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M0T
Guest
It is very easy to look back and take what someone said and change it to fit current situations, especially since he wrote 1000's of them
- Status
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Alhexx
Guest
Sorry for this late reply, but I was sitting the whole day in front of the TV yesterday...I've got no idea what to say 'botu this - it just horrible...
(I jst hope this is NOT going to end in WW3...)
And I've got a really BAD fellin' b'out this - it's probably just the beginning of a bloody war...
- Alhexx
- Alhexx
(I jst hope this is NOT going to end in WW3...)
And I've got a really BAD fellin' b'out this - it's probably just the beginning of a bloody war...
- Alhexx
- Alhexx
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eerrrr
Guest
If this does turn into a war (didn't someone declair war or something?) then we'll win. The USA teamed up with UK, France...cant remember. But there are loads of countries that've teamed up against some little group or rebbels. I mean, if little old England beat the big Germany with a bit of help twice, this shouldn't cause too much trouble. We'll be more ready for the next hit.
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ficedula
Guest
It's not quite that simple ... I can't offhand think of any occasion when a country fighting terrorists has been successful. When it's not a whole country against you - only small groups of terrorists - what can you do? You can't just raze the whole country to the ground, then you're as bad as they are ... Remember Vietnam? All the resources of the USA - and other countries - couldn't win there, because it wasn't a simple battle, army vs. army.
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vvalentine
Guest
Straywings put a quote of Nostradamus, saying that in the "City of God". That more sounds like the city of Los Angeles, just think about it. He probably didn't know what the name was exactly, but it was something related to god and Los Angeles in spanish means angels. This is freaky. In any case, if we go to war, just because the enemy might be small countries it doesn't mean that they could not do a great damage on the U.S. They have enough nuclear weapons to put a fight with us, and plus they are suicidal maniacs. The problem is who are we going to blame it. Suppose we find the people responsible, and lets say is a small terrorist group. What are we going to do about it, we can't just go ahead and attack the country where they are located. If the country's government had something to do with this then there would be a reason to attack that country, but until then. -vvalentine
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Qhimm
Guest
What stirred the strongest emotions for me was when then showed pictures of people in mid-east countries going out to the streets to celebrate the "successful attack on the US". Everyone from small kids to grandmothers were out, waving flags and stuff. It really got my blood boiling, how the FUCK can they celebrate the deaths of thousands of innocents?! I don't care if they think the US equals Satan himself, how can anyone harbor so little respect for human life? Even the children... it just proves the world is not a healthy place in which to live....I'm just not thinking straight anymore.
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Alhexx
Guest
Like Fice said, you're not going to attack an army - you're attacking small groups. And these groups are not interested in attacking your army - their aim are the civilians...and that's one of the biggest problems...Like a friend of mine said: The war, as we know it from WW(2), is past. The new 'War' will be terrorism or 'cyberterrorism'...
- Alhexx
- Alhexx
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chowderhead
Guest
I know in our own Civil War, The North used what they referred to at the time as 'total war'-and though Yankee soldiers didn't go around shooting women and children, they did burn homes, destroyed crops and livestock, basically starved the civilian populace (I believed they called the Shenendoah valley a 'wasteland'). In effect, civilians suffered as much as the armies did, if not more. Lee's army; deprived of it's breadbasket, of new recruits willing to continue the fight, and without the backing of a people willing (or able) to continue to fight eventually just crumbled.It's a horrible thought, but this would probobly be the only way to win something like this-if it was to come to war with a country, not just a terrorist group. If you deprive them of the methods and materials of war, they cannot make war-or something like that.
How carefully did we choose targets when we bombed Germany in the second world war? You aim for targets, military targets, but weren't civilians targets as well-in a more indirect (or maybe direct-I've never studied WW2 that closely) fashion? And with the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan, how many civilians died there-too many to count?
Bush said last night that countries who harbor terrorist will be targets just as much as the terrorists themselves.
I'm just numb from watching all this. If we go to war over this, I hope we are prepared to do what it takes to win...
and may God have mercy on our souls.
