[SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!

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I understand what you're saying DLPB. And that's not what I am trying to get across fully.


Your example of Cloud turning into a beatle is quite surreal, I get your point. I agree there are objective metrics to measure the quality of a story. I studied that very thing in University.

Nomura is not to my taste. I don't think he's a good director or storyteller. And I personally find some of what he did in the remake disgusting to my taste. I agree the sidequests are boring padding. I agree that negatively affects the pacing. People are still allowed to love it. And I think they should be allowed to love it without disrespect. There are ways to state your opinions without alienating people.

It's as you said liking and disliking are subjective. However, the way you go about posting your viewpoints is done in a way that doesn't leave room for anyone elses'. That's what I take issue with. I think people's viewpoints on something that is ultimately a work of art should be respected. Even if you disagree. I respect your views, and even agree with some of them DLPB.

Opinions are indeed weighted, and people's observal realities will differ from person to person. Some of the plot points added might hit home with someone more than if they've lived a similar experience. Especially with some of the added Avalanche stuff.


The ending is a bit difficult for me to defend, but after having seen it... It is way more vague than some posts would lead you to believe. Zack being alive isn't made 100% clear. It could just as easily be interpretted as Aeris/Aerith having a vision from the lifestream.


It being lowbrow doesn't make it objectively bad.

No not all opinions are equal. However, respect of other's opinions should be. Especially in a communal space. And this applies to many people in this thread, not just you DLPB. So please don't think I am antagonizing you. I actually quite enjoy your posts, when you're being civil. Some people poke you, and I don't agree with that either.

I hope my points are a little more clear now.

Edit: apologies for the woeful grammar. It's 2AM here, my ability to English properly has diminished.
 
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I honestly think the good stuff in the remake is in spite of Nomura not because of him. As creative lead, this is his baby. He okay'd everything. I'm confused by some of the choices made, but as someone who isn't going to be playing the remake it doesn't affect me personally. I very much think people are on a nostalgia high for the most part, and we'll have a situation where it will dawn on people the gravity of the changes made. It could easily go either way in terms of public consensus. Personally, I am not a fan. I can also see why people would find it compelling, because it changes up what they know. Personally, I think Nomura just wanted to put his personal stamp on everything - without much respect to what was already there. That is my opinion though. It is not the end all be all.


Also apologies for repeated words and grammar mistakes, my brain is tired. Haha
 
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It's not an opinion to state there is bad storytelling, bad voice acting, bad pacing, and crappy fetch quests.  These can and are being demonstrated.  This subjective excuse creeps into every single debate and every time I call nonsense on it because it is.  If Cloud turned into an alien dung beetle and entered Sephiroth's brain through his ear and then proceeded to control Sephiroth from that point on - it's objectively poor storytelling.   It doesn't matter what word you give to it or this remake - it's lowbrow crap.   If we go by the logic that "opinons are all equal" then what I've just said is every bit as valid as a believable story.  You can't honestly with a straight face think that's the case.

Also, opinions are weighted - ad often based on facts and observable realities.  Shouting the word opinion is not a valid counterargument.
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It absolutely is an opinion to state that the voice acting is bad, especially in this case. You must have very little experience with voice acted media as a whole if this is something you sincerely believe. Pacing is also subjective and often involves world building at the expense of the plot slowing down. Whether you enjoy that or not is based on how immersed you are in the setting, and of course, this entire point hinges on actually playing the game and experiencing it for yourself. Just because you dislike the plot device used at the end of the game doesn't necessarily make it bad, and certainly not objectively so. I agree that the quests are objectively terrible, but that's where it ends.

There only nonsense here is you presenting your opinions as fact.
 
Combat System is a mess. I mean how could anyone think that combat system makes sense? If you don't hit, you don't get ATB, so if enemy is out of range you basically can't do anything, no use items no use of magics. Lot of damages taken without even noticing, ATB ruined if you get hit while doing an ability.


Is that true?  Yes. Or No.  Because if Yes - that's another reason why someone like me would not like this game.  Yes.  or No.
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 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Imagine crapping so badly on a battle system without even actually knowing the basics of it.

This thread has gone to crap. A bunch of people crapping on the game against a bunch of people that find the game enjoyable.

Also imagine stating that an average score of 8 (our of 10) is bad.

