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unclebiggs23
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I didn't know that the Curse Ring boosted stats, nor did I know where it was. I've been wondering where to find it for awhile now. I'll try it and see what happens.
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RascalQueen
Guest
Sega, Arrange will be coming back with 1.5, right? It's honestly my preferred approach to New Threat - the extra Materia modifiers and overhaul to Limit Breaks is really nice. I still can't figure out why they would have made Mindblow Gravity and thus useless against most bosses...
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strife98
Guest
It might just be my play style, but in both vanilla and new threat I always went with a physical build, except for on Aeris. I'd always equip things that boosted my attack, or gave me elemental advantages, and I almost always stayed in the front lines unless a character like Barret or Vincent had a long range weapon, then it would only make sense to use that advantage and put them in the back to save them on some damage. I also always play on active, even though stuff like Barriers won't be super effective, it gives a bit more challenge and quick thinking (especially in New Threat). There would be times where I would throw out some magic here and there, but that was mostly Bio, healing spells, and enemy skills (mainly big guard, white wind, and matra magic if i'm grinding limits at Junon/Fort Condor forests.) I've noticed in New Threat it's a bit harder to do that, but still very possible. I mean sure, if I hit someone with a physical attack that doesn't have the elemental weakness needed on it, yeah, magic will do more damage. It's really in how you spec yourself. Of course, I'm also the type of person to grind for hours till I get to around the point I can one or two shot every normal enemy, so take this how you will.
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Sega Chief
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No SP needs a different approach, like a challenge/restriction run. You should look more into status ailments to give yourself an edge over enemies and scout out opportunities for easy EXP/AP that you can farm.
Yes.
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MoCheese
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It was stuff like this that I was mentioning a few pages back that I believe show that, by and large, enemy health numbers and our relative power levels when we fight them are pretty bang on balance wise. Balancing the game around 'Active' compared to 'Wait' makes much more sense to me, and you brought up some points that I didn't even mention. Yeah, a super speed Tifa on 'Wait' would be an absolute destroyer with an almost permanent Barrier setup. Yikes! Sadness and Barrier/Slow do indeed make the game slower overall for sure, especially in regards to Limits. That not only reduces the damage Limits do, it not only lowers the amount of times you actually get limits, but it also takes much longer to acquire stronger limits too! Combine your points with the ones I mentioned a while back and even more so than before, I still contend that you can make a better argument in the opposite direction, and say bosses could use some buffing instead of debuffing. Now I'm not calling for that mind you, because like I mentioned, I think you've got the mod balanced pretty damn well for everything that needs to be taken into account. Across the board, I think you've got it, I really do. Tweaks could be done to a myriad of things, I'm sure. Boss health or attack patterns and damage dealt, stats of monsters or status weaknesses, whatever, but I don't see any big changes needing to be done in regards to 1.4 currently is.Back Row and Sadness in particular slow the game down immensely; the mod doesn't require these unless the following are in play:
-) ATB Active/Full Speed is being used (this setting renders statuses like Barrier almost unusable and eliminates the benefit of high Dex)
-) The 7H Catalog version is being used with Menu Overhaul which can enable some unintended effects such as long-range enemy physical attacks, heavier Materia penalties, weak Limits, etc.
Physical damage has a lower output hit-per-hit but it's faster vs. Magic animations and the damage itself is propped up by both Critical Hits and Limit Breaks; but if Sadness is on, then Limit output gets throttled and you lose a big chunk of that damage. The idea is that physicals are fast but not versatile; you can only lock one (or two) elements onto a weapon using slots and most Limits are pure damage-dealers. Magic on the other hand can bring different elements to different enemy groups, but is slower to use and whittles HP when equipped (particularly Summons). Equipment drops/purchases play a part as well; if you get a Gold Armlet instead of a Silver Armlet or a Power Wrist instead of an Earring then that can lean things for a small chunk of the game.
To get physicals working, you need Elemental, front row (if they're not ranged), and to avoid Sadness for Limits. Even Aeris, who was being specced on her 'default' magic build for my test run, can hit high physical numbers with the right set-up:
For a more proper demonstration, I ran some tests in that area with Tifa vs. Aeris using the equipment I had available. It was fairly even in stat gains; Gold Armlet vs. Silver Armlet, Tier 2 spell vs. Cosmo Weapon, both having elemental 2x bonus, standard def vs. mdef balance (leans to higher Mdef for early game, slowly see-saws toward Phys defence by the end). For tilts, If Aeris had an extra +15 Mag from an Earring instead of a Star Pendant then she would have likely made an extra 100-150 per cast. Tifa, on the other hand, would have lost something like 50-100 damage if her Power Wrist was instead a Headband; like I mentioned, drops can create a tilt in certain places until it evens out again.
