[SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!

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Did they promise a 1:1 remake, though? I know I personally didn't expect one, from the first trailer it was pretty apparent that they will take many liberties in terms of the story and combat, so that's what I was expecting from them for last couple of years.
Never said I expected a 1:1 remake. Cause that's no remake, that's a remaster. I won't even bother discussing gameplay aspects, cause those are not what decides remake vs reboot. Only the story does. And a good 85% of the game is a proper Remake.


But if you add an entity that has prior knowledge of what has happened in the original, pieces from the original are thrown in your face at every attempt, actively interferes when things deviate, and finally the game makes you destroy said entity to "open up the future", well, that's a reboot.


That said, IMO everything unrelated to those whispers, aka a good 85% of the game is worth a solid 8.5~9. Gameplay is good, plot expansion is good, visuals are stunning, character interactions are good and faithful, plot changes are actually good. I'm thinking of the entire wall market quest here. It's ok, that's the kind of change i expect from a Remake. This game is good and enjoyable.


The reboot part is complete shit though. I could've been interested in a "what if" alternate version of FF7, but the way they handled it, with 3 nonsense useless boss fights in a row where enemies are just HP sponges, 3 IQ lines like "he's the bad guy" "yeah!", "destiny" repeated a hundred times... how can that be considered good storytelling by anyone's standard? The quality drop in the narration is huge.

Also if i had any interest in a "what if" it's now gone. How can i trust them if that's what they come up with when left to their own devices?


That said, the way they used those whisperes makes the overall vote drop to 7.5~8.
 
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Fast reply as I don't have time now.

Not pissed, but disappointed (and ammused at the "whisperers" stuff,  lmao, what a mess).

FF7R is a blatant marked-research game with some crazy, over the top kingdom hearts crap thrown in.

Added/changed/retconned story: There are good things here, but mostly main-stream cringe. Would work great in a cartoon with a returning villain each episode. Like TMNT or something.

Graphics, music and overall technical presentation is good.

Music is all good afaict.

The gameplay is not my cup of tea, so I'm not the right person to judge. I tire of these kinds of games very easily. I'm still baffled that not more people are disappointed that this "remake" is another genre then what it's based on.
 
Did they promise a 1:1 remake, though? I know I personally didn't expect one, from the first trailer it was pretty apparent that they will take many liberties in terms of the story and combat, so that's what I was expecting from them for last couple of years.
Combat yes. When was it ever "apparent" in the slightest that they would take "many liberties in terms of the story"? As in the main story arc? They may do that and may have hinted it on unnecessary things like Tseng not appearing with a helicopter to show the captured Aerith but it being shown on a screen, ok, fine.

But letting characters survive that die, let Shinra blow up their reactors which are their income along with probably hundreds of security robots, hard- and software in there (which is again far different from blowing up sector 7 where there is nothing but junk that doesnt even belong to Shinra (and in addition they knew the Avanalanche hideout was somewhere in sector 7 at that time which makes blowing it up perfectly logical)), give everybody DBZ matrix abilities like flying, telekinesis (and oh don't forget Cloud slicing the Shinra main building in half with his freaking sword), implement time travel and Watchers of fate implying that all that happened in the original was fate anyway and at no point where you in the slightest danger because everything had to be like that....is just utter crap. It shows that the current devs either have never paid attention to the originals story at any point in time or not even played it or just don't care because this new stuff sells.

FF7R is a blatant marked-research game with some crazy, over the top kingdom hearts crap thrown in.
Sums it up pretty perfectly.
 
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40hrs in and I've yet to experience anything that is just pandering to the masses via market research.

That being said there are plenty things I have issue with like the lack of player character ai adjustment, the weapon upgrades having little to no drawbacks for building them poorly, some optimisation issues on older hardware.

Story wise it's close enough to original that if you exclude the last 2hrs and a couple of 15min blocks it's the same story just fleshed out a bit, the more I play the more I have fewer issues with the watchmen/whispers, the more I think about it they are there to allow for amazing DLC that doesn't effect main story continuity
 
40hrs in and I've yet to experience anything that is just pandering to the masses via market research.

That being said there are plenty things I have issue with like the lack of player character ai adjustment, the weapon upgrades having little to no drawbacks for building them poorly, some optimisation issues on older hardware.

Story wise it's close enough to original that if you exclude the last 2hrs and a couple of 15min blocks it's the same story just fleshed out a bit, the more I play the more I have fewer issues with the watchmen/whispers, the more I think about it they are there to allow for amazing DLC that doesn't effect main story continuity
they already split into 3 parts to make it 3x more expensive than the original, if they release paid dlc for each one, the whole game will cost more than the ps4 it is played on... ridiculous

i'm waiting for a price drop
 
they already split into 3 parts to make it 3x more expensive
Genuinely curious where that information is coming from? I don't recall seeing anything from SE that says how many parts it will be, but everyone keeps repeating that it will be in 3 parts. Is there something official from SE where they've said this? Would be good to know how many of these we'll be buying (or not).
 
