FFX Questions, related with Fayth and Tidus

[DarkestDream]

I recently completed the game last night. it a good game. i like the Sphere Grid system. but my hearts still love FF7

Anyway. after completeling it last night. There is one part about Fayth appear in Tidus dream and claiming that Tidus is made from Fayth's dream. Make sense to me, right? but wait if Tidus is really a dream, then why Jecht (Tidus' father) is real and able to go to Farplane, and Jecht still see Tidus as his real son? I havent got the opportunity to play X-2 (im not really sure if i really want to play X-2). and at the end of the credit, Tidus got revived by Fayth. ok im really confused about this part. is Tidus is really a dream or Tidus just happen to died then become a "dream spirit thingy" then got revived?

I dont care if there a spoiler, just tell me, i been almost up the whole night trying to figure out about Tidus dream thing.

 

[Masa-Buster]

Auron died but remained alive as a ghost to watch over Braska's daughter Yuna

I thought he was going to watch over Tidus? Thats what I understoof anyway. And yes like Hermoor said DON'T BUY FFX-2!!!! I have yet to beat it, and I never will.

Only reason I liked FFX was the switch players in and out of battles, and the Sphere Grid System, and how badass Auron was I never let him out of my party.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Meh FFX-2 wasn't that bad , as long as you remember that it can't really be judged as a main series game. I found it quite fun. It doesn't come anywhere near FFX, but I don't think it was really meant to.

 

[DarkestDream]

It was a long time since I played the game, but wasn't there some kind of connection between Sin, Jecht, Tidus? Jecht got sucked up by Sin 1000 years ago when Tidus was just a kid. And came to the future and went with Auron and whatever his name was Braska? They defeated Sin together...Braska died, Auron died but remained alive as a ghost to watch over Braska's daughter Yuna.

Jecht defeated Sin and somehow got reborn as Sin? I don't remember. But he is Sin...then Tidus gets sucked up into Sin's mouth. And Auron watches over him too. Because he promised Jecht to come and get him. Then Tidus meets Yuna and her destiny is to defeat Sin (Jecht). Then a lot of random stuff happens....

In the end Tidus fights his father Sin. And by defeating him he destroys the only connection he had to the world, Sin? His father, Auron and Jecht returns to the farplane right. And that is where it all ends....I don't remember anything about Yu Yevon.

Auron is quite a awesome character when you think about it. And don't buy FFX-2, worst Final Fantasy game to date...I repeat DON'T BUY IT!! Even Final Fantasy XII is better than that.

I understood that part, already got that in my mind but why Fayth claimed Tidus is a dream? If Tidus is from the past and carried to the future, then why he is not an actual spira human being other than a "dream" as fayth create him?

I must be overlooking thing

 

[nfitc1]

*SPOILERS*

This is something the game never really deals with. Jecht and Tidus are part of the Fayth's dream, not from the past. Something happened almost 10 years before the story began and some sin managed to pull Jecht from the dream into the "real world" where he became Brasca's guardian and the Fayth for the "final aeon" that would destroy Sin, kill the summoner, and eventually become the next Sin. During this, he somehow sucked the unsent Auron into the Zanarkand dream. Once he actually became sin again (10 years later) he was able to access the dream world and the real world and managed to pull Auron and Tidus into the real world again. Again, something the game doesn't explain how he's able to do these things.

In summary; Jecht was also part of the dream and somehow got pulled into Brasca's world. We're not told how or why.

Tidus was always a dream character too. When Yu Yevon was defeated, the Fayth "woke up" and the dream ended. This includes everything that was part of the dream (ie. Tidus). X-2 introduces the impossible plot hole of the "guy that never existed is still alive and you can bring him back!"

*END SPOILERS*

This, along with several other elements, makes me hate this game. Too many things don't get answered and I just ended the game asking more questions. I enjoyed nothing about this game except turning it off and selling it back to GameStop.


