Entertaining an idea

  • Thread starter Thread starter Senti
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I wrote to read this Halkun topic untill you understand why this happen, not what's happening.>.> The case is if you even consider doing a game with modern graphic engine based on THEIR idea(story/characters etc.) you'll be a threat to their $ making machine and you can as well consider yourself being warned or even sued depending on the mood of rightfull owner of stuff you reuse(meaning everything counting story/characters/logos/weapons, etc. not just models/graphic which most seem to understand reading mentioned above topic >.>). Basically that topic should be taken more generally couse if you take it just like that - literally, you end not talking about any FF7 models as you generally rip existing models to change them, soo any kind of modding FF7 can be literally taken as ripping models too. It's not against the rules through couse Square gives a pass on it as long as they doesn't see it as a minus on their $. Something that can be seen as a minus for Square even by a second rate economist, just can't pass.

 Besides like I wrote before I don't belive any free project can be born by discussing something everyone at least once thought before. Get to work first, then if you do some decent stuff others maybe join, don't count that people will form a team just becouse you dream about something soo much that you don't care being sued in the future. I doubt there are any skilled people selfish enough to continue doing stuff for themselves or starting it knowing they'll not be able to release it. It's fun doing things for others, fame or just simple pleasure from sharing own hard work with others, project that is destined to be closed down from public and can be a huge problem for all of the creators private lives later on will just not gain attention of people that actually work more than talk. So to speak I'm off the topic as I have opinion based on past experience from other forums, that such topics aka "huge ideas with 0 work put in at the time of announce" end to be +postcount for creators without really leading anywhere.:3 Don't take it personally, just any discussion about starting something rising it's uselessness along with size of the project, and is opposite to amount of people that you have on the start. Making practically a new game with new models, on new engine, with copyright/legal problems, while starting with 1 person that name self as unskilled in everything = fail. That's a short version of my harsh thoughts about this.

 I'm not a mod nor have any other power in here to say it's good or bad, just state opinion that people should take more responsibility for topics they start and think twice if it really could turn good even for just them, or could turn bad to whole community. But like I stated I don't belive this will lead to anything, so I lost interest in it. Have fun if you start anything, and good luck to not have problems from that, couse by that overgrown optimism you don't seem to be aware how big companies(at least THIS one) treat their intellectual value.>.>
 
I was planning on possibly going ahead with it after seeing what others thought of the idea. Like I said, I can do it myself, though at my skill level in the various parts of game design it would take quite a long time (hence the 20+ years remark). If enough people like the idea then I'm definitely going to go ahead with it, if for nothing else my own, and anyone else involved, personal enjoyment (Square can't say jack s*** about it if you don't distribute, and would take a court issued warrant to cease your computer just to prove you were in the wrong before they could take it to trial).
 
Allow me to put in my two cents.

I'm going to be as clear as I possibly can. I know it might seem a little rough but I think, in this case, it's really important.

You are not going to make jack shit.

Sorry, but you aren't, and I'm going to tell you why.

In the short introduction you gave us, you demonstrated that you wanted to make a game with an engine you did not make, with characters you did not make, and then had the balls to ask for programmers, modelers, and graphic artists to make things that you are not going to make. This leads me to believe that you really don't have the intent of making really anything.

This is really a pet peeve of mine...

It's fun to play pretend. It really is. It's fun to indulge in fantasy of making a game, being the big guy and calling the shots. Hell, I do it too! But, really, what you are doing is a silly hypothetical. Have you even made something as trite as a Tetris clone? A Pong game? If you had an ounce of creativity in your body, you would sit down with a simple pencil and paper, and try and create something...anything! all by yourself. Sponging off the work that someone else did shows an intellectual laziness that really bugs the holy hell out of me. It bugs the holy hell out of Square too.

Now, before you call me a hypocritical bastard, listen up!

One of the many joys in my life is to take things apart to see how they work. It started when I tore apart a washing machine when I was 12. All I had was a toolbox and a front lawn. My mom was really pissed, but I learned something. When I got into computers I was doing to the programs I owned. I even made a very professional sector editor when I was 13 and was doing hex dumps before I was in high school. I pick apart, break down, and digest. It's why I run the wiki and the reason why Gears (the doc that documented for the first time the innards of FF7) was made in the first place. Q-gears was something I started and exploded into something I couldn't control when Akari took over. One is a tear down, and the other is a rebuild. Notice that Q-gears itself doesn't even take FF7 data naively. In the end. It's an engine for you to make what you want.

