capable of rendering an entire scene at a higher framerate in comparison to the V3, only needs to do half the work, since the chips work in tandem.  And this means that the relative performance of each chip, I suppose, is doubled, on top of whatever speed increase that a single VSA-100 chip configuration gives in comparison to the V3.

But, Caddberry is also right in a sense.  Unless you like to tweak stuff; play a lot of Glide-rendered games and/or know enough programming to write your own drivers from the leaked source code that's out there (in order to get better compatibility with the newer games), then you should probably make the V5 a secondary card; otherwise you may find yourself frustrated at the lack of game support....

...however, with a V3, it's that much worse, as the features that the V5 supports in hardware that the V3 doesn't are often the difference between whether or not the game initializes or runs but upchucks texture errors/missing textures (remember that 256x256 texture size limit?  Yeah, it came back and bit me a few times in games that don't use low-res textures a lot), or it doesn't look as good because of the texture size and textures that are designed with 32-bit color in mind and aren't dithered to 16-bit color so well (Some of the textures in Return to Castle Wolfenstein come to mind).

Not to mention, while most of the 3rd party driver sets that are being released (most notably the 3DHQ beta's and the Amigamerlin sets) are designed for the V3/V4/V5, they are mostly geared toward the V5, and sometimes I think some kick-arse speed update they made in the code for the V5 turned out to sacrifice some stability/compatibility in the V3, since they both use the same driver file.

All in all, I think that if someone is gonna try pushing 3Dfx based technology for as long as it can handle it, they should at LEAST get the V5 because it at least is complaint with _most_ of the DX6/7 spec in hardware, IIRC; and sometimes that is the deciding factor in whether or nto a game'll run.  Of course, insanity comes in many levels, I'm comfortable with my level of "torturing" the hardware with the newer games. :P

Other than that, though, my suggestion would be to go with ATi for DX9 hardware, mainly because of my _personal_ boycott of nVidia stuff.
 
Wow Goku...that's a lot of info...do you work for them or something?  :wicked:
 
Goku i meant no offense i wasnt saying that you liking to tweak is a bad thing.. i was saying that unless you like to do so the V5 may not be the best card choice.. which you stated as well in your post..
 
Goku i meant no offense i wasnt saying that you liking to tweak is a bad thing.. i was saying that unless you like to do so the V5 may not be the best card choice.. which you stated as well in your post..
Click to expand...

No offense taken....its just that I wanted to make it clear that the main reason I was/am constantly tweaking my V3/V5, is because I like to use the "Ooh, what does THIS button do?" method of investigating, NOT because I can't get games that were released after 3Dfx's demise, to run...though that is sometimes a reason, but not often, as the same settings can run all of the games I have.  Now, granted, I only have two definite DX8/8.1 games, but they both run, with little to no tweaking.... long-term game stability, though, is an issue that is cropping up in both, which I find really annoying about one of them, because it used to work flawlessly, and now its randomly locking up....though I think its less an issue of settings, than it is of driver versions.

Wow Goku...that's a lot of info...do you work for them or something?  :wicked:
Click to expand...

No, definitely not, considering the company's just about dissolved, let alone my lack of programming knowledge! :P

I got a lot of my information from some of the various sites like Rashly's Page (note: This should skip the flash intro and directly send you to the site, though to see the intro, just change the address from reading "index2" to "index4"); other information is kinda floating around at the forums at X-3Dfx.com and of course, because its a forum, the truthfulness of information found there is inheirently debatable, considering that we do know that there are a few people on there who like to make some rather "interesting" claims about the speed of the V5 and how it keeps increasing with 3Dhq's drivers, but common sense would say that the speed increases, while there, are probably not as large as they are claiming....in other words, fanboys are abound, you'll have to test for yourself what's real and whats propaganda, LOL. :D

Some of the other information comes from personal testing and inference based on the information gained from the other sources.

However, I am right about there being all sorts of hidden driver tweaks.  I'll give you an example of the "Shameless Plug" transparent logo option for Glide; as its usually not included in the selectable options, but is still there in the glide driver code, meaning it'll respond to it if you use it.

First, fire up "Regedit" and go to the folder "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Class\Display\0000\Glide" (I'm typing this from someone else's comp right now, so I can't verify if there's another directory in between the "0000" and "Glide" folders, but the folder should be either there or close to it, path-wise, and it IS the Glide folder you want to do this to).  Once there, right-click and add a new "String Value", and name it "FX_GLIDE_SHAMELESS_PLUG" (seriously), and then double click it, and enter the number "1" into it and press enter....and you're done, unless my memory's botched something up. :P

Now, go and load up your favorite Glide program, and it should now have a transparent logo in the lower-right hand corner.  To turn it off, you'd simply have to go back to that new string value you entered, and change it to read "0".  There is a way to make it come up as a selectable option in the 3Dfx Tools program, but this post is gettin' too long, and it would be best if I just PM you with how to do it, should you ask for it.

-edit-
Ok, finally checked, I got the registry path correct.  However, the "String Value" that is added, needs to be in all caps, so I've edited that part of the instructions to reflect that.

-2nd Edit-
Stupid me forgot to look close enough to realize that the key is STILL wrong, it's supposed to start with "FX_GLIDE", not "FX_GL"....once again, the original instructions have been changed to show that.
 
