[FF7R] Remake Compendium

[obesebear]

Thanks for the read.  I'm afraid you and I are in a minority overall where applying logic to storytelling is concerned and, you know, 'Strifing' for better.  Instead, people are happy if visuals look good and their understanding for storytelling is as low as dinosaur bones.

  Just because a game has good visuals doesn't mean the storytelling has to be bad?

I've made the point numerous times across forums and on IMDB that the reason AC failed with a general audience is because the script was crap and no-one can care about characters that defy logic and reason every second.

Yep.  Advent Children is quite clearly a cash grab, or uninspired at best.

And this sad, pathetic little remake ticks the same boxes.  The dialogue is shite.  The script reads and sounds like it's been created by a Mom's basement dweller.  The eye candy is all over the place.  Logic is out of the window there too.  The pacing looks crap too because battles last way too long.  There's no tactics to be had.

I actually found the dialogue to be quite good so far.  Amazing? Groundbreaking? Heartstopping? No.  But neither is the original.  I find myself as interested to see what the new elements of the story are in the same vein that I wanted to know the story of the original. 

And the extra visuals are like Lucas dumping dinosaurs onto the screen because he could - not because it's good.  Same here.  More visuals just takes away from what made FF7 so good.  And, the main point, as you say, is that believability is zero. 

I mean, I'm sure if they thought a demake would sell they would make it.  I still don't understand why good visuals = bad.  Pretty sure someone made an NES style FF7, that may appeal to you more I guess?  Or maybe someone should make it for the Atari 2600?  Then the story would really be something!

The redemption arc for Barrett - all gone.  The darker tones and more adult themes?  Cartoon teeny bopping.

You'll have to refresh my memory on his redemption arc.  I don't remember him ever being a bad guy.   As for adult themes, the demo seems to be tackling the fact that a giant corporation has its own military, is actively destroying the planet, and is willing to kill thousands of civilians to keep good PR.  Seems pretty adult.

And guess what?  I knew all this years before the remake was even released.  I knew if they ever did make a remake, this is what they'd do.  And I said so.  Nomura needs to be assassinated.

So, you knew if they ever made a remake it would be a remake?  You knew they would release it on the current generation of consoles? Again, I'm lost.  Sure if they said this was a remaster and did this, yeah, yeah this is definitely more than a remaster.

I could turn that around and ask you why you like it?

Sure thing.  Well, mainly because the graphics are super pretty!
Lol.  It's a good story, the voice acting is good, the dialogue is well written, the characters are true to their original portrayal, the battle mechanics are good (it's not just press X to win {cough original FF7 cough cough})

It's the same difference except I'm not seeing any arguments addressing the points gjoerulv and I have made.  Why is it wrong to not like something?  On nostalgia - I'd say the only reason this game will do so well is solely based on it.  The majority of the people who are buying this without a second thought are the people who've succumbed to nostalgia - not the other way around.

It's totally fine not to like something.  But you seem to want to not like it.  Are you worried it will take away from your work on the reunion mod?  Surely it will bring more people interested in playing the original.  Like, if you read Game of Thrones, but don't like the show.  OK, cool.  So, only read the books then.  You don't have to watch.   You come off as hating it because you think people expect you to hate it.  But let me be the first to tell you... it's ok to be yourself.  You don't have to be who everyone expects you to be.  It's not healthy.

The main reason for disliking this is because it craps all over what made the original so good and it's such a total waste of effort and resources when we could have had a faithful remake at half the time and cost.

What does a faithful remake look like?  Seriously.  What exactly needs to be changed to make this "good" instead of the worst abomination known to man?

 

[gjoerulv]

I'm in the military too and I'm yet to have a female player lay it on me.

Edit: currently responding lol

 

[Izban]

But are you pretty like cloud

 

[Manakaiser]

i like it so far

 

[olearyf2525]

The dialogue banter is mostly really good as obesebear pointed out. I did notice two awkward/possibly weirdly translated lines? Right before the Guard Scorpion comes out Barret says something like "you double-crossing", is he referring to Cloud? Just sounded weird a bit. Oh and then the Honeybee Inn trailer where the new Muki guy goes on a P.C explanation of gender essentially "gender is a social construct" that I watched the original translated trailer for, they definitely took some Sony America P.C interpretation of those lines but the occasional psychotic ideations of a SJW don't bother me as long as it's a line here or there and not them wrecking the whole game. Honestly whenever censorship or alteration of the original work occurs the best thing to do is to report it to the Japan studio, often times they will be told "this will help the game sell in America" or they aren't even notified, if they get a large influx of upset customers mailing them unlike in the west Japan still responds to consumer demand. It's the reason why Tifa still has big boobs despite Sony America's "ethics" AKA SJW psycho department wanting to censor them even further.

