[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.999992)

[Flopinou]

It's an odd one that, I was never really able to track down the cause of it.

I've run some tests, hopefully it can help you :

Everything has been done using 7th heaven 2.0 and the mods directly included with it

So, for me the problem doesn't appear only whith the "Field Animation mod (Bloodshot + Kaldera)" activated, but also with "Field Models -Qhimm catalog -> ( Dynamic weapons -> Cloud -> 5 Ninostyle) OR -> ( Main caracters -> Cloud -> 6 - Ninostyle)", I tried other skin for Cloud (with "dynamic weapons" or "main caracter"), the one called "Bloodshot-classic", and without skin -> the bug doesn't appear.
So you CAN'T have ninostyle skin for CLOUD (Barret doesn't seems to be a problem, I tried it too), nor the Bloodshot + Kaldera mod activated.

And the bug always appear in the exact same moment :

1 - Barret say : "I dunno. ... the others ain't here either"
2 - Cloud rotate in order to face Barret
3 - Cloud say  : "We went into the cave.. and then"

So the bug is appearing between 2 and 3 -> Cloud rotate to face Barret, but never start to talk.

Edit : Precised that I used 7th heaven 2.0 to get and manage the mods.

 

[Lukey_Bug]

Are you using the sources that it gives you?

I solved it. There was an old instance of NT running with the new one. Not sure what else besides that is messed up now though.

 

[Sega Chief]

First of all, great job on the mod, I just recently finished it and had a blast!

Just one small note about the Fort Condor funds: you mention they should have enough for all unreachable battles, however they start with 15k but there are 6 battles total (5 while Tifa is sleeping, and 1 during the events in Mideel).

It's off by 1? I'll add an extra 3k just to be sure.

Hey, so i just started playing this again with the most recent update, but noticed that I am not actually gaining any stats from the rank up system. I'm level 4 on all characters and nothing.

Example, I did 4 runs of slum drunk 2 and aeris's base attacknis 47

How many sources do you get per rank? Is it 1, 2, 3 or is it 5, 10, 15? There was a build where it set Sources to give +5 to a stat per use but if the .EXE didn't patch properly then it would leave players getting only +1 per Source instead. That's since been reverted though back to the old 5, 10, 15 Sources so if you're on latest patch then something else must be afoot. Is there anything else mod-wise being used with it, or been used in the past?

I've run some tests, hopefully it can help you :

Everything has been done using 7th heaven 2.0 and the mods directly included with it

So, for me the problem doesn't appear only whith the "Field Animation mod (Bloodshot + Kaldera)" activated, but also with "Field Models -Qhimm catalog -> ( Dynamic weapons -> Cloud -> 5 Ninostyle) OR -> ( Main caracters -> Cloud -> 6 - Ninostyle)", I tried other skin for Cloud (with "dynamic weapons" or "main caracter"), the one called "Bloodshot-classic", and without skin -> the bug doesn't appear.
So you CAN'T have ninostyle skin for CLOUD (Barret doesn't seems to be a problem, I tried it too), nor the Bloodshot + Kaldera mod activated.

And the bug always appear in the exact same moment :

1 - Barret say : "I dunno. ... the others ain't here either"
2 - Cloud rotate in order to face Barret
3 - Cloud say  : "We went into the cave.. and then"

So the bug is appearing between 2 and 3 -> Cloud rotate to face Barret, but never start to talk.

Edit : Precised that I used 7th heaven 2.0 to get and manage the mods.

So I checked the location you mentioned, and it turns out Cloud is missing an Animation#7 which he tries to call during that scene. That should have caused the scene to softlock in general so not sure why it only does with a mod applied, but I'll add a #7 for him and that'll hopefully fix it. Quite a rudimentary thing I've missed there.

I solved it. There was an old instance of NT running with the new one. Not sure what else besides that is messed up now though.

Ah I see. Unless the old version was 1.4 or a very old build of 1.5, then it should be OK. Keep an eye on your Rank tally though; if it bugs out and stops giving ranks/gives infinite ranks then let me know.

