P
philman
Guest
just got that looped some time:
Anyone with more knowledge on VP knows exactly where that come from?
Anyone with more knowledge on VP knows exactly where that come from?
- Status
D
DLPB_
Guest
@JeMaCheHi
So America and other people "intervening" is the reason pretty much every single Islamic country has massive restrictions on freedom and is at war with itself or its neighbours? I'm sorry, but you're just being an apologist. Islam has been waging war since its founder did around 600 AD. It's a key component of the Koran - and I can find you literally hundreds of quotes where this is the case.
The Hadith is littered with instructions to Muslims on how to "treat" non-Muslims and Jews especially.
When I look around the world, all the countries that have evolved past medieval barbarity are nations that embraced Christianity (a much more tolerant religion than Islam, albeit still a load of nonsense), or otherwise embraced a benign philosophy like Buddhism; and the ones who have not are nearly always Islamic. That isn't a coincidence. Blaming Israel, or America, or that boy down the street is simply not going to cut it. Japan, for example, doesn't have gun toting nutcases running down the street killing 100s of people BECAUSE THEY DON'T LET THESE PEOPLE IN. Unlike the liberal West, they're not as dumb as a bunch of rocks.
Moreover, people are taking less and less notice of appeasers and voting for parties that will do something about their weak Leftist countries.
Let me sum it up for you:
Muhammad: Slept with a 9 year old child called Aisha (married her at six)
Jesus: Celibate
Muhammad: Conquered and plundered. Personally murdered people.
Jesus: Rode on a donkey and proclaimed peace. Never killed anyone.
Muhammad: Gave direct instructions to his followers not to tolerate Jews, Christians and Unbelievers.
Jesus: Turn the other cheek. Love thy neighbour.
Whilst the libtard media won't tell you it, the fundamental reason why nearly EVERY atrocity today is being carried about by Islam in dozens of Islamic nations is because of that book. It makes Mein Kampf look like a fairytale and I suggest everyone here go and read up on it.
So America and other people "intervening" is the reason pretty much every single Islamic country has massive restrictions on freedom and is at war with itself or its neighbours? I'm sorry, but you're just being an apologist. Islam has been waging war since its founder did around 600 AD. It's a key component of the Koran - and I can find you literally hundreds of quotes where this is the case.
There isn't a comparable passage to this ANYWHERE in the New Testament (or in the Old actually). And by that I mean direct references to not making friends with specific religions. Or in this manner. The Gospels are almost entirely benign. The Koran is not and it's one message from Allah through Muhammad.
The Hadith is littered with instructions to Muslims on how to "treat" non-Muslims and Jews especially.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/009-friends-with-christians-jews.htm
When I look around the world, all the countries that have evolved past medieval barbarity are nations that embraced Christianity (a much more tolerant religion than Islam, albeit still a load of nonsense), or otherwise embraced a benign philosophy like Buddhism; and the ones who have not are nearly always Islamic. That isn't a coincidence. Blaming Israel, or America, or that boy down the street is simply not going to cut it. Japan, for example, doesn't have gun toting nutcases running down the street killing 100s of people BECAUSE THEY DON'T LET THESE PEOPLE IN. Unlike the liberal West, they're not as dumb as a bunch of rocks.
Moreover, people are taking less and less notice of appeasers and voting for parties that will do something about their weak Leftist countries.
Let me sum it up for you:
Muhammad: Slept with a 9 year old child called Aisha (married her at six)
Jesus: Celibate
Muhammad: Conquered and plundered. Personally murdered people.
Jesus: Rode on a donkey and proclaimed peace. Never killed anyone.
Muhammad: Gave direct instructions to his followers not to tolerate Jews, Christians and Unbelievers.
Jesus: Turn the other cheek. Love thy neighbour.
Whilst the libtard media won't tell you it, the fundamental reason why nearly EVERY atrocity today is being carried about by Islam in dozens of Islamic nations is because of that book. It makes Mein Kampf look like a fairytale and I suggest everyone here go and read up on it.