I was close to deleting the following because I'm mostly certain it'll get moderated and removed. "But wait," I said to myself "the Internet is a place for expressing oneself without fear of bodily harm as a reprisal like in your Elementary School days. You should feel free to give negative statements in the hopes that someone will actually read it before it gets erased forever and becomes impossible for anyone to see it and actually think critically upon the subject." That was enough to convince me that I should leave it so you too can discover the benefit of reacting to criticism. If nothing else it will, hopefully, make you into a better critical thinker and encourage you to pick your battles. Which, in turn, will allow you the opportunity to develop the dormant skill of forming constructive and convincing argumentative rebuttals. Who am I to rob you of that educational process?

I also can't stand the androgynous fanchilds that can't defend why they like FFX so much. They're just whiny brats who love the fact that it's one of the first games they got on their PS2 because it was a Final Fantasy game and they can't get past those two words on the title.  Voice-acting, high-poly counts, pretty music, and made-up-languages-that-are-really-cyphers don't make a good game! If you think that's all it takes then good for you for finding enjoyment in a game where the story was the element that was given the least amount of attention. It's a narrative RPG for crying out loud! The first 2/3 (or more) of the game is told like a campfire story because it practically IS! The story is what drives me to walk half-way around the planet chasing after some freak hermaphrodite wearing too much make-up (read: Kefka, Kuja, and Seymour). If I don't want motivation for going from point A to point B killing everything I meet I'll play Quake, Doom, or any number of ID games where the principle game-play mechanic was actually the thing that was given the most attention (eg. killing everything that moves and a few things that don't). If you CAN defend why you like it and don't believe that any other game that ISN'T FFX is a waste of the media it's printed on, then my hatred doesn't apply to you. At that point I just stop taking anything you say about the "quality of games these days" seriously.

Likely to get modded for my Ben Croshaw impression even though I'm not calling anyone in particular out,
  NFITC1

PS - Subsequently I archived this in case anyone is interested in reading it after it's gone.

 

[DarkestDream]

That one thing i like about FF series, it allow you to guess thing, assume which the story really fit right. that the reason why i love FF7 so much because during the timelime of FF7, there is lots of question un-answered but you still can guess what it really like. For example, what is the true purpose for Vincent Valentine to be Chaos, it answered most of the time in Dirge of Cerberus (great game in my opinion), why WEAPONS is there for, many other thing most of them can be found through finalfantasy.wikia.com. but i like the feel of questioning but make sense in the book. Compare to FFX, after completeling the game, i went WTF! it didnt make sense to me about Tidus and Fayth related. That is why im here to ask you all. i still feel there is more to it.


And i did research about X-2 is like. one of the game site said it based on mission. many many many of missions. after reading that, i was like it didnt have a feel of RPG to me. it didnt really follow what FFX is like. so im curious what X-2 is like

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Wow, it seems like we're all in a bad mood today! :-D

I actually really like FFX, although for a different reason from the fans NFITC1 is calling out (I prefer having no voice acting in RPGs, and graphics aren't a big deal for me; my first game was Super Mario Bros )

X does have a weak storyline, and I didn't like any of the characters much (although Lulu and Rikku made good eye candy), however, it's great fun to play. I liked the sphere grid as a character growth system. It meant that characters would nearly always have their own strengths and weaknesses, but it wasn't as constraining as the traditional job system; the characters could be customised however you wanted.

