Parts for my planned future computer... yay or nay? (I'm als

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First of all, this is my first post, so I'll just take this time to introduce myself. My name is Brad, but I'm most commonly known as "Implicit Distrust" or "Dry Ice CO2" on the net. Many of you from the FFAlpha, SomethingAwful, FF7 Eidos, and TR Eidos forums probably know of me. By the way, I'm the moderator of the tech support forum at FFAlpha.

Myself? I do a bit of everything, but almost always it's something to do with my hobby and passion: computers. I'm currently working as a technician in the configurations department at a nationwide IT solutions company called Compugen. I love my job. Anyway, now that the pleasantries are concluded, I'll continue with my thread topic.

...

I'm gonna build a computer, and it's gonna be a powerhouse. A $6000+ powerhouse (Canadian Dollars), to be exact. Yes, I do have money to burn. Yes, I should be spending my money more wisely. Yes, I have no life, or bananas for that matter.

Click here for the specsheet, the list changes as I change my mind, so it's better to just have it in one location that everyone can visit as I update instead of posting the list here.

Oh, and I'm posting this from work, and my ISP doesn't allow me to connect to my webspace's FTP server from outside locations. I have to be at the computer that my DSL modem is hooked up to... just some sort of stupid authentication thing that's beyond my control. If I ever change my mind on some of the parts while I'm at work, I'll have to update the list when I'm get home.

Speaking of which, I'll be updating the list to change the processor to the AthlonXP 1900+, so please disregard the 1800+ in the list. Any suggestions, comments, or questions are appreciated and encouraged.
[edited] 269 2002-01-25 08:50
 
Welcome to the board!

(Actually, should that be welcome back? We had a "Dry Ice C02" around here a while ago ... ummm [checks memberlist] yup. Member #138, March this year.)

Nice specs (and damn you for having so much money!). Only thing I could find fault with was having a DVD decoder card. Why? No point. Your CPU will be running 3 times faster than mine, and mine can do software decoding that looks *nearly* as good as a full hardware DVD solution. In fact, once you hit about 700-800MHz, software decoding *is* as good.

If the "unsure" part of that meant, "not sure whether to get one", well, I'd recommend against it ... slightly harder to crack regionless, takes up another expansion slot (and power), with no advantage.  Um, you ARE getting a TV out on your video card, right? That's the only possible plus of the hardware decoder ... but a complete new PC you should be able to arrange to get TV out through the vid card. Plus, hardware decoders tend to output TV signals with Macrovision in them, which isn't a problem with video card output. Not that any of us would WANT to copy a DVD onto video, but hey. Why limit yourself.
 
About the DVD decoder, you're right, a DVD decoder is kind of pointless considering I'm getting such a powerful processor. I guess I"ll just remove it from the list, that extra PCI slot will probably come in handy.

As for that Dry Ice CO2 member you found, (by the way, that's CO2, not C02) it's probably me. I wasn't sure if my account from the old forums would still be here after the huge forum overhaul, and I've since changed my internet alias anyway. In some places I'm still known as Dry Ice CO2, but not many since I've got my name changed in most of the places I frequent. To any admins who read this, feel free to remove my old Dry Ice CO2 account, I won't be needing it.

(edited to remove the quote tag rape)
[edited] 269 2001-11-29 05:46
 
Nice to meet you ID.

I do have to say that you take advantage of that quote function maybe a bit too much in your last post... Most of us rarely use it. I myself have only used it 3 times in all my postings on this board... (At least 3 that I can remember...)

As for your specs... Wow... Some nice stuff... But I DO have a few opinons:

Logitech Cordless Freedom Optical: I have one... It's nice and the freedom with it is amasing, but it's either super-sensitive, or agonizingly slow. Not exactly a good thing... (Forunatly it's my dads! :razz: I use a Microsoft corded Optic. Sadly, mines a first gen.)

Sony Multiscan CPD-G520: Sounds like an upgrade of mine. (A Sony Multiscan E210. VERY nice...)

You know.. if you want a DVD & decoding card... I suggest the Creative Labs Encore boxed set. It may only be a 12x (I haven't seen a 16x yet...) but the speed difference shouldn't be THAT much...

Lian-Li PC60 & 350W PSU: Have you ever considered an Antec SX1030 SOHO File server case? I have two workstation cases and this server case. All three are VERY user friendly in terms of hardware replacement. (Open the case with the flip of a side door lock, flick a lever on one of the two 3x 3.5" bays and you can literally take all 3 drives out of the case in about 5-7 seconds. That time includes opening the case!) The one I have only has a 300 watt power supply, but it has 4 external 5.25" bays, 2 external 3.5" bays, and 4 internal 3.5" bays. The difference between the workstation and the server version is that the server version is black with a blueish front, and has a power on/off switch on the back. (I'm gonna get one of these for my own computer soon!)
The rest looks nice. Good luck, and welcome again.

