[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.999992)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sega Chief
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
-) Elemental
I want to change most of the elemental defence available to only offer 50% reduction instead of Null and Absorb, with 1-Star Elemental Materia. There'd still be some armour/accessories offering null/absorb but they won't appear until much later in the game. The reason behind this is that I have a hell of a time trying to balance Boss attacks that use elements much later in the game due to the amount of ways that these attacks can be completely negated which is tough for balancing. 50% reductions, though, allow for a nice middle-ground that doesn't cripple the boss too hard. I'm pretty set on this but maybe someone can argue me out of it.
Ehhh... maybe? I dunno, 50% reduction at max kinda cripples what Elemental is supposed to do. Maybe you could just limit the amount of Elemental materia we can obtain, like, there's only one or two available. Or, maybe you could set the maximum to Null rather than absorb. I suppose it's not a huuuuge deal since I use Elemental more for attack than defense anyway, but I will personally stage a revolt if you do a similar change to Added Effect. Elemental defense I can deal without; status ailment defense, no way.

-) Junon Leagues
I hate this for two reasons: 1) it's too similar to Battle Square except much slower and less versatile with prizes, and 2) it revolves around 1v1 fights which are the hardest fights to make interesting without story context backing it up a little bit. So what I'd like to do is, at a later date, is revamp this completely and make it so that you manage a fighter rather than fight in it yourself (the battles would be organised to be super quick though, with a 3-5min countdown on them so they can't drag out). You'd customise this fighter with different parts to adjust stats/innate abilities and select which attack variants it will use in the AI cycle (so you could swap out a rocket punch with a flamethrower that inflicts statuses for instance).

Given how this might pan out, I'm not planning to do this for 1.5 but to instead keep Junon Leagues as it is for now but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
1v1 fights in general tend to be some of the trickier battles, so I don't know if I could handle one involving an uncontrolled AI, even one that's well-programmed. Even with a good setup, I'm not comfortable depending completely on an AI. I don't mind the Junon Leagues, but if you don't want them to drag out, you could just implement the timer on what we already have.

Materia Bonus/Penalties
1) I'm avoiding HP penalties on standard Materia due to it quickly tanking characters who are magic orientated as they tend to need more stuff equipped.
2) I'm going to separate Strength penalties off Magic bonuses to make hybrids a bit easier to put together.
3) Support Materia will tend to have penalties on it to make it more of a double-edged sword rather than a splashable equip. Looking at things like HP/MP/Magic penalties on things like All, Strength loss on Added Cut, etc.
Now that's interesting. I don't know if you'd need to get rid of HP penalties altogether, though it's hard to go lower than 2%. I'm just so used to FFVII that it feels weird to not have some kind of HP penalty. But I guess it would make the 10% reduction from things like MP Turbo more bearable when you're already loaded up on standard magic materia. Not sure about penalties on support materia, especially when the major ones like Quadra Magic already have some hefty reductions. But Quadra Magic is major and deserves some penalties; why does All need them? All already has a built-in limit, that being how many times you can use it per battle.

Getting rid of the strength penalty would be great, though. It could just be my playstyle, but NT doesn't seem like a mod where you can afford to be too specialized. I'll be looking forward to making Cloud a real fighter-mage hybrid.
 
Last edited:
-) Junon Leagues
I hate this for two reasons: 1) it's too similar to Battle Square except much slower and less versatile with prizes, and 2) it revolves around 1v1 fights which are the hardest fights to make interesting without story context backing it up a little bit. So what I'd like to do is, at a later date, is revamp this completely and make it so that you manage a fighter rather than fight in it yourself (the battles would be organised to be super quick though, with a 3-5min countdown on them so they can't drag out). You'd customise this fighter with different parts to adjust stats/innate abilities and select which attack variants it will use in the AI cycle (so you could swap out a rocket punch with a flamethrower that inflicts statuses for instance).

Given how this might pan out, I'm not planning to do this for 1.5 but to instead keep Junon Leagues as it is for now but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Honestly, it might be better to have it set up kind of like Chocobo Races are. You can have the choice of participating yourself, or setting up an AI that you can customize. Maybe each give out different prizes, the AI one maybe giving better prizes since I would think it would be a bit harder to do. Maybe have the participated 1v1's give items that would add more customization options to your AI. I honestly really liked the 1v1's. The special enemies there were silly and enjoyable. I would hate to see it have the same thing happened to it, that happened to Blitzball in 10-2. Only thing I would suggest is more variety. Throw in some more enemies to battle. Could be some basic recolors of Shinra soldiers. Maybe make it more like a tournament brackets thing. And maybe have a different set of enemies to fight in the AI fights. Cause that would be a perfect way to implement a kind of side story where you are doing a kind of Robot Wars esque tournament, and have NPC's around Junon that you can interact with that will either help by supplying you with free basic customization options, or just chat about the Tournament. Would be a way to hint at something happening later when you first get to Junon. Maybe a couple NPC's saying how they can't wait for the AI Tournament. Have a guy set as a manager that can see potential in you and gives you a pass to get down into the Junon Leagues area where you can choose to do an AI battle, or a 1v1 to get more AI customization's. Though, saying that I know that is A LOT of work so what you suggested might be the best idea in terms of finishing in a timely manner, if it's even possible to do.
 
I've been replaying this, trying to go farther than last time (up to and after Tseng!), and so I come bearing bug reports and suggestions:


- The description of Vincent's innate still says it's passive MP regeneration. Not sure if Cait Sith's was also inverted.

- The Platinum M-Phone is Nibel Mansion is neat, but for such an early item, it really eclipses all the other magicking weapons. You might want to either move it, or tweak its boosts (Mag/Dex +25 is just silly)

- You mentioned adding more save points, please please add one somewhere in Nibelheim. Going back to Cosmo Canyon after the Commando/Lambda fights was soul-crushing.

- Dragon Armlets for morphing a Gaea Dragon is a valuable reward but miiight be a bit too much too early?

- I realize you've removed the damage immunities of the Keehaul Armor because it was a bit of a mess with the script and targetting, but now the boss seemed very easy. It might need a bit more firepower. Either that, or changing his script around a bit. Maybe let both arms be damaged at first (but not the body), and only remove the immunity once both arms are down? Up to you, but it feels like the boss's gimmicks didn't get enough time to shine.

- In the Gelnika, a chest contains a Farmer Glove, but the textbox calls it a Farmer's Fist.

- I've had the Unknown 2 (flower-skull) use ???? Needle twice in quick succession (generally near the end of a fight) for a cheap, unavoidable (??) game over, which isn't too bad considering how small the Gelnika is, but is quite vexing.

- Typo here, alignment here, this guy says nothing, and Tseng stands back up if you exit the rocket after entering it.


(PS: Did you change the chest in the submarine dock that used to contain a Scimitar? I missed it and have no idea where to dig to find what was in there.)
 
Last edited:
Ehhh... maybe? I dunno, 50% reduction at max kinda cripples what Elemental is supposed to do. Maybe you could just limit the amount of Elemental materia we can obtain, like, there's only one or two available. Or, maybe you could set the maximum to Null rather than absorb. I suppose it's not a huuuuge deal since I use Elemental more for attack than defense anyway, but I will personally stage a revolt if you do a similar change to Added Effect. Elemental defense I can deal without; status ailment defense, no way.