How carefully did we choose targets when we bombed Germany in the second world war? You aim for targets, military targets, but weren't civilians targets as well-in a more indirect (or maybe direct-I've never studied WW2 that closely) fashion? And with the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan, how many civilians died there-too many to count?
Bush said last night that countries who harbor terrorist will be targets just as much as the terrorists themselves.
I'm just numb from watching all this. If we go to war over this, I hope we are prepared to do what it takes to win...
and may God have mercy on our souls.
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The SaiNt
Guest
Let me tell you that these terrorists have definately hit America where it hurts most. Not only did they end up killing a large amount of innocent people & injuring a lot more, they actually have managed to ensure a total collapse of the American economy.Think about it, when this incident happens, what industry will be hit the hardest? The first companies to be in panic will be the insurance compaines. And where do insurance companies invest their money? In banks and the stock market. The moment they get the chance, they'll be selling of as much as they can. The terror & insecurity felt by the residents there will only worsen the situation more.
The task of hijacking a single plane is no easy task, mind you. To think they actually managed 4!
Their plan was definately well thought of and after thinking for a while, it isn't just about attention, these people really mean business.
This could easily be a threat or warning of some sort.
Think about it, President Bush didn't seem all that surprised that something of such a large scale happened.
The task of hijacking a single plane is no easy task, mind you. To think they actually managed 4!
Their plan was definately well thought of and after thinking for a while, it isn't just about attention, these people really mean business.
This could easily be a threat or warning of some sort.
Think about it, President Bush didn't seem all that surprised that something of such a large scale happened.
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L. Spiro
Guest
I do not venture to the General Forum often.Before I make my simple statement, I must explain one thing.
I am an emotionless being. For this I consider myself lucky, for I will never feel the pain others say they have when loved ones die.
But I acknowledge that others allow their feelings to get to them, so the only point I have to make here now may seem a little cold to them. Just remember: I can’t help it.
My point: “What does this have to do with Final Fantasy® VII?â€.
From a logical standpoint, perhaps it will be more appropriate to make a new forum where this and other miscellaneous topics could be explored.
I am an emotionless being. For this I consider myself lucky, for I will never feel the pain others say they have when loved ones die.
But I acknowledge that others allow their feelings to get to them, so the only point I have to make here now may seem a little cold to them. Just remember: I can’t help it.
My point: “What does this have to do with Final Fantasy® VII?â€.
From a logical standpoint, perhaps it will be more appropriate to make a new forum where this and other miscellaneous topics could be explored.
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vvalentine
Guest
I read today, that a terrorist group al Qaeda was the one responsible for the attacks. The FBI intercepted phone calls of them talking about the attack, they are one of the groups sponsored by Osama Bin Laden. Also the officials of the Taliban are appealing to the U.S. to not attack afghanistan. Supposedly Osama bin Laden is hiding there. To be honest, I just wish the U.S. would bomb the shit out of that country so that they could stop all the stupid terrorism shit they do.-vvalentine
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ficedula
Guest
SLG: This *is* the General forum; we've discussed plenty of real-world issues here before.SaiNt: Very true. Recession was already a possibility for the US, but this has made it more likely.
Something that isn't quite so obvious it that it's going to hit Europe very hard economically. Firstly, the US is our major trade contact, so any recession in the US has a knockon effect here, too. Secondly, the cost of the disaster - all the US insurers are re-insured with the larger European banks and underwriters - Europe is basic the world centre for insurance underwriting and banking. The companies that will finally be paying out to rebuild and compensate for this are quite likely going to be European. Not to say that the US won't put in any money - of course, an enormous amount of the US emergency funds and so on will go into providing aid and so on - but this isn't a US only disaster.
Of course, nobody's denying that the US has suffered a terrible human cost that those of us not directly involved can fully understand, but we aren't isolated from the disaster over here.
vvalentine: Tempting to those people who want revenge, but in reality, all you'd accomplish would be to kill a lot of civilians. The real people who are guilty are almost certainly going to be the last people who'd be affected by any war against the country. Think of Iraq; in terms of punishing Saddam Hussain, the UN never really got anywhere. They kept him from launching attacks against other people - which was a very necessary thing - but sanctions, and even all-out attacks - never really affect the people in power until you've devastated the lives of the civilians first. It really should be a *very* last resort, to engage in a war.