The up shot is this.. Big dreams? Awesome! Cool plan? Great! But if you didn't even take the time to put a pencil to paper, your words are aren't worth the electrons used to put them on my screen.

As an addendum; make your own characters, your own story, your own world! You would be surprised much more you love them because they are yours. Then, and only then, can you be a complete dick when someone steals it from you.
 
Last edited:
Actually, I have made several of my own games using other engines, using the same engine that created Final Fantasy VII: Dark Cloud I created my own game a long time ago called Chaotic Era, a simple single player RPG based loosely on the D20 pen and paper system. I also created the pen and paper version of Chaotic Era at roughly the same time and ran it as a game for 6 years with a group of friends. I'm also a former mod writer for the RPGA during D&D 3.5 and the Living Greyhawk campaign, and have designed and coded several game trainers/hacks for various games, first one starting with the original Diablo by Blizzard. I've done quite a bit of my own fantasy art on paper, not based on anything in particular, nor have I ever published anything that was completely and originally mine online aside from a few poems as I'm tired of inconsiderate pricks who will find someones drawing, story or the like, throw in minor modifications and call it their own original work without so much a mention to the original author of said works.

I've worked in development teams for Delta Force Xtreme mods (http://www.ngs-squad.com/ disbanned a few years back), Warcraft 3 map development (http://www.herowarsee.com/ created some of the best Aeon of Strife style maps on the WC3 engine, which there are still offshots of those maps being made to date, and have assisted in the development and bug testing at http://www.redscull.com/ for the map Swat: Aftermath), and Unreal Tournament (the original, had a work in progress mod based around melee weapons more then ranged weapons, dropped when my hard drive crashed with the only backup I had and over 90 hours of work put in).

I also know basic programming in C/C+/C++, Java, Jass, Perl, AHK scripting, PHP and your basic HTML. Implying that I only want to be lazy and sponge off the work of another is a pet peeve of mine. What I was looking for wasn't someone to do the work for me, but someone to more or less bounce ideas off of and help make it better where my "basic" skills alone would be lacking in luster. As I said, I'm far from the best at the things I can do, but just because I'm asking if anyone might be willing to assist in a possible idea of mine in no way means I'm unable to do it myself.

The major reason behind this post was for me to get the idea out and see how I felt about it, as well as others, after discussing it. Some people are able to sit down and start doing something out of the blue without thinking about it or discussing it, where as I prefer to have a seat, put things out on the table to analyze it from each direction and get input from others of similar mindset about said idea. I can sit here and squeeze out idea after idea which at first glance seem pretty kick ass but when viewed from another angle you find gaps and holes, sometimes these can be "patched up" so to speak, others they can't. I also like to come up with new ways to do things that are already around, such as what this topic was about, an idea to do FFVII in a different play style then it was originally done, while keeping the original story and setting in tact. Yes, I'm primarily a thinker, but that in no way, shape, form or fashion means that I won't or can't act on an idea if I like it enough to take it from concept to development.
 
Then Godspeed, but I don't think you will find much help with us.
 
Like I said, even a person to bounce ideas off of would be a tremendous help. I like to plan out the basics before I get to to the actual developing, that way you know what to shoot for when you begin as opposed to just trying different ways that come to your head spontaneously. Two heads are better then one, as the old adage goes, someone to bounce ideas off of helps me to refine the concept before development.
 
I can bounce  :mrgreen:

So what is your plan on the Walking around/Spring into battle idea?

FF7 was so split down the middle because of the way it was. You're thinking of Real-time, so what kind of transitions would you think of using for that?

I think the battles of FF7 are one of the most important concepts of the game, that's why I bring it up first.

Are we looking at DoC running around then "oh hey there's bad guys..." or kind of like Walking around, scene stops as your enemy approaches, then into battle we go?

Just trying to get a feel of your position on the battling system.
 
Here are my two pennies. I say what I'm about to say without any knowledge of making games. It might be that I'm overestimating what you have to do, but I doubt it.

You have to understand that you are trying to start a huge project, remaking the game, and one that will have very little benefit to anyone until it is finished. Maybe you think that you can see a project of this size through to completion. Maybe you can do it. But we see lots of big projects like this on here and very few of them go anywhere. Have a look at q-gears; that project has been going on for years and it still isn't finished. And q-gears has some very experienced and determined programmers working on it. I don't see you making progress in this project as quickly as Halkun and Akari have made progress with their project, and I don't see your patience lasting as long either. Maybe you're enthusiastic now, but what will happen in a year's time if progress is slow? Will you still be willing to continue?