Genuinely curious where that information is coming from? I don't recall seeing anything from SE that says how many parts it will be, but everyone keeps repeating that it will be in 3 parts. Is there something official from SE where they've said this? Would be good to know how many of these we'll be buying (or not).
its not official, its just assumed to be 3 just because its obviously going to be more than 2, and there will be outrage if they do 4 or more
 
YES. I don't know why they picked a random YouTuber to do professional voice acting for what would turn out (despite anyone's personal feelings) to be an extremely popular game, and for such an iconic character at that. Something about her...just doesn't bring in the high quality "feels" I expected. Barret? On point.
I do want to point out that this is a little disingenuous.  She is still a professional actress, even though she does do a lot of Youtube stuff as well.  I wouldn't say that she is totally "random."

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4628145/
 
I don't really see the problem with the game being broken up into multiple pieces, as long as each piece is compelling and makes sense. 

What is wrong with having two FFVII games?  Or Three?  Or ten?  As long as each game is individually satisfying and you are getting your money's worth, I just don't see a problem.  The original one didn't cease to exist with the release of the remake.  In fact, I would not be surprised to see some resurgence of interest for the original with the remake having now been released.  Evidenced by the fact that I just downloaded Reunion R6 for a fresh run :)
 
FF7 is my all-time favorite game. I play the game through basically annually, so not as hardcore as some people around here, but my love for the game is great. I have played Dirge of Cerberus and watched Advent Children, and was disappointed by both. Over time, I have grown to hate all FF7 compilation material. I have a special dislike for the Kingdom Hearts appearances of Cloud, which I blame for the source of "emo Cloud", where he is mopey and edgy, which is a complete departure from the original.

You guys remember Sephiroth?

With my FF7 background out of the way, I went into FF7 remake with low expectations. I expected the game to follow the story beats of the original, but with a few new additions here and there. I knew it was likely going to be worse than the original, but as long as they didn't F up a few key moments, I would be fine.

Key moments from Midgar to not F up:


[list type=decimal]
[*]WallMarket Sequence
Really cements the lawlessness and shadiness of the lower-plate life. Everything needed to be dingy, dank, repugnant, slimy, etc.

Wallmarket music is replaced with carnival music that sounds more fitting for the gold saucer. Nothing is dingy or slimy at all, everything is very glam and fabulous. I consider this the first major f up.
[*]Death of avalanche members and sector 7 plate dropping
The death of all the avalanche members are not only heartbreaking, but also establish Shinra as a super power that Cloud and crew cannot take down with some losses along the way.

Since none of the characters die in the end and Wedge doesn't even die to begin with, I consider this the first major f up.
[*]Shinra HQ massacre by Sephiroth
Establishes not only that Sephiroth is evil, but an unstoppable force that utterly destroyed the world's super power when Cloud and crew could not. It was an awesome and horrifying mystery so be let out of the prison cell only to see everyone had been slaughtered. One of my favorite moments in the whole game, let alone the Midgar section. This is completely cut from the game so I consider it the third, final, and most egregious f up.
[/list]

You guys like Sephiroth, don't you?

Gameplay: Playing through the game was not bad, actually. The combat was worse than turn-based in my opinion, but good enough I still enjoyed it. The biggest fatal flaw, IMO, is the boss fights. As good of a spectacle as they are, the pacing is severely hampered by the in-combat cutscenes. Each boss has around 3-4 cutscenes that interrupt the flow of battle. Even worse, they put a hard cap on damage (you cannot drive a boss's health down past the 75% in a single attack, the game makes the cutscene play out first). Trying to get a boss's stagger meter up? Better do it before the arbitrary in-battle cutscene that resets it. Manage to get that stagger? Don't waste a big attack on it or you'll reach the health cap and waste it. You naturally want to save a limit break for when a boss staggers for massive damage, but the game goes out of its way to make sure that rarely happens or is borderline useless when you manage to pull it off.

Sephiroth is pretty cool.

New minor story additions: the new additions to the story were pretty good leading up to the end of the game. Visiting Jessie's family's house was nice, and would have made the Avalance group dying off all the more impactful.

Minigames: were fun and done pretty well, IMO.
Why do I keep mentioning Sephiroth?

Sidequests: complete garbage. Fetch quests and monster-slaying quests with no imagination, thought, or care put into them. Complete filler garbage.