Last edited:
D
DLPB_
Guest
And yeah, for all the ills of having less gun control among citizens, at least the Americans wouldn't be held like lambs to the slaughter in some concert hall. Although, I dread to think what would happen if all the Muslims in Britain had the right to go truck down to a shop and buy a gun. The atrocities wouldn't be as large, but they'd be far more numerous. Especially when you consider some polls show an alarming truth:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html
Last edited:
J
JeMaCheHi
Guest
@DPLB,
Very well, I'm gonna try to respond your arguments, but I cannot hold a debate on an equal footing because my native language is not English, and I'm not that good with the language. Also, I don't intend to offend anyone, so if anyone feel offended I apologize from this very moment.
So, when I say "this is not about religion" I'm not saying that religion has nothing to do with this, obviously it has. But religion has always been a mass control instrument, not a finality but a tool. And it sounds funny to me when you say Christianism is "a much more tolerant religion than Islam", since christian church has commited the largest genocide in the mankind history, from the middle ages to this time. To mix Christianity and tolerant in the same sentence should be a crime, in fact. Anyway the point here is that religion is not the ultimate cause of this.
To understand what I mean when I say that USA is the culprit, we have to go back to the 70s. During the Cold War, US government needed to stop Soviet Union expansion to the south. Yeah, their expansion and influence to Afghanistan. What did US government? They started to fund rebel factions, and coup d'etats to remove the socialist government. Guess you know they was the ones who trained Bin Laden ah? Obviously their ally was and always will be Saudi Arabia. Here you got a couple of pics dude:
Your president Reagan with the fanatics of Saudi Arabia:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_-TICiq_l6M/U-W_HP9Go_I/AAAAAAAABEI/sSfEWPUm1Ks/s1600/s_a17_00reagan.jpg
And here you can see how the journals praised the Anti-Soviet hero that the CIA itself trained:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8zrhkcIgAAhT6n.jpg
Cool ah? Now take a look at this photos, the first is a sight of the socialist kabul, and the second the same city after the allies of USA raided it:
Before: http://www.afghan-network.net/Photography/kabul/kabul-paramount.gif
After: http://www.editoweb.eu/nicolas_maury/photo/art/default/5720418-8529061.jpg?v=1374678221
And what do you think about women's freedom? Here you have another before and after photos:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oG0s1d0rkbY/Tvu8LOsJfuI/AAAAAAAAASk/Qev2-4GRfa4/s400/kabulunivstudents87.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2009/8/1/1249157752758/Women-in-Islamic-dress-we-001.jpg
And to end with Afghanistan, a sample of what those "freedom fighters" did to the democratically chosen president. This photo is a strong image so if you're sensitive don't see it:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kcj3FpLQmV4/UlWCjYXheLI/AAAAAAAADFw/_LySIwRmS-E/s1600/000_APP2001092599027_m.jpg
I have a lot more of pics of women going to university, walking free on the streets... and much more, but I think you can do your own research from that point. I also have lots of press articles praising the terrorists, which was driving out the "barbaric" communists, but they're in spanish so it has no point to post them here. Anyway, where do I want to get with all this photos? Well, you can see how North America started an Islamic revolution, how they give them power, and how the whole europe sat down and watched, not doing anything at all. Why? Obviously, the reason is the one we all know. Oil. Petroleum. The same happened in Libya with Gadafi, the same happened in Iraq with Hussein, and the same is happening now in Syria with Al'Asad. It's all the time the same sh*t. USA is running out of natural resources and they need more. USA sends CIA to fund some rebel faction to break nation stability. USA invades the country to "save" the poor poor little citizens. USA steal all the natural resources they can. Of course, with the support of their european allies and the Saudi Arabia sheikhs.