Also, it's a lot more "expansive" than the other FF games; by this I mean that there's a lot more to do in terms of side quests and such. The monster arena where you fought all kinds of monsters that you'd caught or that had been synthesised from them was a great idea, because it greatly increased the game's lifespan, as did the Dark Aeon side-quest; it was ages before you'd finished off every enemy that was in the game, and the challenge lasted much longer because the characters could go up to 99999HP and the enemies could be powered up accordingly. Usually, FF games become boring when you're at level 99 and you've beaten the one or two non-recurring super enemies, because there is no longer anything that can even put up a fight. In FFX there was nearly always something that could give you a decent battle, even after you'd beaten everything once. Unless you'd spent months getting everyone up to their maximum for every stat, the more powerful "original monsters" in the arena would always be able to stand up for themselves. Ph, that reminds me about another point; a lot of the monsters simply couldn't be beaten by holding down X or having a good setup; you needed a strategy to beat them. Not necessarily a complex strategy, but always something :wink:

Well, that's all I can be bothered to type for now

 

[nfitc1]

FFVII had VERY few unanswered questions. Most of the more obscure answers are in hidden scenes scattered throughout. I don't think DoC had that great a story, but it was fun to play. Its story seemed very forced to me, actually. FFVII's story does have problems of course (mostly poor translations), but you can't play a fantasy game without some imagination.

Wow, it seems like we're all in a bad mood today! :-D

I actually really like FFX, although for a different reason from the fans NFITC1 is calling out (I prefer having no voice acting in RPGs, and graphics aren't a big deal for me; my first game was Super Mario Bros )

I've actually had a very good day. Telling people why I hate FFX makes it better.

X does have a weak storyline, and I didn't like any of the characters much (although Lulu and Rikku made good eye candy), however, it's great fun to play. I liked the sphere grid as a character growth system. It meant that characters would nearly always have their own strengths and weaknesses, but it wasn't as constraining as the traditional job system; the characters could be customised however you wanted.

I'm going to slightly disagree with you there. The Sphere grid was an attempt at forcing a class system. My problem with it was the "leaking" that happened if you took the time to really beef your characters up (as I did when I played). I'm more partial to the License Board that allows you to determine your characters' rates of growth rather than forcing a class on them at once. The virtues that I like about both is that, given enough time, all the classes literally balance out (with the exception of summoner and Blue Magic). But the Sphere Grid allows you to go through one path as one character, then that character goes backward through someone elses. One example: Wakka can become instantly unbalanced if he's ignored before you get a level 2 key sphere and allow him to get to Flare

Also, it's a lot more "expansive" than the other FF games; by this I mean that there's a lot more to do in terms of side quests and such. The monster arena where you fought all kinds of monsters that you'd caught or that had been synthesised from them was a great idea, because it greatly increased the game's lifespan, as did the Dark Aeon side-quest; it was ages before you'd finished off every enemy that was in the game, and the challenge lasted much longer because the characters could go up to 99999HP and the enemies could be powered up accordingly. Usually, FF games become boring when you're at level 99 and you've beaten the one or two non-recurring super enemies, because there is no longer anything that can even put up a fight. In FFX there was nearly always something that could give you a decent battle, even after you'd beaten everything once. Unless you'd spent months getting everyone up to their maximum for every stat, the more powerful "original monsters" in the arena would always be able to stand up for themselves. Ph, that reminds me about another point; a lot of the monsters simply couldn't be beaten by holding down X or having a good setup; you needed a strategy to beat them. Not necessarily a complex strategy, but always something :wink:

Well, that's all I can be bothered to type for now

The monster arena was a horrible pain for me to keep up with and it was too repetitive. In order to get all the synthed monsters (aka, Nemesis), you had to capture 10 of EACH common encounter monster. By the time you get the capture weapons you're more than half-way through the game. This means going back through all the boring parts that you went through before getting in battle after battle hoping to capture ONE MORE of those rare monsters that show up in 1/16 chances.
The only other "side-quests" I remember are the cactaur "village" (which I thought was disappointing), the Chocobo Race to the East of the Calm Lands, that ludicrous Blitz Ball that was 20x more complicated than it needed to be, and getting each characters' "special weapons" (which weren't that great) and all their overdrives.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

X does have a weak storyline, and I didn't like any of the characters much (although Lulu and Rikku made good eye candy),

I don't agree, it had a better more original storyline than most of the older games. To be honest, I can't really think of another similar story in history. Someone will probably give me a example after I have finished writing this.

