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dkma841
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Kaldarasha
Guest
Ditto. But it's actually mechanic with which they have reached there goal, which is pervert.
A lot more people has died after 9/11 and a lot more will die because of it. These day has given terror a face. A face to fear. And what can you do with fear?
Any idea, who has said this?
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EQ2Alyza
Guest
Please name me any country that has ~3000 deaths due to international terrorism on a day by day basis.....
America has accounted for almost 8% of the world's fatalities due to international terrorism for the past 50 years. We're a target and have every reason to treat it with caution.
Not everyone is affected by these incidents, but all it takes is one family member or friend to be involved and it becomes a big deal to everyone they know.
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dkma841
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Cupcake
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I know I'm late here; and I already said this, but I just need to reiterate. It's not so crazy, I saw it myself. Not via video, but by going "holy shit a plane just flew into that building, what the fuck.... holy shit it happened again, the fuck is going on" Planes hit the tower, I can assure you of this. If you don't believe me, at least believe Covarr who can vouch for me that I saw it.
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ChaosControl
Guest
Maybe that's their own fault? I mean, I live in Europe, we got terrorism, yes. But in my country hardly any. Let alone enough to reach a decent amount of families, and we also have a way smaller population. That's because (I think) our country has a neutral attitude towards certain stuff that's not their business (like supposedly WMD's). If our army is on foreign affairs, it's always a help mission, never a fight mission. Even if UN requires us to "fight" alongside some countries like the USA, we're only cleaning up the mess (putting bandages on the survivors of both camps).
If they really were eager to help then where are the armies in North Korea and a lot of African countries? Oh wait, there's no oil there, only in Syria (ok ok that's Africa, but its a really tiny part).
But all that is not taking into accounts half of the "terrorism" over there is probably staged by the government itself. A thought I share with a decent amount of people (even some Americans) is that the USA is hardly a first world country. It's more like the screamy kid from the waaay too rich parents which allow everything and everyone had to sit by and just nod occasional so they don't take in a fit. No offense on any of you here of course, only the American government in general. I mean, I still like Hollywood movies and cheeseburgers and stuff.
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Shard
Guest
It's not even the government as a whole, it's the individuals who control it (congressman, senators, presidents, chiefs of staff, etc). The actual people who work in government organizations are just doing their jobs; their only other choice is to be fired or arrested.
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LeonhartGR
Guest
Gotham all over!
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Goth
Guest
meesbaker's posts are really embarassing to read. But I understand him, I was like him for the R=A theory in FF8. LOL, totally different topic but the mechanism behind is the same: you never thought about it, then someone on the internet tells you about it using the right words and attitude, and you just fall in that trap because of some weird psychological reasons.
BTW, this is a video of 43 different angles of the 2nd hit:
BTW, this is a video of 43 different angles of the 2nd hit:
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LeonhartGR
Guest
Fear is what's left in the end out of it... either used by the government nor terrorists! I don't believe the government is completely innocent as far as this particular attack is concerned though. You can't just enter a country and hit 2 huge commercial buildings in such way. Also in no way you can deal such topics with a sense of humor... I'm feeling deeply mournful about this tragedy!
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meesbaker
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Actually I said I'd leave it as it is but there is little more to say:
@Leonhart: Sorry if I talked to easily about this. Some video fakery is just so bad that I must laugh but I do not think the incident is actually any funny. Sorry, i'll try with some more respect.
@Goth: I can understand if you find my posts stupid but do not think I made no research. I was studying many videos and articles from the other side, people like you who try to debunk any kind of weird conspiracy theory and the moment somebody shows me a photograph or a video where one can clearly identify a boeing passenger flight I'm gonna buy their story. Without a doubt.
Unfortunately this is not possible. I know every single video about the impact, none of the ones included in your 43angles compilation was new to me and none proves the presence of a boeing plane. Just some terrible resolution private videos and the only ones with a little quality show some entirely black monstrum without any kind of similarity to a boeing. If you look at the footage where the plane flies by the crane and you stop right before it hits you get a quite good and large image of the plane. Never ever is this a passenger flight. Not even form and shape match it, plus it is completely black without any windows, logos etc. Like all those videos are. It is either edited or at least no usual airliner.
