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ff7maniac
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if there are new things why jusete does not make them available? he had said that he would post the finish scenes here too and not just on discord.
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Bonez
Guest
Let's not start that... That has been explained and discussed to death... Yourself included in those.
-Jusete posts the finished fields here. Admittedly not always as quickly as other options.
-Jusete posts the finished fields as well as progress updates/conversation on the discord more regularly.
-The fields are uploaded to the 7H catalog.
-The fields are available via torrent.
Again, you have the freedom to choose any of the 4 options, but if you insist on option 1, be prepared to not receive the updates in as timely as a manner as the others.
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ff7maniac
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I know, I didn't want to start the discussion again ^^ if the scenes are not considered finished, like 100% or it's a version 1 etc there is no problem. it's just that if the scenes are finished, he himself said he would post them here too. I didn't want to bring back the old discussions at all, sorry ^^. for people don't like discord or play a non-english version like French and can't use 7th heaven, there is this site which is updated more frequently than qhimm if I'm not mistaken.
https://finalfantasy.german-syslinux-blog.de/FF7/
https://finalfantasy.german-syslinux-blog.de/FF7/
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Bonez
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That's SoulEvan that runs that site. The other one that's upset Jusete doesn't post as much here and refuses to use Discord. But I guess he must have started lol cause he got them before I posted them here but after Jusete posted them to the Discord.
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ff7maniac
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he may not like discord but he must have told himself that he was going to manage his site in such a way as to make the scenes available more quickly than on qhimm. i'm not saying it's going to take a year for jusete to post the new scenes here but, I find it's handy to have an alternative for people who don't like discord or they find they already have enough of account on the net like that, which is the case for me with these two examples I have enough accounts like that and I don't like discord 
i want to say a big thank you to jusete for these scenes he does a magnificent job with these fields^^ 
i want to say a big thank you to jusete for these scenes he does a magnificent job with these fields^^
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Bonez
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You have to make accounts to do pretty much anything on the internet besides using google to do a simple search or downloading torrents from a public tracker. It's kind of like saying "I own this car and need to get to the grocery store 10 miles away, but I refuse to get a driver's license because I already have too many pieces of plastic with my name on them, so I'll just walk instead."... There's a fine line between principals and stubbornness but, I salute you and the hill you've chosen to die on, sir. o7he may not like discord but he must have told himself that he was going to manage his site in such a way as to make the scenes available more quickly than on qhimm. i'm not saying it's going to take a year for jusete to post the new scenes here but, I find it's handy to have an alternative for people who don't like discord or they find they already have enough of account on the net like that, which is the case for me with these two examples I have enough accounts like that and I don't like discord
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ff7maniac
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are you serious with this sentence? " There's a fine line between principals and stubbornness but, I salute you and the hill you've chosen to die on, sir. o7" because I have always been respectful with my messages and yes we can become sick of having too many accounts especially if we don't want to have one or another that we will use once in 2 years for example and if it was sarcastic i apologize, my first language is not english.
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Quid?
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Euuuh, not at all. The only accounts I have are where I might have something to say, informations and downloads I ever wanted so far were and still are available without subscription. Maybe we just don't use the same internet, or for the same purposes, but anyway your message was low and unwhorthy of a moderator, so I wanted to say something even if it's probably pointless. Well, you never know, but speaking only for me, how could I know if Discord is something I could like since I can't even read what's happening on it without making a account, and yes, on principal, this bother me.
There is a fine line between many things, and comment like your last one are just blurring it even more, they don't help to see it or speak to the root of a problem. That's all I can say, not speaking about the work of Jusete or how he choose to share it but your last comment.
