[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.999992)

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So I updated and went through the Dark Cave again. Found a couple more issues but by and large, it seems to be good to go. Again, I'll put it under the shroud of spoilers for those that haven't played through it yet. Here's the report and an opinion piece:


- The timer during the reactor escape doesn't work anymore. It stays at 00:00 even after the bomb is planted. Also, because of this, battles that are entered end immediately with nothing happening. No EXP or Gil rewarded. No commands can be entered. The "boss" is the same thing, instant win. Also, I am not sure what happens if you just sit and wait ten minutes to see if it explodes(I wasn't brave enough to test). I think this happened because of the report I mentioned earlier about the first save point not being fully visible with all those windows being up? There's a bug further down that has a similar issue.

- To be clear, there is NOT supposed to be a boss guarding Aeris correct? Other then Yuffie, who for obvious reasons doesn't, Aeris is the only other team member that doesn't. Is the Mystery Man it?

- The Armour Keeper fight needs to be looked at for one specific reason, and maybe one subjective reason:

[Specific] - For some reason, Red XIII is a 4th party member in this fight? Not sure why? Shouldn't it be Cid?

[Subjective] - He seems to be pretty, uhhh... weak. All of his hits were doing 1 damage. I think I understand what the theme of the fight is, with "Guard Break" lowering defenses and all that, but someone with Cover, like Barret for example, can completely negate this fight.

(Onto the opinion piece from me here, but I think Barret or anyone with high Vitality in the back row using Cover may need to be looked at in regards to balance issues. This really struck home with me during the Armour Keeper fight. It seems to be TOO effective at negating physical attacks. Magic damage doesn't have a way to just be cut in half like physical attacks do by doing something as simple as moving someone to the back row. I know elements can be negated and even absorbed, but what about non-elemental? Besides which, there are so many more forms of magic attacks that guarding against them all is impossible, while every enemy in the game can just attack. Seems to be a little one sided to me.

While I would never suggest removing the back row damage reduction mechanic, what I think could use a discussion on is the Cover materia itself. Maybe make it so Cover has a VERY heavy vitality reduction attached to it, a percentage perhaps? That way it can it stay evened out throughout the game. Maybe have it only absorb half the blow while the other half still goes through to the intended target, if things like that are even possible?

I'm sure you could think of something, if you even think this is a balance issue at all that is. There is certainly something to be said about leaving it up to the player to decide if they want to use this tactic or not. I know as it stands right now though, on my next playthrough, I won't use it. I think it's too strong personally.

Anyways, that's my two cents, back to bugs...)

- Typhon has misleading text in his description. It says that it deals Wind Damage but the Gold text under his name is Gravity. Junctioning Elemental with Typhon and going to the Status menu also gives you Gravity elemental.

- After defeating Mirage and with the 20 minute escape timer going, using the save point closest to Justice(Near the church) makes the timer and save window go all screwy again.

- Justice doesn't have boss music, intentional or no?

-- And to end on some rather small nitpicky stuff --

- Camera angles on a few fights are a little wonky (Kotch, the three soilders before Amalgam).

- The "Golden Shiny Rope of Hope" or whatever the hell Barret calls it is invisible on the climb down during the escape after Mirage. Sure makes for an interesting visual though!

- The Turtle's Paradise Poster in the kid's room by Aeris' house has some custom text, the one in Shinra HQ does not.

- The hole in Don Corneo's mansion that leads to the sewers can be glitched by not jumping on the prompt then simply walking over it. Looks funny to see Cloud standing over a gaping hole! Also when you jump down, you can move around for 1 or two seconds before the game simulates you jumping down the hole like you normally do at the start of the game. Also looks funny.

-- Yeah, like I said, small nitpicky stuff --


I think that's about it in regards to bugs and/or problems that are going to be found in there. Never say never off course, but both times I went through this thing, I went in there with the sole intention of breaking it as much as I could. Seems to be very stable now other then the couple of issues I raised.


EDIT: Forgot one thing, is Cloud's innate information in the readme's that come with the install package? I couldn't find the info on it.