1v1 fights in general tend to be some of the trickier battles, so I don't know if I could handle one involving an uncontrolled AI, even one that's well-programmed. Even with a good setup, I'm not comfortable depending completely on an AI. I don't mind the Junon Leagues, but if you don't want them to drag out, you could just implement the timer on what we already have.

Now that's interesting. I don't know if you'd need to get rid of HP penalties altogether, though it's hard to go lower than 2%. I'm just so used to FFVII that it feels weird to not have some kind of HP penalty. But I guess it would make the 10% reduction from things like MP Turbo more bearable when you're already loaded up on standard magic materia. Not sure about penalties on support materia, especially when the major ones like Quadra Magic already have some hefty reductions. But Quadra Magic is major and deserves some penalties; why does All need them? All already has a built-in limit, that being how many times you can use it per battle.

Getting rid of the strength penalty would be great, though. It could just be my playstyle, but NT doesn't seem like a mod where you can afford to be too specialized. I'll be looking forward to making Cloud a real fighter-mage hybrid.
I didn't think of that, I'll see about adding the timer to the current Junon Leagues and balancing it around that timer; should make it much faster to go through.

Honestly, it might be better to have it set up kind of like Chocobo Races are. You can have the choice of participating yourself, or setting up an AI that you can customize. Maybe each give out different prizes, the AI one maybe giving better prizes since I would think it would be a bit harder to do. Maybe have the participated 1v1's give items that would add more customization options to your AI. I honestly really liked the 1v1's. The special enemies there were silly and enjoyable. I would hate to see it have the same thing happened to it, that happened to Blitzball in 10-2. Only thing I would suggest is more variety. Throw in some more enemies to battle. Could be some basic recolors of Shinra soldiers. Maybe make it more like a tournament brackets thing. And maybe have a different set of enemies to fight in the AI fights. Cause that would be a perfect way to implement a kind of side story where you are doing a kind of Robot Wars esque tournament, and have NPC's around Junon that you can interact with that will either help by supplying you with free basic customization options, or just chat about the Tournament. Would be a way to hint at something happening later when you first get to Junon. Maybe a couple NPC's saying how they can't wait for the AI Tournament. Have a guy set as a manager that can see potential in you and gives you a pass to get down into the Junon Leagues area where you can choose to do an AI battle, or a 1v1 to get more AI customization's. Though, saying that I know that is A LOT of work so what you suggested might be the best idea in terms of finishing in a timely manner, if it's even possible to do.
I'll see what I can do.

I've been replaying this, trying to go farther than last time (up to and after Tseng!), and so I come bearing bug reports and suggestions:


- The description of Vincent's innate still says it's passive MP regeneration. Not sure if Cait Sith's was also inverted.

- The Platinum M-Phone is Nibel Mansion is neat, but for such an early item, it really eclipses all the other magicking weapons. You might want to either move it, or tweak its boosts (Mag/Dex +25 is just silly)

- You mentioned adding more save points, please please add one somewhere in Nibelheim. Going back to Cosmo Canyon after the Commando/Lambda fights was soul-crushing.

- Dragon Armlets for morphing a Gaea Dragon is a valuable reward but miiight be a bit too much too early?

- I realize you've removed the damage immunities of the Keehaul Armor because it was a bit of a mess with the script and targetting, but now the boss seemed very easy. It might need a bit more firepower. Either that, or changing his script around a bit. Maybe let both arms be damaged at first (but not the body), and only remove the immunity once both arms are down? Up to you, but it feels like the boss's gimmicks didn't get enough time to shine.

- In the Gelnika, a chest contains a Farmer Glove, but the textbox calls it a Farmer's Fist.

- I've had the Unknown 2 (flower-skull) use ???? Needle twice in quick succession (generally near the end of a fight) for a cheap, unavoidable (??) game over, which isn't too bad considering how small the Gelnika is, but is quite vexing.

- Typo here, alignment here, this guy says nothing, and Tseng stands back up if you exit the rocket after entering it.


(PS: Did you change the chest in the submarine dock that used to contain a Scimitar? I missed it and have no idea where to dig to find what was in there.)
I'll change the text on the innates in the flevel, good thing you mentioned it because I missed that.

That M-Phone (used to be Silver? I forget) was changed to be like a Disc 2 weapon but I clean forgot to check if it was dropped anywhere during the game (I only checked the shops for it). I'll get that squared away.

1x Nibelheim Save Point coming up.

I'll maybe remove that from Gaea then.

Yeah, it was going to be a big brawl with Carry Armour because it's one of the toughest bosses in the default game (especially in challenge runs where MP draining isn't on the cards) but the length of the fight prompted me to remove the immunities from it. I'm going to try and make it work, I'll test your suggestion and see how it goes; shrinking it to 2 phases of attacks instead of 3 might be the way to go.

Unknown2 prob uses a random script; I'll set it to use a pattern instead to prevent successive uses of ???? Needle (or was that attack used as a Limit Break counter? I can't remember).

The dreaded it's's's. Alignment issues should be fixed out for the most part after I've done my run; I'll see about the hobo NPC and Tseng's sudden verticality too.

According to the flevel, the chest closest to Carry currently contains a battle trumpet and the 2nd one next to the new save point (which replaced the 3rd chest) has Leviathan Scales inside. Scimitar is, for some reason, all the way down in the North Crater Left-Down path in a green chest.
 
-) Elemental
I want to change most of the elemental defence available to only offer 50% reduction instead of Null and Absorb, with 1-Star Elemental Materia. There'd still be some armour/accessories offering null/absorb but they won't appear until much later in the game. The reason behind this is that I have a hell of a time trying to balance Boss attacks that use elements much later in the game due to the amount of ways that these attacks can be completely negated which is tough for balancing. 50% reductions, though, allow for a nice middle-ground that doesn't cripple the boss too hard. I'm pretty set on this but maybe someone can argue me out of it.
I am ALL for this change, and if it makes balancing things easier then that's just an added bonus in my mind. Elemental absorbs would be impossible to balance around if for nothing else then because no matter how strong you make an attack, if you absorb it then that attack gets taken off the enemy table and a turn is for nothing. And if you push it too far, then all you are doing is making absorption mandatory and that's just silly. Ideally the goal should be to have no AI turn as a "0 damage" turn. I'm fine with if you are overpowered for an area and an enemy does 20 damage or something weak because there should be progression, but complete negation or absorption shouldn't be possible at all without some sort of negative or hampering roadblock attached. Because the simple question then arises: "Why wouldn't I completely negate that attack or two if I can?" And it's true. If you can wipe attacks off the board simply because they are elemental, then what reason is there to never do it? You guarantee victory at the offset of killing the boss a little slower? Big deal. Meanwhile if you can only reduce damage, then it becomes a question of "risk vs. reward" while at the same time characters that do need the help are never safe even with the boost. A perfect example of this is Netz. All of those attacks did so much elemental damage at the time I fought him that absorbs almost became necessary. It should never be that way. I fully support this change. I even made this same point in the FF8 doc. The fact you can fully absorb ALL elements with ONE spell junctioned to Elem-Junc was beyond ridiculous. Either removing immunity or immunites with some negative is the way to go.

