The babies who are murdered to order

[L. Spiro]

The Report

Now this is probably an all-time low in human’s existence, and amazingly it isn’t even America or Nazis this time.
I had always supported stem-cell research and when the babies are already dead from the start I had never seen the “ethical” fallacies that America had seen when it banned their research.
I myself have in fact planned to use stem cells in the future for a certain unexplainable (here) purpose, however, of course, I would have been expecting my stem cells to have been from genuinely stillborn babies.

I thought that harvesting healthy babies would be too ethically low for anyone, and that stem-cell research would be unlikely to cause such a travesty, at least on a large scale.
Technically this still isn’t a large scale; just a few hospitals in one country (that we know), but it is already high enough to be inexcusable.
What if you were that kid who was just born?
You look up at the lights and think, “Finally, time to learn everything this world has to offer.”
Then they carry you off and you say, “Hey, what are you doing?  I just got here!  Where is my chance to start a family and have kids of my own!?”

Not to mention their mothers who wait for 9 months just to have this happen in the end.

I don’t know really where to rate this, but I don’t care to get into a discussion comparing this to all the other all-time lows in humanity’s history.
Taking healthy babies and just killing them for their brains then lying to their mothers is simply low.


L. Spiro

 

[ChaosControl]

What if you were that kid who was just born?
You look up at the lights and think, “Finally, time to learn everything this world has to offer.”
Then they carry you off and you say, “Hey, what are you doing?  I just got here!  Where is my chance to start a family and have kids of my own!?”

Wow, I didnt'think there where babies who could think on that leven instead of just living instinctively.
I don't really care about babies being murderen so we can (possibly) help older people who have a concious and are developed enough to think.

I'd don't see the problem, they don't even know they are alive or dead, they pretty much know nothing anyway =/

 

[RPGillespie]

I don't really care about babies being murdered...
I don't see the problem, they don't even know they are alive or dead, they pretty much know nothing anyway...

Wow, every time I think "chaoscontrol surely can't stoop lower than his last comment" you somehow manage. The world is the way it is because of imbeciles like you. How do you become so desensitized that you regard real-life (not the violent video games you play) murderings of infants, who are the most innocent and pure humans in the world at about the same level as taking out the trash?? What's the purpose of doing research to save humans, when you are murdering humans to progress the research? That's like robbing Peter to pay Paul, except Paul never gets repayed (or not anytime soon at least), and "robbing" is actually "murdering babies" (okay, that was a really bad analogy I know  ).

How do you even know whether or not a baby can "think" in infancy? You can't remember when you were a baby, but that doesn't mean that you didn't have conscious thought. Ah, what the world has come to. Perhaps you were just stoned on your drugs and didn't actually think about what you were writing...

 

[ChaosControl]

Well, I was stoned while typing but now, being all sober, I still think the same. You might think of it as dumb or whatever but you believe in Jesus too right? Fuck you, babies couldn't care less if they died or didn't.

Get me one baby who cares.

 

[Jari]

I'm not defending chaoscontrol's position about this in general, but he does have a point about cognitive powers of newborns.

How do you even know whether or not a baby can "think" in infancy? You can't remember when you were a baby, but that doesn't mean that you didn't have conscious thought. Ah, what the world has come to. Perhaps you were just stoned on your drugs and didn't actually think about what you were writing...

But you can study other children. Of course, nobody can know with absolute certainty, but it would seem somewhat surprising that a creature whose greatest accomplishment is to "Brings any object grasped to mouth" (I'll provide links in a moment) at 4 months, could be making plans of any kind as newborn.

Anyway, some reading about the subject:

Average brain weights (BW) at different times of development:

Code: [Select]

AGE          BW - Male (grams)   BW - Female (grams)--------     -----------------   -----------------Newborn           380                  360     1 year            970                  9402 years         1,120                1,0403 years         1,270                1,09010-12 years     1,440                1,26019-21 years     1,450                1,31056-60 years     1,370                1,25081-85 years     1,310                1,170

Postnatal Brain Development

Between six months and a year, metabolic activity is notably in the frontal cortex which corresponds to the development of higher cortical functions such as interactions with the immediate environment, stranger anxiety, etc.

