New Game +

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kiggles
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Finally got around to dropping by again.

The idea I had would function along the lines of selecting a particualr save file to load up. -- it could literally be any save file and not necessarily a clear game save. For example, take Chrono Trigger. You required a clear game save,  then loading a New Game+ the save you selected was irrelevant --. After selecting the desired save file, an app could hack in the apropriate values while the player loads up a New Game through FF7PC. Once it is booting they could simply close the app, and save normally.

An external app would likely be the easiest method. There will likely be a whole bunch of issues to contend with, such as who's statistics/level are dependant upon Cloud's, or are pre-defined within the binary itself.

If so, then numorous hacks would need to be made to eliminate and remedy all such instances, for a truely complete NG+ mod. Needless to say, such a situation would be a serious pain in the ass.

Anyway, I suggested the idea, because utilizing Jenova, to transfer every detail item by item between save files is a serious pain in the ass. Is just giving yourself master everything a solution? Nah, it doesn't have the same feel that an NG+ would. :) The key here is simply automation. The less trouble end users have to go through, the better the feature.

So let's assume character levels/stats are out of the question. Fair enough. But how about items/materia(+AP)/weapons/accessories? All of this can easily be read from a save file, and either actively hacked back into memory, or simply thrown into another save file. I am infavor of the later, since the player would simply need to select the seed file (which contains the equipment/etc) and the recieving file to be hacked. Click go and then they're ripe to load it as ussual. Yeah, it is a far cry from having all of that fun stuff RIGHT from the begining, but it is the difference of 10 minutes of gameplay, and we could at least pick up all of the goodies for the first boss fight.

Ultimately, a save file editor that is dumbed down but tailor made to swap items from one game to another quick and easily is a great and perfectly realistic goal.

Ah well. Just an idea, and I am rambling too much. If the coders out there are interested, consider this just inspiration. I'd rather the folks with the talents pursue something they are genuinely interested in.
 
Kiggles: "Ultimately, a save file editor that is dumbed down but tailor made to swap items from one game to another quick and easily is a great and perfectly realistic goal."

Exactly what I meant, but you have to remember, you need to have a save from the end of the game to transfer items/stats from.
So therefore I said it would be easier to pull the stats and inventory from the memory at a given time and then put them into a fresh save file.
If we can edit save files (Jenova, FF7edit, etc) and read stats from the RAM (trainers etc), why cant we do just that?
 
Well, it isn't absolutely necessary to have end end END game stats. Just let the player select which save file to use. This is exactly how NG+ worked in Chrono Trigger. You have to beat/make a clear save, but you were by no means obligated to utilize that clear save file for your New Game+ "seed". You could use ANY of the three save files.

Sure, we will miss out on the oppotunity for absolute end game data, but do we get anything from the last few boss encounters? I honestly don't think it will matter TOO much, whether we mandate the player complete the game, or even have passed the first disc.

I guess that will null the idea of a New Game+, but I don't want a potential project to get too convoluted. A generic --if however streamlined-- save edittor that would essentially just swap up the location of save points/scenario info back to the reactor would probably be the easiest on coders, and most flexible/easy to use on the clients.

Depends on how far coders are willing to go, howver. If someone gets intensely inspired to really fry their brain and hack the whole function/feature into the FF7.exe, who am I to stop them?
 
I see what you mean, so rather then having a background program grab the stats from memory, just grab the stats from any save game,
 
Well, it isn't absolutely necessary to have end end END game stats. Just let the player select which save file to use. This is exactly how NG+ worked in Chrono Trigger. You have to beat/make a clear save, but you were by no means obligated to utilize that clear save file for your New Game+ "seed". You could use ANY of the three save files.

Sure, we will miss out on the oppotunity for absolute end game data, but do we get anything from the last few boss encounters? I honestly don't think it will matter TOO much, whether we mandate the player complete the game, or even have passed the first disc.

I guess that will null the idea of a New Game+, but I don't want a potential project to get too convoluted. A generic --if however streamlined-- save edittor that would essentially just swap up the location of save points/scenario info back to the reactor would probably be the easiest on coders, and most flexible/easy to use on the clients.

Depends on how far coders are willing to go, howver. If someone gets intensely inspired to really fry their brain and hack the whole function/feature into the FF7.exe, who am I to stop them?
Click to expand...
that sonds like a good idea. Since you get nothing from the last bosses you relly won't lose anything. I hope someone makes this soon because I am allmost done with the game and I like to be able to have this so I can start my new game with my old stats
 
If someone is going to make this import save game feature. Give me a yell and i will start working on modding the creatures so that the creatures start from level 61 and onwards(61 because thats what sephiroth is). for level 70 or so players. im fairly interested in the idea of being able to import your save game.

however there are a few thing's that strike me as extremely bad idea's, importing summon materia such as knights of the round & neo buhmat would just ruin the entire game. Imagin when you meet guard scorpion and then just cast kotr on it?? rather pointless isn't it. In fact i think importing any materia is generally a bad idea. The is alot of materia i would mind early on, such as 2x cut or steal. but i think it would be best to just leave all materia out completly, even the ones you normally start with.
Items are not so bad, they should be left in so the player can cure themselves early on and stuff like that. also a phs system would be fun.