Fight starts at 0:43, rest is showing set-up:
In the vid clip, I show the damage output of both characters; Tifa is dealing comparable damage to a caster with tier 2 spells, is faster, and has Limits/Crits that can augment her damage. As a trade-off, she's on the Front Row which means she's more at risk from a KO; to avoid that, mitigation from Defend, Barrier, etc. can make this less dangerous. I kept the fight going into the 'powersoul' phase of the boss, which is very physical-damage heavy to show that frontline fighters can survive there (it's an extreme example though, PKeeper hits much harder physically than a conventional boss during this phase). So my advice would be to place more trust in front row fighters and let them do their thing without Sadness; if you have trouble with incoming damage, then make sure ATB is on Wait, maybe adjust the speed, and keep Barrier+All handy if you need that extra mitigation to make it safer. I try to make randoms not need Barrier, but there's a lot of unknown factors like RNG, party set-up, enemy formations, etc.
On the subject of Summons, magic-built characters tend to lose out on their Limits which mostly require Strength. I think of Summons as a versatile 'Limit' for casters that are elemental and can be used at any time, keeping up the versatility theme; at the cost of high MP consumption and being one-use per battle (also the HP reduction is a lot heavier at -10%). While MP can be recovered using Osmose/items, it consumes a turn that could have otherwise been used for offence/defence. A turn that a mage is using to replenish MP is a turn a physical hitter is using to deal damage.
I ran a similar test a while ago (should be an older post on this thread) where I tallied Tifa and Aeris' damage for a Jenova Birth/Vector fight and was quite surprised that they both turned out almost the same amount of damage despite the use of Summons, limited physical options, etc. So I don't agree that there's a heavy magical bias in the game, I think that it can appear that way, which is worrying, but on the whole both types are equally as viable as the other and I'd encourage a balanced approach so that fights feel more dynamic and faster.
Now in regards to Arranged Mode, what should players expect if they have never played this mode before? Obviously it wasn't in 1.4 and some posters were here before 1.4 so they saw it then, but what has changed? Or is it still generally the same? If I remember correctly you've said something that Arranged enemies have different AI's and better stats/health or something like that? In combination to what Rascal Queen mentioned about Materia modifiers and Limit Break overhauls?
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Sega Chief
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There's been some confusion here; I balance the mod around Wait ATB, not Active ATB. Enemies aren't universally being buffed, they're just being adjusted for 1.5 parties.
Arrange Mode increases enemy Level, activates AI flags, and enables new attacks for them to use. Away from battles, it changes item placement and you'll see events unique to that mode.
The .EXE changes will be used for both modes to keep consistency.
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Tanoshii
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Hey, thanks for the reply! So from your video, you are getting the same results as I do except you have Added Cut (wonder where I missed that) and your Tifa does a tiny bit more damage than mine but even with Sadness + Back row I do way more damage with magic. The reason I was using Sadness isn't damage related, but the fact that bosses (as in that one from the video and the one in the manor previous to it) hit so damn hard and so fast you have to be in the back row with Sadness to not get reckt. I've talked to some other people and they said it was just poor balancing in this area and it gets back to normal later, so I'll just wait for that. I'm not even under leveled either. Somehow I was at or just above the level you are in the video.
Also, I don't see melee hits being faster at all. Since your ATB recharge is dependent on DEX and the ATB is paused during casts anyway, where does melee=fastest come from? Unless you're saying that the ATB is just that much faster after a melee hit, which I don't see at all. Maybe on active it works out that way.
However, it seems as though the best/only way to have a physical damage dealer is the elemental materia+weakness on the weapon. While that is definitely probably ideal, it means you have to start a boss fight, sense to find out its weakness and then reset to change your materia around or use a guide for bosses weaknesses. I was trying to play through blind though
Finally, I am enjoying the mod quite a bit. Even though I do have some issues with a few things, I think its overall great.
Also, I don't see melee hits being faster at all. Since your ATB recharge is dependent on DEX and the ATB is paused during casts anyway, where does melee=fastest come from? Unless you're saying that the ATB is just that much faster after a melee hit, which I don't see at all. Maybe on active it works out that way.
However, it seems as though the best/only way to have a physical damage dealer is the elemental materia+weakness on the weapon. While that is definitely probably ideal, it means you have to start a boss fight, sense to find out its weakness and then reset to change your materia around or use a guide for bosses weaknesses. I was trying to play through blind though
Finally, I am enjoying the mod quite a bit. Even though I do have some issues with a few things, I think its overall great.