And

Developmental research has determined that there are "developmental windows of opportunity" for different brain functions. As a guide, the windows of opportunity for emotional development is 0-2 years, mathematics and logic is around 0-4 years, language is 0-10 years, and music from about 3-10 years.

Sensory-Motor Integration and Learning

From 3-7 Years of Age

This period of the cycle of brain development focuses more on hemispheric elaboration, allowing Gestalt (whole picture concepts) to develop. Cognition, imagery, movement, rhythm, emotions, intuition, speech and integrative thought are established

And

From 8-12 Years of Age

This period of the cycle of brain development signals logic elaboration. Such things as detail and linear processing, refinement of cognitive processes, and the elements of language, reading and writing skills development, the refinement and development of technique and linear math processing.

 

[L. Spiro]

Okay, I didn’t think we’d be getting into cognitive powers of infants over my expression simply intended to make a point (a point, by the way, which the babies need to have made for them since they can’t make it themselves).

The point wasn’t to imply that the babies actually are thinking that, but simply to demonstrate how unfair the situation is, or to give of an example of what they might think, if they could.   :|


But okay, if you can’t empathize with the babies, try looking at it from the other important perspective: the mothers’ (and possibly fathers’).
Did she spend nine months in discomfort, buying clothes, toys, and other related utilities, just to have it taken away and have its brain scooped out?
Is that really why she went to the hospital?

I don’t know about you, but my wife is a precious gift.
Her sunny days are my sunny days.
Her clouds are my clouds.
Her smile makes me smile, and her tears sadden me.
Frankly I’m pretty sure that if we had a baby and it ended up this way, she would be pretty destroyed, and what destroys her destroys me.

How do you help her through this emotionally?


L. Spiro

 

[Kashmir]

For those who dont have younger siblings ill give you some idea as to what there thinking, its pretty obvious from there expressions.

Its "AHHH F_CK IM IN PAIN..."

Babies are loaded with just about every bad disease so they can get a imunity to them at a time in their life where they wont remember the pain of it latter in life. The first two years of taking care of a baby is spent cleaning up diareer and vommit and regular visits to a doctor. Once there eyes open and they start to be able to crawl they will chase after anything and everything, their inquisitiveness and curiousity knows know bounds.

By the time they are 2 they can clearly speak and think on their own. 2 years isnt a very long time and it all goes by all too quickly.

But thats all beside the f_cking point, how well babies can think or not has got absolutely nothing to do with anything. The child was stolen from its parents and denied any chance of life for a F_CKING PROFIT, you cannot buy life, you cannot buy the chance to live, You get one chance to live and one chance only. Nobody
else should be aloud to make the decision for you.

Not only that but the technology is currently unproven and undeveloped... its just has potential, just like how the child has the potential to grow up and solve the problem himself.

@chaos control
So what, should the rich just get whatever the f_ck they want in life now? should they? Should they just be excussed from murder altogether just becuase they make more money... f_ck no. How about we just start havesting kidneys from healthy people while their under the knife, so we can have two unhealty people instead of one... and also so i can fatten my wallet. Or how about i kill you and steal your f_cking heart next time you visit the doctor to replace my unhealthy one.

I don't really care about babies being murderen so we can (possibly) help older people who have a concious and are developed enough to think

So who are these others concious and developed enough to think, huh? clearly not you thats for sure.

Oh yeah and the best point of all.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006/12/australia-ends-ban-on-stem-cell.php
SO WHY THE F_CK DO WE NEED TO HAREST PERFECTLY NORMAL AND HEALTHY BABIES YOU F_CKING DIPSH_T OF A WANKER.

 

[ChaosControl]

If I'd have cancer or something, I'd kill a hundred babies to live, fuck babies, I'm more attached to myself then a fucking vomiting baby.