 

[Lukey_Bug]

Ah I see. Unless the old version was 1.4 or a very old build of 1.5, then it should be OK. Keep an eye on your Rank tally though; if it bugs out and stops giving ranks/gives infinite ranks then let me know.

I seem to recall there was a reset for ranks(at least in whichever build I played last). Is it still in this build? And if so, where? I don't want to have wasted 4 ranks worth of stats.

EDIT: Or i could just use item lock and catch up that way. Would probably be easier.

 

[Zara9]

Hey sega chief

can you make me a private patch 1.5 updated version of your 7th heaven NT mod please

here are the things i want on it

1:automatic win on submarine mini game after the carry armor boss fight

2:cloud automaully clasping in snow field after checking the map

3:automatic win on the train mission

4:bypass the guard boss fight in the sierra masion

thanks

 

[Sega Chief]

I seem to recall there was a reset for ranks(at least in whichever build I played last). Is it still in this build? And if so, where? I don't want to have wasted 4 ranks worth of stats.

EDIT: Or i could just use item lock and catch up that way. Would probably be easier.

A reset may be added in future (depends on how the .exe is), but hasn't been yet.

 

[Ayoyo]

Quadra selects a random target then directs all 4 casts onto that target, with half the original potency. I'm not sure if it's compatible with the All effect but Mega-All can override certain things with Master Command so maybe it can do it with Master Magic as well. Things tend to get a bit wild when combining all the different effects together as the engine starts to get overwhelmed; it's possible to quadra-cast Limit Breaks for instance.

Oh dear, quadra&mime memes are still in the game? Please chief, isn't it high time to do your mod a service and take 'em out or modify them so they're not completely silly and devolve the otherwise awesome lategame to a spam fest? I'm weak of mind, and I just know all those hours of strategic combat & careful planning are flying right out of the window when I get them...

 

[Sega Chief]

Oh dear, quadra&mime memes are still in the game? Please chief, isn't it high time to do your mod a service and take 'em out or modify them so they're not completely silly and devolve the otherwise awesome lategame to a spam fest? I'm weak of mind, and I just know all those hours of strategic combat & careful planning are flying right out of the window when I get them...

I'm not a fan of Quadra functionally speaking, but it'll be staying in for the foreseeable future. Mime is quite fun though.

 

[Ayoyo]

I'm not a fan of Quadra functionally speaking, but it'll be staying in for the foreseeable future. Mime is quite fun though.

Really, it stays as-is for 2.0 as well? Gee, I wonder how I'm gonna beat the lategame bosses when it comes around. Probably with the same spam that everyone does presently as well. I mean I jest but it doesn't feel ideal, the mod has an involving & balanced system in place where cheap catchall methods shouldn't need to exist, and bosses are done so beautifully with unique & complex coding but none of it will matter when the same spam can be used to defeat them. Doesn't that sort of undermine the work you've put in too? I'm really surprised if I'm alone in begging for an approach where strategy will matter in the endgame as well considering added strategy is one of the main draws of the mod in the first place.

Yea I guess mime isn't so bad but it exarcebates the issue, though quadra is indeed the main culprit. Speaking of 2.0, when's it come out? 

 

[Drayenn]

Got an error while doing the Safer Cait Sith fight. An unknown exception occured a while into the fight as I was casting Ultima on it. Very frustrating. Any ideas why?

 

[Sega Chief]

Really, it stays as-is for 2.0 as well? Gee, I wonder how I'm gonna beat the lategame bosses when it comes around. Probably with the same spam that everyone does presently as well. I mean I jest but it doesn't feel ideal, the mod has an involving & balanced system in place where cheap catchall methods shouldn't need to exist, and bosses are done so beautifully with unique & complex coding but none of it will matter when the same spam can be used to defeat them. Doesn't that sort of undermine the work you've put in too? I'm really surprised if I'm alone in begging for an approach where strategy will matter in the endgame as well considering added strategy is one of the main draws of the mod in the first place.