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ff7maniac
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what's your problem with people who don't like discord ?... It's not a crime or supernatural to dislike discord. there are thousands of people in the world who do not use it, just as there are thousands of people who prefer facebook to twitter or tiktok to instagram, just as there are thousands of people who prefer to call rather than text or text instead of calling or who prefers nexus to qhimm or like there are thousands of people who prefer to buy a physical game and own it instead of paying a streaming subscription and it's the company that decides what you can play each month or who prefers this tv or internet company over another etc etc your message was contemptuous, denigrating, it was just a discussion. I was never disrespectful in my messages. from now on I think the only thing I'm going to ask is if there's any news and say thank you... and that's if they answer me because from now on. I feel like they will do everything to not give me access to the new fields... and thank you Quid? to have a little understood my point of view
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Bonez
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You're probably right. That last sentence was a little far. Sometimes I forget I'm wearing a moderator hat. I apologize for that.
Having said that, I did say "don't start this discussion again", but you basically said "ok I won't talk about how I wish jusete would post here more because I don't like discord and have too many accounts. Anyway, I wish jusete would post here more because I don't like discord and have too many accounts." And the tongue emoji did kind of make that seem on purpose:
I don't have a problem with people that hate discord, I don't actually care one way or the other. I just don't understand the reasoning behind it. Because it's a chat app. What's to like or dislike? It's just a tool. Idk. And the given reason (having too many accounts) is perplexing to me as well. But as I was trying to say initially, oh well. It doesn't matter and I don't need to understand it.
Now, let me put the moderator hat back on... I'ma move this conversation out of jusete's thread as it no longer pertains to his fields. However, jusete's position on this subject has been explained many times. Ff7maniac's view of disliking discord and having too many accounts has been stated many times. Rehashing them isn't going to push jusete one way or the other. You can continue discussing having too many accounts or disliking discord here, but please keep the "why won't jusete post here?" out of his thread.
The way I said it probably seemed rude, but in all seriousness what I was trying to say was: "I don't understand it, but more power to you."
Having said that, I did say "don't start this discussion again", but you basically said "ok I won't talk about how I wish jusete would post here more because I don't like discord and have too many accounts. Anyway, I wish jusete would post here more because I don't like discord and have too many accounts." And the tongue emoji did kind of make that seem on purpose:
Bonez the moderator warned you, then bonez the person got a little annoyed and responded. but I do apologize.I know, I didn't want to start the discussion again ^^ if the scenes are not considered finished, like 100% or it's a version 1 etc there is no problem. it's just that if the scenes are finished, he himself said he would post them here too. I didn't want to bring back the old discussions at all, sorry ^^. for people don't like discord or play a non-english version like French and can't use 7th heaven, there is this site which is updated more frequently than qhimm if I'm not mistaken.
https://finalfantasy.german-syslinux-blog.de/FF7/
he may not like discord but he must have told himself that he was going to manage his site in such a way as to make the scenes available more quickly than on qhimm. i'm not saying it's going to take a year for jusete to post the new scenes here but, I find it's handy to have an alternative for people who don't like discord or they find they already have enough of account on the net like that, which is the case for me with these two examples I have enough accounts like that and I don't like discord
I don't have a problem with people that hate discord, I don't actually care one way or the other. I just don't understand the reasoning behind it. Because it's a chat app. What's to like or dislike? It's just a tool. Idk. And the given reason (having too many accounts) is perplexing to me as well. But as I was trying to say initially, oh well. It doesn't matter and I don't need to understand it.
I guess you're right and we don't use the same internet. Just since I woke up, I used my Philips hue account to turn the lights on, I used my YouTube account to watch some videos, used my plex account To watch a movie, my Crunchyroll account to watch chainsaw man, played riichi city mahjong which required a steam account and a riichi city account, then played elite dangerous which requires a steam account and an fdev account, all of which while using my VPN which uses an account. I checked my bank account which used my account, paid my spectrum cable bill through my account, downloaded a poker manager app which required a Google play store account, got an email for a GitHub PR which requires an email account to receive and a GitHub account to commit. I used my Spotify account on my drive to the poker game I'm at. As I sit and play cards, I'm playing chess using a chess.com account, and of course I've checked discord and now qhimm... So 17 accounts just today so far and the day isn't over. My password manager (which is an account in and of itself) has about 250 accounts in it. So if you go the whole day without using even half as many accounts, then yeah I guess we use the internet differently and yeah it's foreign to me. From my point of view, it seems weird to limit myself to what I can do on the internet just because I have to enter an email address and a password. Seems like a small price to pay. The smallest, in fact. Or how you can dislike something if you refuse to make an account to even try it. Especially if the subject matter is of interest and contains information and downloads you(collective) desire. Which meets your qualifications for making accounts... That's all. But oh well...