One of the lines that really exemplified how good the writing was for me, and also pointed out by Maximilian Dood was when Barret asks Cloud his age and Cloud responds with his rank and Barret sort of responds WTF you weirdo I was asking your age but you are basically a 1 year old. Or when Jessie witnesses Cloud jump through the debris and he gives her that little awkward smile when she calls him cool. They perfectly captured the Cloud that is up his own ass and wanting to seem cool, the awkward and absent minded cloud the one who mentioned to us in the lifestream how he just wanted to impress everyone, to be cool like Sephiroth. Or how about when Barret asks him about Mako storage and the layout of the reactor and cloud's mind tenses up and he rationalizes it to himself that it's a different reactor and different layout and that's why he's never seen it before.

I'm pretty sure DLPB hasn't been following this game much at all and has been deadset on hating it from the beginning, likely because he sees it as some sort of invalidation or alteration of much of his own work.

 

[Tekkie.X]

That Double Crossing line is because Barret maybe thinks Cloud might have just betrayed him by not setting the bomb and could be getting ambushed.

 

[-Ric-]

I'm in the military too and I'm yet to have a female player lay it on me.

Edit: currently responding lol

They're amateurs. Silly, goofy, much like in the original? It showcases perfectly why they needed to hire Cloud.
Biggs himself says that Cloud is a professional, unlike them.

I actually found the dialogue to be quite good so far.  Amazing? Groundbreaking? Heartstopping? No.  But neither is the original.

Why do you even bother?

I mean, the dude that worships the dialogue of the original as the greatest thing ever written, is also the same dude that has spent years trying to fix it lol.

As for the people who think the combat system is basic and easy, I guess you forgot that you can best every single enemy in the original game by spamming X and an occasional cure spell or healing item. It doesn't get much more basic than that.

ike, if you read Game of Thrones, but don't like the show.  OK, cool.  So, only read the books then.  You don't have to watch.   You come off as hating it because you think people expect you to hate it.  But let me be the first to tell you... it's ok to be yourself.  You don't have to be who everyone expects you to be.  It's not healthy.

That's what you and most normal people do. Don't like something? Don't watch it, don't play it, next!

However, you're addressing an insane narcissist that actively brags about writing huge review rants that no one will ever read or give 2 craps about, and considers everyone with an opinion that differs from theirs to be less intelligent than himself.

he has been crying his eyes out for years and hating on the remake before there even was anything to hate on lol. Stopping now would be damaging to his little fragile ego so anything you say, unless negative, is irrelevant.

 

[obesebear]

I don't think insults will get us anywhere either.  In my limited experience, it seems to usually cause the other party to dig in their heals further.  I've found street epistemology to be much more effective

 

[-Ric-]

I don't think insults will get us anywhere either.  In my limited experience, it seems to usually cause the other party to dig in their heals further.  I've found street epistemology to be much more effective

You're not wrong. I have no sympathy and even less restraint when it comes to dealing with entitled, narcissistic people with a history of toxic behavior behavior.

I'm fully aware it's an unproductive type of response so if you or any mod woukd like to edit/remove anything I posted, I fully understand and will hold no hard feelings at all.

 

[gjoerulv]

If it was supposed to be realistic, you would get an uncanny valley vibe.  Nothing in the demo actually appears to be going for realism.

SE themselves made it clear they were going for realism. The graphics appear to be very realistic. But the battles don't.
If a thing can be musing it seem to take precedent over a logical flow.

Having been in the military...

They're amateurs. Silly, goofy, much like in the original? It showcases perfectly why they needed to hire Cloud.
Biggs himself says that Cloud is a professional, unlike them.

I'm in the military too and I'm yet to have a female player lay it on me like Jessie. And as Ric pointed out, these are not military characters, they are ammature eco-terrorists. I think that is very clear in both games.
But they act like this is a casual friday. Again, perhaps SE will come up with some perfect explanation(?), or maybe this is the intention. But I believe this falls down to the "spirit of story in gaming" or "cartoon characters" or "don think abouut it". The setting wasn't considered in high regard when writing this part. It was more important to let us who they are, and that could have been done much better.
Sure, it's kind of a nitpick, but the detail matters. It what makes fictional worlds believable.

