[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

[DLPB_]

kaldarasha's animation fix for Heidegger is pretty good.  Just Barrett's running animation that's still poor.

 

[Green_goblin]

I just uploaded the new PSX patch, in case any of you are interested:

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=19709.0

Now the PSX game is synchronyzed with the PC version.

Regards

 

[Kaldarasha]

kaldarasha's animation fix for Heidegger is pretty good.

Well thanks, but...

 

[DLPB_]

hMMMM I wonder who it was then

 

[DLPB_]

I've abandoned adding 2 columns to summon and item battle submenu.  It's not impossible... it's just a load of messing about.  The Japanese game came with 2 columns for items and when they removed it from English version and recompiled, it took the needed code out.  You can add it back in (by observing the code used for adding columns in magic and enemy skill) but it's annoying and time consuming. There's probably a way to simplify it a little but it means putting work in for little reward.

 

[yykk]

I only just discovered this mod recently and I am really loving it. A big thank you to all who put their effort into this mod :lol: Especially the re-translation, which I feel makes a huge difference to the game(in a very positive way of course). The dialogue now feels a lot more coherent and it's awesome.

Also, just a small question, I did read the readme which says that the mod can be reinstalled as many times as needed, so just to confirm, if I want to update the mod( I have R04b installed, want to install 04c) I can just download and install R04c over R04b? Do I have to remove my currently installed R04b before installing newer versions, or start a new save before starting the game again or something?

Once again, thank you and keep up the good work  :lol:

 

[DLPB_]

It will use the backup files from the backup folder it creates.  Even if it didnt R0b to c can't cause any issues.

 

[CladInShadows]

Hi,

I downloaded the Reunion for the Beacause mod and I'm loving it so far, but have a single question. The only option i ticked during install was the "series canon" because I want the story text fixed up but would like to remain consistent with my other Final Fantasy games.

Anyway, the adjusted spell names "Poison Null" and "Status Null" are really sticking out. The original names "Poisona" and "Esuna" I'd think would be considered canon in the same way that "Phoenix Down" is - they appear in almost every Final Fantasy game including those with much more faithful translations. I'm curious as to what criteria you used to decide what would be included in the "series canon" option and what wouldn't?

Thanks!

 

[DLPB_]

Poisona and Esuna are nonsensical. They are not words, and they're only there because the original localization team in early FF did not realize "na" was meant to be the negative - or that Esu was the letter S.  It's a very unprofessional localization that doesn't correct that. Looking around, it seems Esuna has somehow survived - but not in this relocalization it won't. One of the things that annoys me most is not changing something that's clearly wrong, simply because the mistake has become well known. It grates me.

Esuna = S-na = Status Na = Status Null.

In early ff titles there was a space limit of 4 chars.  The only alternatives I would consider are "S-Null" and "P-Null" (although, if I were free to do as I pleased [I'm not - as it isn't my work], I'd probably find better words entirely).  I've used the longer versions because there is no longer any space limit.  Similarly "Confu" became Confuse, as it did in FF8 and beyond. Poiso-na became Poison Null.

When new touphScript is released, you'll be able to manually change the spells.  I am not ever adding any other options or work arounds.  The whole point of the retranslation project is to retranslate - and I think I've added enough concessions already, especially with character names.

The criteria is as follows: 

 Is the name as it is due to an error in any previous localization or a because of a space limit?  If yes, chances are very high that it gets changed regardless of canon.  There are only very few exceptions to this and for those to be true every single FF title after FF3 has to adhere to the same spelling AND be a localization that makes sense.

The non dialogue is finalized.

I appreciate that you see the new names as a little annoying, but you;d find them far more annoying if they were originally "Status Null" Poison Null" and I decided to just come up with Esuna and Poisona.  You'd think I was on crack

I really don't buy in any, way, shape, or form the argument that because a mistake has been given the green light that it's ok. It's a terrible decision to make in most cases.  If they had just corrected much of this for FF8, today no one would bat an eye lid.  S-Na is also known as "Clear" in some FFs... a much better name.