Something that isn't quite so obvious it that it's going to hit Europe very hard economically. Firstly, the US is our major trade contact, so any recession in the US has a knockon effect here, too. Secondly, the cost of the disaster - all the US insurers are re-insured with the larger European banks and underwriters - Europe is basic the world centre for insurance underwriting and banking. The companies that will finally be paying out to rebuild and compensate for this are quite likely going to be European. Not to say that the US won't put in any money - of course, an enormous amount of the US emergency funds and so on will go into providing aid and so on - but this isn't a US only disaster.
Of course, nobody's denying that the US has suffered a terrible human cost that those of us not directly involved can fully understand, but we aren't isolated from the disaster over here.
vvalentine: Tempting to those people who want revenge, but in reality, all you'd accomplish would be to kill a lot of civilians. The real people who are guilty are almost certainly going to be the last people who'd be affected by any war against the country. Think of Iraq; in terms of punishing Saddam Hussain, the UN never really got anywhere. They kept him from launching attacks against other people - which was a very necessary thing - but sanctions, and even all-out attacks - never really affect the people in power until you've devastated the lives of the civilians first. It really should be a *very* last resort, to engage in a war.
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Trilinear
Guest
To whoever posted the "Nostradamus" quote:
[url="<a]http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html[/url]" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html Appearently that 'quote' is a hoax...
[url="<a]http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html[/url]" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html Appearently that 'quote' is a hoax...
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Caddberry
Guest
Thats some shit the us coming apart and the fucking board closing.. What a fucking couple of days.. Schools were dismissed early they sent workers home here and a whole bunch of shit... Fuck those palastinians (recent news in the US is that they have linked the attacks to Ben Ladin) <<<~~~~~ Fuck him! if i could i would kill them all... Fuck the whole fucking middle east.. Kill them all then take over the oil supply.. Gas over here is about $2 a gallon. in Springfield(capital of illinois) its $3.00.. I hope Bush Nukes the assholes.. and i atleast think he will bomb the hell out of them.. I am still in shock.. i think that is because i havent physically seen it .. i have on tv but not in person.. If they fight i hope they give me a gun...
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Lyra
Guest
quote:"...how the FUCK can they celebrate the deaths of thousands of innocents?! I don't care if they think the US equals Satan himself, how can anyone harbor so little respect for human life? " Don't take this the wrong way, because I was appalled at these events as many of you were I'm sure, but really, don't condemn so quickly. Remember when the US bombed Iraq (was it Iraq? I don't remember) and interfered in all those things? Those people that celebrated probably see the US as the one that 'harbors so little respect for human life' because of all those actions. I am not trying to justify the people, or even endear you to them, but really, it isn't entirely their fault. Again, don't take this the wrong way, even though I know some of you will, I was very displeased with the whole bit as you all are, but don't condemn the people so quickly until you have walked in their shoes (I know that sounds cliched) and I mean really, are we all that different? And this is just about the people that rejoiced and such, not the actual terrorists and such, nor in any way downplaying the deaths of all those people, this post of mine is just about the people rejoicing, nothing else.
[This message has been edited by Lyra (edited September 13, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Lyra (edited September 13, 2001).]
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Sephiroth 3D
Guest
I want to share this before I go into a rant. My dad got this email today. I know this is a multi-nationality msgboard, so this might strike a chord with some of you. I apologize in advance.
Being an West Coast American with no particular love of the military or fighting in general, I find it rather coarse of some of you who just want to fuck the people who did this. I agree, they should pay, and I agree that it would be difficult to impossible to do considering what kind of enemy we are facing.
This declarition of war from the people responible will not only effect the US, but the whole world. Those who are pledging their support in America's quest for Justice (Probably interchangeable with "Vengance") are getting ready to help the US strike at the very heart of terroism itself.
Israil (I think) make an unoffical declaration, saying that the line in the sand has been drawn. Now it is time to see where each country stands on the subject of terrorism. For or against.
World War 3 may not happen. However, it may also be much more likely than most people think.
