[PSX/PC] FF9.2.2 - Balance fixes (+German version)

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Ah! For testing the different formulas' damage gaps, feel free to copy the damage calculation tables already made on the sheet "Stats, gear (just a scratchpad)." I'll make what the columns are doing clearer. If you or anybody would like to test such things, no reason to have to remake another calculator based on the same game mechanics.

Please feel free to let me know any questions and findings about this sort of thing!
 
BTW do let me know if you disagree with something, i'm interested in hearing your thoughts
 
That armor scheme makes sense to me. I haven't looked at the armors balances at all (or don't remember that I did, whereas I remember the weapons).

I figured out what those damage formulas were again. They weren't what I assumed they were from the abbreviations I had had.

Disagree: sure. As mentioned above, for instance I would not agree to make the mod incompatible with the E2PG or to balance the ultimate weapon attack values pre-formula. I am glad  that would test the formulas if you were balancing to contribute to this mod, since I would have imagined your showing me how you got the numbers for "balance," after all lol.

It's fun to talk about the mod after all this time.
 
Other stuff i'm noticing as I play.

There's some imbalance in early game weapons. I think Steiners are too weak and Zidane's too good. Notable Vivi gaining access to the Oak Staff before Burmecia (atk 23) while steiner doesn't even have the mythril sword (20). Armors... minor stuff like Headgear being worse than Steepled Hat despite costing more (perfectly fixed with -1 mdef to SH and +1 mdef to Headger).

Robes have too much def, even more than heavy armor options acquired around the same time. Check Cotton robe vs linen cuirass... that's not acceptable. Also the cotton robe trick (infinite money) is worth considering.
 
Hmm, interesting. It does look like the Headgear is weird among hats for having even as much as +2 Def. Most hats just continue the +MDef progression and drop Def altogether. Headgear would completely outclass Feathered Hat if you gave it +1 MDef. You could take SH from 9 to 8, which would leave it with more than Feathered, less than Magus, and equal total +defs to Headgear.

If cost is the concern, though, you'd need to balance +1 Str (SH) against Halves Water (HG), too, ya? Because other stats go up point by point but elements are the same, you'd probably want to use a multiplier for the elements, like costs 20% more (just a random figure), rather than an additive cost bonus.
 
I want it to outclass Feathered hat: it's acquired later (dali vs lindblum) and costs more. True progression for those follows vanilla prices, with +1 total defs for each one from leather hat to Magus Hat.

Robes are a much more pressing issue BTW. If you're interested when i'm done with it i can upload the CSV from hades workshop, they make comparisons easy.

EDIT: another easy to spot issue: dumb jump in def for the last 3 heavy armors and last 2 hats
 
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Makes sense. Glad to take a look when you finish. I wonder how they do these balances.
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ev0qwBlKBa5zjexQM3aSwjOxeC5023pz/view?usp=sharing

You'll find both csv exported from my mod and those from the vanilla game, all you have to do is a diff of the folders, or open files up in excel

In 99% of cases, only numbers i've touched are atk, price, def, mdef, eva and m.eva. No stat bonuses other the ones you changed (ditto for elemental resistances/boots) and the steepled's hat (changed from +str to +mag), no changes to addons (and i don't plan to). I also made Circlet mage-only, golden skullcap male only and made Silk Robe and Mage's robe craftable earlier, from Treno and BM village respectively (no need to delay them so much since they are easily acquired through other means anyway). Vanilla prices are more often than not the guiding hand in balancing those stat totals since they faithfully tell when a certain item is first acquired.

PS: Still ongoing as i haven't done armlet and gauntlets yet but it's gonna be very straightforward. a bit more skewed towards m.eva the former, and a bit more towards physical eva. the latter. Also current numbers are likely to change after hearing your opinion but this is more than enough to show you my design idea.

EDIT: RAR Updated with arm protections changes

Another thing worth considering: items required for crafting that become permanently missable as you progress through the game. Chain Mail is an example, required for Power Belt
 
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Oh, good to know, I took the chance to update the rar again. I'm still making minor tweaks to numbers as I go, but the big change from yesterday is how i decided to address the flute/rod vs racket issue.

Instead of your mag+2 approach i decided to boost staves, rods and flutes to have higher atk than rackets (55-50 range) and use the magic formula (just like spd and spirit weapons but uses magic instead). Given that another issue of the imbalance is the fact that rackets can be wind-boosted, i gave whale's whisker water and angelic flute holy. Since magic is usually MUCH higher than spd for those characters, it should compensate somewhat the fact that they require the front row.

As for shops, i just readded some permanently missable weapons to late game shops, like the Chain Mail i mentioned.
 
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Hey Caledor, thanks for waiting. Though I've had a full week, I am still interested to talk about your mod, and since I did say "Friday" I wanted to check in.

I may be missing something. What is the best way to use the CSV files to make the comparisons easy? Like, I myself google sheets (though not Excel). I could download the two versions and paste them into side-by-side columns then use conditional formatting to highlight the differences? But that's a few more steps than what you must have meant, so figured I'd ask what I'm missing.
 