It's much more original than Final Fantasy VII for example. Final Fantasy VII is about as unoriginal as you can get.

Original =/= good

I'd rather see an old theme done well than a new one done badly.

And I'm sorry to say this to all you fan boys out there, but it's overrated.

Wow, you're the first person ever to call FF7 overrated! For all your talk of originality, you have an awful lot of trouble coming up with an original criticism (well, overrated is a judgement rather than an actual criticism )

There are two reasons why Final Fantasy VII is as popular as it is, and the other Final Fantasy games are not.

1. The villain design is very appealing to teenagers...aka emos.
2. A lot of sexual themes...teens again.
3. Set in modern times, especially people from the cities can much easier relate to it. Most people live in cities today.

>There are two reasons why Final Fantasy VII is as popular as it is
>two reasons
>two

:lol:

And aren't you a teenager? So I'm not sure why you're complaining about it being appealing to teens.

BTW, since when does Sephiroth appeal to emos? Oh, since Advent Children, which is probably where most of the "lol Cloud and Sephiroth are emos" crowd first saw the characters :-D

This is just what makes the game more popular than the others. If you would add the above things to Final Fantasy VIII, IX, X. They would easily beat Final Fantasy VII.

FFVIII? What? If I'm not very much mistaken, your "reasons" apply far more strongly to 8 than to 7. Plus in 8 the main character actually was an emo, not the weird definition that is currently used (I think most people on the Internet use it to mean "anything I don't like").

But 8 wasn't as popular. Clearly, there must be some other reason for FF7's greater success...

The monster arena was a horrible pain for me to keep up with and it was too repetitive. In order to get all the synthed monsters (aka, Nemesis), you had to capture 10 of EACH common encounter monster. By the time you get the capture weapons you're more than half-way through the game. This means going back through all the boring parts that you went through before getting in battle after battle hoping to capture ONE MORE of those rare monsters that show up in 1/16 chances.

Meh, the boring stuff was worth it, and it certainly wasn't as bad as something like grinding to level up or learn spells. Also, to be fair, there were incremental rewards; it didn't take long to get any of the area conquest monsters. By the time you had a few of those, you were halfway to getting some of the species conquest monsters, and by the time you'd got those, you already had a few of the original monsters :wink:

The only other "side-quests" I remember are the cactaur "village" (which I thought was disappointing), the Chocobo Race to the East of the Calm Lands, that ludicrous Blitz Ball that was 20x more complicated than it needed to be, and getting each characters' "special weapons" (which weren't that great) and all their overdrives.

I liked Blitzball

It's apparently something that depends greatly on your tastes, and the first game was far too hard, but I thought it was fun; comparable to Chocobo racing in 7 or playing cards in 8 :-D

 

[BrokenCrowe (Mendelevium)]

I beat the first game... 7 to 0... xD. i played it like 100000 times just to win...
(*is lame*)

 

[nfitc1]

I liked Blitzball

It's apparently something that depends greatly on your tastes, and the first game was far too hard, but I thought it was fun; comparable to Chocobo racing in 7 or playing cards in 8 :-D

Yeah, well, I hated Blitzball because of that first game. If the developers actually wanted to make a side-game that I cared about, why did they make the first time you play it so dang hard?

I never had any problems with chocobo racing, but Triple Triad was fury inducing since the rules kept changing.

 

[titeguy3]

I agree. The first blitzball game wasn't just hard, it was the *hardest*. No decent abilities, no good players. Even if you managed to grab the Jecht Shot, you never have enough points to actually use it that early on...

FFX was quite lame for TWO reasons.
1) Lousy plot, it was like the developers tried too hard to make it original (MGS2 anyone?). It just never grasped my attention, I never felt immersed into it like I do with other FF games.
2) *Terrible* character design. Making the main character a weak annoying sissy with no strong suits (first original attack you learn is cheer? really?) is NOT a good idea. The strongest bloody character fought by throwing a volleyball for Christ's sake...
3) It robbed me of my ability to count.

