Dilly Dally, Shilly Shally

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Just some details:

Was it really mentioned ever in the game about Rufus being dead? Just some obscure FMV was shown.
Reminds me a little of the case of Tseng. Everyone thought he was dead too, for no reason.

Didn't Ifalna explain to Dr. Gast Faremis about the disease that Jenova spread among the ancients turning them into monsters?
Maybe the geostigma was inspired by that as it's suposed to be the alien lifestream of Jenova melted with the Planet's lifestream.

 :wink:

Anyway, I don't think AC was ever meant for non FF7 fans, or FF fans in general. I myself don't consider it a movie or film, more like an OVA, maybe.
The Spirits Within was a good movie, but you know how it ended: forcing Sakaguchi to leave the company. :cry:
 
Zeng was thought dead because the original localization said he was (wrongly translated). Japanese gamers were not confused in the slightest. Rufus, on the other hand, is blown away in his office.  Not only can you see him lurch forward as his office explodes, but numerous characters say he is dead.  The game was intended to be a standalone story.  In Advent Children, they retcon the explosion and show Rufus bombarded with fire instead.  It's still a joke, even there. But there is literally no doubt whatsoever that Rufus was killed.

Short of a close up of his heart stopping or his head flying off, I am not sure how much more obvious they could have made it.  Which reminds me, when debating MGS with this rabid fanboy before, he actually suggested that Big Boss was never dead at all because the gamer did not see his heart stop.  And he was serious.

As for Jenova, she infects the Cetra clans directly.  In Advent Children, people she was never near are affected.  As I said before, AC itself has dialogue suggesting that it may be Mako causing it.  But nothing makes sense there anyway. Trying to make sense out of AC is an exercise in futility because even the writers don't know.
 
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The Spirits Within was a good movie, but you know how it ended: forcing Sakaguchi to leave the company.
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I was pretty disappointed when my friend and me saw it in the cinema. The main question was 'Where is the connection to FF?'. The film is OK but has nothing to do with FF.

AC, as all the pre- and sequels, abuse the universe of FF7 and tells a lame story only to show as much familiar faces as possible to provoke nostalgic feelings. And none of them do respect the lore of FF7. And they say they are surprised how well it all fits together. :-\

I currently read the Nordic tale of Beowulf  and if q-gears gets to an point where we can make a game with it, I will use this tale (btw. FF7 use the tale of Ragnarok) and make story which has an meaning full impact to FF7. Because the Elemental Crisis (only to go with SE's nomenclature) wasn't told at all:

As for Jenova, she infects the Cetra clans directly.
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Spirits Within was a badly written disaster, which is why it currently ranks as the number 7 box office bomb.  That is not a tag ANY film wants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_box_office_bombs#Biggest_box_office_bombs_adjusted_for_inflation

I have no idea how 100 million or more can be thrown at a film and it ending up with such a useless plot and script.

Think of how many terrible films there are out there with large budgets and then think how bad Spirits Within had to be in every department (including publicity) for it to fail THAT badly.
 
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In regards to the Stigma it was Sephiroth still using his will in the lifestream corrupting it.  Not sure exactly where is was stated but is somewhere when you look it up.
 
Im glad im not alone to realize how fashion-emo ff7 movies(and sequels) are, for me the most important difference was with zack death ( not the movie but similar ) his death was sad to watch, no music, just the sound of the bullets killing a dying zack, he looked pathetic at this moment and that made his death even more awful, two guys shooting a young man full of dreams and projects.

In crisis core, he is smiling vs 65456776555 soldiers shooting at him, where is the sadness in this trash scene? they totally ruined one of the most epic moment, it was like watching a japanese remake of 300.

I  remember a pessismist story, musics and background for most of the game, if the movie was supposed to be fan service they failed
 
nobody ever thought about this, ac was only supposed to bring back the ffvii cast in some cheap dead or alive fighting scheme.
 
