D
Darkness
Guest
im almost positive thats wrong. the only thing the number 48 is linked to is the number of audio channels on the ps2.
- Status
Q
Qhimm
Guest
SaiNT: Amazing, you were able to sum up all my thoughts on the PC market in that short post. I couldn't agree more. Console programmers do tend to spend more work perfecting the game, and since the hardware is common they can add these little extras without worry. But the PC style grows deep, just look at companies who port PC games to PS2 - often not a pretty sight.
Darkness: No, 48GB/s is correct. The PS2 GPU utilizes a 2560-bit bus capable of 48GB/s.
-- WARNING: PERSONAL OPINION FOLLOWS --
Lastly, I don't agree at all with people saying the PS2 is nothing crap, surviving on the marketing hype. There's a reason well-known development companies like Square choose to work with PS2, and it isn't "hype". I've met people (no relation to this topic) who've bashed the PS2, saying it's crap, the system specs compare to their 5-year-old PC, how their PC would whoop the PS2's ass, there aren't any good games for the PS2, it's horribly overrated and hyped by Sony etc. etc. But then when asked if they'd ever played a PS2, they'd say "no, of course not, I don't buy crap". Makes it kind of hard to accurately judge the console, no?
It's not like I hate the PC market (I do happen to own one, and play games on it), it's just that I wish the sense of perfection found on the console platform (Xbox excluded) would find its way onto the PC market. I've played game labelled as "the embodiment of perfection", and what I see are polygonized people with more resemblance to a wooden stick than a human being. Way too many PC developers argue that a game gets better by making the textures twice as detailed (requiring 4x the video mem), or doubling the polygon count. They're not as worried about actually making good use of that extra detail.
The PC's increasingly powerful hardware is, as SaiNt says, a double-edged sword. Developers spend more time raising texture and poly count, and less time optimizing the game. The reason console games (not just the PS2) have outstanding games (IMO) is just because the hardware is limited. Developers have to tweak and optimize to get the game playable, and on older consoles graphics was very limited, so gameplay was the keyword to making the game enjoyable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the consoles are perfect, lots of rotten games get out there too. I'm just subtly implying that there's a greater chance of finding a good game (by my standards) on a console than on PC.
PC games can be a lot of fun, but if I want a game that's pure enjoyment, beauty and atmosphere, the PC market is not where I look for it. Flight simulators, strategy games, first-person shooters, all that is PC domain. Each platform has its strengths, it's when they try to take a piece of the other's cake things get complicated.
Crap, crap, crap. I wen't off rambling again. Just remember that these are all my personal opinions, if they don't coincide with yours, there's no need to take offense. Feel free to point out any errors in my facts, but please don't go off on a bash saying I'm wrong for liking the PS2 or having certain views on the gaming market. Thank you.
:weep: - near death after playing FFX since last thursday
Darkness: No, 48GB/s is correct. The PS2 GPU utilizes a 2560-bit bus capable of 48GB/s.
-- WARNING: PERSONAL OPINION FOLLOWS --
Lastly, I don't agree at all with people saying the PS2 is nothing crap, surviving on the marketing hype. There's a reason well-known development companies like Square choose to work with PS2, and it isn't "hype". I've met people (no relation to this topic) who've bashed the PS2, saying it's crap, the system specs compare to their 5-year-old PC, how their PC would whoop the PS2's ass, there aren't any good games for the PS2, it's horribly overrated and hyped by Sony etc. etc. But then when asked if they'd ever played a PS2, they'd say "no, of course not, I don't buy crap". Makes it kind of hard to accurately judge the console, no?
It's not like I hate the PC market (I do happen to own one, and play games on it), it's just that I wish the sense of perfection found on the console platform (Xbox excluded) would find its way onto the PC market. I've played game labelled as "the embodiment of perfection", and what I see are polygonized people with more resemblance to a wooden stick than a human being. Way too many PC developers argue that a game gets better by making the textures twice as detailed (requiring 4x the video mem), or doubling the polygon count. They're not as worried about actually making good use of that extra detail.
The PC's increasingly powerful hardware is, as SaiNt says, a double-edged sword. Developers spend more time raising texture and poly count, and less time optimizing the game. The reason console games (not just the PS2) have outstanding games (IMO) is just because the hardware is limited. Developers have to tweak and optimize to get the game playable, and on older consoles graphics was very limited, so gameplay was the keyword to making the game enjoyable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the consoles are perfect, lots of rotten games get out there too. I'm just subtly implying that there's a greater chance of finding a good game (by my standards) on a console than on PC.
