[FF7PC-98/Steam] gjoerulv's "Hardcore" mod (v1.0.7.2)

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Hello everybody. New guy here.

I just tried the mod. Love some of the changes. Didn't like the materia and equipment changes so much, so I ended up not patching them.

As for the mod, I pretty much gave up before the scorpion robot. Got killed by the encounter with the machine thing, the blue guard and the tombstone thing. Used all my four potions and cast 6 spells before running out of MP and dying. Had to start the game again and died at the same point, before the save point. Tried a third time and managed to save, only to run out of potions before reaching the boss.

So I decided my strategy wasn't working. Tried to gain a few levels near the elevator, where the enemies are easier. Gained two levels but kept loosing after that. I only had two potions and whenever I ran into the three blue guys, it was game over. I can manage them in a straight fight with a few spells to back it up. But if they inflict darkness in one of my characters, its game over... I don't have enough potions to hold on and one character alone can't fight the three of them.

So yeah, the mod its pretty much broken as it is. I reckon there must be something I'm missing, or that perhaps not patching the materia and equipment deprived me of something I was supposed to have...

Any thoughts would be helpful. I think I'm gonna try "buying" potions with the save editor, as well as some accessory to ward of darkness. Maybe then I'll get past this part.

But from my experienced in RPGs and modding in general: changes should be made gradual. The player should have time to get the feeling and start experiencing the increased difficulty in a way they can actually managed. Right at the beginning there are no stores or inns. If the players screw up or are unlucky they're done for. That's not really something "difficult", but rather unfair. Rising the difficulty after sector 7 would make more sense, as the players has had the opportunity to buy materia and itens, along with getting Tifa.


PS: this is the most annoying forum I've ever seen when it comes to posting. There are many options to four check-up questions during registration, confirmation emails and more four check questions after each post. This is 2014, not 1999. Spambots aren't untouchable anymore. There are better security methods out there.
 
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The first reactor can be tricky because you start quite weak and can quickly run out of potions reaching/fighting Scorpion. I'd recommend camping up on the catwalk just outside the Reactor (where Wedge is) and fighting the MPs and Mono-Drives that appear there. They're quite weak and drop Potions, Grenades, and even Ethers. Once you've reached about Lv.7 and have a stockpile of, say 10 potions (this'll take time because you're using them to heal; try to get the most out of each potion) try venturing down and killing a Sweeper or three; they drop Bolt Plumes which can be very helpful against Scorpion (3000HP).

Once you get out of that Reactor, and maybe get past Air Buster who's also quite tough due to his counter-attacks, things'll open up a lot more. I'd recommend patching the Materia + Equipment though, it's part of the experience but then it's up to you. It's a great mod, it needs a commitment of time but I feel that it's definitely worth it. Felt like waging a campaign, something to really get your teeth into. There's some surprising status weaknesses for some bosses too so it's worth experimenting with items/spells/Lv.1 Limits if you get stuck later on.
 
Thanks for reply, Sega Chief

That's what I've been trying to do, fight those little guys back there and avoid ones before the boss. I managed to hold them, but its not that profitable.

I do like hard RPGs. i've written a published Star Ocean 2 Universe Guide, for gods sake... And that hurts. But the game mechanic makes it so that if you really know what your doing, you can get past the early challenges. Here the same principle doesn't quite apply. Mainly because you have access to stores after you get through some difficult enemies. But still.

FF7's materia system provides a rather unique tactical framework to get past challenging enemies. Unfortunately, the more useful materias are only accessible by the end of the game, and that makes them, otherwise extremely interesting, quite pointless. Look at Magic Counter, for example. Amazing materia. Only useful for the third disc (or very late second). Same goes for Sneak Attack and a dozen more.

Sneak attacking with strong spells to damage though enemies at the beginning of a battle could be a great strategy. More if we had access to Mega-All (right know I'm not sure that ST spells hit all enemies in Sneak Attack with Mega-All. Life2 works with Final Attack this way if Mega-All is present, so it might do the same for Sneak Attack).

Anyway, forgive me late hour thoughts. I wrote a published FF7 guide in my country back in the days and worked a lot with materia strategies. I was one of those guys who managed to beat the weapons without KOTR, Mime, Limit spamming or source farming. My only regret was that the greatest combos and strategies could only be used against the giant tin cans, as we didn't had access to said materias before them, and had no one to use the combos on (maybe except for Master Tonberries).