If this is made i will make two mods. One for Lvl70+ Characters & One for Lvl99+.
 
Using Chrono Trigger as an example, I would say the enemy statistics should not be modified at all.
Beating the bosses in one hit added extra flare to that game, though I admit that their level/power system was different in such a way that you might not actually kill the first boss in one hit after your first New Game +, while in Final Fantasy VII you definitely would.
But this evens out by the respective lengths of each game.
After you have played through Chrono Trigger enough times to match the time it takes to play one Final Fantasy VII, you are also killing everything in one hit.


Imagin when you meet guard scorpion and then just cast kotr on it?? rather pointless isn't it. In fact i think importing any materia is generally a bad idea.
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A mistake many game designers make even in real games: trying to decide what is fun for every player by eliminating potential.
You think it is pointless.
Some players just might get a kick out of using it on such weak enemies.  And for those who don’t, they don’t use it.
Everyone is happy.
Even if you maxed out the level of the enemies, they are still going to die in one hit, so using Knights of Round is just for the short thrill of absolutely destroying a weak enemy.

If you recall Chrono Trigger, you should remember that the point of a New Game + is to allow the player to get the items he or she missed while giving the player unfair statistics as a reward for having beaten the game in the first place.
The point is not to slow the player down with revised enemies.
And considering the player has already seen all the areas, he or she isn’t really going to appreciate being slowed-down, since there is nothing new to see anyway.


Imagin when you meet guard scorpion and then just cast kotr on it?? rather pointless isn't it.
Click to expand...
Most likely quite the opposite.  I suspect very many people would be annoyed if they had to spend another 10 minutes on this enemy they’ve already seen/beaten.
If they wanted to spend 10 minutes on bosses they’ve already seen, and lose all the Materia they already found (forcing them to spend however much time looking for them AGAIN) then that is for what the “New Game” feature is.

Don’t forget that these people have already been through all the challenges the game was meant to impose and already have the ability to start from the beginning without Materia and with “tough” enemies.


L. Spiro
 
I'm not against the idea at all or anything, but the thing is, what exactly would you want to do in a New Game+ for this game? With Chrono Trigger, you could get the Rainbow Shell and have Melchior make the other item(s) that he didn't make the first time. Although, to do it on one go, you can have him make three Prism Helms and then you can steal three Prism Helms from the three Queen Zeals throughout the ages in the Black Omen. You can also steal three Prism Dresses, too, so it sort of negates New Game+ for Chrono Trigger in that sense.

Okay, that was horribly off-topic, so I guess the only thing you could do is get items again? Or, I guess, items you missed...hm...I guess it could be fun. I'd be willing to help out in any way that I could.
 
Let's call this a little teaser. What would work (look) better:

1. New option in main menu:


2. Well, this time static screen won't help. You start with a "normal" menu and with "Switch" button you change (toggle) the first option to:


What do you think?

dziugo
 
I like the second option better.  Good job, Dziugo.  I look forward to this release, whenever it may come.
 
New Game + = Rocks
dziugo = Creator of New Game +

Therefore:
dziugo = Rocks
 
New Game + = Rocks
dziugo = Creator of New Game +

Therefore:
dziugo = Rocks
Click to expand...

That's not 100% correct.
IMO it should be:

dziugo = Creator of Rocks  8)

 - Alhexx
 
I like the second layout, looks tidier.

And if you make a New Game + mode... well I like the idea :)
 
dziugo seems to be one of the most promising game editors. Dziugo, please do Tifa's Limit Breaks first! Long live dziugo, creator of game rocks! But I really don't see a point to create a New Game+. Final Fantasy VII was fun for one reason (to me): Difficulty. The weapons were lesser than Darkcloud (of Final Fantasy III, the hardest boss in the Final Fantasy World) but still provided a challenge for those who wanted the Desert Rose and what not. If we truly wanted to beat the guard scorpion easily, then we would use a revised version of Jenova (someone in the forums made it, thank you very much caitsith6502 :love: ) http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=4708&highlight=jenova to edit it correct? There is practically nothing that searching won't help with.
 
Chronotrigger and Chronocross had multiple endings, depending on  the circumnstances under which you defeated the final boss. That was where new game+ really came in handy - you can go straight to the last boss from the start to get a different ending.

FF7 doesn't have multiple endings, but I think NG+ would be a good adddition, simply because once I've beaten the game I'd like to go through it again TOTALLY OWNING EVERYTHING.
 
hi there,

dziugo,
is this new game+ modification also meant for PSX ff7 ?

thanks,
kind rgds
Alex
 
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