Sephiroth 3D

"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within

Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]
 
Well, hello and welcome to our happy place.

As for your specs: I'M JEALOUS !!
Okay, Alhexx, cool down ... :grin:
But ... AthlonXP 1900+  - and I've gotta run my 800 Duron :weep:

However, it's good to see that we're gettin' also new tech interested members, who will be helpful here.

BTW: I think you should be a programmer when you're workin' as a technician in IT. Which languages do you can? (is that gramatically correct ? I doubt it)
As for me, I only can *program* in (damn) VB, but I'm translatin' Source from C++ and Delphi for my apps, too.

Well, okay, I think that's all I wanted to post for now.

Okay, Cya

 - Alhexx
 
hey man....

i like it a lot. very similar to what i had originally intended to use to make my system, but becase i have a limited budget, i had to cut back.

Oh: and i finally decided on an OS. Windows 98, RedHat, and BeOS
 
I don't know very much about cases...but I do know that the Antex Powersupply is considered one of the best you can buy....maybe even the best.

I use the Antex SX1030b (the b stands for black) Case, also. It's worth getting just for the powersupply. Antex makes the best ones on the market. Since you seem to want the 350watt powersupply I would suggest the Antex SX1040. The 1040 comes with a 400watt powersupply. They cost anywhere between 90 to 120 dollars for the SX1030....the SX1040 are about 30-60 dollars more. (the shipping cost is what gets you....the case weighs about 20 pounds! It's almost all made from Steel with the exceptiong of the face and door, which are made of plastic. This is a tricky case to by online...I would suggest finding it localy. Being that most of it is steel, bad shipping can cause dents. (I got lucky...mine came in perfect condition...but a friend of mine ordered one....twice... The first time was badly damaged...the second one had a minor ding. He didn't want to RMA it again, so he just kept the dinged one.

http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=752

There is another veriant of the case...one that doesn't have the door...and it also doesn't have the fan infront of the harddrive internal holder.....but I can't remember the model number of that one....SX860 or something like that. The 1030/1040 is better because of the extra Harddrive holder and it's location behind the front fan.

As for the Motherboard....take a look at the Soyo Dragon. If I was going to make a system, today. It would be my choice.

score of 100:
http://www.socketa.com/reviews/

get the + version (RAID)
http://www.slota.com/reviews/soyo/k7vdragonplus/

Then get two harddrives of the same quality/kind 7200rpm Ultra 100's. and set up for Raid 0 mode. Only bad thing of Raid0 is that if one harddrive fails....it's like they both fail....all info will be corrupt. But the speed of the harddrives running together, will be faster than the Ultra 7200rpm, running by itself. (Looks like you already know that)

The board also has built in Lan. And if you look at the link....you'll find benchmarks compairing it to the Epox, and the Shuttle. (but the numbers are so close, the difference won't be noticible...and not all boards bench the same, anyway) But the Soyo has a lot of extras in it, that push it over the edge. Comes with a built in 6 channel sound chip. I'm sure it can be disabled, if you want to go PCI...you may want to look into that.


As for your chip....the 1900xp are out. (1.6gig).
http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=868

I have no idea how your gonna manage to spend 6000 dollars on an over the counter system......I doubt you'll go over 4,000, and thats with a 1000 dollar Soundcard and a 1500 dollar video card. The only way I see you spending 6000 dollars would be if you buy those Hi tech Harddrives. 10,000rpm  or higher.

[edited] 65 2001-11-29 01:13
 
i hate pricewatch...... sure it cost 75 dollars for a stick of 512 PC2100 DDR RAM, but its nonECC and generic, and half of the prices on the retailer's sites aren't what they say they are. It added an additional 300 dollars to the cost of my system, not including shipping!
 
Threesixty... haven't I seen you somewhere before? Possibly at Eidos... I'm sure I've seen that username somewhere! Anyway, about the price being a little too high, that's because these prices are in Canadian dollars, not American. Sorry if I was a little unclear, I'll edit the currency info into my original post.

About the Soyo motherboard, I'm gonna stick with my EPoX. I need the integrated audio for running my DOS games, since there aren't any motherboards being sold anymore with an ISA slot for me to stick my AWE32 in. I'll still be using the GTXP for my sound card, just not in DOS.

