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halkun
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Actually, there isn't an EULA in the PC version of FF7. Irregardless, this does not give you free reign to stomp all over other's IP.
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The Seer of Shadows
Guest
I, for one, think that's fair enough
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Kudistos Megistos
Guest
The pedant in me feels the need to point out that this forum (singular) is "game tweaking". Surely that's pretty much interchangeable with modding?
Are you making this argument to point out that Japanese companies are more likely to send out C&Ds to game modders than Western ones are? If not then I must ask (and please don't take this the wrong way), why should we care?
By the way, it seems that your choice of things to ban is quite arbitrary. For example, you allow us to talk about fiddling the music as much as we like because "Square seems to give it a pass" (even though I'm pretty sure that remixing and then giving away music without the original composer's permission is illegal), but forbid other things that are also illegal and given a pass. Actually, your choices might not be arbitrary, but I don't think they're consistent. Pretty much everything that is done here is illegal, n'est-ce pas? Wouldn't "the recreation of higher resolution art/models" and making a "cosmetic upgrade of existing assets" count as derivative works?
I can't help but wonder whether your decisions about what to ban and what to allow are based more on your personal feelings towards certain kinds of mods than on either the law or the chances that such mods will incur the wrath of Square. There certainly seems to be a theme; mods that don't require much work (i.e. ripping models) are banned but ones that are just as illegal but require more hard work from the modder are allowed.
I do hope that this post won't be seem as disruptive and that I won't be "disemvoweled", whtvr tht wrd mns.
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seifertemp
Guest
Kudistos
Have to say I agree with you. I ahve been in discussion with 2 people who came to me about this new topic and whilst I told them it isn't our forum, I did mention the point that it seems to be a personal attack on certain mods rather than any legality.
let us be clear, modding the game at all , changing ANY part of the exe or changing ANY part of the program files is illegal by its very nature. (I always find topics lambasting the copy of games as illegal ironic given qhimms is not exactly a picture of legality itself)
The point is, that these things are generally overlooked for older games such as FF7 and I personally would wait until a representative from square came here and told us not to do it. This is very unliekly to happen and it is further unlikely that they would prosecute any of the moderators or admins of the forum for their members posting links.
The above rules seem to pick and choose what they will allow or disallow, this one stands out to me>
Changes of "kernel.bin" are also exempt for now because, as a tool, it offers wonderful insight into the internal workings of the game.
That seems to suggest "oh well sod it, it is a great mod so don't care"
Any case, I am just making the case that I personally don't like the new rule or where it seems to be heading, but if that is the rule it is the rule.
Have to say I agree with you. I ahve been in discussion with 2 people who came to me about this new topic and whilst I told them it isn't our forum, I did mention the point that it seems to be a personal attack on certain mods rather than any legality.
let us be clear, modding the game at all , changing ANY part of the exe or changing ANY part of the program files is illegal by its very nature. (I always find topics lambasting the copy of games as illegal ironic given qhimms is not exactly a picture of legality itself)
The point is, that these things are generally overlooked for older games such as FF7 and I personally would wait until a representative from square came here and told us not to do it. This is very unliekly to happen and it is further unlikely that they would prosecute any of the moderators or admins of the forum for their members posting links.
The above rules seem to pick and choose what they will allow or disallow, this one stands out to me>
Changes of "kernel.bin" are also exempt for now because, as a tool, it offers wonderful insight into the internal workings of the game.
That seems to suggest "oh well sod it, it is a great mod so don't care"
Any case, I am just making the case that I personally don't like the new rule or where it seems to be heading, but if that is the rule it is the rule.
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seifertemp
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To be fair, this isn't how law works....there isn't degrees of "wrong" behaviour. Personal reasons for not liking a mod are fine and dandy, but not excuses for stopping them.
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seifertemp
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ahh yes but using mp3 of the music or psf is also illegal, because it is a distribution without consent. In fact music illegalty has generally been pounced on much harder than anything else...
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Prince Lex
Guest
As long as OCRemix is in existence, I think we'll be OK music-modding wise.
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halkun
Guest
For years I have enjoyed the taking apart of things to see how they work. I am not a programmer, but a "data analyst". One of my talents is that I enjoy taking large amounts of cryptic data and making something human out of them. The deconstruction of kernel.bin and the tools to help is key to learn how the engine functions. It offers us insight into how the game was created, and maintained. It's no small accident that it's also one of the very few pieces of data that can be transplanted into a PSX disk without a need for a remaster. Programs that allow is access to kernel.bin allow us to test the limits of the AI scripting system, engine mathematics, and more "under the hood" things. This forum was designed so like-minded individuals could reach an understanding about how final fantasies were put together, and to research what makes it stand out. Programs like PrC and Wallmarket offer is the ability to see the engine turn. It's the experiments and the discovery of new functions that I find cool and amazing.