EDIT #2: Forgot another thing, when I went through the Dark Cave the first time, I got the Black Materia as a prize. This time I did not, was it removed or is this a bug? (Not in the spoiler section because that has been in the documentation since 1.4 launched)
 
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So I updated and went through the Dark Cave again. Found a couple more issues but by and large, it seems to be good to go. Again, I'll put it under the shroud of spoilers for those that haven't played through it yet. Here's the report and an opinion piece:
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I'll go through these and get them sorted out. Working tonight though so it won't be until tomorrow.

thank you for the mods bro
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No prob, bud
 
This is a default game bug; after beating Schizo, any encounter on that screen will also have the no-escape flag. I'm going to try a couple of things to fix it because a few people have ran afoul of an unescapable Gaea Dragon after beating the boss.
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Eh I didn't even know that, and I finished this game so many times before :-o

So I'll just equip that materia and wish no ennemies attack after the boss battle..

Thanks for your answer
 
My Carmine Weapon isn't spawning with its eyes nor do they spawn/awaken mid-fight (then again it was only 3 min ingame time). Latest patch (yesterday).

While we're at it, my feedback/random thoughts about the mod now that i've played most of it:

- Magic vs Attack

I understand that the point of magic being superior because it costs MP, but right now Attack is simply too far behind during the main game. It can only relatively catch up before the transition to the tier 2 and tier 3 spells and only with elemental equipped, aside from the 1 to 3 cases where you get a weapon that is clearly ahead of the curve. Late game you even get Contain and Comet (maybe MP Turbo and MP absorb too, can't remember) through the main story while you probably have to grind for mug, 2x-cut is behind aditional content that you're not sure when you should fight so i imagine it's easy for people to ignore it until they unlock the limit 4 sidequests (even then i imagine it's too annoying to fight Cait-Sith Tank without several Added Effects).

I'd say up to Corel/Gongaga it's fine both on regular fights and boss fights given enemies HP and your MP pool, but after that enemies get too much HP compared to the physical damage output, Elemental materia becomes a double-edge sword, mostly because virtually every area having both  flying and heavy enemies, those two points combined also makes gravity heavily outshine Attack (doesn't require any M.Atk stat) and for last your MP getting high enough that you can go through one save point to another without wasting your entire mana. On disc 2 and 3 i fought most story bosses with 2 mages and was required just a few osmoses/ethers before the fight was over, and it was definitely worth over Attack or Deathblow+Added Cut. Even the endgame sidequests probably requires at the very worst 2 turbo ethers.

By endgame you can farm turbo ethers on the pots if you ever need and get W-Magic almost for free, as if Contain wasn't already overkill by itself. Meanwhile if you want your attack to catch up you have search for the material through several sidequests and deal with the annoyance of morphing material for the ultimate weapon. I may sound pissed, but it's just my way of getting my point clear, so sorry if i sound agressive.

- Buffs/Debuffs/Counters/Tank and Spank

You have played BNW, so this makes things easier. What i find interesting about BNW is that bosses have a chance to counter specific commands/spells and will buff/debuff/dispel based on a global combat timer (and not their turn), which is something it lacks here. I only found counters to Limit Break on Northern Cave and Deathblow on the Reno and Rude fight on Gelnika It makes combats more interesting because it requires some degree of decision making. On Brave New World you can have the right pieces put together and still die because you went greedy, took the wrong decision or straight up got bad RNG, which is relatively rare, but it's entertaining and makes battles intense. On New Threat you can simply Haste+All, Barrier+All and Slow (if the boss isn't immune) and instawin most story bosses just through good old tank and spank, using the strongest attacks and healing when low on HP (god bless white wind, by the way) like on "any" vanilla Final Fantasy. The only ones that i felt actually threatened by death even with the right setup were Curator and Abyss (my setup probably wasn't the greatest, but it wasn't bad either), which i felt was on a whole new level compared to the bosses found on the other paths, then again the Ribbon reward is probably the reason.

On the other hand NT is much more challenging on the preparation to fight and figuring out the proper setup, it really feels like a puzzle game, specially at end game, but the main story had a few good ones like Gi Nattak, Pagoda 1v1s, Huge Materia train enemies (in this case the proper setup to kill them in time, but then again i was being stubborn with a garbage party), Reno & Rude on Gelnika.