PC games can be a lot of fun, but if I want a game that's pure enjoyment, beauty and atmosphere, the PC market is not where I look for it. Flight simulators, strategy games, first-person shooters, all that is PC domain. Each platform has its strengths, it's when they try to take a piece of the other's cake things get complicated.
Crap, crap, crap. I wen't off rambling again. Just remember that these are all my personal opinions, if they don't coincide with yours, there's no need to take offense. Feel free to point out any errors in my facts, but please don't go off on a bash saying I'm wrong for liking the PS2 or having certain views on the gaming market. Thank you.
:weep: - near death after playing FFX since last thursday
J
J*** H*******
Guest
Message
A
atzn
Guest
Well I guess what The Saint said was true after all. I've read that type of statement in a website recently ,when they reviewed XBox and compared it to a PC.
Qhimm: Probably it's your opinion, I do agree with most of your points. But personally, ok, I said personally... I prefer PC games over console. You might think the other way, but hey; us humans have different choices right?
I've played before a PS2 (although I never own it), Dreamcast, PS1, N64 and several consoles before.... somehow I still don't really like using the gamepad. But for games like Final Fantasy, it is an exception
I don't like using a console, really..
I play First Person Shooter, RPG, strategy and simulation games. Probably that explains why I don't really like to play consoles that much.
Nevertheless, we musn't underestimate a console though.... I've read in a newspaper a year ago (probably 2 years) about PS1... Saddam Hussein bought a million of them for their processing power.... thus I feel that a console has a lot of processing power.....
Qhimm: Probably it's your opinion, I do agree with most of your points. But personally, ok, I said personally... I prefer PC games over console. You might think the other way, but hey; us humans have different choices right?
I've played before a PS2 (although I never own it), Dreamcast, PS1, N64 and several consoles before.... somehow I still don't really like using the gamepad. But for games like Final Fantasy, it is an exception
I don't like using a console, really..
I play First Person Shooter, RPG, strategy and simulation games. Probably that explains why I don't really like to play consoles that much.
Nevertheless, we musn't underestimate a console though.... I've read in a newspaper a year ago (probably 2 years) about PS1... Saddam Hussein bought a million of them for their processing power.... thus I feel that a console has a lot of processing power.....
J
J*** H*******
Guest
Message
S
Sephiroth 3D
Guest
My 450mhz PC with my 64meg GF2 & 256mb of RAM can out perform a PS2 with no problems.
However, that's assuming that I'm running the game, and ONLY the game. No OS or anything. Just the game.
It's when you run an OS on your system that you suddenly need a 3Ghz+ processor with 1GB or RAM. Because suddenly, you need the processing power and memory for the OS, and all of it's sub-systems. Windows alone nearly taxes my system.
Can modern computers outperform a PS2? Yes. Can it do so with modern equipment & an OS? Not yet, but that level of technology is coming, and coming soon...
In the meantime, the PS3 should be coming out in a year or so...
Sephiroth 3D
"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]
However, that's assuming that I'm running the game, and ONLY the game. No OS or anything. Just the game.
It's when you run an OS on your system that you suddenly need a 3Ghz+ processor with 1GB or RAM. Because suddenly, you need the processing power and memory for the OS, and all of it's sub-systems. Windows alone nearly taxes my system.
Can modern computers outperform a PS2? Yes. Can it do so with modern equipment & an OS? Not yet, but that level of technology is coming, and coming soon...
In the meantime, the PS3 should be coming out in a year or so...
Sephiroth 3D
"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]
A
Aaron
Guest
Yeah, that's an advantage of consoles, they really don't need that much of an OS...
Q
Qhimm
Guest
The OS does account for part of the PC dragdown, but it's not the sole source of evil for PC gaming. We're still left with the fact that there's hardly two identical PC configurations in the world, a lot of subsystems, drivers and generalization is needed. The game has to be written at a very generic level, or have specific versions for specific hardware. Either way, programmers can't (or doesn't have the endurance to) take advantage of certain hardware-specific features fully. The result is that they only use the stuff supported by the average card, but use more and more of it. For some types of games, this produces a good result, but it's hard to create these subtle effects for atmosphere using only these... I mean, even motion blur still isn't widely supported and has to be pseudo-implemented by say, double-rendering each poly at offsets. This was supported from the start on the PSX, and that's quite a while ago now. That is one of the consoles' primary strengths, the universal hardware configuration. But now that console expansion kits are getting more common, I have a nagging suspicion in the back of my head... 