As a general rule, the most successful projects on these forums are the more modest ones that give immediate results. If you're making a hardcore mod, you can see some of the fruits of you labour after a few minutes of playing around. If you're making a tool or a model, you can see results and have something worth using within weeks or days. Motivation is very important in projects that people are not getting paid for. This is why I suggested that Team Avalanche focus on one part of the game, which lead sl and timu to announce the Bombing Mission; having something playable as quickly as possible is good for one's motivation because it shows that one's work is paying off (the Bombing Mission has some other benefits in that it's easier when work is broken down into chunks and it's easier when there are several kinds of models and textures being made, giving different artists a chance to work in parallel).

The Team Avalanche project is the only one of its size that I can see working out, because it can be broken down and progress can be seen quickly. It's also a project that started off small, with sl just making a new font, and grew to be huge as more and more visible progress was made and more and more people joined. I can't see your project going the same way. Even if you're determined and skilled, I can see this fizzling out very quickly.
 
I can bounce  :mrgreen:

So what is your plan on the Walking around/Spring into battle idea?

FF7 was so split down the middle because of the way it was. You're thinking of Real-time, so what kind of transitions would you think of using for that?

I think the battles of FF7 are one of the most important concepts of the game, that's why I bring it up first.

Are we looking at DoC running around then "oh hey there's bad guys..." or kind of like Walking around, scene stops as your enemy approaches, then into battle we go?

Just trying to get a feel of your position on the battling system.
Click to expand...
Actually, this is one of the things I was thinking about myself, originally I had thought of doing them all on the field like FFVII:DoC, but then I got to thinking if it's done similar to the original and Crisis Core, it would be a bit easier as it would increase the randomness of random battles, as well as keep the use of several of the materia which modify random battles (preemptive strike, etc.) As well as reducing the number of models required on the map at a given time if you fade out any other NPC models, allowing a smoother frame rate without the extra graphics being rendered.

Here are my two pennies. I say what I'm about to say without any knowledge of making games. It might be that I'm overestimating what you have to do, but I doubt it.

You have to understand that you are trying to start a huge project, remaking the game, and one that will have very little benefit to anyone until it is finished. Maybe you think that you can see a project of this size through to completion. Maybe you can do it. But we see lots of big projects like this on here and very few of them go anywhere. Have a look at q-gears; that project has been going on for years and it still isn't finished. And q-gears has some very experienced and determined programmers working on it. I don't see you making progress in this project as quickly as Halkun and Akari have made progress with their project, and I don't see your patience lasting as long either. Maybe you're enthusiastic now, but what will happen in a year's time if progress is slow? Will you still be willing to continue?

As a general rule, the most successful projects on these forums are the more modest ones that give immediate results. If you're making a hardcore mod, you can see some of the fruits of you labour after a few minutes of playing around. If you're making a tool or a model, you can see results and have something worth using within weeks or days. Motivation is very important in projects that people are not getting paid for. This is why I suggested that Team Avalanche focus on one part of the game, which lead sl and timu to announce the Bombing Mission; having something playable as quickly as possible is good for one's motivation because it shows that one's work is paying off (the Bombing Mission has some other benefits in that it's easier when work is broken down into chunks and it's easier when there are several kinds of models and textures being made, giving different artists a chance to work in parallel).

The Team Avalanche project is the only one of its size that I can see working out, because it can be broken down and progress can be seen quickly. It's also a project that started off small, with sl just making a new font, and grew to be huge as more and more visible progress was made and more and more people joined. I can't see your project going the same way. Even if you're determined and skilled, I can see this fizzling out very quickly.
Click to expand...
I'm actually a very dedicated person, when I set my sights on something I may deviate from it here or there, but I keep going untill I can't go any further or I get it done. The Unreal Tournament mod I was doing was 90 hours put in over the period of 2 years, and was actually my first full scale mod, it was intended to be a "Medieval era" mod, the only ranged weapons being bows/crossbows, but primarily sticking with melee weapons. I admit that this project of mine is beyond large, which is the reason for me looking for others to bounce ideas off of and such. Besides, a fresh mind thinking about the same thing as me might think of another way to do something that I'm stuck on. Hence why I chose the user base here, because of how long I've been a member/lurker of these forums I know that most of the members here know what they're doing and could help with refining the concept of a Final Fantasy VII game.

EDIT: As it stands right now I'm in the process of mapping out each aspect of the original game and how it might be converted into the concept I have.
 