The only two things I would warn/bring up is how this works in conjunction with armours/accessories that also reduce elemental damage. I don't think you should have it to where elemental materia + an armour or accessory that reduces the same element = immunity, but maybe if you do have both on the effect could be stronger? Up to 75% reduction could be a nice middle ground for those who wouldn't want to see absorbs go away vs. those of us who think they should. I do not know if that would be possible within the coding and engine of the game, and I personally wouldn't recommend it because 75% seems to be too close to negation/absorption to me. But if you want to implement something like this if possible this may be the best way to appease everyone. I could live with this.

The other thing would be is if negation/absorption is removed, some enemy damage numbers would have to come down. That's balance stuff though.

-) Junon Leagues
I hate this for two reasons: 1) it's too similar to Battle Square except much slower and less versatile with prizes, and 2) it revolves around 1v1 fights which are the hardest fights to make interesting without story context backing it up a little bit. So what I'd like to do is, at a later date, is revamp this completely and make it so that you manage a fighter rather than fight in it yourself (the battles would be organised to be super quick though, with a 3-5min countdown on them so they can't drag out). You'd customise this fighter with different parts to adjust stats/innate abilities and select which attack variants it will use in the AI cycle (so you could swap out a rocket punch with a flamethrower that inflicts statuses for instance).

Given how this might pan out, I'm not planning to do this for 1.5 but to instead keep Junon Leagues as it is for now but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I agree that Junon Leagues were kinda... eh. Didn't want to say anything about it since it was yours, but if you aren't happy with it I would agree that it didn't quite hit the mark. Not entirely certain that this "Robot Fight League" is the answer either, but I'd need to see it implemented first to judge. I do think that Tifa's Final Heaven should probably be removed from there, but I don't know where else you would put it? Single fights are tough to do right and usually they aren't the most fun, so having a lot of them in one spot is kinda grating. However and for spoilers sake:
Zack Fair was excellently done! So full credit there!


Was there any content or ideas that were removed from FF7 beta that's still in the code that could be re-implemented for an idea as a replacement perhaps? If not, then the "RFL" will do. While we're on minigames though, what about the Gold Saucer minigames that no one ever plays? Could these be rebalanced to be a little easier or more fun to play with some better prizes or whatever? Can anything be done to incentivize people to play them? I personally liked the motorcycle and snowboarding games but I know a lot of people didn't. Regardless of preference it would be nice to see these get some sort of use at any point in the game. This isn't a big deal though, if you'd rather they just be left there for people to play if they choose too, that's fine.

-) EXE Edits
I'm going to be rolling out a custom .EXE for 1.5 that has a gamut of NT-specific changes to Limit Breaks and Materia Equip Bonuses/Penalties. The last .EXE patch didn't do very well on this front, leaving players with barely enough HP to survive attacks and Limits that were weaker than physical attacks (somehow). I'll be keeping this in mind when making the changes but I've got a few changes that you might want to comment on:

Limits
1) Cosmo Memory and All Creation are single-hitting multi-target attacks; in the past I made Cosmo Memory into a support/buff Limit while All Creation applied status ailments to help them stand out from the multi-hit damage Limits other characters have.
2) Clear Tranquil changed from a 50% MaxHP heal to a 50% MaxMP heal with Poison, Silence, and Darkness cleared from the party.
So long as there is some reason to actually use the damn things once you hit limit level 3-2, that is all that matters in the end. By the sounds of "single-hitting multi-target" I think you mean the same as Catastrophe correct? I personally think that they should hit all targets multiple times while being a little weaker then single target limits. I say this because the attacks blast that entire side of the screen so it makes more sense to me. If you don't want to do this for balance reasons or personal preference or whatever other reason it's fine. This is another one of those "not a big deals"

Clear Tranquil sounds fine to me for a level 1.

Materia Bonus/Penalties
1) I'm avoiding HP penalties on standard Materia due to it quickly tanking characters who are magic orientated as they tend to need more stuff equipped.
2) I'm going to separate Strength penalties off Magic bonuses to make hybrids a bit easier to put together.
3) Support Materia will tend to have penalties on it to make it more of a double-edged sword rather than a splashable equip. Looking at things like HP/MP/Magic penalties on things like All, Strength loss on Added Cut, etc.
You need to be really careful with these kind of changes. If the whole point of the mod is to return to the idea of the more traditional FF style with more staunch Fighter and Mage types then having hybrids works against this for the most part. Don't get me wrong, I realize that even FF1 had the Red Mage but that was one of the bigger problems with the game in my mind. A "Wizard" that could wield the Masamune while throwing good healing spells and buffs around was overdoing it. FF7 vanilla was a game where everyone could do everything and in the end it came down to what limits were the strongest or what characters you had the most attachment to. If you start making hybrids more viable it goes right back to the "Well why wouldn't you?" territory. Making characters excel at one attack style or another forces the player to make the choice, and the choice was the best part of the mod. Mages shouldn't be great attackers anymore then Fighters shouldn't have great spell casting abilities. Mages should have lower health and defenses compared to a Fighter that takes more magic damage while having low Magic stats. A "jack of all trades, master of none" is fine so long as Fighters and Mages perform noticeably better than a Hybrid in their respective fields at all stages of the game.

The Fighter/Mage thing did raise a question in me though: How are limit break damage numbers determined? Are they all based off of strength and the weapon being wielded? If so, how do Mages fit into this setup? Do they inherently have weaker limit breaks the Fighters?

As for All, I'd leave it alone. Since everyone uses All for many different reasons(Healing, buffs, attacks, debuffs), putting penalties on it would make it a tougher thing to balance and the penalties would hit certain builds stronger then others.
 
Here is some that could be changed to allow more useful Materia combinations matching the effects of the Materia description and skill:

  • Materia Ramuh's Summon can inflict Petrify but the materia doesn't have the flag set for weapon/armor combinations
  • Materia Bahamut, Materia Neo-Bahamut and Materia Bahamut-Zero use Shout as Elemental effect not Hidden as all other "unknown" elemental Materials (this may be used as a big advantage with Materia Element which could allow you to absorb any physical shout attack from the enemys
  • Materia Neo-Bahamut can inflict Dual but the materia doesn't have the flag set for weapons/armors, even tho it's not visible at the status screen
  • Materia Planet's Skills can inflict Death and Sleep but the materia doesn't have the flag set for weapon/armor combinations
  • Materia Contain's Skills can inflict Dual, Confusion, Stop and Petrify but the materia doesn't have the Dual flag set for weapon/armor combinations
  • Materia Manipulate could get the status flag of manipulate to protect against it.
Accessoires that block Limits:

  • Amulet's Status says: Prevents [Barrier] - Lck +75, actually it blocks Barrier, MBarrier, Reflect, Shield, Peerless - A better description would be "Blocks any kind of protection."
  • Silver Refractor's Status says:  Prevents [Barrier/Time] - Spr +50, actually it blocks Barrier, MBarrier, Reflect, Shield, Peerless, Haste, Slow, Stop - A better description would be "Blocks any kind of protection and time manipulation."
  • Ribbon just should allow Peerless as already mentioned in the other posts same for "Amulet" and "Silver Refractor"

A fix for the Enemy Launcher would be give it the "Random" and "Start as Multiple" attribute and removed "Enable Selection" now, it randomly attacks any Target, even with 2xCut. Only Slash-All, Flash, Mega-All and 4x Cut will override this behavior now. => No softlock anymore with this weapon.

Coin can also be fixed by changing "One row only" to "All Rows" it will work on all, the cursor is just focusing on the enemy team but it attacks the team as well when casted. But still, the damage is to high and it can't invoke Wait. :(

Bug: Magic "Pearl" can be used as a frog.