D
dgp9999
Guest
::gargles with tongue hanging out:: Oooh. I think I should marry my PS2 instead. I already knew that the PS2's bandwidth was enoumous, but not THAT much. I'm glad that people of your knowledge have clarified this for me, and everyone (especially my m8 who think his future XBOX is gonna rock. All I can say is LAAAAAAAAG!) He was complaining about lag on Blood Omen 2 on the PS2, I don't think he understands games have to LOAD!
Who manufactured the Emotion engine and the GPU?
EDIT: Also, I think he should look at the post above mine from Qhimm. Here John, here's your answer to why PC-converted XBOX games look better than the PC equivelent. Develepers have to cater for those without Athlon XPs.
Who manufactured the Emotion engine and the GPU?
EDIT: Also, I think he should look at the post above mine from Qhimm. Here John, here's your answer to why PC-converted XBOX games look better than the PC equivelent. Develepers have to cater for those without Athlon XPs.
A
atzn
Guest
These are my PERSONAL OPINIONS.... please do not start shouting at me for no reason
You can post your opinion if you want.XBOX. Why I hate it?
Reasons:
(vs. PS2)
1. Graphics? Am I sarcastic or what... well this is my personal opinion about Xbox's graphics: It's crap. I don't know. Everybody's hyping about Halo, which I don't see anything special at all. Also, you don't play FPS on a console, do you?? I've tried playing UT on Dreamcast, it was a horrible experience. I feel that PS2 has better graphics than Xbox, I might be wrong.
2. Gamepad. Awww... just look at XBox's gamepad! For heaven's sake. I am going to be 18 next year, and yet I feel that my hands are too small for the bulky gamepad. The button designs are..... ok I think. But I don't really like it. I prefer PS2's, it's more simplistic and comfortable to hold. (Also the nice ol' Dual Shock
)3. Lack of good games. Well, I don't play consoles, but I must admit that Xbox has not many games to offer. And look at the pricing of the games, it's ridiculous! 45 quid for a XBox game. A PS2 game would cost 10 pounds cheaper. Huh.
Well that's it really. If I was given the chance to buy a console, I would definitely go for a PS2. It's cheaper than Xbox, after all. (Although GameCube is the cheapest latest console)
A
Aaron
Guest
I'm also gonna go vs. Gamecube.
PS2 has been around longer and developers have had more time to get used to it. I remember when PS2 was new (in Japan), most all the early games weren't that impressive. Gamecube and X-Box are both definately capable of better graphics than PS2.... give 'em a year.
Very true. PS2's gamepad is better (and Gamecube's is cool too).
PS2 and GCN both have some impressive games. The only X-Box game that I've heard is really good is Halo. PS2 has FFX, GTA3, MGS2, etc.... and GCN definatley has SSB:M (enough said).
Um... I dunno about where you are, but here, PS2 and X-Box are both $199.99 and GCN is $149.99. Games all sell for about the same price ($50 for new games).
A
atzn
Guest
The reason why I didn't compare it to a GC is because I didn't see a GC b4, so I guess I better shut up about GC. What I know is that GC is cheap compared to PS2 and Xbox.
And er, you're right; Xbox and GC definitely can beat PS2 in graphics, guess I made a mistake there.
Made another mistake in pricing, yeah both Xbox and PS2 are at the same price. I was thinking about a few weeks ago, where Xbox costed 299 pounds vs. PS2's 199 pounds
As about games... I don't really think I am making a mistake here, Xbox games do cost a bit dearer than PS2's or GC's........
But I'm definitely not mistaken about this one:
GC doesn't have a DVD drive, but it uses a special CD drive instead (1.5gig capacity? or something like that)
And er, you're right; Xbox and GC definitely can beat PS2 in graphics, guess I made a mistake there.
Made another mistake in pricing, yeah both Xbox and PS2 are at the same price. I was thinking about a few weeks ago, where Xbox costed 299 pounds vs. PS2's 199 pounds
As about games... I don't really think I am making a mistake here, Xbox games do cost a bit dearer than PS2's or GC's........