Last edited:
I'm going to go ahead and demotivate you a little more by agreeing with both Kudistos and Halkun.   This isn't going to go anywhere.

For a perfect, single example of why I say this, please refer to this thread -> https://www.ff7catalog.com/threads/6367/ Of course, as I've said in all the other threads like this, feel free to prove me/us wrong and good luck.   However, if your resolve has been weakened enough about your project, might I suggest jumping on board one of the other dozens of projects currently going on.

/pessimism
 
I'm gonna go ahead and point out a major difference with Squall Leonhart 3000: He pretty much admitted right off the bat that he had no skill, and showed ZERO inclination to even make an attempt at any actual work. I think, more than anything, he wanted a finished project that he could play, and he was trying to get other people to do it by pretending to be a team player.

I doubt Senti can do this alone, but it seems that he's at least able and willing to try.
 
I'm going to go ahead and demotivate you a little more by agreeing with both Kudistos and Halkun.   This isn't going to go anywhere.

For a perfect, single example of why I say this, please refer to this thread -> https://www.ff7catalog.com/threads/6367/ Of course, as I've said in all the other threads like this, feel free to prove me/us wrong and good luck.   However, if your resolve has been weakened enough about your project, might I suggest jumping on board one of the other dozens of projects currently going on.

/pessimism
Click to expand...
Already offering assistance where I can to the other projects out there. There's not much I can offer to most of them aside from perspective and a file hosting service, but that's not so hard to do if you have the resources. I can do some basic modeling and texturing though my skills at those are no where near the level of many of the model makers here, so most, if not all of what I could contribute on that front others could do much better then I could. I'm more then willing to do what I can though, I try to keep up on the various projects around and look for any roles I can help out with in those projects.

I'm gonna go ahead and point out a major difference with Squall Leonhart 3000: He pretty much admitted right off the bat that he had no skill, and showed ZERO inclination to even make an attempt at any actual work. I think, more than anything, he wanted a finished project that he could play, and he was trying to get other people to do it by pretending to be a team player.

I doubt Senti can do this alone, but it seems that he's at least able and willing to try.
Click to expand...
I admit, I'm likely getting in a bit over my head for my current level of skill, but I'm not the kind of person afraid of learning as I go and refining my own abilities. Each of my own projects I start is to test and learn for myself as much as creating something for others. I'm the kind of person that loves to learn new things. I love a bit of a challenge and that's why I do things such as this, or my previous projects. For me most of the actual fun is in the project itself, the finish project is just there for self-gratification. I also admit, the wording of my original post was implying I wanted others to do work for me, but that's not how I intended it at all, though the help down the line would be great to have, until that time I don't plan on relying on anyone else for anything except the possibility of idea bouncing as now.

Edit: Looks like UDK is a no go due to hardware issues, loaded up one of their tutorial open sources games to look over the coding structure and see the difference between it and the original Unreal Engine that I used long ago, crashed multiple times while loading the 3d renderings, did some in depth research on the crash report and found that, even though my graphics card exceeds the minimal requirements when it comes to specifications, the software portion is not compatible, so after a quick search and research I've found a secondary game engine in ShiVa 3D, also free, at http://www.stonetrip.com/ and I'm currently going over the coding styles and learning the program itself before I start in earnest.
 
Last edited:
Actually, this is one of the things I was thinking about myself, originally I had thought of doing them all on the field like FFVII:DoC, but then I got to thinking if it's done similar to the original and Crisis Core, it would be a bit easier as it would increase the randomness of random battles, as well as keep the use of several of the materia which modify random battles (preemptive strike, etc.) As well as reducing the number of models required on the map at a given time if you fade out any other NPC models, allowing a smoother frame rate without the extra graphics being rendered.
Click to expand...
Hmm, I've never played Crisis Core because I don't have a PSP lol. But after watching a few battle-scene vids I like the style you are thinking. I wonder if it would be smart/plausible to use a KotOR style for Materia usage to slow things down for people who need time to think lol. I don't know if you've played the fan made Team Avalanche yet or not, but I think that would be  cool way to incorporate random battles.
 
Well, if you're willing to put in the effort, then go for it, but I do HIGHLY suggest releasing any updates for it on a different site from Qhimm, so we don't get in trouble for it if Square decides to bring down its legal hammer on the project, like Chrono Trigger.