Now, let me put the moderator hat back on... I'ma move this conversation out of jusete's thread as it no longer pertains to his fields. However, jusete's position on this subject has been explained many times. Ff7maniac's view of disliking discord and having too many accounts has been stated many times. Rehashing them isn't going to push jusete one way or the other. You can continue discussing having too many accounts or disliking discord here, but please keep the "why won't jusete post here?" out of his thread.
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ff7maniac
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you see bonez, me if I had as much accounts as you I would be more or give the head. we're just very different in the way we use our computers and the internet, and for the emoji etc it's really just my way of speaking there was no innuendo or anything and if you misinterpret it i'm sorry and i also want to apologize for everything else. you and jusete are really did an exceptional job with these fields.
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Tsuna
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The problem we have here is that the same point is being used as an offence and a defense at the same time which makes no sense.
You say you don't want to be forced to do something you don't want to do. This is your offense.
The solution you offer is to force Jusete to do something he isn't doing. This is your defense.
Do you see the issue here?
You cannot have both of these things.
You are attempting to force Jusete to do something for you and complain when he doesn't.
Yet when you are asked to do something you don't want to do (Get Discord or just wait) you also complain.
They are the exact same thing. You cannot have it both ways.
When you strip away all the extra discussion from the point of this thread, and the one we already had a while ago about the same thing. What you are looking to do is to force another human being to do something that you want them to do to make life slightly easier.
Jusete already told you himself why it takes him longer to post here. You can't just say no and force him to change.
That isn't how this works. He is the creator of the thing you want. Therefor, he's already doing something for you.
So match the score and do something for him by. By accepting his answer of why it takes longer and patient or get Discord and have it now. You get what you want both ways. You cannot lose in the situation. You get the mod regardless of which option you pick.
The possible outcomes are:
1: You are forced to change
2: Justete is forced to change
3: Nobody changes
As someone defending how much you refuse to change, meaning you understand the feeling of not wanting to be forced.
Which of these options is the best? By your own logic of refusal to change then numbers 1 and 2 are identical.
If you refuse to change and argue against it, then forcing Jusete to change is the exact same thing.
But the difference here is this, look at the results of all 3 of the options in front of you.
1: You are forced to change
- You get the mod early at the downside of changing.
2: Force Justete to change
- You get the mod early but you forced someone else to change.
3: Nobody changes
- You still get the mod but nobody is forced to change.
There's a very clear indication that you are the winner here. In all 3 options, you get the mod.
So why push even further and keep trying to force Jusete to do what you want him to do?
You are not in a position to argue his actions or force him to change to best suit yourself.
You are a person, he is a person, you both do whatever you like, nobody can force you or him into something.
You are not higher than him, you are not more important than him, you cannot force your will on him, you are equals.
Respect him, be nice and enjoy his work without the attacking, please and thank you.
You say you don't want to be forced to do something you don't want to do. This is your offense.
The solution you offer is to force Jusete to do something he isn't doing. This is your defense.
Do you see the issue here?
You cannot have both of these things.
You are attempting to force Jusete to do something for you and complain when he doesn't.
Yet when you are asked to do something you don't want to do (Get Discord or just wait) you also complain.
They are the exact same thing. You cannot have it both ways.
When you strip away all the extra discussion from the point of this thread, and the one we already had a while ago about the same thing. What you are looking to do is to force another human being to do something that you want them to do to make life slightly easier.
Jusete already told you himself why it takes him longer to post here. You can't just say no and force him to change.