For example just a thing like this(automatic z-targeting and gap closing auto attacks) are things that I do not find attractive in a game (its like being held by the hand and extremely limits the freedom too much for my taste),
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Yes, good thing that in the original you have to just spam the ok button.

Don't you find that incredibly ironic?
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Don't waste your time. Some of these people are objectively insane.
 
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Yes, good thing that in the original you have to just spam the ok button.
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Not in my personal version which was modded for years I guarantee you that:) This also wasn't about the difficulty of the game per se, rather that this mechanic is not appealing to me because it limits the freedom in an action based fight.
 
I can see why people would love or hate both systems. After watching my friend playthrough the remake on a stream, the combat is certainly not as hack and slashy as it looks. You have to make a lot of mid-combat choices. And if you don't have a plan, you die.

While I do wish Square stuck with something turn based, it doesn't fully upset me either. It did for awhile.

I think there are tasteful ways to make changes to the original and still be faithful modernization of the original. Resident Evil 2 Remake is fairly close to that mark for me. I loved that game, despite missing some things from the original. I thought it was a faithful modernization.

I think FF7 could have been the same thing. The plot device at the end, and foreshadowed throughout is my main gripe - and what it means for the rest of the series. At the moment is it is a bit vague. I might end up reserving full judgement until all the parts are released. However, at the moment my aprehension is palpable.
 
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Well I really enjoy the entertainment this topic provides, love to read the back and forth.

now on topic, Well ive played enough to give my final opinion. I highly enjoy the game for what it is. Sidequests suck, Narrative aspects are relatively bad across the board, combat is very fun, visuals are great despite some flawed textures which i can overlook and if you can accept that bosses seem to be a bit spongy only for "the sake of it" then they are very well done.

Overall im satisfied due to lack of expectations and never having cared for the original. =)
 
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This thread has gone to crap. A bunch of people crapping on the game against a bunch of people that find the game enjoyable.
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if it has, you can thank yourself for being a contributor

there are about 5 posts hanging around this forum from you that calls someone (usually DLPB...) "special" or "on the spectrum" (i'd be more than happy to link them all if you'd like)

that's really cool of you to blast the entire special needs community to win your final fantasy argument

people should be able to express their differing opinions without ANY insults, and frankly -Ric-, you have NO leg to stand on to call out others for this

your posts pour fuel into the fire almost every time
 
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Lets lynch this man. I have torches and 1 pitch fork.
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i nonetheless enjoyed it for what it was for me, more of the ff formula i came to love with ff6 :P
 
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i nonetheless enjoyed it for what it was for me, more of the ff formula i came to love with ff6 :P
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FF6 is the ultimate proof that graphics should take a back seat to script, gameplay, music, etc

games on the SNES stand the test of time
 
if it has, you can thank yourself for being a contributor

there are about 5 posts hanging around this forum from you that calls someone (usually DLPB...) "special" or "on the spectrum" (i'd be more than happy to link them all if you'd like)
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Why are you trying to make it sound as if I want to/would hide them? Link them all you want, I couldn't care less lol. I've posted multiple times, including in response to moderator warnings that I stand by everything I've posted.

your posts pour fuel into the fire almost every time
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That is true. I am trying to be less toxic and no, I'm not being sarcastic. That is why I will not address the rest of your post. If you're so keen on researching my previous posts, you will absolutely find the reason why I'm "mean" towards certain users. I'm going to stick to the topic from now. FF7R-related comments only.
 
FF6 is the ultimate proof that graphics should take a back seat to script, gameplay, music, etc

games on the SNES stand the test of time
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Signed
 
Opinion vs fact. Objective vs subjective. Like vs dislike.

It's all fine in a DISCUSSION. But do not, I repeat, DO NOT result to personal insults for justifying your arguments. It's like sl1982 said, "It's not what you say but how you say it." We all need to be above that kind of behavior and act like the civil adults we are.

If the personal insults continue, don't instigate it by responding with your own insults. Use the report button and be on your way. The Rules for these forums are clear. Consider this everyone's freebie warning.
 
FF6 is the ultimate proof that graphics should take a back seat to script, gameplay, music, etc

games on the SNES stand the test of time
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Something we can all agree on. 6 is one of the best games ever made.