 

[Shasta McNasty]

I've very slowly been playing through the game and I noticed some other dialogue issues that I thought should be mentioned:

1) In the beginner's hall on the second floor of the weapons shop outside Tifa's bar, when you talk to the muscle men about status ailments, these explanations appear:

Anger
Double damage.  Accuracy is reduced.  A Tranquilizer will restore you to normal.

Sadness
Damage is reduced.  A Stimulant will restore you to normal.

The thing with these is, it isn't clear whether that means "double damage inflicted on enemies" for Anger and "damage inflicted on enemies reduced" for Sadness, or whether it means "double damage inflicted on party members" for Anger and "damage inflicted on party members reduced" for Sadness.  I never actually stopped to figure out how Fury and Sadness worked when I first played the original game in the 90's other than changing how quickly your limit bar filled, so I'm actually confused about the meaning myself, as probably would anyone just picking up the game for the first time or who also doesn't fully understand its mechanics.  I ASSUME the dialogue means damage inflicted on your party is changed because doubling the damage inflicted on enemies for free for as long as you want to keep that status on your party seems pretty unbalanced, but I think a lot of players out there wouldn't necessarily be able to easily suss that out.

2) Here's an issue with the American English language option: After you jump off the train on the way to bomb District 5's Mako reactor, you come across an air duct near the security lasers that you have to jump down into.  After looking down into it, Barrett eventually says "This is no time to mess about.  Never know when Shin-Ra'll turn up."  Americans don't say "mess about," we say "mess around" or "screw around."  I can see how it would be easy for a native British person to miss, but no American would ever talk that way and especially not someone who talks the way Barrett does.

3) Here's a potential issue with the American English language option: When trapped by Shin-Ra soldiers after setting the bomb on Reactor 5, President Shinra shows up and refers to Avalanche as a "rabble."  This is just a postulation and I'm not 100% certain about this, but I don't think Americans really use the word "rabble."  I've heard "rabble rousers," which means something different, but not "rabble" by itself.  That could just be because I'm not a big book reader and therefore haven't encountered that usage in higher-brow literature, but I have never ever heard someone use the word "rabble" by itself in conversation or on paper before.  It seemed strange that Barrett would immediately understand what that word meant too, since his vocabulary is a lot more brusque than the other characters'.

 

[obesebear]

I have to agree with mess about.  Mess or screw around is a much more common phrase.

I've heard rabble used before.  It basically refers to someone inferior and a nuisance.

 

[Shasta McNasty]

Oh and by the way, I was hoping to put forth a brief request, and feel free to shoot this down if you don't agree.. but just like you recently added the option to keep the Limit bars the same color as they were in the original (which was an awesome option to add by the way, thanks for that  ), do you think you could consider adding the option to make the boxes surrounding the attack names and battle messages (like “couldn’t steal”) go almost all the way across the screen like in the original?  Something feels off somehow about having those messages boxes only as long as the messages they contain; it feels very weird somehow, it's one of those little things that stick out, like the limit bars.

 

[WatashiWaZero]

**Just installed Reunion for the first time, on a fresh install no less.

When you speak to Biggs for the first time after starting a new game, he says:

"Wow...
  You're from Soldier all right!"

When it should be:

"Wow...
  You're from Soldier, all right!"

The comma is missing after Soldier, which makes the sentence flows poorly.  Also, this could be reworded to:

"Wow...
  Sweet!!  You're from Soldier!"

I assume that in this scene, Biggs is trying to express his excitement for having a member of Soldier with the team on the mission.  The reword, in my opinion, is more in line with how the younger, more casual American generation speaks.

Second error is when you speak to Barrett for the second time after you run across the inverted T bridge into the area where you can obtain the Phoenix Tail.
I don't remember how the phrase went exactly, but it's when he's lecturing Cloud about what Shin-Ra is doing to the planet.  During this time, the "and" he uses in the conversation is cut short to " An' ".  Later when you go into the elevator, he says:

"The reactors are slowly
  drainin' away the planet's life.
  And one day... that'll be that."