This is why I say that this has nothing to do with religion, because the fact behind this is not religion but oil control. You obviously have the point when you say that the lower integrants of daesh acts for the sake of their religion, their god, or whatever. BUT, the real fact is that this happened because the energetic resources control, not for letting Islam to grow free. In fact, I have muslim friends here in my city who say this is crazy, this is just a radical interpretation of the Qur'an, but not the majority one. By the way, my city is on red alert, they threatened to attack us after they attack Paris so... we're next.
And you shouldn't do that fast asseverations DLPB, because shows your lack of global vision.
Oh, just a cool link to keep the topic:
Very well, I'm gonna try to respond your arguments, but I cannot hold a debate on an equal footing because my native language is not English, and I'm not that good with the language. Also, I don't intend to offend anyone, so if anyone feel offended I apologize from this very moment.
So, when I say "this is not about religion" I'm not saying that religion has nothing to do with this, obviously it has. But religion has always been a mass control instrument, not a finality but a tool. And it sounds funny to me when you say Christianism is "a much more tolerant religion than Islam", since christian church has commited the largest genocide in the mankind history, from the middle ages to this time. To mix Christianity and tolerant in the same sentence should be a crime, in fact. Anyway the point here is that religion is not the ultimate cause of this.
To understand what I mean when I say that USA is the culprit, we have to go back to the 70s. During the Cold War, US government needed to stop Soviet Union expansion to the south. Yeah, their expansion and influence to Afghanistan. What did US government? They started to fund rebel factions, and coup d'etats to remove the socialist government. Guess you know they was the ones who trained Bin Laden ah? Obviously their ally was and always will be Saudi Arabia. Here you got a couple of pics dude:
Your president Reagan with the fanatics of Saudi Arabia:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_-TICiq_l6M/U-W_HP9Go_I/AAAAAAAABEI/sSfEWPUm1Ks/s1600/s_a17_00reagan.jpg
And here you can see how the journals praised the Anti-Soviet hero that the CIA itself trained:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8zrhkcIgAAhT6n.jpg
Cool ah? Now take a look at this photos, the first is a sight of the socialist kabul, and the second the same city after the allies of USA raided it:
Before: http://www.afghan-network.net/Photography/kabul/kabul-paramount.gif
After: http://www.editoweb.eu/nicolas_maury/photo/art/default/5720418-8529061.jpg?v=1374678221
And what do you think about women's freedom? Here you have another before and after photos:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oG0s1d0rkbY/Tvu8LOsJfuI/AAAAAAAAASk/Qev2-4GRfa4/s400/kabulunivstudents87.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2009/8/1/1249157752758/Women-in-Islamic-dress-we-001.jpg
And to end with Afghanistan, a sample of what those "freedom fighters" did to the democratically chosen president. This photo is a strong image so if you're sensitive don't see it:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kcj3FpLQmV4/UlWCjYXheLI/AAAAAAAADFw/_LySIwRmS-E/s1600/000_APP2001092599027_m.jpg
I have a lot more of pics of women going to university, walking free on the streets... and much more, but I think you can do your own research from that point. I also have lots of press articles praising the terrorists, which was driving out the "barbaric" communists, but they're in spanish so it has no point to post them here. Anyway, where do I want to get with all this photos? Well, you can see how North America started an Islamic revolution, how they give them power, and how the whole europe sat down and watched, not doing anything at all. Why? Obviously, the reason is the one we all know. Oil. Petroleum. The same happened in Libya with Gadafi, the same happened in Iraq with Hussein, and the same is happening now in Syria with Al'Asad. It's all the time the same sh*t. USA is running out of natural resources and they need more. USA sends CIA to fund some rebel faction to break nation stability. USA invades the country to "save" the poor poor little citizens. USA steal all the natural resources they can. Of course, with the support of their european allies and the Saudi Arabia sheikhs.
This is why I say that this has nothing to do with religion, because the fact behind this is not religion but oil control. You obviously have the point when you say that the lower integrants of daesh acts for the sake of their religion, their god, or whatever. BUT, the real fact is that this happened because the energetic resources control, not for letting Islam to grow free. In fact, I have muslim friends here in my city who say this is crazy, this is just a radical interpretation of the Qur'an, but not the majority one. By the way, my city is on red alert, they threatened to attack us after they attack Paris so... we're next.