You can cry in a corner and be sad and go be a superhero who saves babies, till you're in the hospital at the end of your life and doc comes up to you: "I'm sorry sir, but we COULD save you with a fresh new healthy baby we can cut open but you and others decided to rather die in a moment like this, have fun"

Then I'd laugh in your face and then... then you die!
And I won't cus I'll be illegally be cutting babies open for treatment.

 

[Kashmir]

If I'd have cancer or something, I'd kill a hundred babies to live, f*** babies, I'm more attached to myself then a f***ing vomiting baby.

You can cry in a corner and be sad and go be a superhero who saves babies, till you're in the hospital at the end of your life and doc comes up to you: "I'm sorry sir, but we COULD save you with a fresh new healthy baby we can cut open but you and others decided to rather die in a moment like this, have fun"

Then I'd laugh in your face and then... then you die!
And I won't cus I'll be illegally be cutting babies open for treatment.

You seriously need to get off the meth & see a psychiatrist.

Unlike you i have no fear of dying and quite frankly look forward to it, hell i couldn't care less if i died painfully in a car crash tommorrow, ive lived mylife and enjoyed it and when i go there will be plenty more people like me to take my place. You will die one day, whether it be by car accident or old age and whats left when you die alone & miserable, huh? nothing but a dead featal corpse and a jar full of pot... no ones even going to care because you couldnt give a sh_t about anyone else other than your greedy self.

I hope you like being alone & miserable because thats all your ever going to be.

 

[ChaosControl]

Lol, emo alert.
Please, just kill yourself then if you look forward to it, please go cut your wrist or something...

If only you could've done it when you were born, we could at least use you for stamcell research then.

 

[L. Spiro]

If I'd have cancer or something, I'd kill a hundred babies to live, f*** babies, I'm more attached to myself then a f***ing vomiting baby.

You can cry in a corner and be sad and go be a superhero who saves babies, till you're in the hospital at the end of your life and doc comes up to you: "I'm sorry sir, but we COULD save you with a fresh new healthy baby we can cut open but you and others decided to rather die in a moment like this, have fun"

Then I'd laugh in your face and then... then you die!
And I won't cus I'll be illegally be cutting babies open for treatment.

Is this satire?  Desire for attention?

Then I'd laugh in your face and then... then you die!
And I won't cus I'll be illegally be cutting babies open for treatment.

In case you’re getting the illusion (or delusion) that this can be used to prolong your life substantially, forget about it.
Technology is available to transplant brains into new bodies, but the bodies can not currently be fully connected in a way that allows motor skills, so you’d be paralyzed from the neck down.  Research with stems cells will have these motionless bodies moving within a few years, allowing beta testing for actual full body transplants.

Imagine that!  A totally new body!
Now you can live for eternity, right?

Wrong.
Cell division continues in your brain, so the result is simply that you have a young body…with Alzheimer’s disease.
They can inject stem cells into the brain but only to a certain extent, and overshooting this extent is literally the same as simply killing you and using your shell of a brain for a new human who will retain some of your recent memories but effectively be a new human with all-new cells of his own.

If you’re really planning on laughing at anyone on his or her deathbed, you’d do better by off getting off drugs and out of car accidents and eating/living right.


L. Spiro

 

[ChaosControl]

Desire for attention?

Yeah, I'd go looking for attention over the internet.. right.
I'm not like you, "Omiegosh, my boss needs me but I want other job but I R most impotant for company so can't go please tell me what to do so I can get attention becouse i r t3h most important"

Dude.. just don't go there, not you, you are the most pathetic whining person on this entire forum.

And wtf is up with the drugs? I feel like a heroine addict on this forum lol, all I do is smoke weed which isn't that more harmfull then smoking (well maybe the propoganda of the USA made you think so by saying things like "If you smoke weed you become a terrorist!!").

 

[RPGillespie]

...which isn't that more harmful then smoking...