-) Elemental
I want to change most of the elemental defence available to only offer 50% reduction instead of Null and Absorb, with 1-Star Elemental Materia. There'd still be some armour/accessories offering null/absorb but they won't appear until much later in the game. The reason behind this is that I have a hell of a time trying to balance Boss attacks that use elements much later in the game due to the amount of ways that these attacks can be completely negated which is tough for balancing. 50% reductions, though, allow for a nice middle-ground that doesn't cripple the boss too hard. I'm pretty set on this but maybe someone can argue me out of it.
Elemental can and will always be used in different ways, some for attacking, some for defending and for healing too. And if you change the Elemental Materia in the way it is, you take a BIG feature out of the game. It takes a lot of time in the early to level it, in late game you can't balance the elementals anymore except, you fully use "cut", "shoot", "shout" & "hit"  as elementals for the enemys since there is no possibility (except zietrich) to reduce their damage or to absorb it. (Except with the Bahamut change you did i mentioned above)
As long as you use a magical formular and not physical, even "cut" & "hit" will be threated as magical attack that doesn't matter.

Materia Bonus/Penalties
1) I'm avoiding HP penalties on standard Materia due to it quickly tanking characters who are magic orientated as they tend to need more stuff equipped.
2) I'm going to separate Strength penalties off Magic bonuses to make hybrids a bit easier to put together.
3) Support Materia will tend to have penalties on it to make it more of a double-edged sword rather than a splashable equip. Looking at things like HP/MP/Magic penalties on things like All, Strength loss on Added Cut, etc.
"Support" means making stuff stronger by supporting it in a different way, if you add penalties to support stuff, you'll reduce it's worth a lot. Before you get Mega-All or Master Magic you'll sometimes have 3 or more All Materias equipped, each would then reduce your low health supporting characters health even more.
I am ALL for this change, and if it makes balancing things easier then that's just an added bonus in my mind. Elemental absorbs would be impossible to balance around if for nothing else then because no matter how strong you make an attack, if you absorb it then that attack gets taken off the enemy table and a turn is for nothing. And if you push it too far, then all you are doing is making absorption mandatory and that's just silly. Ideally the goal should be to have no AI turn as a "0 damage" turn. I'm fine with if you are overpowered for an area and an enemy does 20 damage or something weak because there should be progression, but complete negation or absorption shouldn't be possible at all without some sort of negative or hampering roadblock attached. Because the simple question then arises: "Why wouldn't I completely negate that attack or two if I can?" And it's true. If you can wipe attacks off the board simply because they are elemental, then what reason is there to never do it? You guarantee victory at the offset of killing the boss a little slower? Big deal. Meanwhile if you can only reduce damage, then it becomes a question of "risk vs. reward" while at the same time characters that do need the help are never safe even with the boost. A perfect example of this is Netz. All of those attacks did so much elemental damage at the time I fought him that absorbs almost became necessary. It should never be that way. I fully support this change. I even made this same point in the FF8 doc. The fact you can fully absorb ALL elements with ONE spell junctioned to Elem-Junc was beyond ridiculous. Either removing immunity or immunites with some negative is the way to go.
With one spell it's really to hard, but that's FF8 and a completly other way to play, also farming 100x Ultima or Apocalypse before Mid Disc 3 is also... yeah... not that easy? ;)

Anyway, on FF7 you can't absorb all 15 elements (Restorative absorbtion would deal normal damage, so don't count this)
But i got another good idea to your last sentence on that part.
@Sega Chief, you could give all Items that have Elemental Absorbtion the Ability of restoratives absorb too. So healing would become a lot harder because you have to make use of fire skills or hidden skills just to heal that ally ("Recovery" from Elixiers will still work, but potions won't). Also this would force the player to overthink his decission getting this special item. Warning: This would block Phoenix Dawns and other forms of Revival too.

In NT you can just absorb 6 Elements at a time, Vanilla allows all 8 Basic Elements at once. Don't remove main features out of the game, reducing them to make it harder is fine.
Also keep in mind that it's just 6 out of 15. (and as MoCheese noticed in FF8 you could deny/absorb 8 out of 8, even tho a LOT easier than on FF7)
Just 40% instead of 100% is fine.

You make also use of this Elemental stuff extremly on early game, almost nothing on late game where the player start to do some damage the enemys won't heal each other anymore... give for example Nemesis a Poison absorb, let him Cast Regen & Poison on himself on a lot of enemies and i had almost no fight where i got healed by one of any enemies attack so far, except if i make use of poison... earth or gravity. Those seem to be the elements you use more than anything else on the attacks. I barely got hit by Fire, Ice or Lightning Elements.
A lot of your enemies also use Poison and Absorb Poison to get healed or even Gravity (Gi Nattak and that fight is horrible ;p). Why do you wanna deny this feature to the Player?

(but if you allow Regen on an Enemy like Nemesis, allow Dual too, else he can't be killed anymore or an extrem abuse of the so called "Wait"-Trick)

Just another thought of this nerfing features stuff: Isn't it a part of a single player game to try your best to win it? Getting strong and stronger defenses? Dealing fast and more damage lateron? Adding new features that allow more possibilities to hunt down the monsters are great, forcing the player to get on one kind of build sucks. Yeah challenging Battles are amazing and you get the very hard stuff to deal high damage and build up good defenses only in late game.
Start this game with each item and each materia 3 times in your Inventory and  it's also easy as vanilla...
 
Last edited:
In NT you can just absorb 6 Elements at a time, Vanilla allows all 8 Basic Elements at once. Don't remove main features out of the game
Main feature or not, I do not think that it is fine to keep the ability to negate all "magic-oriented" elements, not without some serious consequences for doing so. Thematically, it seems to go against the initial philosophy of not making the endgame about physical attacks, and flavor-wise, it's just awful. If your super flying fire boss can't be super firey because Fire Rings are farmable, and can't use Wind either because Elemental-Wind exists, what else are you gonna do? Give ice spells to the fire boss? Give the boss more physical-element spells(??), so he has a chance to outrun the healing caused by his own attacks? You should not go into a boss praying for him to cast his more unique moves, but fearing his bites.

It's just silly. Elemental negation should either be the product of a unique item, or coming at some sort of price. Just look at the Relic Ring: absorbs hidden, but absorbs restorative; grants +20 Str/Mag, but is unique for... a good portion of the game. You actually need a bit of an elaborate setup to use it right, and you can't do it on your whole party.

So yeah, I'm all for changing materias or gear that [Absorbs] into [Halves] or [Quarters?], and [Blocks] for endgame or flawed items. Even if the flaw is just "Does not have any stat boosts" like the Protect Ring.

  • Amulet's Status says: Prevents [Barrier] - Lck +75, actually it blocks Barrier, MBarrier, Reflect, Shield, Peerless - A better description would be "Blocks any kind of protection."
  • Silver Refractor's Status says:  Prevents [Barrier/Time] - Spr +50, actually it blocks Barrier, MBarrier, Reflect, Shield, Peerless, Haste, Slow, Stop - A better description would be "Blocks any kind of protection and time manipulation."
Prevents [All Barriers] / Prevents [All Barriers/Time] should be concise enough. If we need to add more item text, I'd rather the character space be used on items that don't show their stat boosts (like the Platinum M-Phone, or the Cat's Bell). All three Bahamut materias (not the attacks themselves) also don't mention their DeBarrier/Dual/Dispel effect.
 