And you shouldn't do that fast asseverations DLPB, because shows your lack of global vision.
Oh, just a cool link to keep the topic:
D
DLPB_
Guest
The Crusades were a response to Islamic aggression, and anything that Christians did was never in line with the teachings of Jesus. Unlike Muslims, who are all doing exactly what Muhammad did - and there's your difference. If you want to play the numbers game, Islam has been waging war since its inception and STILL IS. As I said before, after 1400 years, Islam is still hostile because its book does not allow for the same reformation that took place with Christianity.
And we aren't even talking about the past, either - that's just another apologist argument. I don't care 2 hoots for what went on 200 - 2000 years ago, I care about TODAY. And only one religion is going around blowing people up in the name of its prophet. Also, if you want to count the dead, you'll find Islam has caused more death than any other religious group- BY FAR.
Your links and arguments are way off, because you are equating what a US president does in a democratic society - voted by people - and debated in chambers, to a bunch of Barbarians whose only motive is hatred, and who get their arguments from an ancient book. And here, again, is the MAIN difference: The US does not charge into countries saying "Jesus is Great" or other religious sabre rattling - Islamic terrorists do. And they target innocent civilians. The US did not cause a problem in Islam, it's BEEN THERE SINCE THE BEGINNING. You make it sound like Middle East was a bastion of peace and tranquility, and those pesky Americans came along and destroyed it. No. It's a hell hole where Christians, homosexuals, women, minorities, and other ideologies (especially athiesm), are subjugated or wiped out.
As far as I can see, all you are doing is trying to excuse mass murderers, and that makes you as bad as them.
America is not perfect, but I have a feeling you'll have a hard time convincing the majority that it's as bad as most Islamic states.
Your argument that this has "nothing to do with religion" is so ridiculous it does not require any rebuttal.
And we aren't even talking about the past, either - that's just another apologist argument. I don't care 2 hoots for what went on 200 - 2000 years ago, I care about TODAY. And only one religion is going around blowing people up in the name of its prophet. Also, if you want to count the dead, you'll find Islam has caused more death than any other religious group- BY FAR.
Your links and arguments are way off, because you are equating what a US president does in a democratic society - voted by people - and debated in chambers, to a bunch of Barbarians whose only motive is hatred, and who get their arguments from an ancient book. And here, again, is the MAIN difference: The US does not charge into countries saying "Jesus is Great" or other religious sabre rattling - Islamic terrorists do. And they target innocent civilians. The US did not cause a problem in Islam, it's BEEN THERE SINCE THE BEGINNING. You make it sound like Middle East was a bastion of peace and tranquility, and those pesky Americans came along and destroyed it. No. It's a hell hole where Christians, homosexuals, women, minorities, and other ideologies (especially athiesm), are subjugated or wiped out.
As far as I can see, all you are doing is trying to excuse mass murderers, and that makes you as bad as them.
America is not perfect, but I have a feeling you'll have a hard time convincing the majority that it's as bad as most Islamic states.
Your argument that this has "nothing to do with religion" is so ridiculous it does not require any rebuttal.
Last edited:
D
DLPB_
Guest
https://www.rt.com/news/322051-poland-rejects-refugee-quota/
Funny isn't it, how it takes a huge atrocity for some people to wake up?
Finally, I highly recommend anything by Robert Spencer in understanding Islam.
Funny isn't it, how it takes a huge atrocity for some people to wake up?
Finally, I highly recommend anything by Robert Spencer in understanding Islam.
Last edited:
S
StickySock
Guest
It's easy to blame the USA for everything nowadays since it's become the "cool" thing to do, but it's not like any of the other countries aren't corrupt anyways. Yes, the USA government is corrupt and does shady things, but point me out a government believed to be trustworthy and I'll point out an ignorant person.