TLDR, there's an inconsistency with word choice in his speech.

Also, last tidbit, when Barrett appears for the first time in the game,  he yells at the group for moving in one, single group.  He says something along the lines of:

"What are you all doin'?"

Maybe it can be:

"What are y'all doin'?"


Edit#1:
http://imgur.com/Es64Iht

Seat sticking out of model.


Edit#2:
When she's showing Cloud the model of Midgar, she says:

"This is a frame model
  of the Mako City, Midgar."

frame -> wireframe????

Since the picture you see on the screen is technically a wireframe model.


Edit#3:
When you first meet Tifa in the bar, Marin runs away, and Tifa says this to her:

"Well, if it isn't li'l' Marin!
  Aren't you going to say
  hello to Cloud?"

There's double apostrophes for "lil".  I'm assuming it's suppose to be " lil' ".


Edit#4:
When you receive your payment for the mission, Cloud tells him to double the next payment up to 3000, but is actually spelled out during the conversation.  Barrett replies with a number.  For consistency sake, since the message also says 1500 Gil when he pays you, and that Barrett's dialogue also displays a number, shouldn't Cloud's dialogue also display a number instead of the word "three thousand"?


Edit#5:
After you wake up from sleeping at Tifa's bar, Barrett tells you the next target.  In the dialogue, the words "Mako Reactor 5" has skyblue font, but during the first mission, he says the exact line with the exception of the number:

"Our target's Mako Reactor 1."

However, during the bombing mission, those words weren't skyblue.  Intentional?


Edit#6:
The guy who is walking back and forth in the store to the right of Tifa's bar tells Cloud that he looks like crap, and then gives Cloud three options to choose from.  One of the options being:

"Don't give him a bean"

Nobody uses that.  Would rather see:

"Don't give him anything"  or "Don't give him any money/gil"


Edit#7:
http://imgur.com/8z8iDg4

Intentional?

 

[Sega Chief]

I've very slowly been playing through the game and I noticed some other dialogue issues that I thought should be mentioned:

1) In the beginner's hall on the second floor of the weapons shop outside Tifa's bar, when you talk to the muscle men about status ailments, these explanations appear:

Anger
Double damage.  Accuracy is reduced.  A Tranquilizer will restore you to normal.

Sadness
Damage is reduced.  A Stimulant will restore you to normal.

The thing with these is, it isn't clear whether that means "double damage inflicted on enemies" for Anger and "damage inflicted on enemies reduced" for Sadness, or whether it means "double damage inflicted on party members" for Anger and "damage inflicted on party members reduced" for Sadness.  I never actually stopped to figure out how Fury and Sadness worked when I first played the original game in the 90's other than changing how quickly your limit bar filled, so I'm actually confused about the meaning myself, as probably would anyone just picking up the game for the first time or who also doesn't fully understand its mechanics.  I ASSUME the dialogue means damage inflicted on your party is changed because doubling the damage inflicted on enemies for free for as long as you want to keep that status on your party seems pretty unbalanced, but I think a lot of players out there wouldn't necessarily be able to easily suss that out.

Unless DLPB has changed the way Fury works in this, the default effects of Sadness and Fury are:

Sadness: 30% reduction to physical/magical damage taken (doesn't reduce fixed damage/%-based attacks), slows Limit gauge.

Fury: Reduction of 30% in hit% for character's physical/magical attacks, accelerates the afflicted character's limit gauge.

So with Sadness you're trading Limit Break output for some extra damage mitigation (and 30% is pretty OP when stacked with the other forms like Barriers, Back Row, and Defend; again assuming that these mechanics haven't been changed here). While with Fury you're getting a lot more Limit Breaks but will miss more often with regular physical/magical attacks.

If the effect was changed for Reunion, then I'd assume it'll be your afflicted character that's taking double damage. Best get that Esuna'd off- ah, I mean Status Nulled ASAP :I

 

[brainsolo]

Here to express my gratitude to DLPB, Luksy, and others for the retranslation I've always wanted my girlfriend to experience FFVII, and now she can actually understand what's going on (unlike me when it first came out, lol)!