I think the voodoo 5 5000 is a good card but don't get me wrong but I thought the voodoo 4 4500 runs a lot smoother because I had borrowed the voodoo 5 5000 and at the time I was playing unreal 2 but the voodoo 5 5000 had great diffuclty playing it but my voodoo 4 4500 didn't it had had the normal glitches which you would expect for an old card running a new game with hi res graphics but overall I thought the voodoo 4 4500 was much better but the agp version you have might be better because I had the pci version of both cards great choice though its good to see that people still like the voodoo because I think they were well made boards for the time. :lol:
 
The Voodoo 4 and 5 are basicaly the same chips. The Voodoo 4 has one. the 5 does SLI with 2, and so is in theory twice the power.
 
Hey, at least you've only been forced to try to run new games on a 600mhz....back before I managed to upgrade to 1.5Ghz, I was stuck on a Pentium1 (that's right, a P1!) 233Mhz MMX....and it was slow enough to bottleneck my old V3 (meaning, the CPU was the bottleneck, not the V3)....so yeah, times were tough. :P
 
what in ur opinion are the best V5 drivers for xp?
I had to revert back to my V5 5500 pci last night after my radeon9700pro bit the dust :o
 
what in ur opinion are the best V5 drivers for xp?
I had to revert back to my V5 5500 pci last night after my radeon9700pro bit the dust :o
Click to expand...

*WARNING* uber-LONG POST AHEAD! :wicked:

Well, that's a tough question for someone who's never ran WinXP on his system (or any other NT-based version of Windows, for that matter. :P).  And my condolences on the death of your Canadian video adaptor.  Hopefully you'll be able to use the warranty to get a replacement card.

Based on what I've heard, though, I'd place my money on the AmigaMerlin 2.9 set for XP, or the 3.0 (if it's out yet).

I know the 3DHQ betas have made a bit more noise in regards to the progress they've done in getting working 3Dfx drivers in XP, but you should know that the AmigaMerlin set is basically a mix-n-matched version of the 3DHQ betas, with the focus being more on driver stability than simply using "the newest" versions of the various files.  And yes, since AmigaMerlin is part of the original 3DHQ driver team, its okay for him to do something like that.

Oh, yeah....in addition to the mix-n-match thing, I think the AmigaMerlin  sets for XP allow you to get the 3DHQ files installed without having to go thru the 3DHQ "crazy install procedure" that was needed because 3DHQ's install program wasn't as competent in WinXP (or Win98SE, in my opinion), as it should have been.

DOING THINGS BY THE BOOK  --An Essay of Sorts-- (By Goku7 :P)

The best bet to get everything up an' running with regard to D3D/OpenGL/Glide functionality in WinXP* (read my footnote regarding WinXP/Win2k and its effect on this first), is this.... So sit down, pay attention, and hang on!

Delete any 3Dfx-related ".inf" files from the system, and rename the "driver.cab" file in the \i386\ folder.  Yes, I have no clue on the specifics on where it is, due to my lack of experience with XP (PLEASE, do that stuff in Safe mode, after removing the card from device manager....cuts back on headaches compared to NOT doing this in Safe Mode).... reboot in normal mode, then have it load a standard 256-color-only VGA driver when it does its auto-detect-and-install thing....it may ask you to reboot after that, so do so if it does.

What  you've done, is prep the system to simulate a fresh install....in my option, the headches you've avoided that are normally spawned by  WinXP's "If-I-don't-like-what-you-installed-I'll-just-rollback-to-the-M$-driver-without-your-consent" policy, were worth it. :P

After that, Run the setup program so it'll have a chance to install both the 3DFX tools and the drivers.  Reboot.  Remember that "Driver.cab" file?  IIRC, you should be able to change it's name back without XP tryin' to use it to undo the driver install you just did.  If I'm wrong and it replaced the AmigaMerlin driver set with the stock M$ set, then you'd notice by seeing that Glide/OpenGL games won't function in an accelerated mode....in which case you'd probably have to start all over, this time keeping the "driver.cab" file renamed to something else.

Now, here's the fun part:  ensuring that the drivers'll pass the D3D8/9 interface tests (the ones in DXDIAG....this is based on what I had to do (in Win98SE, though) to slap DX8 around to realize it had some perfectly good D3D hardware in there....again, the results are worth it.

Go grab the DX8.0a Redistributable install package (and NOT THE RUNTIME!!!), and install that over whatever DX version you have, and then go grab the DX9.0a/b (whichever you choose, I'm still runnin' 9.0a, if you're curious) Redistributable as well, and install that over what you've just done, and reboot if necessary.

Got ALL that? ......Good!  Now, its time to see if all this DX stuff wasn't in vain.  Run the DXDIAG program, and head on over to the D3D tab, and first run the DirectDraw test (you may not have to do that, but what the heck), and then run the Direct3D test.

If everything was done correctly, Teh V5 will pass the D3D7,8, and 9 interface tests.

Now, go breathe a sigh of relief.  You're in the clear. :D

*becuse it's the NT kernel and not the Win9x kernal, you may not have to reboot so many times.  This should simplify things immensely. :wink:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top