Yea I guess mime isn't so bad but it exarcebates the issue, though quadra is indeed the main culprit. Speaking of 2.0, when's it come out? 

2.0 is delayed, will make a post about it in more detail.

Got an error while doing the Safer Cait Sith fight. An unknown exception occured a while into the fight as I was casting Ultima on it. Very frustrating. Any ideas why?

What were you using to play the game (1998, Steam, R06, 7h 1.0, 7h 2.0) and are there other mods in play? It's likely some issue with memory or the driver.

***

Regarding 2.0, there's too much been going on the last couple of weeks and I decided to delay it rather than continue rushing it. To make up for it, I've put some stuff together for a 1.5 patch that has some additional features/content to go along with bugfixes. That'll be going out tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Chrysalis]

The game is a composite of several files, some of which it sounds like have changed while others haven't. The Potions being changed means that the kernel has patched (and likely the scene.bin as well). But it sounds like the flevel hasn't patched which is a serious issue. Starting a new game won't help either. 7h 2.0 seems to have a lot of issues that aren't being addressed; the hext not working reliably, NT being locked off from mod types it shouldn't be, driver crashes, etc. If they can't help you troubleshoot the issue then I would recommend going back to 7h 1.54 as the mods themselves are the same.

There is an issue in 7h that prevents flevel been processed from a too far down subfolder, , but that is an issue in 1.5 as well as 2.0, when I personally tested dec 30 NT 1.5 on 7h 2.0 (standalone iro, and gameplay), the flevel was definitely working, I had the custom field dialogs such as barret asking me about the music and the save points.

Hopefully this gets figured out as I love NT, and I love 7h as well.

 

[kekko1285]

2.0 is delayed, will make a post about it in more detail.

 :'(

 

[AuthenticM]

2.0 is delayed, will make a post about it in more detail.


What were you using to play the game (1998, Steam, R06, 7h 1.0, 7h 2.0) and are there other mods in play? It's likely some issue with memory or the driver.

***

Regarding 2.0, there's too much been going on the last couple of weeks and I decided to delay it rather than continue rushing it. To make up for it, I've put some stuff together for a 1.5 patch that has some additional features/content to go along with bugfixes. That'll be going out tonight or tomorrow.

Ah, that's a bummer. But it's understandable of course; you need to progress at your own pace. Lots of bad stuff is happening in the world right now. Take your time. We all have our priorities.

I have a suggestion that could go into 2.0. It's a small thing but I think it's important. My friend was playing New Threat the other day, and he was having a blast as it was his first time playing FF7 at all. His enjoyment ran into a hiccup when he got to the end of the first disc though. When it came time for Cloud to swing his sword at Aerith, my friend made the wrong choice. The dialogue choices are "go ahead" and "wait". My friend, having not played the game before but knowing that Aerith died, thought that this dialogue choice was in the original vanilla game and that it was a typical JRPG dialogue choice that had zero effect on story. So he chose "wait", which lead to Cloud using a phoenix down on Aerith after the boss. My friend thought that the mod was going to ask the player directly if they wanted to keep Aerith alive, so when the game asked him to save his progress, he did, and of course he only had one save slot used because this is Final Fantasy and not Mass Effect (I told him to lose this habit).

When he realized his mistake, he was upset because he wanted to experience the true storyline as he was really liking the story so far. Since he didn't know that Aerith could be reverted back to being dead once the player reaches the Highwind, he downloaded a save file from the Internet and picked the game back up where he was, but sans New Threat. While he is still very much enjoying the story, he misses New Threat a lot because he finds the vanilla combat really brain-dead and unchallenging. I knew he'd find it that way, which is why I suggested New Threat to him in the first place.

So with the context out of the way, could I suggest an alteration to the text of the dialogue choices that are offered to the player when they reach that part of the game? It would make it clearer for everyone what the effect of the choices are. The thing is, even for players who know going in that New Threat allows them to keep Aerith alive, the dialogue choices are not crystal clear as to how they are going to play out. They don't need to be brash or crude like "kill aerith" or "save aerith"; I was thinking more of something more descriptive along the lines of "Proceed with the canonical storyline" and "Diverge from the canonical storyline". I think it's fine, and preferable, if the text isn't diegetic, since it really only exists for the benefit of the player.