To anyone who's suggesting cases besides the Lian-Li, you're missing the point. I'm getting the Lian-Li case because, well... aluminum cases rock! Not to mention they act as one giant heatsink, which is GREAT for helping to keep those parts cooled down.

Sephiroth 3D, are you sure those problems with the Cordless Freedom Optical are hardware related? Sometimes certain software can gum things up, I know it does with my mom's optical mouse. I really don't mind if it's super sensitive, as a matter of fact it'll probably come in handy when making those precision headshots in Unreal Tournament and Counter Strike! As for the slowdowns... I'm sure this won't be happening with my system. Have you made sure that the path between the receiver and the device is unobstructed? This might be the answer to your problem.

As for the Creative Labs Encore... I hate Creative. Sorry, but I really do. Besides, I'll need this 16× drive for all the crazy DVD ripping I'll be doing in my spare time.

Alhexx: My job as a technician is mostly hardware related. I'm in the process of learning C++, and I already have HTML pretty much memorized. As for VB, I tried it for about five minutes and I couldn't stop laughing. Jesus H. Christ, that's one messed* up programming language if you ask me. I mean, really... arrays beginning at 1? Any idiot knows they SHOULD begin at 0! Many other slight things are also quite messed up, basically VB teaches horrible coding ethics, not to mention you can't cross platform your VB programs due to it being "Windows Only".

And... sorry about the overuse of the quote tags before. I fixed them. I just did it out of a force of habit, since such usage of the quote tag is considered common behavior back at one of the other forums I frequent, but since the quote tags here add some sort of blockquote indent, they do look kinda freaky. My apologies.

*  Damn, never knew they had a swearing filter here... I guess I can't say bad words like FUCKED anymore (Hehe, your filters are no match for my powers!)

[edited] 269 2001-11-29 05:47
 
I don't like pricewatch either....

These guys have good ratings

....I've used Mwave for most of my system. Their packaging sucks (nothing was broken, though. They did mess up on one thing, but it was a 2 dollar mistake. I had ordered the Plus version of Windows, and they set me the plain SE version, the price difference was 2 dollars, so I didn't bother with a RMA)....I think shipping is set at 7 dollars, at least for now.

http://www.kdcomputers.com/
http://www.tcwo.com/
http://direct.mwave.com

for memory:
http://www.crucial.com/index.asp

Use this as a reference for online companies...view the user comments.  
http://www.resellerratings.com

Kd computers carries that case.....

And I'm pretty sure that all ram above 256 is ECC....or at least buffered. At least I would hope so....the more memory you have the more likely there will be errors, due to solar flares. I read it somewhere.....Corsair's webpage, I think. Mwave carries Corsair memory, by the way. And Kingston.

Oops, I misspelled it....it's Antec, not Antex....

SX1040 Black:
http://www.kdcomputers.com/exec/productProfile?id=456
Regular:
http://www.kdcomputers.com/exec/productProfile?id=424

This is that other one I was talking about....got the model number completely wrong. SX830
http://www.kdcomputers.com/exec/productProfile?id=18

And here's one I didn't know about....a minitower SX640
http://www.kdcomputers.com/exec/productProfile?id=283

The prices are messed up though....well...the shipping is.... expect about 24 dollars for shipping these 20lb monsters. and the black ones are a little more expensive. It's also hard finding Black 5-1/4drives but with the 1030/40, it has a door that covers those White drives. Actually, who cares what color it is :smile:

The Soyo has integrated sound (6 channels of it).....Don't know if it will work with Dos, though. What Dos games are you playing? Some Dos games will work through windows, with no problems, but not ALL. Xcom Apocolypse doesn't like being run through Windows...but the first one will.

And yeah....it's the same from the Eidos board....I'm thinking of change it to Rengar....but I probably won't....maybe if I ever register at the Void, I'll use the new handle.

As for cases and cooling...the 1030/40 has excellent air flow. But it's your call. I just like the Powersupplies on the Antec. And Athlons need a good powersource. If you put a generic on an Athlon...your gonna get problems.

[edited] 65 2001-11-29 05:53

[edited] 65 2001-11-29 06:56
 
A lot of my DOS games (I've got over 100 of them) require GENUINE PURE DOS, meaning they're not in a Win9x MSDOS shell, and they're not in MSDOS 7. These games require MSDOS 6.22 (the real McCoy), not just the Win9x version of MSDOS.
 