The slowly sloping recession is going to make a nose dive when the US stock market opens tomorrow. What's worse is that because so many banks were detstroyed with the twin towers, there is a possibility of a depression not un-like the one that visited us in the 1930's.
Such a depression was not lifted until America joined the 2nd World War after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. By starting a major war, America may be able to stop this depression before it begins.
However, starting a war where so many lives would be lost, simply for the cause of stopping the economic colapse is not only unlikly, it's also unheard of, and won't be supported by the American people.
Once our Justice has be extracted and the world see's the truely unrivaled power of the US, Our lives may either return to "normal" or be shifted forever by events yet unknown to us.
Either way you look at it, more people will suffer an die before this is all over.
Sephiroth 3D
"One who seeks knowledge from another person, doesn't learn half as much as the one who seeks knowledge for himself." - Vincent Valentine, The Sephiroth Chronicals, Book 1: Resurrection
[email protected]
Sephiroth 3D's Final Fantasy (Currently Offline)
[url="<a]http://members.tripod.com/~Sephiroth3D/index.html[/url]" TARGET=_blank>Sephiroth 3D's Promised Land
PS: Damn! This is my longest message to date!
I think it's something you should all have read.
Being an West Coast American with no particular love of the military or fighting in general, I find it rather coarse of some of you who just want to fuck the people who did this. I agree, they should pay, and I agree that it would be difficult to impossible to do considering what kind of enemy we are facing.
War has been declaired. Those who are activly and willingly helping the people responsible, be it 5 people out of their trailer in Africa, Saddam Hussien, or an entire counrty in the Middle East, will feel the full brute force of America's Justice come upon them. And not even the combined power of the entire Middle East can stop an enraged America.
This declarition of war from the people responible will not only effect the US, but the whole world. Those who are pledging their support in America's quest for Justice (Probably interchangeable with "Vengance") are getting ready to help the US strike at the very heart of terroism itself.
Israil (I think) make an unoffical declaration, saying that the line in the sand has been drawn. Now it is time to see where each country stands on the subject of terrorism. For or against.
World War 3 may not happen. However, it may also be much more likely than most people think.
The slowly sloping recession is going to make a nose dive when the US stock market opens tomorrow. What's worse is that because so many banks were detstroyed with the twin towers, there is a possibility of a depression not un-like the one that visited us in the 1930's.
Such a depression was not lifted until America joined the 2nd World War after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. By starting a major war, America may be able to stop this depression before it begins.
However, starting a war where so many lives would be lost, simply for the cause of stopping the economic colapse is not only unlikly, it's also unheard of, and won't be supported by the American people.
Once our Justice has be extracted and the world see's the truely unrivaled power of the US, Our lives may either return to "normal" or be shifted forever by events yet unknown to us.
Either way you look at it, more people will suffer an die before this is all over.
Sephiroth 3D
"One who seeks knowledge from another person, doesn't learn half as much as the one who seeks knowledge for himself." - Vincent Valentine, The Sephiroth Chronicals, Book 1: Resurrection
[email protected]
Sephiroth 3D's Final Fantasy (Currently Offline)
[url="<a]http://members.tripod.com/~Sephiroth3D/index.html[/url]" TARGET=_blank>Sephiroth 3D's Promised Land
PS: Damn! This is my longest message to date!
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Srethron Askvelhtnod
Guest
Qhimm:
I think it was symbolism enough that the planes hijacked were from "American Airlines" and "U.S. Continental" or something like that.
If a prophecy is not specific, or if the prophet is wrong even once, I find it very hard to respect or believe it/them.eerrrr:
didn't even want to be involved in the war, and that naturally made our leaders rather unpopular. Eventually, to try to salvage things they pulled out. But I agree, it wasn't a normal war. It was all jungle, guerilla tactics, and so forth.vvalentine:
More examples from stuff you've posted (I hope I'm not compromising Remake security here :wink:
Why make a big deal out of this? Well, I guess it's because I have an uncomfortable time with anyone who tries to act as if they are impervious to and without emotions. Possibly because I used to try to do that myself, trying to suppress my emotions and act as though I had none, to the point of unmoveability. I eventually realized that it was mostly a defensive tactic that came out of my very low self-esteem. In fact, I think that it was almost a subconscious attempt on my part to make up for my shortcomings by viewing myself as better than others. After all, I was not burdened by emotions, which were obviously pure folly, and, therefore, I was better than those I despised.