Last edited:
Main feature or not, I do not think that it is fine to keep the ability to negate all "magic-oriented" elements, not without some serious consequences for doing so. Thematically, it seems to go against the initial philosophy of not making the endgame about physical attacks, and flavor-wise, it's just awful. If your super flying fire boss can't be super firey because Fire Rings are farmable, and can't use Wind either because Elemental-Wind exists, what else are you gonna do? Give ice spells to the fire boss? Give the boss more physical-element spells(??), so he has a chance to outrun the healing caused by his own attacks? You should not go into a boss praying for him to cast his more unique moves, but fearing his bites.
It takes a lot of time to get "absorb" with Elemental Materia as it needs Level 3 to give that, this is not easy and requires a lot of grinding if you are not having access to the farming crater and/or triple AP Stuff. Added Effect for Example is A LOT stronger, it blocks the respective status changes on level 1 completly. Also if you wanna force the player to use only magic, block all physical attacks as weapons themself use "cut", "hit" and "shoot" as element which is... in would also just change the technique the player would use. If you want an immortal boss edit his AI Script and add Physical and Magical Imunity to it or attack him only with Skills he absorbs.

"Quarters" won't be possible without changing the whole Engine of the game, as it has only access to 4 states those are "normal, half, nullify, negate" for elemental Damage Types. As for Effects counts "Block or not".

There are not many enemies that use fire attacks lateron most use demi, earth, holy and hidden and everything except the extremly good stuff (except Masamune) is farmable.

Preparing for a bossfight is also part of a game like this. So yes i would farm Fire Rings to stay alive. Take the vanilla, you get aurora ring shortly before you fight the fire/ice dragon on gaes cliff... it helps you staying alive... the final-attack of each head is still damn strong and neutral. So don't kill both at the same time or you have to start over... and over again...

The bosses here are almost equal to that, you get some useful stuff right before them, but nevertheless they are still damn strong during story play and at the beginning of the sidequests (especially the solofight-bosses!).

I do not think that it is fine to keep the ability to negate all "magic-oriented" elements, not without some serious consequences for doing so.
You can't negate all at once. And the big consequence you are talking about is already there. You need 8 Materia slots to block 4 Elements, which prevents you from using other Materia. Also the equipment with 8 Slots is late game stuff and it has low physical defense and for example Nemesis hits really hard with his Armageddon. It can wipe out the whole party if no barrier is active.

It's just silly. Elemental negation should either be the product of a unique item, or coming at some sort of price. Just look at the Relic Ring: absorbs hidden, but absorbs restorative; grants +20 Str/Mag, but is unique for... a good portion of the game. You actually need a bit of an elaborate setup to use it right, and you can't do it on your whole party.
And yes the price for Elemental Materia is just "Time", it eats a lot of it as the fights early on are hard, even with Death-Added Effect. This absorbtion is only late game stuff.

All three Bahamut materias (not the attacks themselves) also don't mention their DeBarrier/Dual/Dispel effect.
They don't have the "Effect" at moment, that's why i mentioned it to add it, the Bahamuts themself display it at the help message.
2Cfd6Av.png

Do you know how the Materia/Skill/Elemental stuff even works? Everything has 3 Parts: Materia itself posses an Element, the Skill the Materia unlocks could have a completly different Element (see Kjata or Typhoon), even so Materia can have an Effect like Hades does. If Kjata Materia would have all 4 Elements it uses in his Skill (Fire, Ice, Earth and Lightning) you could already block 50% of the visible Elements, or expect KotR with Elemental Feature... it "should" allow access to 10 Elements as the Skill(animation) uses 13 different Attacks, physical and magical punching, cutting. But every attack you see is the same skill. Or better gets calculated as the same skill.

The Restorative Block of the Cursed Ring blocks Revive from Phoenix Down and Life-Skill himself, but not from Phoenix or Life2 (you revive with 50% health and without the curse, still no life reg from cure/potions, BUT regen works as Dual from the cursed ring is off too regen is blocked by the ring itself, so just 50% life). Also Life2 is a lot earlier available than absorbing stuff.

@Sega Chief if you really remove the negate/nullify ability of elemental materia, you should make sure to cover all elements with items that can replace it. And not only 3 or 4 Elements like you do now. I know you wanna avoid something like this "Flash"-Recovery and that's good, but removing a part of the freedom this game gives to the Player isn't the best idea. Materia is the main feature and the more you progress, the stronger it gets, no matter if physical, magical or supportive to stay alive. If you wanna avoid it, remove "Flash" from the game, most ppl don't use it anyway, "Multihits are the key to Victory".

I for myself, prefer defensive materia builds that help me surviving, glasscannon's can be great too, but this mod builds on long fights... so... no.
Also i think some items should only be available VERY late like those triple AP weapons, in vanilla there are only 3 if i remember right, Apocalypse with just 3 Slots and the two others had just two slots. Having strong materia early on (like Destruct with his Death-Effect, i already mentioned) is challenge-breaking, not the late use of strong materia combinations.

Edit:
FF7 has 17 Elements one is really "hidden", let's just call it neutral Element, as it can only be used if the elemental flag of the given skill is "00", it can never be absorbed or anything. It counts as physical or magical (depending on the formular used) this Element is perfectly for skills that should never be blocked. I tested it on a fight against Bizzarro with an "extremly" overpowered Cat's Bell.
He still killed me with 1 Attack, because this attack had the neutral Elemental association. No matter how the animation looks.

The only way to protect yourself from this element are your stats, barriers, shield, peerless or physical/magical evasion.

And a lot of attacks/skills Sega Chief created have the "neutral element" or no elemental association. Almost ALL attacks from Nemesis for example... only White Wind uses Restoration. Therefor you can't absorb anything on Nemesis, instead Armageddon can be evaded, but needs a damn high evasion rate as it has 150 points on the hitrate flag. Screen

Visual Bug or missing Feature: Correct the "Restore Type" Flag for all self-made cure-pots: Maiden's Grace, Soft, Cornucopia that this Box with the Status Effects shows up.
 
Last edited:
The Fighter/Mage thing did raise a question in me though: How are limit break damage numbers determined? Are they all based off of strength and the weapon being wielded? If so, how do Mages fit into this setup? Do they inherently have weaker limit breaks the Fighters?
Well, Aeris has no offence Limits and Vincent's Limits utilise a physical and magical attack (maybe not for Chaos Saber, can't remember). Strength plays a factor in Limit damage so building that stat on characters like Cloud and Red XIII would make those abilities stronger. The weapon formula doesn't get used though. The characters this affects can be built either Strength or Magic so it doesn't matter too much.

I think hybrids would work quite well in this game, there's the Limits, Added Cut, Counters, etc. to piece it all together. Just need to be careful like you say about Hybrids becoming stronger than dedicated fighter/casters but I doubt that'll happen.