Voice acting: for the main cast was really well done except Zack and Aerith, whose respective voices felt amateurish and out of place. Voice acting for NPCs and side characters ranged from mediocre to complete trash.

Well you like when I bring up Sephiroth, don't you?

Dialogue and writing: dialogue between main party members was actually pretty good and faithful to the original characters leading up to Shinra HQ. Writing was generally good because it followed the beats of the original story. That is until the end. One big complaint though, Sephiroth is shoved in your face and shows up all the time with no reason or justification, destroying any interest or mystique the original set up for him. Square Enix knows you love him, they don't know why though. But here is again! You like it don't you? You filthy little fanboy...

Ending of the game: Nomura unleashed. Double-dose injection of Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children out of left field into the end. Completely unjustified "EPIC!!!" set pieces and unimaginative plot twists. Alternate timelines, retconning every meaningful death, obliterating all storytelling techniques, etc. Watch any video analysis from the youtube channel Resonant Arc (I recommend the following:
and
and
) and watch in amazement and disbelief that all story-telling magic of the original is disregarded in the remake. All setups and payoffs are cut, and Nomura-isms are inserted.

In summary:

If you have no experience in the FF franchise and have yet to play any FF games, this game is a mediocre action and adventure that is as likely to make you a fan as it is to validate your current skepticism of Japanese-styled RPGs. 7/10

If you like the FF13 franchise and all the time-travel/alternate timeline bullshit, and you internally orgasm with every Kingdom Hearts plot twist and big heartless baddy, you will probably love this game. If you every wanted to play the Sephiroth fight scene from Advent Children, this game randomly has that too. Plus a copy of the fight scene from the end of the original. In space! 10/10

If, however, you are only a fan of the original because of the expert way it told its story, and the methods it used to set up characters and plot twists with payoffs that borderlined on magic, then stay away from this game. It is not a remake, it should have been labeled FF7 Nomura's Final Mix 432/83 Days in a Week 1.5 Edition. 5/10
 
but everyone keeps repeating that it will be in 3 parts. Is there something official from SE where they've said this?
There is no "official" word but 3 is a pretty fair guess.

Also, 60$ for a piece of entertainment that keeps you busy anywhere from 50 to 80 hours is pretty fair. I've paid more than that for 3h concerts that ended up being far less entertaining.

Besides there are discounts, price drops and the game will have resale value. If money is an issue, you could absolutely get most of it back.
 
I prefer a game that has quality - the original game is leaps and bounds ahead of this ... thing.  We shouldn't accept mediocrity at $60 a part.
How you can pass judgements saying that it's 'mediocre' without even playing it is still a bit beyond me.

This game has quality. Playing it was a great emotional roller-coaster for me. I laughed, I cried, I was excited, confused, sad and then happy. Easily worth $80 I spent on it. I'm almost 50 hours in and I'm still having loads of fun with it. If next parts are anywhere as close as good as this one, I will buy them without a blink in the eye.
 
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People running through it on easy are finishing it in 25hrs, there is a YouTube rip of the story content that clocks at 15hrs.

For every $10aud I spend I want a minimum of 1hr use or 1 required use(tools) on easy you get 10hrs gameplay and 15hrs of cinematic either way you look at it I've got my money's worth because I've enjoyed every minute and at 40hrs unfinished on normal which is around 15more hours then I got out of ff15 and about on par with my average ff7 playthrough, the whispers are growing on me as I previously stated

People are suggesting 3 games because midgar is about 1/3 of the text in game from memory
 
Story and gameplay aside, the game really shows the potential of Unreal Engine 4, and is a free open engine. I wonder what is the modding potential of this game if it comes out for PC when is complete, I guess 5 more years? being an open engine helps a lot with this. Would SE stop me with a cease and desist if I made a ff7classic mod on top of this? I would mod the first mission for fun/study and love for this game, with dialogs in text and all that.
 
I replayed the original in December. Midgar was about 1/10 of the time experience. Never really thought about how much text it took up compared to the original. My playthrough was a fairly standard 40 hour affair with minimal grinding.

After having a lot of time to digest the ending, and the overall gameplay experience that I viewed... I don't hate it in theory.


I dislike anything that adds timeline bullshit to something that didn't need it.


To me that is a lazy plot device unless done in a proper and compelling way. This was.... A lot of Nomuraisms. I am not a big fan of Kingdoms Heart, and the ending had those storytelling tropes written all over it. I could find a "what-if" and an alternate "retelling" quite compelling if it was done by a writer and director I trusted. Nomura is neither of those things. Worst of all to me is now  he has essentially lifted up the chains of the original's plot and severed them. I am a bit apprehensive of where the next parts are going with that in mind. He has free reign to turn this into another mess like the what is it... ten Kingdom Hearts games? And I dont think the the enigmatic spectres of fate will ever stop bugging me.