That isn't how this works. He is the creator of the thing you want. Therefor, he's already doing something for you.
So match the score and do something for him by. By accepting his answer of why it takes longer and patient or get Discord and have it now. You get what you want both ways. You cannot lose in the situation. You get the mod regardless of which option you pick.
The possible outcomes are:
1: You are forced to change
2: Justete is forced to change
3: Nobody changes
As someone defending how much you refuse to change, meaning you understand the feeling of not wanting to be forced.
Which of these options is the best? By your own logic of refusal to change then numbers 1 and 2 are identical.
If you refuse to change and argue against it, then forcing Jusete to change is the exact same thing.
But the difference here is this, look at the results of all 3 of the options in front of you.
1: You are forced to change
- You get the mod early at the downside of changing.
2: Force Justete to change
- You get the mod early but you forced someone else to change.
3: Nobody changes
- You still get the mod but nobody is forced to change.
There's a very clear indication that you are the winner here. In all 3 options, you get the mod.
So why push even further and keep trying to force Jusete to do what you want him to do?
You are not in a position to argue his actions or force him to change to best suit yourself.
You are a person, he is a person, you both do whatever you like, nobody can force you or him into something.
You are not higher than him, you are not more important than him, you cannot force your will on him, you are equals.
Respect him, be nice and enjoy his work without the attacking, please and thank you.
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Quid?
Guest
Yep, that is a hell of a lot of accounts and internet use, we have different ways of using and considering this tool, but naturally this isn't about who has the "right way", just that nobody should be forced in, or out of a way.
Here I checked internet this morning, went on qhimm last, now it's the evening and I had no need or reason to use internet between the two today. As I write this message I am doing other stuffs at the same time, going from checking scripts of my modding hobby to making myself something to eat.
Sure I have a bank account and a few other necessities of the same kind in modern society, I didn't mean those things even if I woudn't mind having alternatives to them as well sometimes, but it isn't the issue now.
I have no problem with people using applications to communicate on whatever they want, and this really used to be no problem at all since those applications weren't "murdering" forums, until discord came along apparently.
You can check a forum and see if you like it, or if you have something to write before registering, it remain a public source of infos. That you can't even do that with discord when it's apparently the thing that 'replace' forums nowaday, is a bother to me even if I reconize that you are right and that a email + a password isn't a big price to pay, if that's really all.
Maybe someday I will give in, out of necessities just like with bank accounts, but right now it isn't one. I just have to say that I agree with ff7maniac on the general principle that posting links on a forum isn't a time sinker, and I know since I mod too, the time sink is making the mod. I don't say this out of a selfish want in this case, I don't personally care for pure graphical modding, but to quote you, power to those that do, and naturally even more power to those who like making them.
So it's nothing personal or nefarious toward anybody but I sincerely keep wondering how coming to a forum if only the time to at least dumb\copy paste what you have already released elsewhere, useful infos, tools or whatever else would be a bigger time sink.
PS: This message wasn't written toward anyone or anything in particular, more in context of the discord issue and how it somehow manage to force itself as the "replacement" of public forums when it doesn't even offer the most basic function, public infos search. I won't rehash it nor am I forcing anything or anyone toward a change or a other goal they don't want.
Modding isn't a garanteed public service and modders do what they want, including how they want to share, and if they want to share their work after all.