Here is some that could be changed to allow more useful Materia combinations matching the effects of the Materia description and skill:

  • Materia Ramuh's Summon can inflict Petrify but the materia doesn't have the flag set for weapon/armor combinations
  • Materia Bahamut, Materia Neo-Bahamut and Materia Bahamut-Zero use Shout as Elemental effect not Hidden as all other "unknown" elemental Materials (this may be used as a big advantage with Materia Element which could allow you to absorb any physical shout attack from the enemys
  • Materia Neo-Bahamut can inflict Dual but the materia doesn't have the flag set for weapons/armors, even tho it's not visible at the status screen
  • Materia Planet's Skills can inflict Death and Sleep but the materia doesn't have the flag set for weapon/armor combinations
  • Materia Contain's Skills can inflict Dual, Confusion, Stop and Petrify but the materia doesn't have the Dual flag set for weapon/armor combinations
  • Materia Manipulate could get the status flag of manipulate to protect against it.
The Bahamuts used to have Shout but it was causing me problems with elemental attacks again. Some others don't have the status inflicted by the summon attached to the Materia because...the flags aren't visible in the editor! I don't know if this is a mistake in the editor's design or if the flags just straight up don't exist in that part of the kernel due to space. Planet & Contain can probably have their statuses on the Materia, but Dual can't be set. Manipulate I considered but thought it might be a bit odd as the only function of the command is to inflict that status; there are some enemies now that use Manipulate so I could just add that on anyway.

Accessoires that block Limits:

  • Amulet's Status says: Prevents [Barrier] - Lck +75, actually it blocks Barrier, MBarrier, Reflect, Shield, Peerless - A better description would be "Blocks any kind of protection."
  • Silver Refractor's Status says:  Prevents [Barrier/Time] - Spr +50, actually it blocks Barrier, MBarrier, Reflect, Shield, Peerless, Haste, Slow, Stop - A better description would be "Blocks any kind of protection and time manipulation."
  • Ribbon just should allow Peerless as already mentioned in the other posts same for "Amulet" and "Silver Refractor"
The kernel has some text compression issues that come and go from time to time, the cause of which I'm not too sure of. I suspect I've exceeded the safe size of the kernel which might explain why KOTR's summon text is gone/bugged. When writing descriptions, I tried to be as concise as possible and for those accessories I listed the blocked statuses by their Materia name rather than listing them individually. Barrier is probably confusing because of the spell with the same name, so I'll need to come up with another word for it. Protective magic maybe? I'm rewriting the kernel right now to try and fix the KOTR problem and chopping down the text again.

Peerless is going to be treated as the same as protective magic. It's a very powerful status and the last thing that should be getting a free pass; if the player has equipment on that blocks Peerless and plans to use Aeris' Lv.3-2 or Lv.4 Limit then that's a clash in their set-up they should be considering.

A fix for the Enemy Launcher would be give it the "Random" and "Start as Multiple" attribute and removed "Enable Selection" now, it randomly attacks any Target, even with 2xCut. Only Slash-All, Flash, Mega-All and 4x Cut will override this behavior now. => No softlock anymore with this weapon.

Coin can also be fixed by changing "One row only" to "All Rows" it will work on all, the cursor is just focusing on the enemy team but it attacks the team as well when casted. But still, the damage is to high and it can't invoke Wait. :(
I think Multi + Random would make it behave like Comet2, probably not much use. The whole thing with Launcher was that it was supposed to be a blender weapon but if it can't be that due to the bug then it'll either need to be something else or 2x-Cut gets the random target flag that 4x-Cut has. But seeing as it'd be a bit drastic to undermine 2x-Cut for one weapon, I'll prob change Launcher to do something else; maybe just as simple as making it behave like Shotgun with multi-target. Coin was global originally but I must have changed it for some reason, maybe someone found a problem with it.

***

I've been thinking that the best way to go about this elemental issue is to go with a combination of the suggestions made so they all meet each other halfway:

1) Leave Elemental Materia as it is; 2 slots for Null/Absorb late-game
2) Reduce elemental defence on accessories and armour by one tier (so Null on rings, Half on Armlets).
3) Reinstate Shout on Bahamut Materia
4) Design end-game enemies with less elemental attacks and more unaspected/physical element ones
5) Fine-tune elemental accessory stat bonuses/effects so that stat-boost accessories are still viable picks when elemental damage is a factor (for instance, Fire Ring gives +15 Str/Dex with it's Fire Absorption while Power Wrist only gives +20STR with Berserk defence which is a double-edged thing as Berserk can be used to raise attack power).

I'll need to keep an eye on Shield and Peerless, though. Aeris can only use it once with her Limits and they need proportionately more damage to fill the gauges again (Mime isn't an issue as any command taken would overwrite Planet Protecter/Great Gospel for copying, unless physical counter attacks aren't Mimed; can't remember, though I think that Magic/Command Counter will overwrite the action to be Mimed).

Shield has it's high MP cost and, as much as I hate it, the lack of an immediate visual indicator outside of bringing up the status box is also a drawback to keep it more in check than Peerless. Non-elemental attacks can also punch through it.

About vanilla Schizo, all of his attacks are elementally aspected; Fire/Ice breath, the Tremors are Earth, and the final attacks are Bolt. With Aurora Armlet + Fire Ring and two Elemental Materia you can easily make a character invincible or at least very unlikely to die in that boss; it's an extreme example, but those are the kind of situations I want to avoid.
 
Toning down elemental protection from equipment seems reasonable too. For a game where Materias can also provide elemental mitigation, it's already very generous with the elemental protection. I'd leave the Adaman Bangle and Relic Ring untouched though, since they do have very noticeable drawbacks to them right now.

I'll prob change Launcher to do something else
Shame there doesn't seen to be a way to attach the "Eject" status to weapons. That'd be appropriate (and OP as fern) for such a weapon name. Instant-death with low accuracy...? :-P

They don't have the "Effect" at moment, that's why i mentioned it to add it, the Bahamuts themself display it at the help message.
That's what I said...? The materia description for the attack doesn't mention the effect, but the combat description does. I'm not talking about their attached Effect/Element, just the description of the summon.

Do you know
Yes. I do know. Chill. :c
 
Last edited:
The Bahamuts used to have Shout but it was causing me problems with elemental attacks again. Some others don't have the status inflicted by the summon attached to the Materia because...the flags aren't visible in the editor! I don't know if this is a mistake in the editor's design or if the flags just straight up don't exist in that part of the kernel due to space. Planet & Contain can probably have their statuses on the Materia, but Dual can't be set. Manipulate I considered but thought it might be a bit odd as the only function of the command is to inflict that status; there are some enemies now that use Manipulate so I could just add that on anyway.
In the scene.bin everything is fine with Bahamuts, the Attacks have their respective Flag set for Dual and so on, the kernel.bin just doesn't have the flag for combination with Added-Effect.
Skillset on scene.bin for Bahamut: http://i.imgur.com/KozvMu0.png
Statset on kernel.bin for Bahamut Materia: http://i.imgur.com/2RSCoTy.png
Materia ID 63 = Attack ID 003F
That it works in the Editor and displays everything fine here another shot of Hades Materia with his 6 Status-Effects: http://i.imgur.com/WGV3hEd.png

About vanilla Schizo, all of his attacks are elementally aspected; Fire/Ice breath, the Tremors are Earth, and the final attacks are Bolt. With Aurora Armlet + Fire Ring and two Elemental Materia you can easily make a character invincible or at least very unlikely to die in that boss; it's an extreme example, but those are the kind of situations I want to avoid.
Yeah and vanilla even has an Item that could eat those 4 Elements (Fire, Ice, Lightning and Earth if I remember right) at once and it was called Tetra-Master or something similar, never played the english version of the vanilla. So I'm not sure about the name.