So here goes a suggestion for the developers: many of these materias are very interesting early on. In a normal play-through they could be overpowered. But here that principle doesn't really apply. So promoting strategy would be a great way to hook old time players. Why not spread some of those great materia around disc one caves and optional treasure boxes and/or Gould Saucer? Have the players earn them.
 
Yeah it takes awhile to get used to it, but hey it's a hardcore mod, there are other mods out there which dont have that much of a difficulty increase ( i imagine the nightmare mod is even better haha) but hey its the beginning of the game some more nice parts will come for you if you decide to continue on ;) Also note that demi is really useful in this version of the mod and if youre stuck on a boss you can still watch Sega Chief's youtube playlist which is linked in the first post of the thread.
 
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@Loseless
If you haven't tried already, try grinding at the suggested spot (outside the reactor at the bridge) 'til lvl 8, or 'til you have plenty of grenades. The granades are only usable in the 2 first reactors. At least when Shinra HQ is done, grenades are pretty useless. After Air Buster, the need for any grinding should be gone.

Concerning kernel changes etc, it's up to you of course, but there isn't really that much of a change. However, it's worth noting that the early game may suffer from not patching kernel, and mid-late game actually getting easier (Ribbon, Big Guard overpowerd etc.).
 
Well, no one can blame me for not being sadistic. I managed to get to Shinra building and there two things driving me nuts.

1 - The ecounter with the two Shinra soldiers and the SOLDIER 3rd class. The guy pretty much killed me a dozen times. Plus having him put people to sleep before theres medicine to cure sleep and accessories to prevent sleep is just unfair. Add enough MP to cast Bolt 2 and Ice 2 like there's no tomorrow, plus a long range attack and the thing is harder than the bosses. I wanted to steal the Hardedge from him (supposing he still carries it) but with his level being 22 or 24 its pretty much impossible for me to have enough tries before he kills me.

2 - The fights seem to lack some balance. There are enemies that just deal too much damage for no reason. 250 per hit is too much for this part of the game without some grinding. The bosses deal less damage. Its just unreasonable. It feels like every fight might be a boss if the strong enemy comes and the bosses are just pushovers... I end up thinking that I would be better off just running from everything and rushing through the bosses. It's the same principle used in D&D games. Some DMs like to make each fight a boss fight. But that ends up ruining the experience, because when there's an actual boss fight, there are no surprises or challenges. The player already went through hell and survived. There should be a build up, where players get comfortable, then face challenges, then surpass something difficult, rinse and repeat, culminating in something really challenging. I can think at the top of my head of tree games that did this perfectly: Legend of Dragoon, FF8 and Chrono Cross. There were bosses, sure. But sometimes there would be a different kind of boss, with a different kind of music. More dark, more frightening and you just KNEW you we're in for some pain. If everything's difficult, there's no surprises. No difficulty peaks. It begins hard and stays hard.


Sorry for being blunt, but if there's one thing I like about games is balance. Theres something called a learning curve. Theres also another thing called difficulty spikes. A basic principle of RPGs is that enemies should become difficult at points when players have options regarding fighting them. In the first hours of any RPG there's hardly a difficult enemy, but that's because the players are still supposed to be learning and getting familiar with the mechanics. Throwing off a boss like Air Buster, wich made me level 'till 14 to beat it, has no point. The player can't go back and buy more materia. Also can't buy items. Can't have access to equipment or damaging items that would really help (except maybe Shrapnels, but they are a pain to get). So, it just comes to dying half a dozen times, figuring it out and then leveling to the point of having enough HP to survive it.

Now if we were talking about the boss in Junon, or others beyond there, that would be a whole different story. The player could change equipment, materia, use items or try using other party members. There's real strategy there.


I don't want to make all the work put into this seem like wrongly done. Its not that. I understand that some people like this kind of challenges. Even I used to love them when I was young and in other games more suited for strategical thinking (Front Mission 3, Star Ocean 2, etc). But even from a simple storyteller's point, there's an objective lack of balance.