*notes change of avatar/name capitalization*

Aside from the fact that smoking weed is, in fact, smoking, you're saying that marijuana is slightly more harmful then tobacco smoking. Let's see, tobacco, scratch that, any partially burning substance contains polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons including a metabolite of benzopyrene, which is an extremely carcinogenic substance because when undergoing oxidation, produces epoxide which permanently binds and distorts DNA. Additionally, the carbon monoxide produced by inefficient combustion of organic molecules
permanently binds to your blood's hemoglobin which reduces your efficiency of oxygen consumption. Additionally,

Tobacco smoke also contains various carcinogens other than polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons, such as traces of radioactive elements. For example, smoke from tobacco grown with phosphate fertilizers contains polonium 210

So saying the weed "isn't much worse" than tobbaco is a pretty idiotic statement considering that tobacco is one of the most deadly substances available to the general public.

I think Kashmir is correct--you seriously need to see a psychiatrist. You are so selfish that you would kill babies (which might I add, you were once) to save yourself from your own foolish (for lack of a better word) choices.

 

[Alhexx]

Somehow, the topic reminds me of Prey.

<flame>

If I'd have 3 skull fractions (I've had 2, got them from a car accident in which I nearly died when I was 13) I wouldnt care...

I'd don't see the problem, they don't even know they are alive or dead, they pretty much know nothing anyway

Hm, now it seems to make sense:
Maybe they have also "homogenised" your brain in the hospital after your car accident?
</flame>

<opinion>
Well, I'm not sure in what condition your kidneys are, but let's assume that yours are okay.
Image when you go out some night and get kidnapped and got one of your kidneys removed... (Note: This really happened to a friend of my dad a few years ago)
Someone who has cancer would be (probably) saved. But you may die.

Now imagine, someone who has much money is blind. Since you are able to read the posts on this forum, yours seem to be okay.
You get kidnapped and got your eyes cut out.
Someone who was blind is now able to see. But now you are blind.


The thing that you mark as "okay" is also called Parasitism. It is not like healing someone - it's like taking away from one person and giving it to another person.
Of course, it's okay for you as long as you are the one who receives, and not the one who gets slaughtered.

Wow, I didnt'think there where babies who could think on that leven instead of just living instinctively.
I don't really care about babies being murderen so we can (possibly) help older people who have a concious and are developed enough to think.

I'd don't see the problem, they don't even know they are alive or dead, they pretty much know nothing anyway

Well, you're right. The baby does not care about if it was killed or not.

But there's one important point you forget: The parents. They do care about whether the baby lives or not.

If I was a father whose baby was slaughtered like this, believe me, you don't want to imagine what I would do to the hospital staff.
And to the rest of the mafia who is responsible for this.
(...hm, if you take all the mafia members, who are responsible for that, and kill and cook them - that would be enough meat to save hundrets of thousands of starving children in Africa...)

I'd don't see the problem, they don't even know they are alive or dead, they pretty much know nothing anyway =/

Hm, your life theory seems to be "Kill yourself and you won't have any problems anymore!".
That's a nice idea, but it's the wrong way.
</opinon>

<moderator>
I suggest that everyone calms down a bit. I know that this topic is a quite ugly one, and I know that (almost) everyone (including me) disagrees with ChaosControl's option, but:

Everyone interprets things differently than others depending on their culture, life experiences, and many other factors. If somebody posts a message that could be considered insulting or offensive to you, don't immediately flame them.

So, stop the flaming.
</moderator>

<remark>
This seems to be the longest post I have ever written here.
</remark>

 - Alhexx

 

[L. Spiro]

Desire for attention?

Yeah, I'd go looking for attention over the internet.. right.
I'm not like you, "Omiegosh, my boss needs me but I want other job but I R most impotant for company so can't go please tell me what to do so I can get attention becouse i r t3h most important"

Dude.. just don't go there, not you, you are the most pathetic whining person on this entire forum.

And wtf is up with the drugs? I feel like a heroine addict on this forum lol, all I do is smoke weed which isn't that more harmfull then smoking (well maybe the propoganda of the USA made you think so by saying things like "If you smoke weed you become a terrorist!!").