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ff7maniac
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Tsuna, I absolutely didn't want to change the person of jusete. and I've already tried discord in the past, I didn't like it and I was tired of having too many accounts on the right and on the left. I have an account here since I think I was a teenager the difference is that here even if a person has no account or decides to delete his account he still has access to the program and download link etc discord without an account we can do nothing. in the time when I was younger, lots of stuff was created here on qhimm for ff7 ff8 most of the mods we heard about on the net in the past came from here everyone left, discord patreon nexus etc. What makes me sad is that many seem to have forgotten their roots, the place where they started and they give their time almost just to the new place. I had asked the base as a question why he had not posted here also since jusete himself had said that he would post the new finis fields here too, if it is version 1 or if he has to rework it I don't mind of waiting at all. however, if she is 100% finish I find it disappointing that people who prefer the forum have to wait, I give a figure just like that as an example 6 months between each scene, which would mean that over time the people of the forum could have a less good quality service than on discord because we would leave them aside and which could have fields which are lost on the right and on the left but it will disturb no one because precisely it is not discord, discord is god... i understood the innuendo of Tsuna's message everything is my fault and just my fault... as I said from now on I'm just going to ask if there's anything news if I still have the permission of course and say thank you.
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GeoffreyMc Jefferson
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I've been a reader of this forum for many years and I have to agree with the OP.
I just don't get this strange obsession people have with Discord, which has become popular especially with gaming communities for some reason. Discord is a chatroom provider and as such, it just isn't a replacement for forums, and never will be. It's almost like people who don't understand how discussions on the internet work have infiltrated the internet and took it hostage.
Discord is good for one thing only and that is real-time conversations. It's not good for sharing media, it's not a good place for lengthy in-depth discussions and it's certainly not a good way to preserve conversations in a digestable format that's easy to follow for outsiders. In fact due to it's always scrolling nature, it's DESIGNED to make conversations disposable and hard to follow for outsiders coming in.
Forums in comparison are clearly structured, easy to navigate, searchable, indexable, even many years later. Every thread has an opening post (that can be edited if needed) and even years later you can tell who replied to what and easily follow the the entire conversation. They're objectively the better option for detailed discussions, and they're MOST definitely the better option for modders and people who want to track the progress of mods, some of which can take years to get finished.
Then there's the fact that due to everyone making their own bloody Discord servers, it's causing a fragmentation of groups of people with the same interests into many separate, isolated Discord subcommunities, which could easily be a single forum with separate subforums, that again is more clearly structured, easier to navigate, searchable, indexable and doesn't depend on a single service provider.
The scary part is that thanks to so many communities depending on Discord now, as fragmented as they are, we're at great risk of losing a huge amount of information either to time, or other reasons if something happens to Discord as a platform. For that reason alone, it's VITAL that we keep independent forums that run on their own servers like this one alive, and don't start to depend on platforms like Discord that are outside of our control.
I just don't get this strange obsession people have with Discord, which has become popular especially with gaming communities for some reason. Discord is a chatroom provider and as such, it just isn't a replacement for forums, and never will be. It's almost like people who don't understand how discussions on the internet work have infiltrated the internet and took it hostage.
Discord is good for one thing only and that is real-time conversations. It's not good for sharing media, it's not a good place for lengthy in-depth discussions and it's certainly not a good way to preserve conversations in a digestable format that's easy to follow for outsiders. In fact due to it's always scrolling nature, it's DESIGNED to make conversations disposable and hard to follow for outsiders coming in.
Forums in comparison are clearly structured, easy to navigate, searchable, indexable, even many years later. Every thread has an opening post (that can be edited if needed) and even years later you can tell who replied to what and easily follow the the entire conversation. They're objectively the better option for detailed discussions, and they're MOST definitely the better option for modders and people who want to track the progress of mods, some of which can take years to get finished.
Then there's the fact that due to everyone making their own bloody Discord servers, it's causing a fragmentation of groups of people with the same interests into many separate, isolated Discord subcommunities, which could easily be a single forum with separate subforums, that again is more clearly structured, easier to navigate, searchable, indexable and doesn't depend on a single service provider.
The scary part is that thanks to so many communities depending on Discord now, as fragmented as they are, we're at great risk of losing a huge amount of information either to time, or other reasons if something happens to Discord as a platform. For that reason alone, it's VITAL that we keep independent forums that run on their own servers like this one alive, and don't start to depend on platforms like Discord that are outside of our control.