1. Pretty sure I address this higher up.
I would agree with you if this were a Tom Clancy game. ...
...
Some of the banter is good and does help with character development. ...

Design choice and tone. The design is very different between the versions; how they act has an impact in that regard.

2. You'll have to be more specific on what the conflict is.

What I mean by design mentality is how SE is deciding to create the game in all aspects. How the game should look, feel, and sound etc. Match that with the statements from SE. They are very manipulative. Example from the top of my head: "FF7 remake will be a traditional action RPG like you would expect with focus on realism." Yeah, not a leading statement at all. Why would anyone expect that?
The term "Realism" is a staple to make it seem more appealing. But the game isn't very realistic at all besides how it looks graphically.
In the end, how you feel, and how it is supposed to be perceived, doesn't really matter. But the fact remains that SE are manipulative in their marketing by pushing their product in a certain way. This is rather normal for AAA companies.

When it comes to storytelling in FFs, not everything is bad, of course, but they lean heavily towards style over substance. That's so blatantly self-evident.
It's absolutely fine to like it, but everyone has a limit on what they can handle.
Would it be ok if Pikachu was on the mission and chanted "Pika, pika!" all the time?
What if Wedge actually was a talking carrot that farted a lot?
Rather extreme examples, yes, but the point is to show that everyone has a limit on what they can handle before calling BS.

Hey, if people buy and enjoy the story then more the power to them.

But are you pretty like cloud

Dude, Jessie would die if she saw me. 8)

 

[Mabinog]

I do agree that the dialogue and battle banter is kind of cheesy and cringe-worthy, but after I while I'll probably get used to it.

And the plot point that it was actually Shinra that blew up the reactor doesn't exactly sit right with me either. It depends on what they'll do with it later in the game. But apparently it could've been implied that this happened in the original too because Jessie says the bomb's explosion was bigger than it should've been? I'm not sure either way.

 

[mr_nygren]

To be honest i still hate the leggins and the black stuff on Tifa.. She needs the classic look.

 

[-Ric-]

And before anyone jumps at me barking moderation - you'll note Ric couldn't stop himself..

They're not gonna jump on you over such a weak response. (I hope).

I mean, being called a retard by a special needs, medicated, basement dwelling, acne survivor is amusing.

Holy cow...  they're making it in parts each charging a full amount and you guys are happy to bend over for them.

Holy cow y'all bending over with those 59$!

Really? Would you like a donation? I'm sure we could start a GoFundMe campaign or some crap. I hear people with disabilities tend to find support in those so I'm sure we'd be able to get you all those parts without you ever having to see the sun and risk the nasty breakouts.

you're not going to convince me

Of course not. They could release the absolute best game ever known to mankind and you would still not be convinced. As I said, you hated the remake and got emotional about it before there was even anything to hate on.

No. One. Cares.

Your opinion changes nothing. The game(s) will be released, some people are going to have a blast, others are not going to enjoy it and put it aside, and then there's gonna be the (hopefully) small group of people like you, who are gonna spend their time (which is more valuable than the 59$ anyone will spend on it) obsessing about it, writing 1000 word reviews no one will read, crying their eyes out, private messaging people whom might somehow make them feel like they're not alone in their obsession, and being miserable in general.

Enjoy! That's my last shot at you unless properly provoked to go any further.

Dear mods, feel free to clean up. Cause I won't edit anything out. I've said what I've said.

 

[olearyf2525]

That Double Crossing line is because Barret maybe thinks Cloud might have just betrayed him by not setting the bomb and could be getting ambushed.

Yeah I figured, I don't know it just felt slightly awkward/irrational, but then again Barret is supposed to be irrational/emotional. He's been with Cloud this whole time he knows he hasn't double crossed him unless it happened before the train.

 

[Izban]

From memory Barret was constantly questioning clouds commitment to the blowing the first reactor in original upto and including planting the bomb, like hired muscle that could be working for the enemy was a real concern and should be

 

[Dark Phoenix]

I just finished the demo, and I don't like it.  But then, I didn't like FF7 to begin with.  Still, was anyone asking for Final Fantasy 7 to be turned into a Dynasty Warriors/Kingdom Hearts amalgamation?  The battle system is deeper than "hammer Square until thing dies", but the problem is "hammer Square until thing dies" works WAY too well for every enemy in the demo except the boss... Who is an annoying fucker because the battle system doesn't allow for the kind of indicators the ATB system used to, meaning that most of the battle is "hang back until the boss is vulnerable, and then hit him hard for a few minutes"...
I have a suspicion that unless you prefer this kind of combat, most fans of the original FF7 are going to pull the new HQ cutscenes from this sucker and load them into the old engine...