I could name a bunch, but those are the main reasons. Sure FF7's story was unoriginal, but I'd like to think it was pretty original at the time (or maybe I was just too young when I first played it to recognize/care about cliches), but I certainly appreciated the fact that it was immersive, emotional, and well-done. There was a lot beneath the surface (symbolism, undertones, etc...) that satisfied even those who loathe unoriginality.

But it wasn't the worst...you know a game is bad when you can't be bothered to even beat it...and this happened to me for FFX-2 (how the f**k did i even manage to get to the last stage at lv 30??) and FFXII (why? why must the dungeons take 2 hours to navigate? and what the hell is up with the countless unnecessary status attributes? disease? really? wtf sqare? I was dead before I even realized what it did and that there's no way to heal it)

 

[DarkestDream]

2) *Terrible* character design. Making the main character a weak annoying sissy with no strong suits (first original attack you learn is cheer? really?) is NOT a good idea. The strongest bloody character fought by throwing a volleyball for Christ's sake...

Wakka is very strong person in the game, same as Kimahri. Kimahri is highly customizeable, you can make him take any path of each character. i took Kimahri to Wakka path because of higher str.


And one thing is REALLY bugging me in FFX... Who is the leader in the group? On the cover of FFX game, i see Tidus, so i assumed he must be the leader of the group but when i progress in the game, i realized there is no de facto leader in the group. i noticed Auron is the leader but no one claim it. I know Yuna is somewhat a "leader" because she a summoner and the rest is the guardian. but Heck i strongly feel Auron the leader because he the one who guide them. That why i feel a little disappointed in FFX. i know Square usually have leader like Cloud, Squall and Sora (KH/KH2). but why FFX dont make it happen?

 

[nfitc1]

I always got the impression that Tidus was just along for the ride. Yuna is the true leader of the group, but Tidus is the main character.

3) It robbed me of my ability to count.

I'm assuming you're talking about the Lightning Plains. What really bothered me is that piano BGM that sounded to me like elevator music waiting on a VERY boring ride. But yes, 200 dodges when it strikes about 4 seconds apart is infuriating. It took me about 5 minutes to find a "sweet spot" that lightning would strike often. Then I got all the way up to over 180 or so dodges and I blinked and got hit! It bothered me that it didn't get "easier" after so many dodges.
At least it wasn't as vicious or annoying as the Jump Rope game in IX. *gag* That's the one mini-game I hate from IX.

Let me guess you are either a emo or stupid. No offense,

How can that be anything but an insult? Again, this is what I was talking about. DEFEND YOUR OPINION WITHOUT SAYING OTHERS' ARE STUPID!

but calling the plot of Final Fantasy X lousy, in my opinion it's a masterpiece. Like matrix ghost in the shell etc. It raises a lot of philosophical questions, and for the smart guy it's not hard to understand. Final Fantasy VII is a great game, but admit it. The main reasons it's so popular is because of the "coolness" of it all. That is why it's so popular among teens...it's probably the coolest FF game, but 10 is better. Maybe not the character design or the fact that they erased the world map. But look at the storyline and music.

Not the defense I was talking about. The whole "Look! It's awesome because it's awesome!" argument doesn't hold weight with me. You also can't tell someone why they're "emo or stupid" by saying that "in [your] opinion it's a masterpiece". I don't have time to get into this right now, but your logic is incomplete. You've yet to extol the virtues of FFX's plot.

 

[nfitc1]

Wow. You completely missed the point. I know the plot, I just don't think it's good. Don't tell me what it is, tell me why it's good.

 

[nfitc1]

RE-POST: Ya know, I'd really like to explain why I don't like it, but I don't want to waste everyone's time (it's a LONG reason). I deleted what I had here and hope that no one reads it. If anyone did, know that I'm in a bad mood because the latest WM/PrC update has gotten me confused about what to do with the string editing in AI scripts.