A csv is basically a spreadsheet saved in txt format. Any decent excel-like editor is supposed to open a csv file with data properly formatted into columns (separated by ";" in this specific case)
 
I was typing this before your last reply, which I now see:

Ok, so you did just mean for them to be in columns. Google Sheets apparently doesn't put the csv data into columns for semicolons. I opened in Notepad++, replaced the ; with , in the data, and reuploaded it to fix. However, DiffChecker.com (or some such) seems like an easier way for me to compare the vanilla and Caledor csv changes, so that's what I'll try next.

The Stats CSV is a bit confusing. There's only one difference:

Van: Stat Set 80,80,0,0,0,1,1,0,0,0,0
Cal.: Stat Set 80,80,0,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,0

So that would appear to be Stat Set 80. In HW, Steepled Hat is Stat Set 29. Stat Set 80 in HW is Rubber Suit. Go figure. Is this the Steepled Hat? Wouldn't that stat set have only a single 1 involved?

In any case, changing the Steepled Hat to +1 Mag shouldn't harm any stat setups, so all good.


Ok, what's your thinking on the Circlet/Golden Skullcap?
 
Dunno why stat set 80 is different, i made a point of not changing anything there. At most i'd swap stat set itself on the equipment like the steepled hat (which is a mage's hat so got changed to +1 mag for flavor).

Golden Skullcap vs Circlet male/female only is again mostly for flavor since they're both endgame and their abilities aren't unique at all.

BTW if you have time to talk about it send me your discord (if you have it) in PM, it'd be much easier to talk about it that way

EDIT: looks like the stats.csv is a leftover that has already been reverted in the actual game files cause i don't see any difference in stat set 80 in both my mod and vanilla from hex workshop.

EDIT2: I figured it out... Stat sets are off by one. So 80 is actually 81 (Brave Suit) and that change is yours: From boosts fire to immune to fire.
 
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Stats, gotcha.

Skullcap and Circlet sound like a fine place for flavor. The only trade-off apparent to me is Garnet would boost Leviathan in slightly less defensible gear: a very minor concern.

Re-adding missable synth materials sounds good.

I ran some numbers on the scratchpad on the mod's main spreadsheet to see what sort of damage the (Str+Mag)/2 formula weapons might do at max stats. These are averages of min and max damage.

Tiger Racket: 1837
Angel Flute: 3220
Whale Whisker: 3667
Whale Whisker (old): 1976
Mace of Zeus: 3504
Sargantas: 3300 (selected because as comparable w the above)
Obelisk: 3827  (selected because as comparable w the above)
Masamune: 5025
Ultima Weapon: 6000
Ultima Weapon (old): 6750
E2: 6300
E2 (old): 7350

Basically, if considering max stats, you can pretend that Garnet and Vivi wielding a Str+Mag weapon are wielding a Str weapon w the same power and a Str of 72. Eiko, 71. Whereas if they are wielding a racket/Str+Spd weapon, they do so like they are wielding Str weapons of the same power with Str of G: 43, E: 42.

Since row doesn't matter for striking your own party members, Healer on mages is much improved.


Edit: Would you say the main value of the rebalanced attack values is so that the attack values themselves make more sense internally?


Did you go ahead and change daggers to the (Str+Spd)/2 formula like you mentioned?

I can be available to discord chat some time soon. I don't use Discord much, so I'll figure it out after work today and plan to reply more about it to your next replies.
 
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Would you say the main value of the rebalanced attack values is so that the attack values themselves make more sense internally?
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Weapons, yeah. No other option exists when you rebalance them so it's all about having consistent and comparable progression with other character. Maintaining some sort of power ranking. For example the huge jump between Esto Gaza (after) and Daguerreo doesn't make much sense since they're basically accessible at the same time. That's why Flame Saber and co were boosted that much.

Armors are another thing. Robes were outright invalidating a huge chunk of the light armor options.

BTW i haven't considered max stats number when balancing. I do know how high mag+str gets on mages but i have ignored it. Balacing with such an extreme case in mind would yeld bad results of all the "average" playthroughs. Also strange that Zeus can deal damage as high as Rods and Flutes, since the latter are elemental now.

I will probably have a better idea for these numbers when i reach the endgame with my "average" playthrough so i can see the actual stats.

Daggers are still str only.
 
The Dagguereo jump at least feels exciting in the first several playsthrough when you feel like you unlocked something secret. If by now you go there as a matter of course, same as you'd go to Esto Gaza, then yea, might be more satisfying to balance it for you.

I didn't multiply in an elemental bonus for any of those above.

Whale Whisker (1.5x): 5501
Tiger Racket (1.5x): 2738

Yea, one of the advantages of making a mod for a perfect game run is you only have to consider the base stats and the max stats in balancing :) That average playthrough, actual stats thing is a lot harder ;)
 
Daguerreo is still a big boost in equipment. I just made Esto Gaza a bit closer to it and distanced more those earlier.

For example, using steiner's weapons, vanilla is Disc2 35, Blue Narciss 38, Oeilvert 42, Esto Gaza (after Desert Palace) 46, Daguerreo 57. Now it's 35-40-44-51-57. Smoother.
 
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