I think Multi + Random would make it behave like Comet2...
Not really, he attacks 2 figures on the Battlefield with Double-Cut giving no choice to select/prefer a Team. It can hit the enemy team twice or the own team. It's kinda funny but an useless combination for real games.

You could use the Random Damage Formula (68) on the Enemy Launcher, unfocused would match this wide amount of damagevariation too, but be careful as it ignores defense. So max weapon str 15 or 12 for attacking to keep it low. Combined with "Random" and no "Enable Selection" this weapon would be depending so hard on luck. Doing a good amount of physical damage... or just nothing.

Don't add manipulate as status effect as i suggested, you could manipulate your teammates if used as weapon-effect and the game would crash as they have never a skill set. Better add it to any equipment stuff of your choice, so you make sure it only gets blocked effect.

As for the Itemdescr. renaming, Protective Magic sounds good to me.

Shame there doesn't seen to be a way to attach the "Eject" status to weapons. That'd be appropriate (and OP as fern) for such a weapon name. Instant-death with low accuracy...? :-P
An alternative would be give the Weapon the "Ignore Stat Def" and then just equip a "Slash-All" Materia Lvl 2 or higher. Every enemy dies with one hit. Like you would use Cait Sith's Game Over Limit.
Or this method: http://i.imgur.com/kLuqCon.png extrem low hit rate (like 11%), then only 20% chance to trigger death, no damage otherwise, no materia slots BUT if it hits it kills every enemy instantly. "Lucky Shot" with like 2% kill-rate.

Yes. I do know. Chill. :c
Ok, now i know too. ;)
 
Last edited:
With one spell it's really to hard, but that's FF8 and a completly other way to play, also farming 100x Ultima or Apocalypse before Mid Disc 3 is also... yeah... not that easy? ;)

Anyway, on FF7 you can't absorb all 15 elements (Restorative absorbtion would deal normal damage, so don't count this)
But i got another good idea to your last sentence on that part.
@Sega Chief, you could give all Items that have Elemental Absorbtion the Ability of restoratives absorb too. So healing would become a lot harder because you have to make use of fire skills or hidden skills just to heal that ally ("Recovery" from Elixiers will still work, but potions won't). Also this would force the player to overthink his decission getting this special item. Warning: This would block Phoenix Dawns and other forms of Revival too.

In NT you can just absorb 6 Elements at a time, Vanilla allows all 8 Basic Elements at once. Don't remove main features out of the game, reducing them to make it harder is fine.
Also keep in mind that it's just 6 out of 15. (and as MoCheese noticed in FF8 you could deny/absorb 8 out of 8, even tho a LOT easier than on FF7)
Just 40% instead of 100% is fine.

You make also use of this Elemental stuff extremly on early game, almost nothing on late game where the player start to do some damage the enemys won't heal each other anymore... give for example Nemesis a Poison absorb, let him Cast Regen & Poison on himself on a lot of enemies and i had almost no fight where i got healed by one of any enemies attack so far, except if i make use of poison... earth or gravity. Those seem to be the elements you use more than anything else on the attacks. I barely got hit by Fire, Ice or Lightning Elements.
A lot of your enemies also use Poison and Absorb Poison to get healed or even Gravity (Gi Nattak and that fight is horrible ;p). Why do you wanna deny this feature to the Player?
You can actually farm Ultima's mid-Disc 2 using the Shumi Trick. Not that this is an optimized or even smart use of your time, granted, but yeah. Regardless, you do raise a good point when it comes to Poison Regen. For the record I don't want any of the enemies to lose the ability to absorb elements since we're not the AI and we can adjust, but that Poison thing is a very good point. It's not so much that I want to remove absorption of elements in the game perse, so much as I want to make sure that it isn't either used or needed to be a crutch. I brought up the Netz example and SC brought up Schizo as another one where the entire fight can be either be circumvented or was almost needed to win, and that should never be the case. I also don't want to see later enemies and virtually all end game monsters becoming non-elemental to avoid you circumventing their elemental attacks. Because if you turn all the later game enemies non-elemental and remove/change attacks that do deal elemental damage, you're still removing a main feature of the game, only it's on the other side of the field this time are you not?

It's tough, it really is. The choices seem to be either remove immunity which some don't want to lose as it is a main feature even though it could be used to extremely strong effect or even fight breaking effect, or leave it in and turn enemies later on in the game into less "flavourish" versions going non-elemental and making things a little more streamlined. I don't know... Like I said, it's tough.

Well, Aeris has no offence Limits and Vincent's Limits utilise a physical and magical attack (maybe not for Chaos Saber, can't remember). Strength plays a factor in Limit damage so building that stat on characters like Cloud and Red XIII would make those abilities stronger. The weapon formula doesn't get used though. The characters this affects can be built either Strength or Magic so it doesn't matter too much.

I think hybrids would work quite well in this game, there's the Limits, Added Cut, Counters, etc. to piece it all together. Just need to be careful like you say about Hybrids becoming stronger than dedicated fighter/casters but I doubt that'll happen.
Is the difference in Limit Break power between a Mage with little Strength and a Fighter with a lot of Strength all that much? I'm thinking back to my playthrough and I can't recall noticing a stark difference? And for the hybrids, good stuff.

I've been thinking that the best way to go about this elemental issue is to go with a combination of the suggestions made so they all meet each other halfway:

1) Leave Elemental Materia as it is; 2 slots for Null/Absorb late-game
2) Reduce elemental defence on accessories and armour by one tier (so Null on rings, Half on Armlets).
3) Reinstate Shout on Bahamut Materia
4) Design end-game enemies with less elemental attacks and more unaspected/physical element ones
5) Fine-tune elemental accessory stat bonuses/effects so that stat-boost accessories are still viable picks when elemental damage is a factor (for instance, Fire Ring gives +15 Str/Dex with it's Fire Absorption while Power Wrist only gives +20STR with Berserk defence which is a double-edged thing as Berserk can be used to raise attack power).

I'll need to keep an eye on Shield and Peerless, though. Aeris can only use it once with her Limits and they need proportionately more damage to fill the gauges again (Mime isn't an issue as any command taken would overwrite Planet Protecter/Great Gospel for copying, unless physical counter attacks aren't Mimed; can't remember, though I think that Magic/Command Counter will overwrite the action to be Mimed).

Shield has it's high MP cost and, as much as I hate it, the lack of an immediate visual indicator outside of bringing up the status box is also a drawback to keep it more in check than Peerless. Non-elemental attacks can also punch through it.

About vanilla Schizo, all of his attacks are elementally aspected; Fire/Ice breath, the Tremors are Earth, and the final attacks are Bolt. With Aurora Armlet + Fire Ring and two Elemental Materia you can easily make a character invincible or at least very unlikely to die in that boss; it's an extreme example, but those are the kind of situations I want to avoid.
Well I still think too many absorbs/null options are too strong, but if this the halfway compromise than go with it. I only worry that every end game enemy will either be non-elemental and materia combinations will be more streamlined, or they will become a little too easy with most of their attacks being nulled/absorbed.

(Man, balancing stuff is hard, huh?)
 
