[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

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sorry if this has been asked before, but is the rename for cover materia to protect materia intentional and the menu option from order to form intentional and is there anyway to undo the changes? it took me a while to figure out what it was to change the rows, for the menu it would be better to us either column, row or it original wording order, also phoenix down is changed to phoenix tail. there is most likely others that I've now come across yet, but the rewording also makes it hard to follow game guides for those that like to collect everything.

ok, i found that the phoenix down rename can be sorted by using the series canon option, but I can't find a way to change the form back to order and protect materia back to cover materia
 
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There isn't an option. This is a retranslation project.

You'll have to use the tools on this forum to do it manually.
 
what exactly does a retranslation project entail? also i believe the use of form for sorting out the character positions is translated wrongly, also sadly i don't have the confidence to trial and error by myself so that i can fix the language translations.
 
You can't reply in a retranslation project that something is "translated wrongly" without saying why or how. It just sounds like a baseless complain to something you don't like.
 
it the english defination of form, it has nothing to do with what the effect is in game, to make it correct, you'd need to change form to formation
 
don't mean to be rude but the Japanese to English needs to be double checked for the translations, specially as it states accurate translation which it isn't, a quick double check using google translator gives you many options and definition of what each possible translation can mean, as i read what i am typing i feel like a jackass, but when stating accurate and professional with wrong wording like that i can't help but mention it.
 
Yes, it is accurate.

No, you haven't read the main post nor the Reunion Database.

No, I am not changing everything and superseding 2 Japanese speakers [actually, 4 when it comes to the retranslation of items] and myself just because you're unhappy with certain changes.

And, finally, Google Translate?  Honestly.  ;D  By your logic, Tifa still owns a shop.

I've told you what your option is.

And if anyone is wondering why I tackled this initially in the way I did - the answer is that I saw this endgame coming from the first sentence.
 
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please explain to me how form is accurate in that usage? in it verb sense and noun when converted to English it is wrong.

just so you know a marriage registration is a form, the positioning of characters on a shogi board, checkers or chess is a formation, the context for form is incorrect, i'm a native British speaker feel free to get a second opinion by a native American speaker, all in all, from what i have played of the mod it is amazing work, I'm looking forward to the final product and i did read the first page i even hunted down the original forum post for beacause and downloaded that version read the text file that was in that to find out that the series canon effects the items names.
I also only mentioned the materia naming for cover being changed to protect in case it was a over look and missed as protect in previous games of final fantasy reduced physical damage, whilst cover took damage in place of another character, which has been the case since final fantasy 3 onwards, which i would of classed as a series canon by now for naming sense
 
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Rudeness of ouchie0kids aside, I think the entry for "form" does deserve a little conversation.  And since it's highlighted in green, that's ok right?

With all due respect (i.e. your years of work on this mod and the expertise in your team), here are my thoughts:

"Formation" is MUCH better than "Order"
"Order" is marginally better than the shortened version "Form"

Speaking as an end-user, if I see "Formation" in the menu I intuitively know I'm adjusting the formation of my characters.  The word by itself perfectly describes what the menu item does. it's reasonable to think anything related to my team's formation happens with this menu item.

Now the original word "Order" is more vague to me.  What am I changing the order of?  Or am I ordering (i.e. commanding) something?  Once you select the "Order" menu item, the cursor goes to the characters which leaves you thinking "Oh, I guess I can change the order of my characters".  But even at that point you have no way of knowing you can change characters to the front or back row, because the word "Order" relates to the sequential order of things (1,2,3).

But "Form" is even more vague.  I don't see the word "Form" and immediately think "Oh, that's the shortened version of Formation".  And the english word "Form" does not make me think of anything related to managing the formation of my team.  If I selected the menu item for "Form" and it landed on a character I'd think "Ok, I guess I can now fill out some kind of form for Cloud if I select him?"

tl;dr - "Formation" is good, but "Form" may not be the best way to shorten it. I'm not saying to keep the original word "Order", but maybe there's a better translation here that also fits in the menu?
 
Form is generally used to reference shape or layout "form the clay, THIS ISN'T EVEN MY FINAL FORM, Form up maggots!"

Combine that with critical thinking of "there is no way that this option makes me fill out paper work in the menu" and the use of Form naturally makes sense from a language choice. It means exactly what the option does in game.
Formation would be more clear, but that would stretch the size of the menu box which would mess up other part and thinking about, or just pressing the button, would instantly allow you to understand what the option does.

And before anyone tries to use the "first time player" counter argument for clarity it is irrelevant in this case as they would not know the actual function of it in either case and therefore have no impact on their play experience.
 
Combine that with critical thinking of "there is no way that this option makes me fill out paper work in the menu"...
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Ok, fair point :P

BUT!
Form is generally used to reference shape or layout "form the clay, THIS ISN'T EVEN MY FINAL FORM, Form up maggots!"
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Your first two examples implies "Form" is generally used to change a single character, as opposed to your entire team.  And I think other people would think the same thing (e.g. "What's 'Form' do?  Oh, now cloud is selected.  CAN I CHANGE CLOUD TO HIS FINAL FORM!?").  Ok, all my examples are terrible, but my point is that "Form" doesn't communicate you're performing an action on the team.