Best regards
 
Cheers Loseless, thanks for feedback!

Sorry for being blunt, but if there's one thing I like about games is balance.
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This mod is not for you I think. This is a hard mod not a story mod which main focus is balance.

Not to sound like an elitist, or to be rude  :evil:, but it's kinda hard to take your critique seriously. For instance, the Soldier 3rd also cast Sleepel and was noticeable harder than normal trash even in vanilla FF7. For the greater part, this mod basically is a stat scale from vanilla, which means your critique is valid for vanilla FF7 as well. Also, FF8 balanced? Seriously? It's probably one of the least balanced games (at least FF) ever created. I don't blame the creators much though. To make the enemies level with you and mix variables such as junction and GF in the equation, it's pretty damn hard to keep it balanced. No wonder it turned out like it did.

There should be a build up, where players get comfortable, then face challenges, then surpass something difficult, rinse and repeat, culminating in something really challenging.
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Hmmmm... well, again not what my mod strives to do. I had a more dynamic approach.

It sounds like, from most of your sentences after this one, that you expected a complete new or different game. These sentences can easily be countered by: "Yes, you are right, but this is a mod".

For instance:

Theres something called a learning curve. Theres also another thing called difficulty spikes. A basic principle of RPGs is that enemies should become difficult at points when players have options regarding fighting them. In the first hours of any RPG there's hardly a difficult enemy, but that's because the players are still supposed to be learning and getting familiar with the mechanics.
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Yes, you are right, but this is a mod.

This mod's focus is to boost the game's difficulty. I have no problem admitting it's not optimally balanced. I find the dynamic difficulty curve much more entertaining imho. Even then, this mod is pretty balanced all things considered.


In any case, it doesn't sound sound like this mod is for you. Unless you convert to your younger self, you may want to check out the Reasonable Difficulty mod or Sage Chief's mod named New Threat. They're more user friendly I believe.  ;)

On a slightly different note, I have gotten all sorts on feedback on this. From "waaaayy too hard" to "waaaayy too easy".  :-o

Again, I don't want to sound like a bitch here, sorry if I did.
 
I really like the mod.  It's the first time I've modded FF7 having completed it several times in the past, it's a refreshing change.  I'm currently stuck on getting Beta from the Zolom right after acquiring the buggy
(using the same method as Sega Chief).  I've fought him dozens of times now and managed to get him to 6hp in one try, which was incredibly frustrating... But I'm sure it'll feel great when it finally works!

I think I've found every variation of this method failing, including Yuffie landing a hit for 7777 damage and killing him, not sure how I got 7th heaven considering she was on ~300 health.
 
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I have tackled everything in this mod except sephiroth and jenova. I can say that the mod takes know how grit and quite a bit of luck. All the fights I ran into had a strategy or peculiar method to coming out on top. You have to weigh the benefit of healing now or later and in most cases its not always one way or the other. The mako reactor was a thrill to go through when first tackling the mod. I quickly grasped the cost benefit of using my bolt plume to kill a formation to not take any hits and receive a bolt plume in return all the while getting hp pots back as well. I didn't gain a bolt plume but I did not lose one either and also came out with some healing potential for later on. This is a recurring theme for the majority of the mod you have to play smart and really weigh your choices. I personally did not enjoy the replacements for the master materias though as by the time you can get these materia they don't appear to have any practical use for me at the stage in the game your at when you get them. The materia would have been incredibly useful playing through the mod mid way point. The materia doesn't do anything to really help you in the final encounters such as the weapons fights including omega which I will touch up on more here in a minute. Now for jenova and sephirtoh the master materia replacements don't bring anything either. Don't get me wrong the ideas are good but I feel are just poorly implemented do to the point at which you obtain them they bring no practical use because by the time you get to this point in the game the only fights you have left are fights where this materia can't one hit kill them or even banish them. The omega weapon fight is honestly from what I can tell a rng fest from hell. Max stats don't do anything for you when you tackle this beast as with a party of 9999hp limit will get utter owned and quite thoroughly might I add. Omega has many party wide sweep attacks that are bound to hit at least one person or sometimes even your whole team. Your tank also can't stand a chance against him as even with back row + sadness+ dragon force+ barrier + Ziedrich + even Shield status can't save them from some of his attacks which ignore all defense boosts that are possible in the game. This creates a problem though the fight deviates from being creative and yields itself to are you lucky enough to dish out the most damage possibly in the least amount of time for you to kill him. alienating the tank role which seemed to be a very prominent and important tactic to hold onto and use throughout the mod and dismiss and throw out the window for this fight is disappointing. With KOTR dealing a butt ton of damage and omnislash respectively along with other limits you had to put something in there to protect omega from getting owned. So I understand the invincible mode that omega employs when getting hit with too much damage too fast. This act though turns the whole fight into a can you survive just long enough for you to hit him again? I would say its a no even with 3 final attack materias and all kinds of materia set ups the fight yields to nothing but are you lucky enough? I can understand if the fight was a very skill and very know how of the games mechanics but its not its all up to rng and what the boss uses because at the end of the day your tank will not survive long enough for you to really come out in the end unless you get there based off rng. I would know this though and speak through experience as I attempted this fight well over 200 times. With traditional methods I never came close to when I just used 4 hero drinks on cloud used his omnislash + mime through the whole fight getting to the green omega and hitting him 3 times before I died. Enough rambling though the mod is a very enjoyable experience and you have to be on your toes the whole way through hence hardcore. Except that omega hes just a u mad bro? ps. save yourself the trouble and make sure to play on break hp limit or your going to basically be crying about half way through when things just start killing your tank for one hit most of the time.
 