On the other hand, it is completely moronic to blame capitalism for the corruption of governments. Governments will always be corrupt, no matter if they are capitalist, socialist, communist, fascist, or a traditional monarchy. It is only the viewpoint of those easily influenced to join the anti-capitalist bandwagon.
Crony capitalism, sure, because by definition it is the corruption of both the government and the free market by the underhanded combination of the two. Relatively pure capitalism (one where government only interferes when it strictly needs to) is what allowed the USA to become the strongest and wealthiest country in world (not saying it still is, mostly because of the corrupt abomination it is today) faster than any other nation is the history of mankind. Ignoring that would just show blind hate toward something that is not understood.
Not to mention the fact that recent news indicates that at least one of the terrorists was a French citizen. Go ahead and blame America, blame free markets, and wait for the sweet, pure, incorruptible government to come in for the rescue.
(BTW, I'm not directing any of this personally at you JeMaCheHi, and I mean no offense. I am just generalizing because this is how I speak and am too lazy to reword it in a way that it is clearly not directed at anyone in particular.)
Edit: Wow, I was late on that reply lol.
Edit after reading posts: DLPB is pretty spot-on. The only thing I'd like to point to him is that if there were gun stores in the UK and muslims got hold of them, at least you would have yours as well. Mutually assured destruction would have a little better outcome than if the other side manages to get hold of something while you refused to get yours out of obligation to a societal belief. It'd be like if the US decided to give up all their nuclear weapons and waited until eventually North Korea, Russia, or Iran decided they felt like attacking the US with one that *gasp* they managed to get even though it was "outlawed".
Last edited:
J
JeMaCheHi
Guest
No, they charge into countries saying "Money is Great".
I strongly encourage you to investigate more about socialist republics on middle east during the soviet union times. Islamic regime did that, as you said, but how they came to power is the main point. As I told you before, I cannot debate with you in equal footing because of my low english level in comparison with you, so the most I can do is telling you my point of view the best I can and trust you'll take it into account.
No prob dude, I take no offense, and I don't mean it neither. I usually have this kind of debates with friends, but you know, they're way easier when you have them in your native language. I tend to sound really rough in english hahaha.
Anyway I doesn't blame only US, our Spanish (fascist) government (and our fascist president Aznar) followed GW Bush to Iraq like a filthy pug, for example. France and UK are accomplices of US war crimes too. And not to mention Germany... But you cannot deny that US is the head on all this crap.
S
StickySock
Guest
I'm not going to deny that George Bush and the Iraq War was all bullstrawberries, because it was. I'm not an apologist for my government and hold it to the high standards its founders set when the nation was established. The USA has been corrupt in nearly every war since WW2, but I haven't seen any other bastion of innocence in any other nation anyways.
To be honest, you probably should not take my word for any value, because I am one of "those" people that believe, while the USA might not have been the direct culprit (I think they might have been), someone in our government most likely stood to gain from the attacks on 9-11. I don't believe a bunch of terrorists suddenly had an idea to hijack passenger planes and fly them into the trade centers of their own accord, nor do I fully believe the physics (based off my knowledge from admittedly general physics series for Bachelore's Degree) behind the collapse of the towers (especially trade center 7). I don't really want to get into that debate though, but I am far from someone who claims the US government is great.
On the other hand, the Islamic religion is notoriously barbaric and intolerant. It has been hundreds of years since any major attacks have been carried out by any other religion, mostly because those religions had teachings that easily fit within our modern, civilized society. The Islamic religion is definitely a product of the ancient and medieval past, and nothing short of a complete rewriting of the scripture contained within it is going to allow them to ever fully integrate into western society. As DLPB pointed out, you cannot find such intolerant language used by any other modern religions.
Deflecting these facts under the basis of government greed is not valid, since most of the attacks by the extremists have been against innocent civilians. The Muslims are not yelling "Down with corruption! Free our people from the tyranny of the west!". They are saying "Death to Jews!", "Death to Christians!", "Death to America!", and "Death to nonbelievers!" etc. If they only fought wars with our governments I would sympathize with their plight against the "war for oil", but while the western governments supposedly plunder them for oil they make random attacks against innocent people shouting off racial and religious hate-filled language.