 

[Izban]

Doesn't work so good against the sweepers or the grunts? Both of them were capable of killing my cloud when I hit square to win, demos do this thing where they usually make you op or give you higher drop rates.

 

[-Ric-]

but the problem is "hammer Square until thing dies" works WAY too well for every enemy in the demo except the boss...

Which is the case for pretty much every other RPG/Action RPG lol. You rarely struggle and have the need to come up with strategies for random encounters. So yeah, no surprise here tbh.

 

[capgames]

I am rather surprised on a lot of the comments about FF7:R. For years people have been wanting a remake and now that we have seen game play, screenshots, renders, etc. all people can do is criticize it to pieces, and there are a ton of people making assumptions relating to things we have not even seen yet.

TBH i think its rather shocking. I am a fan of the original game and the whole series and when SE finally announced the remake i was all excited. The episodic nature of the release is one i do not mind. ask yourself this, would you rather wait another 4, 5, 6, 7 or more years for a remake? or be able to play a remake a lot sooner.

As for the changes to the combat system, its to be expected that there would be a change, and tbh, i personally like the hybrid system they have in the demo. It give a modern spin to it while having some throw backs to the turn-based system at the same time. Sure not everyone is going to like it, and making a game you really cannot please everyone as everyone will have their own take/spin/thoughts/ideas how things are to be done/written/designed/etc. The new battle system was really easy to get into while still feeling satisfied that they have not forgotten the roots of the core game.

The remake is larger in size because of how games have evolved since the original and the fact that they are adding voice acting to the game just makes that even more so the case along side higher quality textures, lighting, models, animations, etc.

Ask yourself, What is a game remake to you?
Personally, for a remake, I want to see an evolution of the game, I want something more brought to the table, i want a different experience playing the game that is different to the last 38 times i have played the original with and without mods and i want more detail to the story line. I don't want them to change the battle system between episodes/parts/chapters/whatever name you want to put to it, i want the battle system to be the same across all parts to keep that feel though out the whole experience. I hope it comes to PC to have the chance to mod it like the original

I have played every FF game there and completed them all, some more times than others, i have my favorites and there are some that i just despise, the ones i like, some people don't like and some that i despise some people love. Not everyone is the same. I own every FF title released (legitimately) and on multiple platforms from NES to current gen console and PC regardless if i like them or not because i am a fan of the franchise and I want more FF games so i show my support with my money. All i know is that i want more Final Fantasy and if it means remakes of originals i don't care, i will play though them regardless and would like to see FF8 and FF9 get the same treatment some day.

I want FF7:R to be a massive hit because I want more remakes like what they are doing with FF7:R and new titles too. I get that some people are not happy with the remake and its impossible to please everyone, it will also bring more of an audience to the franchise and i am sure people have been playing FF7 for the 1st time because of the remake, in turn generating more money for SE. what i do know is that if they feel that continuing will be too much of a hassle than its worth due to the backlash of the fan base they will just decide to stop and we can only blame the fan base if that does happen,

Some of the anger on here between old Tifa and new Tifa, Barrett with glasses or without glasses, old battle system vs. new battle system, i just find it a little petty. its just evolution of change, if you make something now and then make it again in 20 years time, you will make it different because you learned new things since, you have discovered how to improve it based on your own ideas, evolve it based on new technologies, etc. That's what SE are doing for FF7:R

I see no point in writing it off and calling it a failure till i have seen what they have done overall. I will give it a chance, i am open minded and will play though it regardless if it is a disappointment or not. At least i am willing to accept change and give it a fighting chance.

 

[Eyundis]

Knowing about them changing the mako reactor bombings so that Shinra frames Avalanche actually made me think of another change I see them doing.

I'm thinking they'll change the sector destruction so that Reno isn't the one who detonates the bomb. That way, he would't have the blood of so many on his hands and therefore it'd be much easier to spin him as the goofy backup fighter/sidekick to Rufus he was in Advent Children among other overall making the Turks into antiheroes since they're fan-favorites who survived the original game.