I'm not accusing you of having an inferority complex like I have (again, only you know the truth). You're certainly entitled to your opinion (although opinions pretty much==emotions...), and this is just my own opinion; but I *seriously* doubt that anyone human is without emotions. It's just an essential part of how we are made up.
end RANT.Anyway, the terrorism affected me as well. I don't exactly feel much sympathy for the victims, mostly because of 2 things:
1. I have not seen any of the news footage
and
2. It just all seems rather distant and unreal to me. Maybe if I actually knew some of the people who died or if I'd ever been to New York it would be different. That's what it was like for things like the Columbine Massacre. That just hit a lot closer to home for me. Of course, it should have. Heck, I was at the same concert as the 2 killers a night or so before they went on their rampage. But somehow this just doesn't seem the same.
Anyway, things are still in a tizzy here. My state has a number of potential terrorist targets (IIRC, we house the "secret" backup US military/government HQ in addition to a trade center), and the President briefly came out to an adjacent state because they learned that the White House and Air Force 1 were targets.
All mail is frozen. The only plane is a military plane that's carrying aid supplies/workers or mail or something back and forth between here and somewhere else at all hours of the day. I couldn't connect to the 'net for a whole day, and the only news anywhere and everywhere was terrorism, terrorism, terrorism. I think people are getting tired of it.
Sooner or later, people's thoughts will probably switch from grief and shock to violence and revenge. If the government doesn't do anything, the people will (mobs/riots/witchhunts). Unless whoever did this knows something we don't, mobilizing America against them was *not* a smart idea.
I agree. However, there *could* still have been a lot of people who vaporized. As many as 10,000 different people in each of the Towers, plus people on the ground and in adjacent buildings. I also remember hearing that two more NY buildings have since also fallen. Last night they said there were about 300 Fireman and Police who were on the scene when the first tower collapsed and are believed dead. There's something like 200+ confirmed dead at the Pentagon, and the total number for the dead passengers of the 4 hijacked planes seem to be hovering in the high 260s. Last I heard about New York, a top goverment official was quoted as "hoping" that an estimate of 800 dead from the Towers was unrealistically high.
I get the impression that he's angry, and, instead of exploding, he's putting his anger to constructive purposes.
Check out the stuff their kids are learning in school sometime. All kinds of stuff that absolutely brainwashes their kids with Muslim extremism against Israel and the rest of the West. Frightfully violent anti-West and anti-Israel stuff. Even children's songs have been rewritten.Jari Huttunen:
In addition, if the perpetrators *are*, in fact, extremist Muslim terrorists, than it's also a matter of their Jihad/"holy" war against us. We are merely "infidels", of whom it is an "honor" to kill.
I think there's some truth to that. Why else hasn't whoever it is that did it claimed responsibility? The intent of terrorism is to sow terror, after all.dagsverre:
I agree. Really hard to negotiate with people who don't want to negotiate...darkness:
IIRC, that's the warning Jari was referring to. The reporter who got it didn't bother to report it until after what happened yesterday. Osama bin Laden and the Taliban leader (ruler of Afghanistan in everything but name) have both denied involvement. However, I guess there's several US intelligence reports (intercepted transmissions) that indicate otherwise.StrayWings:
If you want my personal opinion, that's just superstition.
I think it was symbolism enough that the planes hijacked were from "American Airlines" and "U.S. Continental" or something like that.I agree with Ficedula. I'd bet a lot that those "predictions" were just as intentionally vague as the one you just listed.
