Well to be honest Qhimm, I think you are being a bit unfair and over the top when it comes to which names we have chosen and what we have actually done., I don’t quite know what you mean when you say too literal, as the changes we have made are better than the original, more accurate and very often more intelligent because they conform to the whole meaning behind them and not some mistake and that is what tons of these are, let’s not be in ANY doubt about that. A lot of these mistakes have been corrected in FF’s after VII including Midgardsormr.
Also I don't think anyone was questioning that if the Japanese version used an existing concept and the original translators were too daft to realize the reference (instead outputting a nonsense name that doesn't convey anything), then it is naturally an improvement to fix it.
Having seen some of the changes (I am still not sure if you have read the full document at my forum
http://break-off.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=1003 I can tell you that a lot of these are simply mistakes and have nothing whatsoever to do with “making it sound betterâ€. I don’t understand how you can believe that this near useless translation team did it on purpose when all evidence suggests that the vast majority were done because they simply didn’t have a clue. The fact a lot of these have been corrected in future instalments says a lot about it.
However, even here there is normally a balance to strike; Japanese people often choose foreign names only for the "cool" feeling they evoke, and directly translating that into something that sounds dull or just weird in English means the feeling is lost.
I would say that most names have a good logical background, usually in mythology. Half of these names won’t sound cool to a Japanese person because they too would have to research what they mean. They would have no more idea what a Midgardsormr is than we do before we look into Norse. That is 1 example. There are hundreds. By your logic, if Cloud sound poor to a French person he can opt to call him “claude†I am afraid it all breaks down and becomes a disaster if we start dictating what is or isn’t acceptable. Cloud and strife are chosen specifically to refer to cloud’s mental state being clouded, and strife as ‘in trouble’. Changing his name takes away from this and does not add to it. Unfortunately every other country needs to know English to get that background but so do the Japanese. For the most part FF7’s monsters and names were made from English words. That is how they chose to do it.
This is often just as important as the literal meaning of the original word, and it is the translators job to try to strike a balance when there is no translation that is both literally, connotationally and emotionally accurate (i.e. most of the time).
Again, the literal word is often completely acceptable. Not always, which is why we might have to leave Death Blow, even though it means “certain kill†or “Special Techniqueâ€, but most of them needed no such adjustment.
In my opinion, a perfect example is the translation of Chrono Trigger's Schala and Janus -- the original Japanese had them as "Sarah" and "Jack". The names sounded cool to them and enhanced the foreign and out-of-place feel of the ancient Zeal kingdom, but had those names been used as-is in the English version, they would have accomplished the complete opposite and detracted from the experience.
That is just tough luck. A name is a name. No one has the right to overrule the author because they think it sounds better (unless they have been given authority by them to change ones that sound “badâ€). Where there is lee way there is lee way, but strictly, names are not for changing. I can understand that some people names like Tina sound crap to most westerners and very exotic to Japanese but that is their fault, not the translators and in the case of VII there were no such problems. So this particular example doesn’t apply here. A name is a combination of letters, there is no good or bad, it is all subjective. Most people might think Tina sounds bad and Terra sounds great, well tough luck because that is what the author chose and he may have had his own reasons for chosing it which were not dependant on it sounding cool. (see cloud strife and Barrett fire arms to name 2). I take your point about that affecting the “feel†of the game but it is usually a minor occurrence and again, I say, it is just tough Titty.
Instead, the translator invented new names (though based the originals) that evoked roughly similar feelings in English audience as the original names did to Japanese people, and credit should go to him for that.
A translator translates; he does not dictate what is or is not acceptable. He has no authority to change things like that and this is the reason we have a stereotypical black man in VII when we should have a decent character who doesn’t conform to that stupid and off-putting caricature. You see it works both ways. The translators thought Mr T would be a good idea for VII and instead all it does it make him look like a dumb useless idiot there purely for comic relief. No translator has the right to change a character’s personality. So although you feel changing names is a good thing you have to realise that Translators do not always make good sound choices and sometimes butcher a character as they did with VII.
The other point to consider is that when Japanese people put in references to Japanese culture in their writing, it is meant to be easily recognizable (like references to English culture are to us).
That simply isn’t true. A lot of the references are mythological and have no more meaning to Japanese gamers than they do to us.
This retranslation project clearly aims for a very literal translation, and this should be kept in mind when viewing it
No, it doesn’t. It aims to be faithful to the original creator’s designs and choices. Weapons, armours and accessories and all that goes with it are literal by their very design. There is often NO lee way. NO amount of change required, and most of the changes in VII are mistakes.
If you mean the dialogue, then you are also wrong. We will make this stick to the facts and change it so that the characters retain the personality they were intended to have. The dialogue has lee way, the non dialogue does not. Dialogue in VII was also poor on the whole with many mistakes including ones that ruined the plot (originally Zeng dies in PSX English for example). There are many more of those examples, albeit not as down right disastrous.