What do you all think?

 

[Sega Chief]

There is an issue in 7h that prevents flevel been processed from a too far down subfolder, , but that is an issue in 1.5 as well as 2.0, when I personally tested dec 30 NT 1.5 on 7h 2.0 (standalone iro, and gameplay), the flevel was definitely working, I had the custom field dialogs such as barret asking me about the music and the save points.

Hopefully this gets figured out as I love NT, and I love 7h as well.

I think the issue was eventually figured out to be that Reunion's removal from the catalog bumped NT into an ID that incorrectly set it as incompatible with certain mod types.

Ah, that's a bummer. But it's understandable of course; you need to progress at your own pace. Lots of bad stuff is happening in the world right now. Take your time. We all have our priorities.

I have a suggestion that could go into 2.0. It's a small thing but I think it's important. My friend was playing New Threat the other day, and he was having a blast as it was his first time playing FF7 at all. His enjoyment ran into a hiccup when he got to the end of the first disc though. When it came time for Cloud to swing his sword at Aerith, my friend made the wrong choice. The dialogue choices are "go ahead" and "wait". My friend, having not played the game before but knowing that Aerith died, thought that this dialogue choice was in the original vanilla game and that it was a typical JRPG dialogue choice that had zero effect on story. So he chose "wait", which lead to Cloud using a phoenix down on Aerith after the boss. My friend thought that the mod was going to ask the player directly if they wanted to keep Aerith alive, so when the game asked him to save his progress, he did, and of course he only had one save slot used because this is Final Fantasy and not Mass Effect (I told him to lose this habit).

When he realized his mistake, he was upset because he wanted to experience the true storyline as he was really liking the story so far. Since he didn't know that Aerith could be reverted back to being dead once the player reaches the Highwind, he downloaded a save file from the Internet and picked the game back up where he was, but sans New Threat. While he is still very much enjoying the story, he misses New Threat a lot because he finds the vanilla combat really brain-dead and unchallenging. I knew he'd find it that way, which is why I suggested New Threat to him in the first place.

So with the context out of the way, could I suggest an alteration to the text of the dialogue choices that are offered to the player when they reach that part of the game? It would make it clearer for everyone what the effect of the choices are. The thing is, even for players who know going in that New Threat allows them to keep Aerith alive, the dialogue choices are not crystal clear as to how they are going to play out. They don't need to be brash or crude like "kill aerith" or "save aerith"; I was thinking more of something more descriptive along the lines of "Proceed with the canonical storyline" and "Diverge from the canonical storyline". I think it's fine, and preferable, if the text isn't diegetic, since it really only exists for the benefit of the player.

What do you all think?

It's a tricky situation. It was originally set up as a surprise (there was no option) so when the choice was added I had to decide between either explicitly stating what the options were and losing that element of surprise, or retain the surprise while knowing that it wouldn't be immediately obvious what each option was going to do. What I could do is set up a secondary choice so that if people don't like what transpired they get a chance to change it afterwards.

 

[evermuzik]

Amazing mod. Thanks for the help last week! Ive put in 60 hours and Im having a blast. Im having a new issue tho.

Working on the Sleeping Forest sidequest at endgame. I enter the dark cave, and its CLoud and Barret. They talk briefly and then nothing happens. I cant move and no further dialog happens no matter what I do. Its as if a script didnt load properly or something. Any advice?

 

[Drayenn]

2.0 is delayed, will make a post about it in more detail.


What were you using to play the game (1998, Steam, R06, 7h 1.0, 7h 2.0) and are there other mods in play? It's likely some issue with memory or the driver.

Playing on steam, no 7H or anything like that.

 

[Sega Chief]

Amazing mod. Thanks for the help last week! Ive put in 60 hours and Im having a blast. Im having a new issue tho.