I'm throwing this thought just in case, but i'm aware that there may be several reasons for that, like Materia system x Class system, 3 members instead of 4, battle mechanics, specially regarding time, differences, making the mod more acessible as somehow there are people who managed to beat BNW but yet struggled and gave up on NT, etc etc.

- Tranquilizer / Back Row 50% damage reduction / ATB wait "trick"

I feel like through the main story the damage was balanced around the players not using any of those. The damage always felt really low. Wouldn't be better for balance if you remove tranquilizer (and remove the property to cause sadness from any attack that has it) and reduce the back row mitigation to 25% instead of 50% ? Hopefully in the future you or someone in the modding community manages the same sorcery they did with BNW ATB wait/active system (i have yet to play the FFX "ATB" version) so it makes things easier to standardize

God tier mod. My only complaint is that this can't be emulated so i'm forced to watch animations and talking instead of fast forward, then again i'm sure someone will get triggered by this comment. The quality of life additions like cutscene skips, fast tents, extra shops and save points kinda makes up for it.
 
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Eh I didn't even know that, and I finished this game so many times before :-o

So I'll just equip that materia and wish no ennemies attack after the boss battle..

Thanks for your answer
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Remember that you can disable random encounters via save points as well.

My Carmine Weapon isn't spawning with its eyes nor do they spawn/awaken mid-fight (then again it was only 3 min ingame time). Latest patch (yesterday).
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I'll investigate that and call an optician if need be.

- Magic vs Attack

I understand that the point of magic being superior because it costs MP, but right now Attack is simply too far behind during the main game. It can only relatively catch up before the transition to the tier 2 and tier 3 spells and only with elemental equipped, aside from the 1 to 3 cases where you get a weapon that is clearly ahead of the curve. Late game you even get Contain and Comet (maybe MP Turbo and MP absorb too, can't remember) through the main story while you probably have to grind for mug, 2x-cut is behind aditional content that you're not sure when you should fight so i imagine it's easy for people to ignore it until they unlock the limit 4 sidequests (even then i imagine it's too annoying to fight Cait-Sith Tank without several Added Effects).

I'd say up to Corel/Gongaga it's fine both on regular fights and boss fights given enemies HP and your MP pool, but after that enemies get too much HP compared to the physical damage output, Elemental materia becomes a double-edge sword, mostly because virtually every area having both  flying and heavy enemies, those two points combined also makes gravity heavily outshine Attack (doesn't require any M.Atk stat) and for last your MP getting high enough that you can go through one save point to another without wasting your entire mana. On disc 2 and 3 i fought most story bosses with 2 mages and was required just a few osmoses/ethers before the fight was over, and it was definitely worth over Attack or Deathblow+Added Cut. Even the endgame sidequests probably requires at the very worst 2 turbo ethers.

By endgame you can farm turbo ethers on the pots if you ever need and get W-Magic almost for free, as if Contain wasn't already overkill by itself. Meanwhile if you want your attack to catch up you have search for the material through several sidequests and deal with the annoyance of morphing material for the ultimate weapon. I may sound pissed, but it's just my way of getting my point clear, so sorry if i sound agressive.
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There was some discussion a while back about moving some of the Materia into Midgar like Added Cut and Slash-All (assuming split variance could be added to it's damage formula); if attack is too far behind then I could look at placing 2x-Cut down on the regular path (maybe where Added Cut is right now, if that gets moved to Midgar) to help lift Physicals a bit. I do feel that physicals are more than viable when set up correctly, just maybe overshadowed by all the options you get with Magic.

- Buffs/Debuffs/Counters/Tank and Spank

You have played BNW, so this makes things easier. What i find interesting about BNW is that bosses have a chance to counter specific commands/spells and will buff/debuff/dispel based on a global combat timer (and not their turn), which is something it lacks here. I only found counters to Limit Break on Northern Cave and Deathblow on the Reno and Rude fight on Gelnika It makes combats more interesting because it requires some degree of decision making. On Brave New World you can have the right pieces put together and still die because you went greedy, took the wrong decision or straight up got bad RNG, which is relatively rare, but it's entertaining and makes battles intense. On New Threat you can simply Haste+All, Barrier+All and Slow (if the boss isn't immune) and instawin most story bosses just through good old tank and spank, using the strongest attacks and healing when low on HP (god bless white wind, by the way) like on "any" vanilla Final Fantasy. The only ones that i felt actually threatened by death even with the right setup were Curator and Abyss (my setup probably wasn't the greatest, but it wasn't bad either), which i felt was on a whole new level compared to the bosses found on the other paths, then again the Ribbon reward is probably the reason.