In fact, asking permission from Square themselves would be a better idea. Try to contact them and ask about starting such a project. Try to appeal to them and make them want to let you start it, like your idea for needing an actual installation. Or, allow Square to take the program and sell it as they see fit once it's finished. That's what I think you should do, but it's really all up to you.
 
Well, if you're willing to put in the effort, then go for it, but I do HIGHLY suggest releasing any updates for it on a different site from Qhimm, so we don't get in trouble for it if Square decides to bring down its legal hammer on the project, like Chrono Trigger.

In fact, asking permission from Square themselves would be a better idea. Try to contact them and ask about starting such a project. Try to appeal to them and make them want to let you start it, like your idea for needing an actual installation. Or, allow Square to take the program and sell it as they see fit once it's finished. That's what I think you should do, but it's really all up to you.
Click to expand...
This has already been thought of, once I get the ball rolling on the programming portion, getting in touch with their legal department is actually one of my plans. Like I said, I'm not worried about the legalities of the project until it's time to worry about that. Right now the project is still primarily an idea, got some of those put down into writing, on here and on paper where I'm listing each of the various aspects of the game and how I'm wanting to do them. I'm also having to learn an entirely new programming engine then what I've used in the past, which isn't much of a surprise because I'm sure that the Unreal Engine 3 which is what comes with UDK is different from Unreal Engine 1 in enough ways to make me have to learn it all anew.
Actually, this is one of the things I was thinking about myself, originally I had thought of doing them all on the field like FFVII:DoC, but then I got to thinking if it's done similar to the original and Crisis Core, it would be a bit easier as it would increase the randomness of random battles, as well as keep the use of several of the materia which modify random battles (preemptive strike, etc.) As well as reducing the number of models required on the map at a given time if you fade out any other NPC models, allowing a smoother frame rate without the extra graphics being rendered.
Click to expand...
Hmm, I've never played Crisis Core because I don't have a PSP lol. But after watching a few battle-scene vids I like the style you are thinking. I wonder if it would be smart/plausible to use a KotOR style for Materia usage to slow things down for people who need time to think lol. I don't know if you've played the fan made Team Avalanche yet or not, but I think that would be  cool way to incorporate random battles.
Click to expand...
Yes, I do like the way that the random battles are in CC, you're running around in non-combat mode (can't attack or cast spells). Screen pausing a moment as enemies appear, you drawing your weapon and readying for battle and enabling the use of combat magic. Of course, like I said before, would keep it more toward the original with the materia and such, including the limit breaks, though those would require pausing the enemy and ally units on the battlefield to perform properly, it wouldn't require much changing those from what they are now. I'm not quite sure what you mean by a KotOR, you talking about the Star Wars game? If so, I've never played that one, played JKJO and JKJA though.
 
I should probably point out that it's been a year since I thought up Rebirth (KERNEL and SCENE hack), and it still isn't done. Granted, I've been very busy this year, but developing a whole game from scratch just isn't feasible.

I suggest thinking what's most important to you about this mod, and then join an existing project that seeks something similar. If you'd like to see FF7 with hi-res assets or more advanced engines, TA and Q-Gears could help. If the battle engine is important to you, well, first I'd suggest thinking how this works out. You could use the Source SDK and use HL chars as placeholders for your private project, to see if the battle system works as anticipated.

A wild HEADCRAB approaches! Command?
 
The biggest portion of what I was hoping to accomplish with this was the TPS/RPG style play, more similar to CC and DoC then the turn based play. The only real downside to this is the inability to control multiple people, which I was going to address by allowing you to swap the main controllable character with the PHS system, and have two others controlled by AI following you around and assisting in battle. The idea itself is very feasible actually, after all nothing is impossible, though the time and effort required to do it may make it seem unrealistic to most. The tools are there to do it, all it takes is the willingness to learn and actually do it.
 
A wild HEADCRAB approaches! Command?
Click to expand...
Run away!

Attempt failed. you die.

Heh Heh, i could see something like this being the method, however attacks from behind and such would be quite interesting, you cant always just stumble upon something, they have to take the initiative to attack you too.
 
Hence the reason for using a battle system similar to CC, you can stumble upon them and get the preemptive strike, or they could ambush you and give you a good slap on the behind. However, I was still going to make it real time, meaning you can chain attacks and cast spells without worrying about an ATB or anything like that, Slow would actually slow your movements down and Haste would speed them up. Outside of battle you could use non-damaging spells as normal, but adding in a few extras in that such as Haste to get around quicker on foot. When I get my table of the way I see the various game parts playing out in my head I'll post it to let others see a little more clearly what I see in my head.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top