Since no changes are being made to accommodate the target audience, it thus remains Japanese.
No, it doesn’t. The Japanese use English, German, French, Chinese words in most of the non dialogue, with mythology strongly attached, some from Japanese. These should be retained. If we want dumbed down FF, then best start changing Odin to “Horse manâ€, Ramu to “Lightning guy†and every single other reference to something everyone will understand.
Personally Qhimm, If you are talking here about non dialogue changes, I think you are way off the mark. If you are talking about dialogue changes, we haven’t made any yet and when we do you will see that lots of it has been rounded so that it fits in with good English and does not sound literal. That does not mean that mistakes are acceptable.
Let us be clear here, FFVII has a poor translation on the whole. Any professional work that spells “because†wrong and has sentences like “this guy are sick†is not professional.
Playing it will not give you the original Japanese experience unless you are well-versed enough to play it in an fully Japanese mindset -- and if you can do that, you might just want to play the Japanese original in order to avoid any confusion.
Again if you are talking about the dialogue changes, then wait and see before casting stones.
Also, I brought up your “Cut†problem and it was dismissed by someone who lives in Japan and knows the language well, he is 1 of my translators and said “They know the difference between Cut and Attack. As far as I am aware this is simply cut, and does not mean anything else.â€
I will ask others but given that 6 of them went through the document and did not point out that as a change I doubt they will be changing opinion (If they do, I will of course change it). Those names were designed for cloud. Same as “Cut all†(slash all) was. Some look just as wrong to a Japanese person, and since it was in the original version, I haven’t changed anything.
I think some people believe I am changing things because I want to do. This isn’t the case. I would love to keep Aeris (I think Aerith sounds crap!) But it comes from English word Earth and that is what the writers wanted. So they are god. End of. I would love to change to “Attack all†and other stuff but I am afraid as far as non dialogue goes, my hands are tied. I am called arrogant, yet it isn’t me arguing with the creators of this game. It isn’t me arguing with multiple Japanese speakers and people who live there and who agree with me 10-1. I think that is a worse kind of arrogance than I have. My arrogance is unashamedly saying that I know better to trust what I am told by people who know the god damn language and that I am sticking to my guns. I can’t make any apologies for that and I never ever will. People can hate me all they like.
I am not here to bend over backwards and change things because they sound better, that starts us down a very slippery slope and I am not going down it. That is why canon was thrown out immediately. Canon is a disease (Hojo’s brain in a computer? Get real. Genesis popping up from nowhere just to carry on this cash cow? ). I am here to make a translation that is how it was intended by the people who created this brilliant game. They are god. We are not.
At the end of the day, you are welcome to criticise (and let it be known right now that I am listening, but this stuff has been brought up 100 times) but I have no authority to go against logic, majority of Japanese people and speakers and the original creators. No one does. If people think they can do a better job with their own research then they can get off their arses and do it (Gemini is doing and I look forward to seeing what he makes of it when we have both finished, I respect he will interpret some things different but that is because dialogue partly requires a person’s own words and “feelâ€). I am sick of slaving away for months and months finding interesting stuff that others apply the most warped kind of logic to in order to attack it. It isn’t my fault that someone thought Ziggy Stardust would be a good reference for a monster in the Great Crater (I actually love that reference) and that some people think Gighee is better even though it means f*** all.
Yes I am arrogant, but that is needed here in order to get this done, it is how I have always operated and it is efficient to taking notice of 100 voices telling me conflicting things about what they want and do not want. There is 1 vision here, the original vision. If people don’t like it, they can go tell Nojima, Nomura, Sakaguchi, Kitase or create their own fan translation, but it isn’t ever going to be “better†than mine, because mine was made to the original vision and was done by listening to Japanese people and speakers and 1000 hours of research. I would point out that at the moment, I know more about this games non dialogue than any other person on the globe apart from the original creators. No I am not joking.
That really is all I have to say on it and I hope this has cleared it up. I won’t be back to explaining my motivations again as I think this makes it very clear. Again I would remind you that Dialogue is a different kettle of fish altogether to non-dialogue and I will probably be needing help in order to get it to gel properly and to sound great. It is a completely different animal. It will NOT be me overruling translators major objections and running rough shod through the game with “what I wantâ€.
[/Quote]you might just want to play the Japanese original in order to avoid any confusion. [/Quote]
Isn’t that the point…this is being translated because most westerner’s cannot do that?
This isn’t a rant or an emotional outburst or a personal attack. It is simply a frustrated and complete response to the many attacks this project gets- I feel, without any real logic whatsoever being applied, and a tunnel vision view that leads to things like Barrett “Mr T†Wallace and Spring Gun Clip. Saying that, there are many people who are actually in agreement with my sentiments and like all things, everyone has a personal taste. They know they don’t have to install the mod, so I don’t understand why some find it necessary to go crackers over this (again not Qhimm). I won’t even get into Removal of Cait Sith project, I want to live to at least 50.
Dan. / Colonel Almasy