On the other hand NT is much more challenging on the preparation to fight and figuring out the proper setup, it really feels like a puzzle game, specially at end game, but the main story had a few good ones like Gi Nattak, Pagoda 1v1s, Huge Materia train enemies (in this case the proper setup to kill them in time, but then again i was being stubborn with a garbage party), Reno & Rude on Gelnika.

I'm throwing this thought just in case, but i'm aware that there may be several reasons for that, like Materia system x Class system, 3 members instead of 4, battle mechanics, specially regarding time, differences, making the mod more acessible as somehow there are people who managed to beat BNW but yet struggled and gave up on NT, etc etc.
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I know exactly what you mean with the fights in BNW; the problem with command-specific counters is that they can be a little opaque, especially if they only activate intermittently. They could be used to help temper the pace of a fight though, Schizo's heads use a counter that builds up to 5 before being used (when a head is hit five times, it counters with a special attack). I can also set any command to be used as counter-attack criteria, but if I did this then I think I would include a text string/attack name that mentions which command activated that particular counter (or just identifying it as a counter-attack). That way they'd be much easier to identify and adjust to during a blind attempt.

As for dispel-attacks, I think I had a lot more of them in earlier builds but I was turned away from them by another mod I played where every boss seemed to have one. It was a bit of a pain getting everything back in place again, especially as Barriers already have a finite lifespan (especially under Haste). I could review that, but I like to have fast fights and feedback has generally been asking for that, especially on Disc 2/3.


- Tranquilizer / Back Row 50% damage reduction / ATB wait "trick"

I feel like through the main story the damage was balanced around the players not using any of those. The damage always felt really low. Wouldn't be better for balance if you remove tranquilizer (and remove the property to cause sadness from any attack that has it) and reduce the back row mitigation to 25% instead of 50% ? Hopefully in the future you or someone in the modding community manages the same sorcery they did with BNW ATB wait/active system (i have yet to play the FFX "ATB" version) so it makes things easier to standardize
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These are a bit of a problem; when people use Back Row + Sadness it can actually backfire a little bit by making the fights slower for the player (less Limits, less physical attack options, etc.) I think the mentality usually from challenge runs or harder mods is that having these two bits of mitigation up are almost mandatory. The other issue is ATB settings; I did my testing on Full-speed Wait ATB as I feel that's the most stable one which makes status effects usable. But I can't make people use Wait, and your approach to the game needs to change when playing on Active (and I suspect Active is a popular choice because some in-game dialogue made it sound like the best option :I)


God tier mod. My only complaint is that this can't be emulated so i'm forced to watch animations and talking instead of fast forward, then again i'm sure someone will get triggered by this comment. The quality of life additions like cutscene skips, fast tents, extra shops and save points kinda makes up for it.
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Cheers for all the feedback, bud; there's actually a tool you might be interested in as well called Ochu that can adjust the speed of the game: https://www.ff7catalog.com/threads/9593/

It has some other features like adjusting enemy HP, etc. which is great for debugging but the fps adjustments are the best feature as they get around the dodgy frame-limiter that the PC game has which can tank most PCs when recording.
 
Mod sounds interesting, however I have tried installing the 1998 pc version and your mod three times now and keep having one problem. After the three avalanche members speak with Corneo and tifa, aerith, cloud fall down the trap door ONLY tifa and aerith appear in the sewers. cloud doesnt appear and pressing buttons does nothing. it appears to freeze music still plays.  everything else works fine and i have nothing else installed. just that ff7 98 pc install disc maximum install,   ff7_opengl-0.8.1b.zip,  ff7 patch 1.02. and Install_Aali-s_opengl_driver_0.8.1b.exe

i have renderer set to "direct3d hardware acceleration and have nvdia and tnt checkmarked if that matters.  i dont have an option to choose "custom driver" like back when i played years ago.   did i  install aalis custom driver or that opengl thing wrong maybe?  i have no idea. today is my last day off work then i work five, 12 hour night shifts in a row so pretty disappointed. hope this is an easy fix.
 