If a prophecy is not specific, or if the prophet is wrong even once, I find it very hard to respect or believe it/them.eerrrr: From what I hear it's every member of NATO. "...an attack on one member is an attack on all members..." etc. etc.ficedula:
Actually, IIRC, it wasn't the whole US army. (I'm pretty sure at it wasn't ever much more than 700,000 marines.) The main reason we pulled out was because the majority of the American public (this was the 70s, after all :wink
didn't even want to be involved in the war, and that naturally made our leaders rather unpopular. Eventually, to try to salvage things they pulled out. But I agree, it wasn't a normal war. It was all jungle, guerilla tactics, and so forth.vvalentine: Well, if you *really* want some very specific prophecies that came true centuries after they were made, check out the Bible sometime.SLG:
Unless you are not a human, I find that hard to believe. Humans are emotional beings. Therefore, everyone has emotions. For instance, your very handle is "Some-Loser-Girl". From that it is very easy to infer that you have a low opinion of yourself, and that is therefore why you chose your handle. That may not be the case, only you know the truth, but one's self esteem is rather directly linked with emotions. Perhaps your handle has some other meaning, such as a humourous intent, but that too is directly linked with emotion. Spock didn't go around calling himself "Some-Loser-Guy".
More examples from stuff you've posted (I hope I'm not compromising Remake security here :wink
:Is this a personal attack? Of course not. If it hurts your feelings, I apologize. Of course, if you really don't have any feelings (feelings=emotions), then I guess I have nothing to worry about...
Why make a big deal out of this? Well, I guess it's because I have an uncomfortable time with anyone who tries to act as if they are impervious to and without emotions. Possibly because I used to try to do that myself, trying to suppress my emotions and act as though I had none, to the point of unmoveability. I eventually realized that it was mostly a defensive tactic that came out of my very low self-esteem. In fact, I think that it was almost a subconscious attempt on my part to make up for my shortcomings by viewing myself as better than others. After all, I was not burdened by emotions, which were obviously pure folly, and, therefore, I was better than those I despised.
I'm not accusing you of having an inferority complex like I have (again, only you know the truth). You're certainly entitled to your opinion (although opinions pretty much==emotions...), and this is just my own opinion; but I *seriously* doubt that anyone human is without emotions. It's just an essential part of how we are made up.
end RANT.Anyway, the terrorism affected me as well. I don't exactly feel much sympathy for the victims, mostly because of 2 things:
1. I have not seen any of the news footage
and
2. It just all seems rather distant and unreal to me. Maybe if I actually knew some of the people who died or if I'd ever been to New York it would be different. That's what it was like for things like the Columbine Massacre. That just hit a lot closer to home for me. Of course, it should have. Heck, I was at the same concert as the 2 killers a night or so before they went on their rampage. But somehow this just doesn't seem the same.
Anyway, things are still in a tizzy here. My state has a number of potential terrorist targets (IIRC, we house the "secret" backup US military/government HQ in addition to a trade center), and the President briefly came out to an adjacent state because they learned that the White House and Air Force 1 were targets.
All mail is frozen. The only plane is a military plane that's carrying aid supplies/workers or mail or something back and forth between here and somewhere else at all hours of the day. I couldn't connect to the 'net for a whole day, and the only news anywhere and everywhere was terrorism, terrorism, terrorism. I think people are getting tired of it.
Sooner or later, people's thoughts will probably switch from grief and shock to violence and revenge. If the government doesn't do anything, the people will (mobs/riots/witchhunts). Unless whoever did this knows something we don't, mobilizing America against them was *not* a smart idea.
C
chowderhead
Guest
Sepiroth 3d: Well said. We're entering new territory here, and none of know where to go with it. Again, the fact that we have yet to retaliate shows our collective restraint-and though we may clamor for justice (or vengence) out of frustration, I think our leaders are smart enough not just to lash out at the first thing that comes along. The 'talking heads' on TV are saying we'll probobly go into a war-time economy, and that may bring us out of a recession-too bad it happens for all the wrong reasons. War is not something we should want, or hope for, or ever have to experience. But if necessary-if we wish to continue in our free and open society, we must rise to the occasion and defend it. (christ, I sound like a politician)and finally, a qoute:
"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it." - Robert E. Lee
"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it." - Robert E. Lee
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ficedula
Guest
And where exactly is that?