Hmm...I find that hard to believe....
I have lots of Dos games, too. And I can get them to work in Dos of windows.....It may require me to hit the F9 key (F8 key?)...and select Dos from there. And I have to put the old Dos commands in the Autoexec.bat and Config.sys. to free up that base memory. But I don't have problems getting Dos games to work, once I take those REM statements off those EMM386, himem, 'dos=high' commands.

I just find that low Conventional memory to be the cause of Dos games not running in native Dos mode of windows, or Dosshell of windows, in some cases.

Try adding the EMM386 tag and the Himem tag into your config.sys. Then use the Loadhigh or LH (for autoexec.bat) or Devicehigh command (for config.sys....only  after the 'Dos=high, umb' command) for any Dos TSR programs you want. If you can free enough Convential memory, you can usually get the game to work through windows....

If that doesn't work, hitting the F9 (or is it F8...can't remember anymore) key right before windows starts up (you have to be quick) and select the Dos option. That will take you directly into native Dos mode. And I believe it's 6.22, but I can't verify that. (this is with Win98....I hear WinME can't do this) The only problem of going this route is that, now you have to load those CD-rom drivers into your Config.sys and Autoexec.bat. If you can get the game working through windows....you don't have to use up that memory for Mscdex and the CD-rom driver or worry about where those Dos drivers are at or the commands to activate them.

*****************
Config.sys

DEVICE=C:WINDOWSHIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:WINDOWSEMM386.EXE ram
Dos=high,umb
BUFFERSHIGH=20
STACKSHIGH=0,0
FCBSHIGH=1

(The Cd-rom can be tricky....some newer drivers just need to be loaded in Autoexec.bat, but you may have to go the old fashion way)

Devicehigh=     (wherever and whatever your CD-rom driver is)

(and don't forget the Mscdex for your Autoexec.bat....or your CD-rom won't be reconized....you can put LH in front of it, too. it may free up some C-memory.)
*******************


Put LH in front of anything in the Autoexec.bat file, if you have the first two lines of Config.sys. (or is it the first 3 lines....my Dos commands are a little rusty). I haven't played a dos game in ages. You can substitute "noems" for "ram" for more upper block space, the only problem is that EMS memory doesn't work with "noems" mode

Darklands
Daggerfall
Battlespire
Xcom
WingCommander 3
will all play in Dosshell of windows, if you have the convential ram open for it.

(I think you need the SBlive! SB16 emulator...in my case anyway...to hear sound, though.....and most times it's the cause of lockups. But I'm not certain...I haven't played in Dosmode for a while....last time was with Daggerfall.)

Type "mem" to see your conventional ram
Type "mem/c |more" for a more detailed version of  "mem"
(the "| "key is the same as "SHIFT " or  Shift backslash)

For best 'windows' results You should place REM in front of everyting inside the Autoexec.bat and Config.sys....unless you have a SBlive card and want that SB16 emulator on...then you may want to leave the Dos emulator sound active..... I find that emulator SB16 program to be buggy so I just put REM in front of it, too. I'm also limited on IRQ's and that emualtor uses one of them up.

Oh well...my instuctions kinda suck, cause I'm so rusty at it and it's been at least a year since I used them. I've retired all my Dos games, and with a 1.6gig processor, you probably  will too. Usually the higher processor speeds will cause all kinds of lockups in those older Dos games.

Well...here's  something you can use...it's a good AMD source
http://www.amdzone.com/
The forum is a good reference place.

[edited] 65 2001-11-29 06:53

[edited] 65 2001-11-29 06:55
 
ID: About the case, we're saying LOOK at them. I think the Antecs are Aluminum, but I may be wrong. That's why you should look at them.

As for the mouse, I have it about less than a foot from the senser, with the mouse pointing straight at it! And when I mean sensitive, I mean it! (I move the mouse the same amount it would take to move it from the X to the Restore button, and I end up 1/4 of the screen over!)

Hate Creative huh? I can understand that to a degree. Personally I've only 1 major problem with one of their products, otherwise, I've never had anything to really complain about...

As for a 16x DVD drive for ripping, I can understand that... Personally, I perfer my good ol' Pioneer DVD Burner, the DVR-A03! I'm gonna try and copy a DVD soon. The only problem I have with DVD burning is that the blank discs (from TDK) cost about 12 bucks each! (The Apple ones are MUCH cheaper though...)

Sephiroth 3D

"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within

Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]
 
Threesixty... wouldn't that just take up resources in Windows by loading all those DOS drivers at startup? If I were you I'd just put all my DOS startup commands in DOSSTART.BAT and choose Restart in MSDOS Mode from Windows's shut down menu whenever I'm playing my DOS games. That frees up a hell of a lot of resources, believe me.