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Mod sounds interesting, however I have tried installing the 1998 pc version and your mod three times now and keep having one problem. After the three avalanche members speak with Corneo and tifa, aerith, cloud fall down the trap door ONLY tifa and aerith appear in the sewers. cloud doesnt appear and pressing buttons does nothing. it appears to freeze music still plays.  everything else works fine and i have nothing else installed. just that ff7 98 pc install disc maximum install,   ff7_opengl-0.8.1b.zip,  ff7 patch 1.02. and Install_Aali-s_opengl_driver_0.8.1b.exe

i have renderer set to "direct3d hardware acceleration and have nvdia and tnt checkmarked if that matters.  i dont have an option to choose "custom driver" like back when i played years ago.   did i  install aalis custom driver or that opengl thing wrong maybe?  i have no idea. today is my last day off work then i work five, 12 hour night shifts in a row so pretty disappointed. hope this is an easy fix.
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I'm having the same problem as this person. I'm using the Steam version of FF7 with just the New Threat mod, nothing else.
 
Yeah, Attack can be viable on boss fights, but you still have to deal with +50% physical damage (in other words, usually more MP and turns burnt on healing), which is specially annoying for Tifa given that you will face party-wide physical attacks, misses for Cid and the low HP for Yuffie against high acc spells. Obviously nothing major, but as you said, it really is overshadowed by magic.

On regular fights it's simply too annoying, as there get to a point where you have to escape battles where enemies aren't weak to your equipped elemental and fighting without a elemental with anything besides Yuffie or Tifa using Deathblow+Added Cut, as anyone else i felt like didn't hit often enough, means you only have 2 party members instead of 3. Maybe reduce regular enemies physical defense on discs 2 and 3 areas so elemental attack isn't a must-have to do anything more than tickle to the enemies. It's possible that i'm over reacting about regular enemies (except on disc 2 Midgar Raid and Northern Crater, but i assume this last one was designed around you fishing for specific encounters and avoid everything else or simply turn battles off), as discs 2 and 3 have little and short areas, but i was always trying to check out every regular enemy i could find to see the changes and difficulty, so maybe it's not a big deal for the average player.
 
Mod sounds interesting, however I have tried installing the 1998 pc version and your mod three times now and keep having one problem. After the three avalanche members speak with Corneo and tifa, aerith, cloud fall down the trap door ONLY tifa and aerith appear in the sewers. cloud doesnt appear and pressing buttons does nothing. it appears to freeze music still plays.  everything else works fine and i have nothing else installed. just that ff7 98 pc install disc maximum install,   ff7_opengl-0.8.1b.zip,  ff7 patch 1.02. and Install_Aali-s_opengl_driver_0.8.1b.exe

i have renderer set to "direct3d hardware acceleration and have nvdia and tnt checkmarked if that matters.  i dont have an option to choose "custom driver" like back when i played years ago.   did i  install aalis custom driver or that opengl thing wrong maybe?  i have no idea. today is my last day off work then i work five, 12 hour night shifts in a row so pretty disappointed. hope this is an easy fix.
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I'm having the same problem as this person. I'm using the Steam version of FF7 with just the New Threat mod, nothing else.
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It's a scripting problem on my end; the new sidequest that was implemented recently takes place in Midgar so the new ones were built on top of the old ones. I'll get this issue fixed ASAP; expect to see a patch up very soon.

Yeah, Attack can be viable on boss fights, but you still have to deal with +50% physical damage (in other words, usually more MP and turns burnt on healing), which is specially annoying for Tifa given that you will face party-wide physical attacks, misses for Cid and the low HP for Yuffie against high acc spells. Obviously nothing major, but as you said, it really is overshadowed by magic.

On regular fights it's simply too annoying, as there get to a point where you have to escape battles where enemies aren't weak to your equipped elemental and fighting without a elemental with anything besides Yuffie or Tifa using Deathblow+Added Cut, as anyone else i felt like didn't hit often enough, means you only have 2 party members instead of 3. Maybe reduce regular enemies physical defense on discs 2 and 3 areas so elemental attack isn't a must-have to do anything more than tickle to the enemies. It's possible that i'm over reacting about regular enemies (except on disc 2 Midgar Raid and Northern Crater, but i assume this last one was designed around you fishing for specific encounters and avoid everything else or simply turn battles off), as discs 2 and 3 have little and short areas, but i was always trying to check out every regular enemy i could find to see the changes and difficulty, so maybe it's not a big deal for the average player.
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I'll review accuracy as well; I also noticed that some characters can't really make use of Deathblow at all, particularly late on.