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RascalQueen
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There's a trick there, though. Unless a large boss is Earth, which so far has only been Lich in Gongaga, they're almost always weak to Earth. Flying bosses are always weak to Wind. Every Jenova fight is weak to Holy. Every robot fight is weak to Water and most are weak to Lightning. Any human bosses are weak to Poison.
Elemental is much easier to use in New Threat because elemental weaknesses are tied to identifiable qualities of the boss. And save points are more plentiful, especially near bosses, for a reason.
Elemental is much easier to use in New Threat because elemental weaknesses are tied to identifiable qualities of the boss. And save points are more plentiful, especially near bosses, for a reason.
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Sega Chief
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That's the issue; unless you know what a boss is weak to beforehand, then it can be difficult to set-up properly the first time. I tried to counter this a bit by having weaknesses be based on common properties (for instance, all large enemies will be weak to Earth) but it's not 100%. As a general rule, go with Earth unless it's a Jenova boss in which case go with Holy; you can get Holy element onto weapons using Restore or Revive. If it's a mechanical boss, then Bolt and Water are the way to go. That being said, sometimes it's not possible to know beforehand given the changes to some of them especially when it's a new encounter.Hey, thanks for the reply! So from your video, you are getting the same results as I do except you have Added Cut (wonder where I missed that) and your Tifa does a tiny bit more damage than mine but even with Sadness + Back row I do way more damage with magic. The reason I was using Sadness isn't damage related, but the fact that bosses (as in that one from the video and the one in the manor previous to it) hit so damn hard and so fast you have to be in the back row with Sadness to not get reckt. I've talked to some other people and they said it was just poor balancing in this area and it gets back to normal later, so I'll just wait for that. I'm not even under leveled either. Somehow I was at or just above the level you are in the video.
Also, I don't see melee hits being faster at all. Since your ATB recharge is dependent on DEX and the ATB is paused during casts anyway, where does melee=fastest come from? Unless you're saying that the ATB is just that much faster after a melee hit, which I don't see at all. Maybe on active it works out that way.
However, it seems as though the best/only way to have a physical damage dealer is the elemental materia+weakness on the weapon. While that is definitely probably ideal, it means you have to start a boss fight, sense to find out its weakness and then reset to change your materia around or use a guide for bosses weaknesses. I was trying to play through blind though
Finally, I am enjoying the mod quite a bit. Even though I do have some issues with a few things, I think its overall great.
Lost Number hits much harder than intended, particularly Ruin3 from the Magic side which is unsurvivable without full mitigation. I've fixed that for 1.5 but it's not in the current files yet.
Powersoul Keeper on the other hand is a special boss that's behaving as intended; the idea with that was to lock up the Powersoul weapon behind an optional boss that was ahead of the curve. Beating it needs a bit of planning and some timing with your strongest attacks to push through the 2nd phase when he's healing himself.
When I said physical attacks were faster, I meant in terms of animations. It'd be pretty draining to sit through Summon animations for every battle, particularly the later Summons which take longer and longer to resolve. A balanced set-up is as much for the player's sanity than anything else.
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Bowser9
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@Tanoshii
Throw is also an excellent option for strength builds if you just want to plaster a boss in NT without consideration for element. Requires that you steal from enemies as you go and avoid selling old weapons (I sold ethers/remedies instead), which some people would rather avoid. In my case, I abused the fact that NT makes stealing and MP absorption pretty quick. So, despite stealing from each encounter once (max) my last playthrough, everything went quickly thanks to the changes made in NT and my elemental-physical load-out. Writing down the enemy type weaknesses mentioned in the revamped Beginner's Hall really helps. After that, it's just abusing the shorter animations, which meant a lot of time saved overall. Pretty much everything Sega Chief explained above. Of course, if you were to grind a bit, magic should be doing more damage per action. Limit grinding ends up taking a bit longer, so that's normally not a factor. The parity between weapon tiers and spell tiers can shift depending on your play style. Typically, the faster you go and obtain equipment/elemental/summons, the easier it is to see and maintain parity.