Spirits Within and Advent Children are both so poorly written nobody besides die-hard fans (I am one, but even I had my troubles explaining them to others) has any idea what is going on in either of them. They are both technical marvels for the time and absolutely gorgeous animations for sure, but I don't think I really have any other praises to give other than that. For AC I will put up some pros and cons:

Pro: More Cloud!
Con: They ruined his character development and helped create the alternate universe where Cloud is emo and Squall is badass in Kingdom Hearts (I claim it all started with KH1 anyways).

Pro: Tifa, Aerith, and Yuffie are very attractive!
Con: Can't tell them apart from each other or Kadaj or Cloud. They all look like fairly bangable chicks.

Pro: Fight scenes have cool action!
Con: Action drags on too long and some scenes cross the line into absurdity.

Pro: New villains!
Con: The villains are extremely lame and in the worst way possible.

Pro: Sephiroth is awesome!
Con: He has no reason for being in the movie than the other villains sucking so hard.

Pro: The movie has some cool things in it!
Con: For every cool thing there are many more terrible things to bury it.
 
In crisis core, he is smiling vs 65456776555 soldiers shooting at him, where is the sadness in this trash scene? they totally ruined one of the most epic moment, it was like watching a japanese remake of 300.
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That goes right back to how good storytelling works.  Less is often more, and realism often has a far bigger impact on you than crazy, over-the-top scenes. It's why the battle between Vader and Luke in Jedi is  1000000X superior to the prequel fights.  If you watch it, Luke is just smashing him, there is no choreography nonsense that doesn't end.  It's believable and feels real. Spinning around with super light sabres (think back to that stupid General Grevious) comes across as lame, tiresome and unnecessary.  It doesn't make you feel anything.

Seeing Zack shot dead like a piece of nothing in the original game had far more impact. So many people fail to see this.  It's why I have long been against a remake of VII... because I know they'll completely mess this up, just like when Metal Gear Twin Snakes added all those stupid Matrix stunts.
 
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just like when Metal Gear Twin Snakes added all those stupid Matrix stunts.
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As bad as this was, it wasn't remotely the biggest problem with The Twin Snakes. Far worse was porting over the AI and new moves from Metal Gear Solid 2 without tweaking the levels to compensate. At least one boss became far too easy, and most of the carefully crafted stealth segments from the original simply didn't work right anymore. You can't design levels for a dumb AI and then stick in a smart one, y'know?
 
Totally agree with luke fight, intense, short and realistic, I never had this feeling in the prequels, ( It  looked more  like a cartoon movie with all theses retarded androids and jarjar), and its sad because i really liked the idea of retracing the story of such  interesting characters like vader, and obi. I personally think that  movies follows the same path than videogames, tons of visual and empty story/backgrounds, Of course there is still exceptions..
 
The mistake with the prequels starts with the word 'prequels'.  The idea to maximize profits to tell a story that wasn't THAT deep and wasn't really needed (in the case of FF7 Preq-Seq they are totally redundant).  A 3 hour film showing how Anakin turned to the Dark Side would have worked wonders (and it SHOULD have been done as a side story to a bigger story, NOT as the MAIN story).  But, you see... they wanted maximum profits, not maximum storytelling. The same problem occurred with the Hobbit prequels...where they made a small book into 3 long CGI battle fests to compensate.  Exact same reason, exact same outcome. The drive for money way, way outdoing the drive to make good art.

And it's being done again with the Star Wars sequels.  Same mindset will only lead to same outcome.
 
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Totally agree on what you said DLBP. Prequels are mostly an excuse to get more money out of a popular plot and if the story as already finished you just go back in time and make up some nonsense story about any detail that wasn't fully explained yet (probably as you said, because nobody cared).

There are good prequels though, the third underworld movie for instance :-D
 
As far as I'm concerned AC never happened and is not canon. It's a fanservice fanfic. Turn your brain off and it's cool to look at. That's all it got imo.
 
Thats pretty much what I say whenever people bring up AC references or use it as a source on a ffvii discussion. For me that goes for the whole compilation, though. Genesis and all this nonsense wasnt there either.
 