The only footage in this video that looks authentic is the one I posted myself earlier and that is the nbc newscast from chopper 4. This one also does not show a plane anywhere. That small thing approaching the towers is much too small and also does not have any shape like a plane. On your compilation you can blame the resolution but this video exists in much better quality on the net. Search it, view it and you see everything but no plane. This thing is at best about 30-40 feet in size.
@Leonhart: Sorry if I talked to easily about this. Some video fakery is just so bad that I must laugh but I do not think the incident is actually any funny. Sorry, i'll try with some more respect.
@Goth: I can understand if you find my posts stupid but do not think I made no research. I was studying many videos and articles from the other side, people like you who try to debunk any kind of weird conspiracy theory and the moment somebody shows me a photograph or a video where one can clearly identify a boeing passenger flight I'm gonna buy their story. Without a doubt.
Unfortunately this is not possible. I know every single video about the impact, none of the ones included in your 43angles compilation was new to me and none proves the presence of a boeing plane. Just some terrible resolution private videos and the only ones with a little quality show some entirely black monstrum without any kind of similarity to a boeing. If you look at the footage where the plane flies by the crane and you stop right before it hits you get a quite good and large image of the plane. Never ever is this a passenger flight. Not even form and shape match it, plus it is completely black without any windows, logos etc. Like all those videos are. It is either edited or at least no usual airliner.
The only footage in this video that looks authentic is the one I posted myself earlier and that is the nbc newscast from chopper 4. This one also does not show a plane anywhere. That small thing approaching the towers is much too small and also does not have any shape like a plane. On your compilation you can blame the resolution but this video exists in much better quality on the net. Search it, view it and you see everything but no plane. This thing is at best about 30-40 feet in size.
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JeMaCheHi
Guest
As Mark Twain said in a chance: "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.". There's a lot of evidence that the buildings could not be demolished with just an impact, and less at that height. It's also imposible that the core melted as a lot of engineers have informed, it was designed to support brutal temps.
Also, you guys should see the collapse moment, and see how they fell, in such a controlled way. The most plausible theory is that they where demolished from the inside and, as meesbaker says, there's a chance that those planes never existed. Some researches state that they were holograms from how they impacted. Also, there is a moment you can see a suspicious "flash", like an explosion. And this is not the first nor the last time the government sacrifices his own people for an obscure and selfish cause. Look at Irak, Syria, Lybia, Afghanistan... and well... the whole world.
I do not intend to offend anyone, but this is my opinion after many sleepless nights reading and researching on the subject
Also, you guys should see the collapse moment, and see how they fell, in such a controlled way. The most plausible theory is that they where demolished from the inside and, as meesbaker says, there's a chance that those planes never existed. Some researches state that they were holograms from how they impacted. Also, there is a moment you can see a suspicious "flash", like an explosion. And this is not the first nor the last time the government sacrifices his own people for an obscure and selfish cause. Look at Irak, Syria, Lybia, Afghanistan... and well... the whole world.
I do not intend to offend anyone, but this is my opinion after many sleepless nights reading and researching on the subject
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Shard
Guest
Well, meesbaker can say anything he wants, but he's wrong, and there are 2 pages of people explaining why he's wrong. There is a 0% chance the planes weren't there. If there were no planes, you have the following problems:
1) 50+ videos (maybe 30 if you take away the views from too far away where the object is 2 pixels wide) show the same "plane" hitting the same spot on the same flight path. The chance that 30 videos from individual citizens, weather cameras, and news choppers are all faked is exactly zero, especially considering many of them were broadcast within minutes of the event (and some live).
2) No other manmade object can fly like that without leaving a trail, so it's clearly not a ballistic object or a guided missile. It's too fast to be a helicopter. You'd have to prove that the government (or whomever) has an device that can fly without visible exhaust in that path and cause that initial explosion.