Last edited:
D
DLPB_
Guest
I will finish by saying I also agree that Western governments are corrupt and that money has destroyed a lot of things, but if it's a choice between living by Western values and in Western countries, or living under Sharia, it isn't a difficult decision.
Also, the difference between a Western government and an Islamic one is that the laws are decided by the people and governments are voted by the people. In Islam, that festering book decides what you will think, and what you WILL obey. There is no freedom at all.
The irony is not lost on me that in many Islamic countries, all of the posts here would be illegal and would carry a very hefty penalty. Just the other day, a woman was stoned to death. So please, don't preach to me about Evil America. Start complaining about those that deserve it most.
Also, the difference between a Western government and an Islamic one is that the laws are decided by the people and governments are voted by the people. In Islam, that festering book decides what you will think, and what you WILL obey. There is no freedom at all.
The irony is not lost on me that in many Islamic countries, all of the posts here would be illegal and would carry a very hefty penalty. Just the other day, a woman was stoned to death. So please, don't preach to me about Evil America. Start complaining about those that deserve it most.
Last edited:
D
DLPB_
Guest
In related news: Poland has got the message. They've now gone back on plans to house a few thousand Syrians. Unfortunately, Britain is still in La-La Land—as is America. David Cameron states that we will be stepping up security, but is also allowing 20,000 Syrians to be housed here virtually unchecked (the first batch arrives today).
They are either cretins, or they are deliberately trying to create a problem. When democracy was conceived of, it definitely didn't anticipate these dumb idealists being put in charge.
They are either cretins, or they are deliberately trying to create a problem. When democracy was conceived of, it definitely didn't anticipate these dumb idealists being put in charge.
Last edited:
J
JeMaCheHi
Guest
Interesting article:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/twenty...obama-does-not-want-you-to-know-about/5414735
http://www.globalresearch.ca/twenty...obama-does-not-want-you-to-know-about/5414735
D
DLPB_
Guest
Why do the Democrats do it? Can anyone tell me? I mean, are they deliberately trying to create a terror attack? ISIS have made the threat that they will bomb America and then the Democrats want to welcome unvetted immigrants from Syria and elsewhere—and AFTER Paris.
Are they insane, or are they deliberately doing it? If so - Why?
J
JeMaCheHi
Guest
That's how this global world works dude. The general idea is to panic people, and under the pretext of combat terrorism, put a set of laws that restricts more and more our freedom, so we reach a police state. And we're supposed to be conformed with it because it is "for our safety". And if someone opposes to this, or disputes it, he will be considered a paranoid or even a terrorism sympathizer. I know you don't agree with my ideals, but it's just my opinion, based on what I've seen and the world's history during the last 100 years.
D
DLPB_
Guest
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/17/hillary-obama-prefer-islam-christianity/
I think that's probably nearer to the point. Democrats are lunatics and stupid.
I think that's probably nearer to the point. Democrats are lunatics and stupid.
C
Covarr
Guest
I'd only say this of Democrat politicians (and of Republican politicians, but for entirely different reasons), not of voters. US politics are a complete mess, and the average voter is much more well balanced as a human being than the people they vote for.
D
DLPB_
Guest
I meant the Democratic party. Although if the voters elect someone like Hilary, they need help.
C
Covarr
Guest
I don't think they will. They're far more likely to vote for Bernie Sanders.
D
DLPB_
Guest
He's the guy who said that Global Warming causes terrorism? If so, he's a complete, apologist nut job as well.
D
DLPB_
Guest
More Muslim terrorism in California - and it took the authorities around three days to finally admit what everyone already knew. Obama, as far as I am aware, is still not calling it terrorism. He's that gone-in-the head with appeasement and political correctness. Still, I guess it doesn't help that just one day before the French massacre, he was on the news proclaiming that IS were contained. I don't remember a weaker president than this one.
- Status