Thats pretty much what I say whenever people bring up AC references or use it as a source on a ffvii discussion. For me that goes for the whole compilation, though. Genesis and all this nonsense wasnt there either.
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There's nothing more annoying than "debating" with someone who actually takes that badly written garbage seriously and as part of the story.  It ain't.  There's only one story in FF7 and that's the original game.  It happens with Trek fans a lot too... they'll defend a badly written story by referencing something in the future... or debating episodes prior as if the future episodes were all preplanned.  It really is absurd. It gets worse when people start to debate what characters would or would not have done.  Like these characters are real people. 

I've seen funny threads like "Who did Cloud like more, Tifa or Aerith?"  The answer is...  the characters are not real, therefore "he" could not "like" anything.  The story doesn't even go into any real detail on that because it's just childish bullstrawberries. What matters is that you can understand and relate to the characters and that they are believable in the fiction.  There is no "What did X think / do / feel" because they aren't real.  It's what YOU feel and how YOU would react in those situations that has meaning.
 
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As far as I'm concerned AC never happened and is not canon. It's a fanservice fanfic. Turn your brain off and it's cool to look at. That's all it got imo.
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Thats pretty much what I say whenever people bring up AC references or use it as a source on a ffvii discussion. For me that goes for the whole compilation, though. Genesis and all this nonsense wasnt there either.
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https://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/They_Changed_It,_Now_It_Sucks
https://allthetropes.orain.org/w/index.php?title=Ruined_FOREVER_(Darth_Wiki)&redirect=no
https://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Fanon_Discontinuity
https://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Fanon

So anyone feels entitled enough as to say what's the canon or isn't, now? I hate when people think themselves as the owner of a story or series. They sometimes refer to hypothetical inconsistencies, most of the time false.
It's like what's happening now with Dragon Ball getting new content from the original author, Akira Toriyama, and people hating it without even having watched it, sometimes even saying they'd prefer more GT from Toei Animation or that it should have ended after the Freezer Saga on Namek. Similar to Star Wars with the Expanded Universe getting erased and new films being made. lol

This kind of fans are never happy. Never. They are usually the worst kind of fan an author has to deal with.
 
In some stories, you may have a point.  In FF7, it was designed as a closed story and that's why the additions don't work and retcon. The reason why I and others refuse to accept "ff7 canon" is because it was never designed to exist, is poorly implemented and written, and makes the original story worse when even thinking about it.

It's quite possible, and a lot more sane, to debate a standalone story as standalone. In short, I have absolutely no respect for what the writers did adding the preqs and seqs, and no respect for "ff7 canon". The prequels and sequels should never have happened and they only did because of money.  The same with Star Wars and its ridiculous expanded universe, prequels and sequels.
 
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Artema, Im perfectly happy with ff7 because I love that game, I mod and play it and I just ignore anything else about the “compilation“. How an author of Squareenix has to deal with someone like me is none of my business, I never asked for any extra ff7 canon and especially with the stuff that exists it is most obvious that it is only about money. They shall stop raping good old ff7 just for coin I just dont accept that.

Whats making sense is making newer releases of the original game for modern platforms. I really appreciate the steam port, that was well done.
 
@Artema there is truth there. IF you consider fiction as a whole that is. When being franchise specific it can get complicated to pinpoint these terms. Especially when it comes to canon vague franchises such as the FF universe.

Some people say dissidia is canon. Some people say kingdom hearts is canon. Even ATB could be canon.

If AC is canon then I'm proud to display my "Fanon Discontinuity".

Actually I'm not THAT big of a fan. I guess if an outsider was asked, he/she would probably say AC is canon. However, when that same outsider is asked if AC is necessary in the FF7 universe, they would probably answer no.

AC, if taken seriously, imo, makes FF7 worse. And the more spin-offs and other FF7 related media you drag in, the worse it gets. Imo.

That being said, I can't say I really care much. I do care in the sense I wish it was better. At least it looks cool and has good action and stuff.
 
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