Wow, all this after I didn’t flame you.
Why don’t you take a moment and go back to all the posts between us and see how I have never talked trash or talked down on you for whatever reasons all the others have.
As I’ve said many times, I only act like an ass to Jari. 
Even in my last post, I simply stated facts without accusations.

If you’re really planning on laughing at anyone on his or her deathbed, you’d do better by off getting off drugs and out of car accidents and eating/living right.

This is actually real advice, and could be said about anyone who does anything as unhealthy as smoking anything.


I don’t need to justify myself to you, but I’ll feel fine about taking a few moments to clarify what was said in that other topic, since you went there first. :roll:
I said (both to you and to my boss) that I could be replaced and things would be okay.
He said it wouldn’t work that way because we are in Thailand, not Silicon Valley.
Even when the situation is not on a slippery slope he has had problems recruiting.
Heh, I never said anything about my own skill level.  I could very well suck, but it wouldn’t change anything in my post.
A little reading comprehension is all that is needed to tell that the only two real factors are my boss’s extreme viewpoint and the skills of the natives, which no one can deny do not meet those of the skills in Silicon Valley.
For me to feel “bad-ass” or think I’m special would be like feeling good about beating a one-legged man in a 100-meter dash—regardless of whatever distorted meaning you gathered from that topic, I keep enough perspective to know I’m not especially fast at the 100-meter dash just because my current opponents are especially slow. :wink:


L. Spiro

 

[ChaosControl]

@ RPGillespie: Smoking is whatever I want, this has nothing to do with the topic, weed isn't harmfull on its own, you need tabacco to smoke it though which will eventually only lead to the same things as a normal smoking person would.

<opinion>
Well, I'm not sure in what condition your kidneys are, but let's assume that yours are okay.
Image when you go out some night and get kidnapped and got one of your kidneys removed... (Note: This really happened to a friend of my dad a few years ago)
Someone who has cancer would be (probably) saved. But you may die.

Now imagine, someone who has much money is blind. Since you are able to read the posts on this forum, yours seem to be okay.
You get kidnapped and got your eyes cut out.
Someone who was blind is now able to see. But now you are blind.

Ok, but you are forgetting that babies for stamcell research are MADE for this purpose alone. They are litteraly developed (like qgears, only that isn't as lively) for it. You are correct on this matter but if it were a baby which was made for the purpose of getting his eyes removed for another blind person, I couldn't care less. Dad couldnt care less because dad only wacked off and squirted in a bottle.

@L.Spiro
Sorry then, I think I misunderstood.

 

[L. Spiro]

Ok, but you are forgetting that babies for stamcell research are MADE for this purpose alone.

I am not sure you read the article.
The babies were not made for stem-cell research.
They are stolen from their parents and secretly used for stem-cell research.
The arents are told the babies died of heart failure (or any mixture of stories) and that’s that, their babies lost.


L. Spiro

 

[ChaosControl]

Yeah but I was talking about stamcell research in General, It's usually legal (like australia) and then the babies arent snatched away. I do not agree with the mob in the article or any of those ways, but I am FOR stamcell research.

 

[Alhexx]

Yeah but I was talking about stamcell research in General, It's usually legal (like australia) and then the babies arent snatched away. I do not agree with the mob in the article or any of those ways, but I am FOR stamcell research.

Now this is something completely different.

We were discussing the special illegal case that (most probably) happened in that hospital.
There's a difference between "babys who are made for this purpose" and stealing someone's children.

 - Alhexx

 

[Izban]

I was under the impression that they wouldn't be using regular healthy babies, but rather damaged embryo's that where well going to die anyway or ones with a incredibly low chance of survival but that just the impression i got of the news casts about the lifting of the ban, and personally i don't see anything wrong with that. as for the killing of babies so the old may live, gee old people are getting harder and harder to keep alive, i think i would rather let the old die then kill a baby for them, cause that sounds a little like ritual sacrifice which i thought we as a culture had outgrown due to its barbaric nature.

/end rant