Working on the Sleeping Forest sidequest at endgame. I enter the dark cave, and its CLoud and Barret. They talk briefly and then nothing happens. I cant move and no further dialog happens no matter what I do. Its as if a script didnt load properly or something. Any advice?

Disable other mods temporarily then play to the first save point in the reactor, re-enable other mods and resume.

Playing on steam, no 7H or anything like that.

I'll check through to make sure there's no issues with attack/AI.

 

[AuthenticM]

It's a tricky situation. It was originally set up as a surprise (there was no option) so when the choice was added I had to decide between either explicitly stating what the options were and losing that element of surprise, or retain the surprise while knowing that it wouldn't be immediately obvious what each option was going to do. What I could do is set up a secondary choice so that if people don't like what transpired they get a chance to change it afterwards.

I understand. I think adding a second choice (just as Cloud wants to use the phoenix down on Aerith) would be appreciated, as I think the frustration that comes with an unwanted scenario is preferable to avoid over keeping an element of surprise. I would also say that New Threat offering the option to keep Aerith alive perhaps isn't really a surprise anymore, as the mod has been out for years and has some amount of notariety among the FF fan base.

With that said, I'd like to also bring forward two bugs that could be fixed in 2.0, both related to music.

The first is during the post-Jenova-battle scene after Aerith's death. When the characters mourn Aerith, right before Cloud picks up her body (or uses the phoenix down on her), the music that plays is the Aerith Church track, not the iconic sad theme. Then when the game transitions to the scene where Cloud puts the body in water, it's the correct music again. This bug seems to happen regardless of the choice made before the Jenova battle.

The second bug isn't born out of the mod; it's something present in every FF7 rerelease since the original game was released, and something that Square doesn't seem interested in patching. The music that plays during the pivotal scene in which Cloud kills Sephiroth (in the real flashback) isn't the right one. It's supposed to be Cloud's theme, at a very precise moment when the music crescendos; instead, it's the Mako Reactor theme. I timestamped a video at the correct moment during a playthrough of the game: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/465552182?t=2h39m6s (the streamer is aware of the bug and goes on to find a video of the original scene as it is meant to be played). It would be really nice of you if you could fix that bug for us, because Square won't. It's been years and they keep porting the game with the bug, and it's frustrating because that scene is the most important scene of the game.

Thanks!

 

[Sega Chief]

I understand. I think adding a second choice (just as Cloud wants to use the phoenix down on Aerith) would be appreciated, as I think the frustration that comes with an unwanted scenario is preferable to avoid over keeping an element of surprise. I would also say that New Threat offering the option to keep Aerith alive perhaps isn't really a surprise anymore, as the mod has been out for years and has some amount of notariety among the FF fan base.

With that said, I'd like to also bring forward two bugs that could be fixed in 2.0, both related to music.

The first is during the post-Jenova-battle scene after Aerith's death. When the characters mourn Aerith, right before Cloud picks up her body (or uses the phoenix down on her), the music that plays is the Aerith Church track, not the iconic sad theme. Then when the game transitions to the scene where Cloud puts the body in water, it's the correct music again. This bug seems to happen regardless of the choice made before the Jenova battle.

The second bug isn't born out of the mod; it's something present in every FF7 rerelease since the original game was released, and something that Square doesn't seem interested in patching. The music that plays during the pivotal scene in which Cloud kills Sephiroth (in the real flashback) isn't the right one. It's supposed to be Cloud's theme, at a very precise moment when the music crescendos; instead, it's the Mako Reactor theme. I timestamped a video at the correct moment during a playthrough of the game: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/465552182?t=2h39m6s (the streamer is aware of the bug and goes on to find a video of the original scene as it is meant to be played). It would be really nice of you if you could fix that bug for us, because Square won't. It's been years and they keep porting the game with the bug, and it's frustrating because that scene is the most important scene of the game.

Thanks!

I'll sort those two things you mentioned in the current 1.5 build, I'm putting a patch together in lieu of a 2.0 release (had to delay it, was rushing it and things have been disrupted a fair bit with everything that's going on).