Opinion vs fact. Objective vs subjective. Like vs dislike.

It's all fine in a DISCUSSION. But do not, I repeat, DO NOT result to personal insults for justifying your arguments. It's like sl1982 said, "It's not what you say but how you say it." We all need to be above that kind of behavior and act like the civil adults we are.

If the personal insults continue, don't instigate it by responding with your own insults. Use the report button and be on your way. The Rules for these forums are clear. Consider this everyone's freebie warning.
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Got it.
 
I can see why people would love or hate both systems. After watching my friend playthrough the remake on a stream, the combat is certainly not as hack and slashy as it looks. You have to make a lot of mid-combat choices. And if you don't have a plan, you die.

While I do wish Square stuck with something turn based, it doesn't fully upset me either. It did for awhile.

I think there are tasteful ways to make changes to the original and still be faithful modernization of the original. Resident Evil 2 Remake is fairly close to that mark for me. I loved that game, despite missing some things from the original. I thought it was a faithful modernization.

I think FF7 could have been the same thing. The plot device at the end, and foreshadowed throughout is my main gripe - and what it means for the rest of the series. At the moment is it is a bit vague. I might end up reserving full judgement until all the parts are released. However, at the moment my aprehension is palpable.
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Depends on what exactly you mean by modernization. Something is lost from the original RE2 with the addition of free camera. It's not entirely the same type of game anymore. Although, I think they would have made RE1-3 with free camera etc, if they weren't "limited". Probably. I dunno.

In the case of FF7 though, considering battle mechanics only, it was certainly not limitations that made Square chose what type of game to make. Something is gone when you remove battle mechanics entirely (duh), and what you get instead in FF7R is something that feels completely different. Natural evolution? No, this is not the "natural evolution" of turn based games, and it's certainly not a faithful adaptation of it. It could probably be an entirely different type of action game and some people (probably the same people) would still call it a faithful adaptation. Not saying action games are bad btw.

The impression I get however, from reviews and so forth, is that this is indeed thee natural evolution off FF7.
I wonder how people would react if FF7R-2 changes genre again to, lets say, FPS. Would that be bad? Not a natural next step? Why is change bad? Why is it ok for FF7R to change genre from the original, but not FF7R-2 to change genre from FF7R? Personally I would find it interesting if SE does that. To see how people react.

And on the new plot stuff. FF7 originally was a bit too convoluted, imo. The new story elements kinda escalates the convolution exponentially. And is, at least at the face of it, questionable at best, but comes off as horribly juvenile storytelling. It's how I would picture a mid schooler write a FF7 fanfic if they played too much kingdom hearts.
 

“Nailed it. I know. Thank you. Moving on.”  :-D


Coming in, I thought I’d be cringing at the VA dialog because I’ve always had my own imagination of the character’s personalities. But, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by most of the characters. Biggs is the only one I’m not feeling any connection with so far.

The impression I get however, from reviews and so forth, is that this is indeed thee natural evolution off FF7.
I wonder how people would react if FF7R-2 changes genre again to, lets say, FPS. Would that be bad? Not a natural next step? Why is change bad? Why is it ok for FF7R to change genre from the original, but not FF7R-2 to change genre from FF7R? Personally I would find it interesting if SE does that. To see how people react.
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That would be a hard one to swallow for me. I’m not into the FPS genre, so the RPG elements would have to really shine.
 
It's odd with Biggs because Gideon Emery is a decent VA but it's more the script for Biggs, it really doesn't have much to it with no real chance to stand out.
 
I think you're right. The script (and maybe director) doesn't give him much to shine upon. Reminds me of Hayden Christensen for the Star Wars prequels. Good actor with mediocre writing and direction to work with.
 
You know, aside from a few things like Roche and the Watchmen of Fate, I'm actually enjoying some of the new content they added to expand the story.


Visiting Jessie's house in the plate was pretty neat. And chapter 6 had a cool concept for a level, where you're directly underneath the plate suspended above the slums. The backgrounds in this game are really beautiful. And I heard good stuff about the Church and Wall Market portions of the game, even though I haven't gotten there yet.


I'm a little torn. When the game is accurate to the story I think it's very good stuff. But I know by the end the story is going to take the story in a very different direction, and it's concerning. Guess we just gotta wait and see.
 
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