Edit: Spotted the sewer problem, uploading patch now. Should be up in 15mins or so.
 
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The Junon League NPCs vanished. Is that supposed to happen after you win all leagues ?

Started the Dark Cave and for some reason all the enemies in the 1st area turns into white blob and instantly dies at the beginning of the fight, even the supposedly first boss. After that up to the 2nd boss it was fine.

The notepad mentions a Letter to SOLDIER sidequest that starts with the Accessory Vendor in Junon, but i assume that was dropped/removed as there is nothing unusual happens and the NPC on Highwind doesn't mention it either.
 
The Junon League NPCs vanished. Is that supposed to happen after you win all leagues ?

Started the Dark Cave and for some reason all the enemies in the 1st area turns into white blob and instantly dies at the beginning of the fight, even the supposedly first boss. After that up to the 2nd boss it was fine.

The notepad mentions a Letter to SOLDIER sidequest that starts with the Accessory Vendor in Junon, but i assume that was dropped/removed as there is nothing unusual happens and the NPC on Highwind doesn't mention it either.
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Junon Leagues was disabled for the time being; it's too similar to Battle Square and I'm looking to restore that Zack flashback in Shinra Mansion while moving this to an unused Cargo ship field + making the script more stable.

There's an issue with the countdown timer; when at 0, it makes a battle end automatically which I didn't think of (same thing with boss). I'm planning to do another patch either tonight or tomorrow to get all the latest bug reports fixed up and implemented.

That sidequest was dropped in the end, but I think the old notepad file still mentions it.

Edit: Flevel Patch for the sewers issue - http://www.mediafire.com/file/dqqsfwb5h7b3f2q/NT_Mod_HotFix_flevel_16th_October_2016.zip
 
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If you save after the 2nd boss on Dark Cave and load the file, you won't be able to climb the tower. The door is graphically open, but there is an invisible barrier. Where is Yuffie ? She is the only left and i talked with everyone and went everywhere.
 
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If you save after the 2nd boss on Dark Cave and load the file, you won't be able to climb the tower. The door is graphically open, but there is an invisible barrier. Where is Yuffie ? She is the only left and i talked with everyone and went everywhere.
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Thanks for letting me know; the patch will up tomorrow (with other fixes). Yuffie is found in the scrap maze, examine the yellow materia sitting on the hand-like platform near the south to trigger the event. If it isn't there, then use the flevel hotfix patch on the 1st page; I removed the 'Aeris exists' requirement from it.
 
This is a default game bug; after beating Schizo, any encounter on that screen will also have the no-escape flag. I'm going to try a couple of things to fix it because a few people have ran afoul of an unescapable Gaea Dragon after beating the boss.
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Not sure if this would help, but have you considered having the menu open up afterwards maybe? Would that be enough to fix that issue? :?
 
Not sure if this would help, but have you considered having the menu open up afterwards maybe? Would that be enough to fix that issue? :?
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Battle Mode flags don't get turned off until you've left the screen; I've added in a line that sets Battle Mode to None but if that doesn't work I could try the formation data, or teleporting the party to the same field as that might reset the flag as well. I think battle mode: none will do the trick though.
 
So I've been running through a game where I don't level up my stats at all (in other words, I don't use any of the SP points I get from battles), and I've noticed that SP seems to max out at 255 for each character. I'm guessing this is a limitation of the engine, given that all the stats in the game max out at 255 anyway. I was wondering, though - are points you earn past 255 wasted forever?
 
I'm afraid so; a higher number can be used but two var addresses would be needed to hold a 16-bit value. SP can now be earned fairly quickly thanks to the system revision however.
 
I think that's everything fixed up that was mentioned (thanks for the lists MoCheese & Purazis for the inaccessible pillar report). The Schizo random battle no-escape fix is also going in. Patches going up shortly.

Edit: Patches + IRO up, dated 18th October 2016
 
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