About the current discussion on corrections:

I have to agree with mess about.

Thirded. "Mess about" is a very British saying, at least to Americans

Anger/Sadness/

While I agree that it's unclear, I think the important question is, "If the original Japanese doesn't specify whom is taking extra damage, should translators 'fix' that?" Due to the nature of this mod being a pure translation, I would assume not.

"rabble."

"Rabble" is fine to me, but that's coming from an avid reader of fantasy books, so...

"Wow...
  You're from Soldier all right!"

When it should be:

"Wow...
  You're from Soldier, all right!"

The comma is missing after Soldier, which makes the sentence flows poorly.  Also, this could be reworded to:

"Wow...
  Sweet!!  You're from Soldier!"

I agree with the comma (which is a little nitpicky) but not with the suggested correction, as I think it's supposed to be more of a, "Wow... From what I have just seen, I suppose you are indeed from Soldier!"

"Don't give him a bean"

Nobody uses that.

Seconded, never heard that turn of phrase before.

 

[DLPB_]

Anger
Double damage.  Accuracy is reduced.  A Tranquilizer will restore you to normal.

Sadness
Damage is reduced.  A Stimulant will restore you to normal.

The thing with these is, it isn't clear whether that means "double damage inflicted on enemies" for Anger and "damage inflicted on enemies reduced" for Sadness, or whether it means "double damage inflicted on party members" for Anger and "damage inflicted on party members reduced" for Sadness.  I never actually stopped to figure out how Fury and Sadness worked when I first played the original game in the 90's other than changing how quickly your limit bar filled, so I'm actually confused about the meaning myself, as probably would anyone just picking up the game for the first time or who also doesn't fully understand its mechanics.  I ASSUME the dialogue means damage inflicted on your party is changed because doubling the damage inflicted on enemies for free for as long as you want to keep that status on your party seems pretty unbalanced, but I think a lot of players out there wouldn't necessarily be able to easily suss that out.

It means double damage against enemies, and reduced damage for ally. If double damage is wrong, then this is a mistake in the original Japanese text and I can correct it.  I'll also make these lines clearer, because you're right that they totally aren't clear.

Americans don't say "mess about," we say "mess around" or "screw around."  I can see how it would be easy for a native British person to miss, but no American would ever talk that way and especially not someone who talks the way Barrett does.

Covarr probably missed that one.  I'll change it to screw around and do a search for any other "mess about" and add it to the American option.

3) Here's a potential issue with the American English language option: When trapped by Shin-Ra soldiers after setting the bomb on Reactor 5, President Shinra shows up and refers to Avalanche as a "rabble." 

I'd not change this one, even if American's didn't use it - because as someone else notes, it's common elsewhere, and something that gives FF7 some flavour.  Removing all the things an American/Briton may or may not get would dilute the game imho.  Plus, Rabble is fine.   ;D

Something feels off somehow about having those messages boxes only as long as the messages they contain; it feels very weird somehow, it's one of those little things that stick out, like the limit bars.

The answer is no, especially considering this is how the original Japanese game works.  

"Wow...
  You're from Soldier, all right!"

I did discuss this with Covarr, I'm pretty sure.  But he must had told me it was optional (and I think it is).  In any case, the grammar checks and comma checks may as well wait until this project has been finalized - which is in the next few months as I go through the game.  You'll be finding a lot of comma issues until then. I'll add comma issues to the bugtracker.  Basically, keep telling me if you spot American issues or spelling issues, but not grammar issues.

frame -> wireframe?

I'll check, but you could be right.

TLDR, there's an inconsistency with word choice in his speech.

No inconsistency.  Character's don't have to always use the same words or the same quirks.  It depends on flow or how well I think it works in the sentence.

Seat sticking out of model.

How the game works, sadly.  But I guess we could move the model further back.

