I had an idea

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KojiroTakenashi

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Would it be possible to apply a patch to FF7 or FF8, so that they can run in a plugin-type system for graphics? Or with SuperEagle applied to textures or backgrounds?
 
as this was discussed long time ago,
this involves intercepting direct3d calls and then applying filters, juggling with frame buffers, 3d api etc
can be done but it is madness :D
 
Hey, Skillster.  Long time no see. :D

Anyway.  What does SuperEagle do?
 
It's a scaling effect which also smooths everthing. It's used in SNES emulators and now, thanks to the debate I THINK I sparked, which went off and on for about a year, it's part of Pete's Graphics Plugins for PSX emulators, as well. Somehow, it smooths down everything while imaged stay sharp, provided you don't do any stretching. The PSX Plug I talked about does it for textures now (actually, a similar but less-nice-looking effect by the same person, 2xSAI scaling). I'm serious...Maybe if I'm feeling less lazy I'll go through the time to make screenshots...
Hmm, so it would be messy for D3D? What about software? Why not SuperEagle the whole thing?  :D
 
Well, I think it's possible. However, as Skillster said: It's madness.
Since you don't have the source code of the FF7/8 engine, you would have to disassemble the binary and intercept the Direct 3d calls. This would be a kind of "emulation", and as you know from several emulators, they're workin really slow. So patching FF7/8 would most probably decrease the 3D Power instead of increasing the quality and speed ...
However, it was a nice idea...

 - Alhexx
 
Well, instead of changing the code to actually call upon a different sound, maybe it would be possible to just switch the compressed sound files around?  I think that would definately be not too hard to do in FF7, as we know how the compression works and can add/remove files.

I dunno, it's an idea.
 
Uh...sound?

Hehehe...Emulation...I must introduce you guys to Pete and the gang XD Madness.

So yes, no direct 3D, but what about software? Hell SuperEagle in software with maybe some kind of smoothing wouldn't look too shabby...
 
There's a minor problem with using the FF7's Software Renderer.  It seems to have a speed limiter on it.  I've got a 1.5Ghz machine, and almost every time I've tested its performance in software mode, the battle scenes still have jerkiness.  While you'd think a 1.5Ghz can handle the software rendering and the supereagle filtering, it seems the engine's speed limitation itself may cause it to be even more sluggish.

However, applying the SuperEagle filter in software seems the most feasible thing to do.
 
There's a minor problem with using the FF7's Software Renderer.  It seems to have a speed limiter on it.  I've got a 1.5Ghz machine, and almost every time I've tested its performance in software mode, the battle scenes still have jerkiness.  While you'd think a 1.5Ghz can handle the software rendering and the supereagle filtering, it seems the engine's speed limitation itself may cause it to be even more sluggish.

However, applying the SuperEagle filter in software seems the most feasible thing to do.
Click to expand...

The same goes to FF8 as well. Whenever I used software renderer on my 1.2GHz machine some of the scene still jerks... hmm bad porting?  :P Or maybe Square set a FPS limit in Software... dunno...

Well I thought SuperEagle needs quite a decent processor to run it smoothly??... Hmm...
 
Wait......

The jerkiness could come from the engine attempting to cap the framerate, sorta like a fish tryin' to swim upstream.  If the SuperEagle filter puts enough additional load on the CPU to make the thing not need an FPS cap to stay at, say, 60fps, then perhaps the jerkiness would cease, since the engine's not struggling so much.....

Do you guys follow me here?
 
Wait......

The jerkiness could come from the engine attempting to cap the framerate, sorta like a fish tryin' to swim upstream.  If the SuperEagle filter puts enough additional load on the CPU to make the thing not need an FPS cap to stay at, say, 60fps, then perhaps the jerkiness would cease, since the engine's not struggling so much.....

Do you guys follow me here?
Click to expand...

Mmm.. yeah sort of. But wouldn't slower machines suffer if more load is added on the CPU  :P ?? I mean this method will work for faster CPUs... right??
 
Right, but it seems that the jerkiness only applies to machines that are too fast.  The SuperEagle thing oughtta be a selectable option in the config, so that slower users can turn it off.  As it is, most people want to use their Hardware Acceleration anyway, and wouldn't be able to use it.

Plus, if SuperEagle is as processor intensive as you make it sound to be, chances are only the machines that are too fast for FF7 would be able to use it anyway.
 
SuperEagle isn't that intensive. I can run it on textures (using a PSX emulator plugin) WITH screen-smoothing (hardware drawing trick, looks nice) AND 4xFSAA. And I have a Geforce 2 Pro ~_^. It's all in how you optimize, baby. I think Eagle might have a slowdown on machines slower than mine if, say, you put it on full screen. Then again, we're talking about a slow resolution here. 2xSAI could be used instead, maybe. Hmm...I think I just opened up a can of worms...again ^.^;
 
i guess i hve to eat my words
pete has 2x sai hi res in his gpu plug ins, and it roxors :)
but intercepting/wrapping 3d api would be a long thing.
ps: yea 1st post in many, but i do read topics, have been for a few months :) keeping an eye on the remake which seems to have gone into reverse :P
 
As for the software FPS limitator: I'm not sure how it is with the latest FF7 patches, however, I remember having some problems with the scene on the bike. You know which one? When you have to escape, your group in a lorry and you on a bike. When I changed my machine from my PII 266 to Duron 800, I wasn't even able to handle that scene. It was simply too fast ... but if I'm right, that was aon hardware renderer .... ??

 - Alhexx
 
Yes, large parts of FF7 does not have internal timing, instead they depend on the PSX processor speed. When they ported it to PC, it seems they "forgot" about the bike race  :-?
 
Yes, large parts of FF7 does not have internal timing, instead they depend on the PSX processor speed. When they ported it to PC, it seems they "forgot" about the bike race  :-?
Click to expand...

Oh true.. yeah now I remember that. When I was using my old P2 350MHz the bike worked well (hardware full screen) but when I used my 1.2GHz everything went too fast ... lol it's like.... motor racing hehehe...
 
You know, replaying that scene with my newer hardware, I have NO idea how I survived that. Hehe...must be the reflexes... Actually, I think the race depends mostly on GPU speed. I remember having an old Voodoo2 and it ran sort of slow, then I upgraded the drivers, and it ran pretty fast...blarg, with all the updates I made to this machine as of late it was so fast I couldn't let myself blink.
 
Actually, when you run the bike scene in the software mode, the road textures (you know, the lines on the road) are not there.  In hardware mode, everything's there, and yeah, if you think its too fast on a 1.2Ghz, try it on a 1.5Ghz!!!

But, why are the road textures missing in software mode?
 
I think the game was written with hardware mode in mind.  (Most everyone plays with hardware mode, anyway.)  Maybe they didn't test it as much with software mode and didn't notice their texture error.  Maybe the bike chase game was tested much anyway because of the speed problems.

Heck, that would've been one of my favorite parts to test :-p
 
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