If it DOES turn out to be Palestinian terrorists - well, I think their government has already condemned the attack and probably isn't going to refuse the US permission to send people into Palestine if they think someone involved in the attack is there. So what then? Where's your grand and noble war? You've got no target except a few dozen terrorists who are probably lying low at the moment - even if you track them down, that's still not going to need aerial bombardments from the US air force.
Everybody's assuming there's some big country that will stand up and say "Yes! I will help the terrorists escape justice! Please bomb us, USA!" In reality, it's perfectly possible that most countries are likely to offer cooperation to the US - on the surface at least. What then? Bomb Afghan because their police aren't putting in enough overtime to help you track down the culprits?
I agree that justice needs to be done - but far too many people (not everybody in this forum, it has to be said, but a large part of the US public) seem to think that automatically equates to a 'just war' against a whole country. That's isn't necessarily the case ... I can understand WHY they 'want' (support would be a better word) a war, after all, they want someone to pay for what's happened ... but you have to understand there may not be a guilty country behind this. It may just be a small group of terrorists. We simply don't know yet.
[This message has been edited by ficedula (edited September 13, 2001).]
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dagsverre
Guest
Sephiroth: About "TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES"...Yes, US has done a lot of great things. However, it has also done a lot of bad things. These people had a reason for their terrorism. I'm not saying what they did was right, because it was very wrong, but still they had their sick reasons for it. It's not something that suddenly came into their head, they had *some* motivation for this. From that, you can conclude that for some people in the world US has done bad things. They have done a lot of great things but also a lot of bad things. Why is it that all americans take the honor for all the good things the country does but when it does something bad it's either the government's fault or they don't even know about it...
For instance, US is materially supporting some of the undemocratic/totalist regimes in the sector because it ensures a steady flow of cheap oil to US. Also the conflict between USA and USSR fucked up the region some years ago.
I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying that everything has more than one side. In this matter the whole western world has sympathy with US no matter what anyway. I just hope it won't escalate into a war as then we would either have to a) kill everyone in the middle-east and everyone who has ever sympatized with them, or b) watch the new WTC disaster in twenty years when the kids suffering from the war we are about to create now are old enough to think about terrorism. Taking out only the terrorists would be a good solution....if they can be found, which I doubt.
Oh, and true democracies in the region wouldn't be bad either and perhaps a war-like thing could do that...though I guess that wouldn't be good for the economy as the oil prices would probably rise from that.
Again, just trying to say that everything has more than one side. I could go on with 'nam and stuff but I guess I've made myself unpopular enough as it is.
(NB NB! I'm of course not supporting these actions in any way, I'm as shocked as the rest of you actually...it hasn't sunk quite in yet, the realization is coming slowly...it's like...unreal...)
BTW, the article you mention is discussed on slashdot: [url="<a]http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21572&cid=2286667[/url]" TARGET=_blank>http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21572&cid=2286667
[This message has been edited by dagsverre (edited September 13, 2001).]
For instance, US is materially supporting some of the undemocratic/totalist regimes in the sector because it ensures a steady flow of cheap oil to US. Also the conflict between USA and USSR fucked up the region some years ago.
I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying that everything has more than one side. In this matter the whole western world has sympathy with US no matter what anyway. I just hope it won't escalate into a war as then we would either have to a) kill everyone in the middle-east and everyone who has ever sympatized with them, or b) watch the new WTC disaster in twenty years when the kids suffering from the war we are about to create now are old enough to think about terrorism. Taking out only the terrorists would be a good solution....if they can be found, which I doubt.
Oh, and true democracies in the region wouldn't be bad either and perhaps a war-like thing could do that...though I guess that wouldn't be good for the economy as the oil prices would probably rise from that.
Again, just trying to say that everything has more than one side. I could go on with 'nam and stuff but I guess I've made myself unpopular enough as it is.
(NB NB! I'm of course not supporting these actions in any way, I'm as shocked as the rest of you actually...it hasn't sunk quite in yet, the realization is coming slowly...it's like...unreal...)
BTW, the article you mention is discussed on slashdot: [url="<a]http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21572&cid=2286667[/url]" TARGET=_blank>http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21572&cid=2286667
[This message has been edited by dagsverre (edited September 13, 2001).]
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