When you receive your payment for the mission, Cloud tells him to double the next payment up to 3000, but is actually spelled out during the conversation.  Barrett replies with a number.  For consistency sake, since the message also says 1500 Gil when he pays you, and that Barrett's dialogue also displays a number, shouldn't Cloud's dialogue also display a number instead of the word "three thousand"

Possibly. The obtained message is a standard message, though - whereas his is dialogue.  I think I changed it to words because it looked really weird just seeing "3000" by cloud.

There's double apostrophes for "lil".  I'm assuming it's suppose to be " lil' ".

Nope.  It's one of the standards for writing "little".  You can also use "li'l".

However, during the bombing mission, those words weren't skyblue.  Intentional?

Yeah, it's how the Japanese writers wanted to remind you of where you are going.  It didn't matter at start of the game because you were there already pretty much.  It wasn't as necessary to exposition.  Although, I think the blue here is a waste of time, too.

"Don't give him a bean"

Nobody uses that.  Would rather see:

That was again adding  a bit of diversity on my part - although perhaps the phrase is British or even local to parts of Britain. 

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bean

If I were writing a book, of course, I'd not be changing any of this   But, clearly, for this project, I have to consider the wider audience.  I'll amend it, even for the British version.  I suppose it does seem out of place.

Edit#7:
http://imgur.com/8z8iDg4

Intentional?

That's a dialogue box issue, already noted on the Bug Tracker. That one has been noted already and fixed for R03d (and possibly was for R03c?)

@Sega Chief.  If that's so - I will amend the information to "one third".  Clearly, this is an error with the original Japanese text.  No changes are made to difficulty unless Weapon is selected.  And, so far, that's limited to Minigames.

It seemed strange that Barrett would immediately understand what that word meant too, since his vocabulary is a lot more brusque than the other characters'.

It's how fiction works and a limitation of it in regards to most stories, at least.  Ever watched things like the Simpons, where Bart is coming out with words, phrases, and information that no kid his age could possibly know? 

Due to the nature of this mod being a pure translation, I would assume not.

#

This mod is not pure translation   If it were, you wouldn't see "Don't give him a bean" "your face looks like a Chocobo's ass" or the fact I corrected "tickle its belly button" in the Japanese text, regarding chocobos.  I am more than happy to fix issues or make something better, but within the confines of the original facts, as long as those facts are not themselves mistakes in the Japanese text or too ambiguous when they weren't supposed to be.  It's a balancing act, but I do have a personal code of conduct.  I won't change anything I feel the Japanese authors would be annoyed at - for example.  I do my best, anyway.

 

[Shasta McNasty]

"your face looks like a Chocobo's ass"

Had a feeling that wasn't in the original Japanese.. 

 

[DLPB_]

Had a feeling that wasn't in the original Japanese.. 

The Japanese is something like "Wash your face", if I recall .  But it's some kind of weird Japanese insult.  It doesn't mean that Cloud's face is dirty.  I may be mixing the line up, but there's definitely a "wash your face" line in the Japanese at that map.

 

[Ver Greeneyes]

Yeah, it's how the Japanese writers wanted to remind you of where you are going.  It didn't matter at start of the game because you were there already pretty much.  It wasn't as necessary to exposition.  Although, I think the blue here is a waste of time, too.

This kind of text highlighting is a pet peeve of mine - it's so infantilizing. For instance, I like Okami, but the text highlighting - along with over explaining everything in general - really reduced my enjoyment of the game. IMO text highlighting should be reserved for tutorials: if the player misses a word because they aren't paying attention, it's their own damn fault ;D

 

[Covarr]

I always thought it was particularly dumb in games that are so linear that's where you have to go anyway. It's okay to mention it in regular-colored dialogue when we don't have any choice but to go to to Mako Reactor 1 anyway. It's not like we're gonna somehow get lost between Sector 7 Slums and Mako Reactor 1 and accidentally find ourselves in Rocket Town or something.

Just imagine if platformers and other such games tried to pull this. "Thank you, Mario! But our princess is in another castle! Try looking in the World 2-4 Castle!"