Throw is also an excellent option for strength builds if you just want to plaster a boss in NT without consideration for element. Requires that you steal from enemies as you go and avoid selling old weapons (I sold ethers/remedies instead), which some people would rather avoid. In my case, I abused the fact that NT makes stealing and MP absorption pretty quick. So, despite stealing from each encounter once (max) my last playthrough, everything went quickly thanks to the changes made in NT and my elemental-physical load-out. Writing down the enemy type weaknesses mentioned in the revamped Beginner's Hall really helps. After that, it's just abusing the shorter animations, which meant a lot of time saved overall. Pretty much everything Sega Chief explained above. Of course, if you were to grind a bit, magic should be doing more damage per action. Limit grinding ends up taking a bit longer, so that's normally not a factor. The parity between weapon tiers and spell tiers can shift depending on your play style. Typically, the faster you go and obtain equipment/elemental/summons, the easier it is to see and maintain parity.
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unclebiggs23
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One quick question; does the Added Effect materia work on Summon Materia?? I want to fight Omega Weapon repeatedly to farm a couple of Gospel Sparks and I know that he is susceptible to Paralysis, so I wanted to pair Ramuh with Added Effect to see if it would work. I went to the status screen after pairing the two together and I didn't see the Paralyze status lit up in the Attack section, but when I paired Added Effect with Time Materia the three statuses Haste, Slow and Stop were highlighted. I'm wondering if Added Effect-Summon Materia can be paired together.
On another note, I remember you saying that using the Defend command negates Terra Break, but I tried it and it didn't work. Is this a bug or was this feature removed?
On another note, I remember you saying that using the Defend command negates Terra Break, but I tried it and it didn't work. Is this a bug or was this feature removed?
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Sega Chief
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Summons do work with Added Effect, but some of the flags are missing from Materia in the editor so I couldn't enable Paralysis on that.
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Livesey
Guest
I've had a few soft locks during battles in my playthrough.
Soft lock during a sandworm fight in Corel Prison and during the Platinum Extra Battle in Gold Saucer, Haven't found a work arounf yet, though it happens as soon as the battle starts I can input commands but they do not happen and the boss never takes a turn, also cannot flee.
I've noticed weapons are required to craft the ultimate weapons, Are these weapons missable at all? just reached disc three and can't find them.
Soft lock during a sandworm fight in Corel Prison and during the Platinum Extra Battle in Gold Saucer, Haven't found a work arounf yet, though it happens as soon as the battle starts I can input commands but they do not happen and the boss never takes a turn, also cannot flee.
I've noticed weapons are required to craft the ultimate weapons, Are these weapons missable at all? just reached disc three and can't find them.
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iDerek759
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I believe the weapons needed to craft ultimates are located in the North Crator.
They need to be morphed by various enemies down there.
They need to be morphed by various enemies down there.
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Sega Chief
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Are the two hotfix patches installed? Or are you playing the 7H version?
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Livesey
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Playing on the Steam version, not using 7H.
Hot fixes aren't installed, had assumed the above patch came with them, I'll install them and update you.
Edit: Hot fixes have fixed the Platinum match fight. Unsure about the land worm.
Great mod btw. Omega Weapon and the KOTR guardian Are crazy.
Hot fixes aren't installed, had assumed the above patch came with them, I'll install them and update you.
Edit: Hot fixes have fixed the Platinum match fight. Unsure about the land worm.
Great mod btw. Omega Weapon and the KOTR guardian Are crazy.
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ManuBBXX
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Sega, the 1.5 will be an update from existing 1.4, or a total overhaul, for you ?
And, not NT mod directly related, but can we dream of an integration of beacause retranslation with next NT ?
Cause I use to play with beacause, and it's hard to return back to the normal 'poor' translation IMO
:-D
And, not NT mod directly related, but can we dream of an integration of beacause retranslation with next NT ?
Cause I use to play with beacause, and it's hard to return back to the normal 'poor' translation IMO
:-D
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Sega Chief
Guest
1.5 is the finalising of all the mod's features; enemy/character balance, text/dialogue, extra content, etc. I'll be looking to put together a Beacaused version of NT once Dan has finalised his mod; it's been requested quite a few times. NT does have a re-write but it's not a translation, just a clean-up I've written.Sega, the 1.5 will be an update from existing 1.4, or a total overhaul, for you ?
And, not NT mod directly related, but can we dream of an integration of beacause retranslation with next NT ?
Cause I use to play with beacause, and it's hard to return back to the normal 'poor' translation IMO
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cha0tic
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Sega, my last play through I didn't find hp plus I modded it in.
Are there any in the game and more then one?
Are there any in the game and more then one?
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Sega Chief
Guest
There's one now; it's in the North Crater, left-down path and replaced the Mega-All usually found down there (Mega-All is now in the Purple Materia Cave and HP<>MP is dropped by Materia Keeper).
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