In the scene.bin everything is fine with Bahamuts, the Attacks have their respective Flag set for Dual and so on, the kernel.bin just doesn't have the flag for combination with Added-Effect.
Skillset on scene.bin for Bahamut: http://i.imgur.com/KozvMu0.png
Statset on kernel.bin for Bahamut Materia: http://i.imgur.com/2RSCoTy.png
Materia ID 63 = Attack ID 003F
That it works in the Editor and displays everything fine here another shot of Hades Materia with his 6 Status-Effects: http://i.imgur.com/WGV3hEd.png
That Dual flag in the kernel is only one part of the status; there's two, Dual and Dual-Drain. Dual on its own does nothing except appear in status menus within battle, while Dual-Drain will crash the game unless it is inflicted with it's partner, Dual. I'm thinking that if the Materia only has Dual on it, then any effect inflicting Dual + Dual-Drain will only get Dual-Drain through and cause problems. I'll test it with the Dual flag on its own and see if it works or not.

Random might be too much as that's what Cait Sith's Dice uses and it tends to hit harder than his physical attacks in most cases; I think it ignores base power/Strength as well so a low attack power on it probably wouldn't slow it down. No defence ignore could keep it in check but I reckon it'll be hitting high even in its lower ranges. The damage ranges themselves depend on the level of the attacker, gaining a Dice for each 10 levels. You'd be around Lv.20+ or 30+ when Enemy Launcher hits the scene so that's 3-4 Dice with ranges of 600-5400, and 1000-9600 respectively; even with Defence Ignore off, I reckon it'll outstrip regular physical attacks completely bearing in mind it might be able to make use of Elemental for 2x (assuming the formula allows for that check). I'm going to check it anyway for curiosity sake.

Shame there doesn't seen to be a way to attach the "Eject" status to weapons. That'd be appropriate (and OP as fern) for such a weapon name. Instant-death with low accuracy...? :-P
Eject would be ridiculous; I think if it was used on an enemy they'd just freeze on the field rather than being removed from view (animations with eject like Hammerblow have data in them to correctly remove the affected enemies from view).

Is the difference in Limit Break power between a Mage with little Strength and a Fighter with a lot of Strength all that much? I'm thinking back to my playthrough and I can't recall noticing a stark difference? And for the hybrids, good stuff.
I think you'd only really notice it on Yuffie or maybe Red XIII when compared to, say, Cid if you've went with magic-builds for the former.
 
I just fought that boss at Wutai on the fifth floor(Goto? Yuffie's dad) with Yuffie and noticed he was using a spell called aqualung.  I beated him and saved on all my save slots.(I regret doing so)  Than I started wondering about the water element and started looking it up and realized that it may be one of the few if not only water element attack other than Leviathan.  I tried to get it from the Garuda enemy in the Da Chao area but they are not using it.  I've stood there and let them spam there attacks and they're not using it.  Please help.  Did you move it?  Thanks.
 
Last edited:
(I was editing and saying different things on this message post and now it feels like a mess)  Please disregard this message. (I'm not sure how to delete it)   ;D
 
Last edited:
There's another water-element attack that was added to the Ultima Materia (renamed Planet as it has 3 spells on it) called Hydro. It's basically a Contain-level spell like Break and Tornado.

As for Aqualung, I think you need to Manipulate the Garuda to have it use Aqualung. If it says otherwise in the current notes then apologies.
 
Random might be too much as that's what Cait Sith's Dice uses and it tends to hit harder than his physical attacks in most cases; I think it ignores base power/Strength as well so a low attack power on it probably wouldn't slow it down. No defence ignore could keep it in check but I reckon it'll be hitting high even in its lower ranges. The damage ranges themselves depend on the level of the attacker, gaining a Dice for each 10 levels. You'd be around Lv.20+ or 30+ when Enemy Launcher hits the scene so that's 3-4 Dice with ranges of 600-5400, and 1000-9600 respectively; even with Defence Ignore off, I reckon it'll outstrip regular physical attacks completely bearing in mind it might be able to make use of Elemental for 2x (assuming the formula allows for that check). I'm going to check it anyway for curiosity sake.
The speciality of this Random Flag on Weapons is, that it ignores the Str Value of the char completly, it just uses the Str Value of the Weapon for the max value, so 12 on Weapon str would be 1200 dmg max. No matter the level or any stat in game. Cait Sith's Dice Limit generate the STR Value with the dices and then make use of the random value. Just to mention it. :)

@ASheep only the Serpent (Sunken Gelnika) would use it again during battles. All other enemys that have Aqualung in their Code, won't make use of it unless you maybe manipulate them as Sega Chief said.

Otherwise you still could use Black Chocobo to add it.
 
So I made the Armour changes today and want to find out if I can get away with these changes or not  :-X


2zphzsx.png

16k9glh.png

1rrbqq.png


Those are the three major ones, as they pick up some serious drawbacks there. Mystile is the evasion armour, with its Defence weakness compounded by Shield immunity. Ziedrich defends through elements, so status defence suffers as a result with unlinked slots + Resist immunity (you'd have a toss-up between having a Ribbon but not having positive buffs or selecting a status accessory which blocks 1-2 statuses at best) but the lack of buffs is risky with reduced Restorative. Aegis was a bit tougher to fit in; in default it was a poor man's Mystile and in NT it was a physical-weighted Mystile. this time around I'm going with a Luck-based accessory with good basics on it but only four slots and Regen immunity. Utility on the three armours is also a little tougher to come by due to unlinked/fewer slots.

The effectiveness of these armours would depend on the enemy side of things. Too many non-elemental attacks would screw Ziedrich, unevadable attacks would bugger Mystile. Aegis is a little more stable with the Luck bonus but limited Slots make it a bit trickier to use. Other changes were removing the elemental leans of Warrior and Fourth to just be Strength and Magic boosters while Imperial Guard now has more of an edging over Crystal Bangle (before, Crystal was better which was lunacy as that's a store-bought armour). Dragon Armlet also changed from Fire/Ice/Bolt to Shout reduction, and the Fire/Ice/Bolt armours Halve rather than Null.
 
Last edited:
So, I started playing your mod and am not that far yet; I just reached Costa Del Sol and I think bosses take a ridiculous amount of time to kill because of their massive HP amounts, but otherwise, the mod has been hilarious and I can respect/enjoy most changes.

I never expected that awesome extra dialogue for climbing the Shinra building the hard way. And that battery... facepalms.

I will have to request that you make the changelog public; I originally downloaded the IRO version, and to get the changelog I had to download and extract the zip on a remote server (I have a monthly data cap) just to get a 47kb file.

Speaking of the changelog:
\\Cargo Ship//

Shop Inventory
-) The sailor's shop inventory was adjusted for the upcoming boss fight with Jenova.
He was only selling Potions and Phoenix Downs

\\Junon//
Send-Off Minigame
-) The prizes have been changed here as well, with a HP Plus no longer being available.
   The top prize (120+) is now a Mastered 'Enemy Away' Materia, with 2nd Prize being
   a Rune Armlet. There is no longer a consolation prize.
At 150 points, I received a Rune Armlet. Which is really good at that point in the game. I'm guessing this information is simply outdated rather than outright wrong.


I also encountered some glitches with Fort Condor:

  • My first time there, there was a guy standing outside, impossible to interact with
  • Talking to the Teleport guy my first time there prevented me from exiting the Fort. I had to climb the rope back up and then back down to be able to leave


And a random glitch where the Curator is impossible to speak to. I originally challenged the thing, lost, and then I wanted to find more about it and wanted to know its name to google it; but after being defeated I couldn't do so. Without saving, I reloaded my previous save and try to battle it again to no avail.


Keep up the good work!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top