I've devoted 10 years of my life learning how this engine works, and what it so revolutionary. I don't want to see it go away because someone thought it would be cool to throw in a bunch of hacked and broken Crisis Core models into the game to "improve it" and pissing off Square in the process.
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halkun
Guest
You are not the boss of me! (Keep in mind in another, less generous forum, this would of included me giving you a temporary vacation from the forums)
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Lionfist
Guest
Dude,he even said "please".
I think you misunderstood him.
And btw
Japanese people DO NOT think that we are destroying their art with modding, where do you heard that from? i love the j-culture and tbh, they are better modders then we are..especially the game companies themselfs :wink:
Edit: does qhimm even know about this?
I mean seriously, he should be clever enough to know from all the years here, that this is just plain stupid right now. (don't take it personal halkun.)
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Lionfist
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Read my posts on the first page, im not talking about getting stuff, i said only releasing is illegal, not the stuff we are now putting in a rule (information&talking about it etc)
Srsly, lrn 2 read. No offense...
AND
i know how 2 make my stuff, thats why i never asked for models in the threads :wink:
So, please be clever :|
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Millenia
Guest
Good thing you're being stricter, way better to be safe than sorry.
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Lionfist
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I never said those aren't better, i agree that own models and textures beat others, 'cus its often a community project and made from zero.I think that talking about and showing screenshots etc on stuff you have stolen from someone else is just as much not legal as sharing it with others. (It can get the forum in trouble if Square doesn't like it.) Because if a lot of people does it because of this site, they will shut it down right. I agree with Halkun, these rules will encourage people to make all their mod content by themself instead of stealing it from someone else. And the site will not be in danger.
To be honest, I think Timusimusus Barret and Millenias weapons are a lot better than some of the models from Crisis Core and Dissidia. Timus Barret is in class with the Crisis Core models, while keeping the FFVII style. And Millenias weapons are commercial quality. I want to see more custom made stuff, ripped models are boring. Make a model Lionfist. :wink: If you can't learn how to!
World class reply!
And what you think (I don't wanna sound aggressive) is not important, 'cus information exchange, especially at in-game data, is not illegal.
For this site not to be in danger we always had that rule that we - DO NOT - release this stuff.
That's the point i mean.
Actually i think we are just moving backwards with modding if we do that.
And, what do you intend to do if i make a model? i never made ff7 models, only modified them in kimera, i prefer to work on jedi knight models.
So please, stop treating me as an idiot who's only lurking on here for models, 'cus as i said, i never asked in any thread for models. :roll:
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Lionfist
Guest
Lmao, i just answered on your responses, i don't want to take it up with anyone :-D
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Jari
Guest
> halkun, please split if he wants another go at it.
> halkun, please
> please
But hey, if you want to go on a powertrip, please do bring it on. I'm in a foul enough mood for it.
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seifertemp
Guest
Anyway, this forum is still the best for mods and improving FF games Long may it live :-D
Long may it live :-D
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Senti
Guest
I know many are upset by this rule while many others couldn't really care less about it. For those that wish to continue the discussion of those projects they have that are no longer allowed here may do so on the following forums.
http://www.youforum.cc/ffmods/index.php
I created them specifically with a disclaimer that provides you with free posting of whatever modifications you wish to do so long as you do not host any files through the forum server (which is impossible). I will be moderating it very loosely for those that wish to use it.
http://www.youforum.cc/ffmods/index.php
I created them specifically with a disclaimer that provides you with free posting of whatever modifications you wish to do so long as you do not host any files through the forum server (which is impossible). I will be moderating it very loosely for those that wish to use it.
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Lionfist
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I count that as a (disguised) bait too. :-D
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I think Bandito is right..
@Senti
I don't think adversiting is allowed on here, i dunno to be honest 'cus we had that before a lot of times. I'll put that link in my favorites tho to be save, thank you.
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Timu Sumisu
Guest
get over it peeps the rules have been laid. There is little point in debating it. have faith in Haikun's decision, he knows what he's doin so sit down kittys n do as your told.
On a second note... I guess i should start working on a modeling course
@ millenia - you should vid record your texture work
On a second note... I guess i should start working on a modeling course
@ millenia - you should vid record your texture work
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Senti
Guest
Just noticed this (didn't realize it or must have missed it earlier) but there are varying degrees of "wrong" in the laws, each holding punishments of varying severity. For example (yes it's extreme) Murder, there are three degrees to this charge (1st degree, 2nd degree, 3rd degree), then there's the lesser crime Manslaughter which also has three degrees, each time someone kills another, they get charged with one of these. The varying degrees are dependent on the circumstances of the crime, "Was it intended or an accident? Was it premeditated or spontaneous?" etc. There are similar degrees for each and every law out there each with punishments varying from the proverbial "slap on the wrist" to the death sentence.
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