But I'm definitely not mistaken about this one:
GC doesn't have a DVD drive, but it uses a special CD drive instead (1.5gig capacity? or something like that)
A
Aaron
Guest
Not entirely correct. Gamecube does have a DVD drive... it's just only big enough to hold 3 inch DVDs (1.5 gig). Since normal-sized DVDs cannot fit in it, obviously you cannot use it as a DVD player.
Advantages to the smaller DVDs: Well, they're harder to burn (I've never seen 3-inch DVD-Rs on sale) so this has killed piracy of GCN games, at least for now. It's also just... smaller. Not to mention that the track that the actual data is on is only like an inch wide, meaning extremely low seek time (which probably contributes to GCN's amazingly fast loading speeds).
Disadvantages... well you can't hold as much data (1.5 gig compared to DVD 4.7 gig) but 1.5 gig is still plenty for most games. They can always go double-disc or double-layer or maybe even double-sided (or some combination of the three). And of course, you can't use your GCN as a DVD player
Some people care about that, but I don't. If you REALLY wanna use your GCN as a DVD player, you can buy that thing from Panasonic (Q-something) that is a DVD player Gamecube combo. Unfortunatly, you have to get it modded to play US/Europe DVDs/games (I dunno if it'll do PAL, actually) and it ends up costing like $400. Ow.
Hopefully they'll be smart and release a US version.
Interesting thought... I wonder if the GCN can read 3 inch CD-Rs? I've seen them at stores. Would be kinda interesting, b/c then it would be possible for the average user to program for the GCN (like some people have come up with Game Boy or PSX demos).
S
Sephiroth 3D
Guest
Unforunatly, they wanted to release it in the US, but decided against it. Probably because the most piracy in the world come from the US. With a PGQ (Panasonic Game Q) you could easily make a DVD-R copy of your favorite Gamecube game and play it. (That's a theory, I haven't heard of anyone doing it.)
In Short, you can get a univerally modded Panasonic Game Q for about $400-450, but there are currently no plans to offically released in the US. :evil:
Sephiroth 3D
"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]
In Short, you can get a univerally modded Panasonic Game Q for about $400-450, but there are currently no plans to offically released in the US. :evil:
Sephiroth 3D
"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]
C
Caddberry
Guest
I actually thought that most of the piracy came from other countries.. like uh.. like.. well just other poorish countries.. people dont have the money to buy software so they pirate it.. this is what i heard.. not alot of crackers in the U.S. mostly script kiddies.. i am talking the hard to pirate stuff.. nevermind i will shut up now..
S
Sephiroth 3D
Guest
hey... I could be wrong about that piracy thing...
Sephiroth 3D
"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]
Sephiroth 3D
"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]
A
Aaron
Guest
Maybe some day they'll put out 3-inch DVD-Rs... there are 3-inch CD-Rs around now (approx 150 meg I think). I wonder if any gamecube games can fit on 150 meg?
D
dgp9999
Guest
FFTacticBoy: I know. I wasn't being sarcastic about my PS2. XBOX is s***e on a stick
A
atzn
Guest
haha lol Malaysia is well-known for piracy. One PC game only cost like 1.7 USD?
Even funnier is, if u buy more CD, they reduce the price. LOL haha.
VCDs are even cheaper, they cost like erm.. 0.80 USD? ridiculous prices. Not only that, it is DVD quality. Sharp 'n' clear.
Aaron: Thanks for clearing that
I thought GC uses their own tech for their own drive..... heh.
A
Aaron
Guest
Um... VCD's are definately not DVD quality, or "sharp and clear." Let's compare:
VCD: 352x240 pixels
DVD: 720x480 pixels
DVD is twice the resolution! I dunno about you, but I definately noticed this the first time I saw a VCD.
There are "Super VCD's" (SVCD) and those are 480x480 (I think it stretches it horizontally to fit on the screen). Not quite there yet though...
BTW, I think SVHS tapes are higher quality than VCDs, if I remember correctly. You can't really give a resolution to them though, since they aren't digital.
VCD: 352x240 pixels
DVD: 720x480 pixels
DVD is twice the resolution! I dunno about you, but I definately noticed this the first time I saw a VCD.
There are "Super VCD's" (SVCD) and those are 480x480 (I think it stretches it horizontally to fit on the screen). Not quite there yet though...
BTW, I think SVHS tapes are higher quality than VCDs, if I remember correctly. You can't really give a resolution to them though, since they aren't digital.
- Status