Suffice to say your post, Hermoor, didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. I don't like how poorly the story of FFX was told. It had epic potential, but poor acting really killed it for me. No, there's no evidence that Tidus/Yuna had sex in that scene. That was also my least favorite part about the game.
At least Squeenix got smart with XII and left out any major love-story even though the kids in Rabanastre hint that Penelo and Vaan have something together.
It's a freakin' ROLE-PLAYING GAME! If I'm forced to play the role of a character I don't like then don't FORCE him to cling to one character if there are AFFECTION POINTS that alter how the girls respond to him!! Lulu happened to be my partner the only time I played this game and Yuna still wouldn't leave Tidus alone with her!

At that, I'll save you from a wall of text and just retire from this thread all together. Just thinking this deep about X makes me feel ill.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Ahh wasted some minutes on typing that... :-D

Yeah, you did. Wanna know why? Because you could have copypasted that summary of FF7 from any angry Kefta fantard; we've all heard FF7 being described that way a million times :-D

But moving on, I'll show you a trick that you can use when arguing about FF games; it's super effective!

The plot of FF10 is this: Whiny teenager has father issues, falls in love with high-status girl, saves the world by beating the big bad and then dies; every bawwws about it.

The plot of FF9 is this: Ugly queen treats beautiful princess badly, princess falls in love with a rogue and runs away with him, they beat the bad guy and everyone lives happily ever after.

Do you see what I did there? I over-simplified the storylines of those two games to the point of inaccuracy and now they seem very crappy and unoriginal; the way I made it sound, FF9 is the most unoriginal storyline ever and 10 isn't much better. But the real storylines were a bit more complicated than I made them sound. This is exactly what you just did with FF7.

BTW, what do you mean by "emo"? I ask because we seem to have very different definitions of the word. The way I understand the word, Tidus is over 9000 times more of an emo than Cloud is. Actually, sod that; we've already established that you don't know what emo means

 

[nfitc1]

And darn you again, Kudistos! It's YOUR FAULT for bringing up that character name thingy in the AI! If I hadn't known about that they'd both be released TODAY!

I am, however, glad you told me because it is definitely something that needs to be fixed. I'm still working on it.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Meh, I'm willing to sacrifice an early release if I can have 10% more awesomeness in my .bin editors

And maybe you can think of it this way: since you're fixing a problem that would have come up sonner or later and may have required different versions of your programs, you're not releasing 1.3 late, you're releasing 1.4 early.

I hope you found that argument convincing, because I certainly didn't :-D

 

[titeguy3]

Let me guess you are either a emo or stupid.

I always find it funny when people throw around the word "emo" as if they knew what it meant. Or as if it had any bearing to the conversation whatsoever.

No offense, but calling the plot of Final Fantasy X lousy, in my opinion it's a masterpiece.

I also find sentence fragments and following insults with "no offense" hillarious.

FFX *did* have an amazing soundtrack. Possibly the best of the series. But the game was just too dry. As you mentioned, the "coolness" factor was missing, but the game was just overcomplicated... It was as if Square got carried away after they discovered that they could make graphics really detailed, then decided to make *everything* really detailed. Including the plot and leveling system. Don't get me wrong, the sphere system was followable, but if I'd wanted to spend half an hour trying to level up my players optimally, I'd play a text based game. The plot was followable as well, but over complicating it just robs the game of it's feel. With a game like FF7, you're given the illusion of making the decisions of the game yourself, whereas in FFX, things just happen, then the characters explain to the player what the hell's going on.

Case in point with the whole Yunalesca fight... I had *no* idea why any of it was happening until the characters explained it after the fact. Inclusion of a world map would've helped this a great deal, as the ability to freely roam the world makes it seem less as if things just *happen* and more as if you're making them happen.