Seph3D, I did take a look at the cases... they don't look like aluminum to me.

My uncle just recently got a cordless freedom optical, so I'll talk to him and see if he's got any issues with it. This is just for a second opinion, I'm not doubting you or anything, don't worry. And for the DVD burning, I'll be making VCDs with good ol' DivX (best codec I've ever seen), not burning them onto DVD-R(w) discs.
[edited] 269 2001-11-30 16:28
 
Not really, not if you do it right....and besides, would you really notice?  (one last note: I haven't played a Dos game in about a year...so I may have added too much stuff, or not enough. I'm going by faded memories, here :wink: .)

If you have to use native Dos mode, you interupt before windows has a chance to install. It's quicker that way (especially during crashes and lockups; it'll be a Miracle not getting at least one). From pushing the Power button to the old, C prompt , it takes about 10 seconds....it'll be closer to a minute going through windows and then exiting back out,, maybe even more than a minute....that's just Too Long.

As far as playing Dos games through Windows....I find that the conventual memory is usually enough....right now I have 564K of C-memory..... I have a few games that like something closer to 600K. To get those running I can either get rid of  all the REM statements and use the interupt key (F8...F9...one of those two keys) and start playing. (Haven't done it in a while, but I think I would get something like  600K of C-memory, give or take 5K) or if I want to see if Windows will handle it, I'll take off all the REM statements, except the CD-rom ones. (They usually hog up 30k or so) and give that a try (I think I would get about 585K ,going this way).

I do have a game that only work in Native Dos mode, no matter how much C-memory I have open.  X-com Apocalypse is that game (at least the one I can remember). It goes into some kind of Protected Dos mode.  But it's an easy game to get going, once you know how. Actually, it's easier than most.

You see, my main goal, on my system, when playing a Dos game through Windows or in Native mode, is in getting that SB16 Emulator into that upper memory. As far as the extra resources of EMM386 and Himem, these games were designed for 286 to 486 systems....your not going to notice the extra resources of those two devices. Besides, when I'm done with Dos, I just type REM in front of everything. I'm sure there is a way to make a .bat file that will edit that for you....but I'm not into programming, so I don't know how.

Simplified: it faster getting into Native Dos mode, when you edit the main files instead of Dosstart.bat.


As far as the  Aluminum Case thing.... where are you getting the idea that having Aluminum is going to make your computer run colder. Your arguing that it's cooler, but I just don't see the logic in that. Yes,  most CPU Heatsinks are made of Aluminum, and Aluminum is a fair conductor (gold is the best, copper is the second best), but just because the Case is made of Aluminum, doesn't mean that it's going to keep your components cool. It just means that the case is going to be more acceptable to temperature changes. It's not going to act, as a big giant heat sink.

Which in reality, means nothing, since it's going to, most likely, be in a constant, temperature (of your room). What you need to be more concerned about is the Powersupply, Airflow, and Room.

Find out what kind of Powersupply it has, and then go to AMD's website and see if it's on the approved list. If it is, you should be Okay. Really, you just need to make sure that the Namebrand is there....don't worry too much about the acutual model number. The AMD site, for the most part is showing you the over achievers on their  list and/or the ones they tested. The 'Generics' are the worst of the lot and the ones your really trying to avoid .

I can't tell what kind of PS comes with the case you want....I guess you could always buy a PowerSupply seperatly, if the one in the case turns out to run out of power, or causes the system to lock up frequently. A bad Powersupply can cause all sorts of nightmares.

http://www2.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_1039^1053,00.html

Best to check all your Main components with AMD...Heatsink, Powersupply, Motherboard, memory (the motherboard is fine, though).

Besides, Aluminum usually rattles...I just hate, when stuff rattles.

Why is it that the movies I rent fit on one DVD? The second DVD is almost always only filled with Special Features.....or is a TV formated edition, of the movie.
[edited] 65 2001-11-30 05:33
 
Wouldn't making your case a heat sink make all your components hotter, since the case would be conducting heat?

Sephiroth 3D

"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within

Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]
 
ThreeSixty, ID: it is possible to free more mem in dos when you load things in high mem. I once had 620k free (i think). And you can't exit into dos from windows, because some drivers has to be in config.sys, and that one wont be loaded in 'exit to dos'.

There is a way to configure it into menu in autoexec.bat, but now i forgot how to create those menus. If somebody would like to know, i can dig my documents.

And key to get into plain dos without nothing is shift+F5

btw, welcome ID :smile:
 
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