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@Iceboundphoenix
I wouldn't say Omega is purely rng. It's intended for a maxed out party. Although rng and luck admittedly is a significant part of the battle, having proper stats, timing and strategy is the way to win. With max stats and, for example, a mystile omega will miss most of the time.

It's also assumed you have plenty of megalixirs, hero drinks, final attacks etc. Thus Omega is meant to curbstomp any setup.
 
Oh believe me I got plenty items to do something against this guy but even with a party will all mystiles and 3 final attack materias this guy is a no no for a 9999hp party. He is rly annoying since he is always smacking me for max hp.
 
You can beat him with a 9999 party. In fact, Sega Chief does it in his video links (OP) with only one member at 9999. This fight definitely requires the most refined strategy of any other bosses in the mod, but it's not impossible at 9999.
 
Thing is, I was very, very lucky in that fight and the strategy was mostly cutting out the RNG as much as possible and making the tactic streamlined so I could react faster on Active ATB and also reduce fatigue from re-tries. From what I've seen, a 30,000HP team seems to be a much better fit for both that fight and the last two bosses of the game (and maybe the two optional WEAPONs as well). Both Bizarro and Safer's attacks usually go straight past 9999 unless you have a full compliment of damage-reducing modifiers up, and if they land a critical then it's usually not enough. Omega is slightly worse in that his Adrenaline has a Hero Drink effect so that quickly pushes it past the tipping point.

I don't think any fight can be said to be purely RNG, the player's set-up always makes an impact. But the Omega fight has a lot more than the others. Most of the counter-attacks are triggered at random, and his use of attacks is also dependent on randomised variables. Add to the mix the defence-ignoring attacks that are coming from a 255 stat with a 30-100% stat modifier and you have a scenario where you need to go the dodging route, which is never 100% due to the priority order of Lucky Hit and Lucky Dodge.

Another thing with 9999 teams is that their damage output is effectively 1/3 of what a 30,000 team can put out. A 30,000 team can potentially defeat the Green Phase of Omega in 2-3 attacks, which makes a fairly consistent strategy possible. A 9999 team needs to hit him 6+ times but that's considering an Omnislash that's hitting for 9999 damage each time; in a fight like this, that limit break Mime chain will be lost at some point with the possibility of successfully recovering it several times over being very unlikely due to the high disruption. As you need a defence-ignoring attack to effectively combat his inevitable 510 defence, the alternative is KOTR, which can deal either 4000-9000 damage per strike depending on how you've set yourself up (or if he has Wall active), which translates as even more successful hits needed on Green Omega. This means with a 9999 team you're going to be fighting a maxed Omega at some point and that you're going to be fighting him for much longer; you'll be seeing a lot more attacks and counter-attacks, half of which have that defence-ignoring flag requiring a dodging set-up; so that's where the odds of a successful fight start to really rack up. The longer you fight the guy, the longer your odds get.