3) Three planes (one of which crashed in the middle of nowhere) with registered humans on them disappeared that day. One crash was found, and two were recorded as hitting the twin towers. You'd have to explain the disappearance of a few hundred people.
As you said, it's really easy to fool people. Show meesbaker a clip that looks slightly suspicious TO HIM (but apparently not to anybody else) and he suddenly blinds himself to ALL of the other evidence.
As I've said before: There are unknowns, and there is government conspiratorial knowledge/activity involved, but whether or not a plane was there is not at all debatable. A plane hit the building (both of them). If you think otherwise, you are ignoring literally all of the evidence. If you want to know the truth, ignoring all the evidence is not the correct pathway to take.
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JeMaCheHi
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I've misspoken again... :-\ What I meant about planes not being real is just a theory, an hypothesis. We have no way to know the truth for now. As I stated before, they could be holograms. Or they could be the real ones. But what's for sure and that's what I meant in my previous post, is that the towers didn't collapsed because of a plane impact, just because it's physically impossible. Look for the building technical drawings and the materials' specs and you'll notice it. It was a clearly autoattack to legitimate the invasion, because if they can't find a pretext, the create it, and they have no limits. It happened that day in New York, it happened in 1963 in dallas, and it happened in a wide variety of chances (I do not want to extend myself to WWII and the post years...).
BTW, another flight, with real people too, has faded away from earth too. A certain flight from Malaysia. And, from what I know, anyone found anything at all from it.
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Shard
Guest
"Disappeared" is the wrong word to use for the 9/11 flights. Thousands of people saw those planes as they crashed, and/or the debris in the case of the one that went down in Pennsylvania.
The Malaysia flight is different. It probably landed in the ocean, where nobody could have seen it. Oceans are very hard to search.
You're totally right in that the collapses were set up. That's what people should have been investigating (unfortunately, you can't anymore, because Juliani is a criminal and destroyed/removed all the evidence before the 9/11 Commission could get to most of it). The only thing left to figure out is who was responsible.
The Malaysia flight is different. It probably landed in the ocean, where nobody could have seen it. Oceans are very hard to search.
You're totally right in that the collapses were set up. That's what people should have been investigating (unfortunately, you can't anymore, because Juliani is a criminal and destroyed/removed all the evidence before the 9/11 Commission could get to most of it). The only thing left to figure out is who was responsible.
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meesbaker
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@Shard
I really wonder what you are thinking!?
Spending a page explaining that the government lies about 9/11 which I spend little time talking about on this topic as you and others did the job explaining that the detonation was surely not just heated fuels, we even discussed the motives, and still you post dramatic nonsense like “terrorists won that day“ -.-
Realizing the government is miles away from telling you what happened how can you still be so blind to be believing them? Military reasons, political reasons, financial reasons THAT is 9/11, nothing more. Oil, NSA, TSA, Patriot Act, all of this crap. Even the most weird conspiracy theory no matter how stupid has more proof and sense than the ridiculous hoax the govs were spreading. And you still believe terrorists are to blame, do you still not get the reasons for 9/11? And how much the administration, in a perverted way, actually benefitted from the events?
And one more thing on the planes: The problems you mention do not exist at all. The newscast footages that were brought live is what I kept mentioning in every single post I made and kept telling you to investigate and comment on which of course you never did hoping to lie about them once I'm out. All you did was pathetically defending the Hazarkhani video which is surely the worst video editing in history.
I think I directed you to nbc chopper 4 about 300 times without any success and still you believe you know what an argument is.
The only interesting footage of those “30 proves“(which is a compilation video of how NOT to fake records) is the newscast footages as faking 30 or 400 low res strawberries videos is a work of an hour. And those live videos unlike you say do not show planes. Fox chopper has the alleged “plane's“ nose flying out of the building, nbc chopper shows an object that can hardly be recognized and if it is not edited, is still considerably smaller than an airliner and the disparities in contrast, lighting and sharpness between the plane layer and the actual video on the cnn Hazarkhani footage or the naudet video of the first impact is most laughable.