The ending and spectres aside, I don't have too many gripes with the minor changes made to the plot. In fact that's how I would want a remake to be done tastefully. Characters get a lot of expansion, and the NPC hubs like the sector 7 slums and especially Wallmarket look amazing (if not quite as charming as the handdrawn backgrounds of the original, but certainly far more gritty). The place looked legitimately lived in. A lot of work, effort, and polish went into the visual presentation of this game. The graphics in Square games have never really been a sticking point for me (at least not in the past 5 to 10 years).

My main gripe is the zones seem too big in some places. The sewers in particular. I can ignore shitty side quests, I expected those - but the game spends a lot of mandatory time in these expanded zones that add little to the narrative. Maybe it is more fun to play through, but even the friend I was watching stream it said some of it was needless and exhausting and he just wanted to get to the next story beat. The original game had stellar pacing, and I am sad to see that is something that is lost.

Overall I am not too terribly torn up that they are splitting it into parts - I just want each part to be compelling and content rich. Nomura has a penchant for padding, buildup, minigames, and fairly lack luster and long winded payoffs with Kingdom Hearts in mind. So as I said before, I am tremendously apprehensive where the next parts would even go. Nomura isn't really known for respecting a player's time or intelligence.

As it stands from a viewer's perspective the first part of this remake looks like the first 90% of the game would be enjoyable for me - especially reliving that childhood nostalgia but expanded upon and deepend in parts. It's the ending and needlessly large sub-areas that I can't really agree with. I'd say from just viewing my friend stream it the game.... The game would be a 7 out of 10 for me up to Jenova in the Shinra building. Everything to do with Jenova and after is a much lower score from my own metric. So that first 90% the game while not the best score still looks perfectly playable to me and quite good. I just can't really get behind the ending and call it respectful or tasteful to the original


I feel like Nomura could have done this what-if scneario without involving a time traveling Sephiroth or as my friend puts it "anime-bullshit" that cheapens the narrative buildup to that point.


I just want them to make a decent FF16, which I don't think will ever happen for me. I kind of want a break from gaming remakes at the moment.

So for me it's really mixed! To those of you who liked it, I am really happy for you! Legitimately. I kind of wish I could be in your camp.
 
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40hrs in and I've yet to experience anything that is just pandering to the masses via market research.
The fact that they changed it into an action game is alone "pandering to the masses".
The storytelling is, for the most part, also easy on the masses. One could go in depth here, but let's just say, it's nothing wrong enjoying a main-stream story like this. The original also had a lot of "pandering to the masses" going on. No need to pretend it didn't.
Design choice, story beats, gameplay, is all there mainly due to marked research. Most, if not all, AAA companies does this. It's no big secret. The only thing I think is not heavily influenced by is all this kingdom hearts stuff. But kingdom hearts is a commercial success so... "Hey, Nomura those KH stuff you made were pretty successful, can you put some of that stuff in?"

There are risks involved though. I would say the most risky move SE has done here is splitting it up into multiple games. It can backfire hard. Depending on sales they may decide to end it early and pretend that it was the plan all along. To be honest, I don't think they have a complete story ready yet. But at least they haven't promised X amount of games like Disney promised ep 7-9, which I don't think need to explained how hard failed as a story.

If they continue to being somewhat "faithful" to the original I'm guessing the next games will do good overall. But if they decide to go all in KH crazy... welp, not easy to say what'll happen. SE will probably look at feedback to decide how much to tone down the KH stuff in the naxt game.
 
I hardly think making it an active rpg is base on market research.... As the majority of action RPGs are fairly niche groups that enjoy them, as are tactical action games so why would they put the effort into creating a new subgenre
 
I kind of get the impression Square thinks turned based RPGs are out. That part of it is missguided to me, because just look at how successful things like the Persona series is? I think it is entirely Square wanting to "modernize". Which is fine, there is nothing wrong with them making it an action rpg in theory.

It's just the game Nomura wanted to make first as a consultant and now as a creative director after the firing of CyberConnect2. Though none of that has enough documentation to make real claims about. It's just what's been working for him until now, why change? I think its the mentality itself that is missguided. However, they are ultimately going to make the games they want to play - as a business and as creative professionals. As long as the game is fun, has content that is mostly satisfying, and I all around like I will be okay.

Sadly, the ending of this particular game fell really short for me. It is the one thing I couldn't overlook or forgive to have an all around "okay fun experience." Endings are paramount, and different people are going to take it differently. It didn't land with me, but given how popular Kingdom Hearts is it will probably land well with some people - especially those who never played the original.
 
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