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Bonez
Guest
The Qhimm forums aren't going anywhere for a lot of the reasons you listed. No one ever said they were. It's just another tool to communicate quickly and have those real-time conversations you're talking about. It's not replacing the forums. The information still ends up here, just not as quickly sometimes.
See:
https://www.ff7catalog.com/threads/14618/
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ff7maniac
Guest
I would have a comment to write but as I said, I no longer dare. I have the impression that it is always badly interpreted or they take me for an alien XD
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Quid?
Guest
If this is a accurate description of how discord work, then it is indeed even worse than I thought and it isn't even half deserving to be the forums doom that it yet managed to become. But here we are and too few people seem to care, so, I hesitated but here I am again to say that I agree.
And still, yes it is replacing the forums since it is in fact killing them. Your own thread 'where did everyone go' read like: 'don't feel bad about deserting the forum and never even bother to check it again, nobody even care anymore and discord is a better replacement'. When it appear it isn't half of a replacement.
Sorry, nothing personal, I don't know you but your messages on the subject tend to read like this, there is no problem happening and nobody should try to point that there is one. I would be surprised if any result come out of trying to discuss it, but well, to be honest I think I would also be surprised if anything of my interest is showed or discussed on discord at this point, since nothing of the sort seem to come out of it, so despite the sadness of seeing forums like this one abandonned, I don't feel like I am missing anything otherwise. And if I am wrong but that nobody can be bothered to share what they already shared on their favorite discord server, what can anyone say, other than the consequences are easily predictable.
Don't know if I worded my thoughts that well, but anyway.
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Tsuna
Guest
In the end, it isn't us keeping the 3000+ qhimm forum members from not posting anymore.
They're all in Discord, and by their own choice. We didn't force them there.
If you want the forums back alive and booming, it's them you have to convince, not us.
We aren't withholding posts, people themselves have chose not to post here and to use Discord instead.
That's just the way it is. We have no control over it.
If myself and Bonez decided fuck it, screw Discord, forums are king! And posted here every day with you.
Nothing would change. The numbers don't lie. People just prefer Discord. I'm sorry
They're all in Discord, and by their own choice. We didn't force them there.
If you want the forums back alive and booming, it's them you have to convince, not us.
We aren't withholding posts, people themselves have chose not to post here and to use Discord instead.
That's just the way it is. We have no control over it.
If myself and Bonez decided fuck it, screw Discord, forums are king! And posted here every day with you.
Nothing would change. The numbers don't lie. People just prefer Discord. I'm sorry
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ff7maniac
Guest
people prefer discord because it's like a windows live mesenger, msn etc. it works well with people who often talk to each other for x reasons who are on discord for several things at the same time several game, mods, personal work etc etc. i can understand that for these reasons the creators etc find it more practical because it is instantaneous then the work, teams, the opinions etc the return is faster but for the person who is just interested in a particular game or mod and would post a question every 8 months or who simply wants to have access to something but without necessarily wanting to discuss does not see the point of having a discord. it is for this reason that the forum, like probably others, is also practical and should always exist because everyone has access to the content and the message. whether we have an account or not.
I'm not against discord for some it must be a practical tool but I don't like it and for my person I don't see the use of it because I'm mainly a console gamer, with my computer I only play ff7 ff8 ff9 and in my life I'm pretty old school I like physical things, I don't have anything internet to connect to my bank account etc, i pay all my things with cash etc but I can understand that a person is comfortable with the digital and which plays 100% pc can have accounts a little everywhere rather than having 2 3 thing which interests it. I hope I expressed myself well and that it will not be misinterpreted.
I'm not against discord for some it must be a practical tool but I don't like it and for my person I don't see the use of it because I'm mainly a console gamer, with my computer I only play ff7 ff8 ff9 and in my life I'm pretty old school I like physical things, I don't have anything internet to connect to my bank account etc, i pay all my things with cash etc but I can understand that a person is comfortable with the digital and which plays 100% pc can have accounts a little everywhere rather than having 2 3 thing which interests it. I hope I expressed myself well and that it will not be misinterpreted.
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