One thing I was never sure of; was the mod meant for 9999 teams or 30,000 teams? Based on the last two bosses I was thinking it was 30,000 teams but I never see any mention of the break HP/Damage limit being required or recommended. Dziugo is credited for his mod in the credit section, but it's got in brackets 'for testing purposes'. Unless it has already and I've missed it being mentioned, I reckon that mod or similar should be recommended on the front page or in the installer. I just feel that it seems to be a more natural fit for the end-game of this mod.
 
Sega pretty much summed it all up in a bow for what I could have said in response lol. But yes this fight is one hell of a knockout and definitely gets worse the longer it draws out. I had fun in getting my arse kicked and that was the beauty of the hardcore mod. Omega is indeed the most hardcore fight I have ever exp. ps. The defense ignoring move doe whoosh.
 
One thing I was never sure of; was the mod meant for 9999 teams or 30,000 teams? Based on the last two bosses I was thinking it was 30,000 teams but I never see any mention of the break HP/Damage limit being required or recommended. Dziugo is credited for his mod in the credit section, but it's got in brackets 'for testing purposes'. Unless it has already and I've missed it being mentioned, I reckon that mod or similar should be recommended on the front page or in the installer. I just feel that it seems to be a more natural fit for the end-game of this mod.
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Limit breaking is definitely recommended for people with a more casual approach, other then that it's obviously easier with limit breaking. It's NOT meant for limit breaking. But it's tested with limit breaking to see how much damage actually is dealt etc. With a visual representation of damage I found it easier to "calculate" what necessities there were to make it drop below 9999.

I can understand a need for a recommendation from me however, as I created it lol.
Basically:
NO LB = For people who wants a challange.
LB = For a more casual approach (but still hard endgame).

With LB, there is a point where you basically can curbstomb any enemy. As they still deal less than 9999 and you doing 10 000+ with more than 10 000 HP. But, as mentioned above, the endgame(ish) will still be hard as the enemy damage ratio increase. Still with LB, this mod is meant for the FF7 veteran type of players. Doing a "lets play" will be frustrating in any case I think.

If you made it to the last bosses and Omega without LB, I would suggest trying with LB if you're stuck. No shame in that. Safer is, admittingly, extremely hard without LB. I have only beaten him a few times without LB myself. One good trick (but hard to do), is to cary over Omislash from Bizz, and mime it as much as you can before Cloud dies. Cloud will eventually die unless you are extremely lucky. Finally finish him of with KOTR.

And just for fun: A find a fun strat vs Bizz is Vincent's final limit break + 4 Hero Drinks. And hope for no crits (crit = instant kill).

Finally, as most people probably not are FF7 nerds, LB would be recommended. I'll see if I can include it in the OP. Just need a good way to word it.
 
Yeah I tried soo many strats its unheard of like seriously omega knows me by name at this point. I have tried and the amount of more tries just makes me cry. Omega is just that annoying for me personally I just want to strangle the damn guy. Breaking the damage limit is definitely more casual and I honestly only did it once or twice on omega just to for the hell of it and that got me nowhere lol.
 
Hello, i cant to patch a battle.lpg with Unshaded models 1.64.
I have a PC version of game.
Problem in patching of battle.lpg file. It stoped on 67%. Who anybody had same problem? I tried on several computers and it not helps. My main PC with 12 Gb RAM + 20 Gb swap file.

Settings:
2014-08-14_2148.png


I want to play in FF7 with cool models and hard mode  :cry:
 
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have you tried doing it in reverse order? 1st patch this mod on an original file, then patch with the other (the model one).

I see you also have the ff7.exe checked. Try without.

It may be a problem if the other mod add some files to battle lgp, but the patch is supposed to work around that.
 
have you tried doing it in reverse order? 1st patch this mod on an original file, then patch with the other (the model one).

I see you also have the ff7.exe checked. Try without.

It may be a problem if the other mod add some files to battle lgp, but the patch is supposed to work around that.
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Hello :)  my problem was is solved by other way.
I patched game with hardcore mode without hd models. Then i launched my game via 7thHeaven software + Models pack. This works fine :)
 
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