But I agree with you that pressing the button would allow anyone to very quickly understand the purpose of the menu item.  "Form" works fine.  And if "Formation" fit we wouldn't be having this conversation.  But I'm not sure the shortened version (i.e. "Form") is a better name for the menu option than "Order".

Anyway, that's my two cents.  I'm going to stop https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bikeshedding now and get back to lurking...
 
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9 years in the making of the mod is a very well deserved respect and i apologise that i came a cross as rude, It was never my intention, It just English language is a pain, i'm going to be honest, only reason i can read now is because of this game, i had no interest in letters they just looked like a load of scribble on paper when i was younger, the art and story of what was going on in final fantasy i wanted to know what the characters were saying. so yeah i can guess i was defensive on the subject, I also just got done reading the interview Burke did, which was very enlightening.

also yes that is correct UpRising, but as you stated formation is a very long word, which is why i believe they chose to go with order when they ported it in English, as Form has multiple meanings it can cause trouble for those that don't know English very well, but i also believe the choice of picking order was to make translating it to other countries slightly easier, as i believe the game was translated from Japanese to English, then from English to German, French etc

also thank you bigsassy for what you have put, you explained things much better then i could ever do so is very helpful for me
 
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Formation > Order > Form
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I haven't done any hacking on FF7, but living next door to Demiforce while he was working on FF2j, one of the things that repeatedly came up (usually with him bursting through my dorm room door ala Kramer on "Seinfeld") was character space limitations getting in the way.  Trying to faithfully translate something like "Death Knight" which required only three or four kanji simply didn't work.  The same issue almost certainly plays a role here... "Materia" is seven characters, and is the widest option on the menu.  Widening that block to fit "Formation" (nine characters) would probably start crowding out the level and limit bars, so then it becomes a question of how to shorten.  Being an adventure/combat game, the term "Order" makes me think "Order of Battle," making it a fitting option.  "Form" on the other hand conjures up images of Vincent's various limit breaks.

Google translate
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Hah!  Wifey (who is not a native English speaker) and I often amuse ourselves with its feeble attempts at idiomatic speech.
 
Let's clear some things up

1. 9 years is a bit of a misnomer - as much of that time has been filled with long gaps of inactivity as Japanese speakers have lives to lead and thus it's been an on-going process.

2. The "Form v Formation" thing, as others have pointed out, is entirely due to space considerations (the menu looks CRAP having "Formation") .  The very idea you can't learn the odd new word or phrase in a menu is ridiculous.  Also, Order is used on another menu.  I have been very careful and consistent. Do you not imagine that in 9 years I haven't triple and quadruple checked this - and discussed it ad nauseam with the end user?

3. That query and every other query in the last 2 days has been raised before.  It's the reason I specifically do not accept any feedback on non dialogue (and even dialogue feedback is out of the question given I get feedback from Charlie Beer, Luksy, and Covarr - and we'd be here for 1000 years if I started allowing that).  With any professionally made game, you do not have a direct dial up to the author to air your gripes and demand things be changed.

This retranslation is going to be no different from this point on. The only people I will be accepting feedback from are Covarr, Luksy, Charlie Beer, Green Goblin, and Caledor. These people are directly associated with this project.  Although there are a few people on my own discord server that I'd happily discuss issues with.

This thread is not here to ask for changes, or demand changes, or air gripes.  It's here for things that are genuine mistakes.  Spelling mistakes would be considered a bug, for example - as it is factually a mistake - not a preference.

Items in Green (but especially red) in The Reunion Database are up for discussion - IF you have some evidence they are wrong.

tl;dr  This thread is not a wish list and I am long long past accepting requests.

On the plus side, R06 allows the executable (menu) text to be changed from a simple text document in realtime - along with box width changes - so you can do it yourself. I slaved away, so you can come here bitching.
 
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Every time I look at this forum to check on the Reunion's progress, I am also nervous that one too many people are going to be rude or demanding of you and you're just going to say "Forget it, I'm only releasing this to the people who have worked on it!" I wouldn't blame you, actually. It must get tedious responding to (or even just reading) questions from people who are jumping in at the tail end and clearly haven't tried to learn anything about the project by just, ya know, reading the actual thread they are replying to. They can't be bothered to read a thread but you are supposed to put in all the time you have, gratis, and continue to answer the same questions over and over again. How do you do it? And why? :)
 
There's no danger of that - but I think I am going to have to put a statement on main post explaining the reason why people may be being ignored.

I've got a lot of patience and dedication - but clearly diplomacy is long gone with certain queries.  R06 isn't too far away.   8)
 
Items in Green (but especially red) in The Reunion Database are up for discussion - IF you have some evidence they are wrong.
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One last thing, then.  You should change the color on the "Form" entry from green to something that shows it's not up for discussion.
 
One last thing, then.  You should change the color on the "Form" entry from green to something that shows it's not up for discussion.
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It's never been in green.  It's always been in White.

Additionally, it even tells you why it's been cut short:

たいけい   "Lit. Battle Formation
[Cut due to space limit]"   Form
 
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When I looked at the spreadsheet entry yesterday before posting it was highlighted green for me.  It's the only reason why I waded into the conversation.  It was a different shade of green, so maybe someone else reading the spreadsheet had highlighted it by selecting the cells?

Anyway, my mistake and my bad :-[

And thanks for all the work on this.  I'm really looking forward to R06.
 
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