Also saying that the trajectory path of the “planes“ on all those videos of wtc2 impact from different angles were properly synchronized is a pure lie that shows a lack of research. Sticking only to nbc for instance, one must ask why the evening news report that was also spread in other countries(I was never able to see the actual live footage in my country on 9/11 ) is so bad compared to the live footage. It is contained in the 43 angles video posted on the previous page and shows the buildings from the exact same angle and position as the live cast. Except the whole background is removed to make it seem different, instead of the hudson river etc. there is blue nonsense and some terribly rendered black jet approaching the towers on a different path than the small moving object that can be seen during the live broadcast.
Why would you do this? Chosing a bad quality shot that strangely has no surrounding whatsoever and a n incoherent plane path instead of the good quality live shot which is also contained in the 43 angles video on the last page and which can easily be found searching nbc chopper 4?
I tell you why, as this live video was not clear. The lie about airplanes had to be spread rapidly so rather take bad rendering than a serious footage that requires discussion. Even today people like you make it so easy as you can not tell the difference between an actual filmed plane and a terribly bad job of editing.
On fox news chopper you get a very wide view of ny before the impact on the wtc2 where the plane MUST be visible. But it ain't there, it appears out of nowhere, melts into the steel tower without physics and its nose flies out of the other side.
The thousands of eyewitnesses you mention are the next lie. You just think it is clear they all saw,the boeing as there must have been so many people present but if you do your research you find out it is wrong. There is no official statement whatsoever as no witness ever had to make a proper report on a lawcourt. You have no idea what people were actually seeing and hearing.
What I have found out is that only a minority of witnesses that were asked by reporters actually identified an airliner. Most people said that they saw a small plane or maybe a missile or a jet. People who were seeing AND hearing a plane during the impact and identifying a passenger flight when it hit are almost not existent. Mentioning some witnesses who do so with proper proof may be a good idea before having “thousands of witnesses“ on one's side that surely nobody questions. Are they like the harley guy I linked who called the place “ground zero“ few minutes after the impact??
San Francisco airport had no single relative of the alleged passengers arrive when the 9/11 hoax was published on the news. I even read that passenger lists documented by the airlines have incoherent numbers and certain names appear multiple times on different planes. I do not have evidence at hand but the fact that nobody was waiting at airports for their family can easily be researched. United airlines even gave an official statement:
“We informed the families of the passengers that their relative must have died on the plane.“
Sure, calling hundreds of people whose number they can not have “Please do not arrive on our airport as your relative didn't make it“.
Very credible....there were no people as there were no airliners and fake passenger lists.
And what about wtc6 and wtc7? They were eradicated, how? If it was terrorists with stolen airliners what destroyed those buildings? There is not even debris in wtc6 but the whole interior is completely gone. Who has the ability to plan a controlled destruction of all wtc buildings and have any research or comission lead nowhere? Terrorists packing the whole towers with explosives/thermite for months?
No. Only the government could do that. And they did.
Edited an unclear formulation.
I really wonder what you are thinking!?
Spending a page explaining that the government lies about 9/11 which I spend little time talking about on this topic as you and others did the job explaining that the detonation was surely not just heated fuels, we even discussed the motives, and still you post dramatic nonsense like “terrorists won that day“ -.-
Realizing the government is miles away from telling you what happened how can you still be so blind to be believing them? Military reasons, political reasons, financial reasons THAT is 9/11, nothing more. Oil, NSA, TSA, Patriot Act, all of this crap. Even the most weird conspiracy theory no matter how stupid has more proof and sense than the ridiculous hoax the govs were spreading. And you still believe terrorists are to blame, do you still not get the reasons for 9/11? And how much the administration, in a perverted way, actually benefitted from the events?
And one more thing on the planes: The problems you mention do not exist at all. The newscast footages that were brought live is what I kept mentioning in every single post I made and kept telling you to investigate and comment on which of course you never did hoping to lie about them once I'm out. All you did was pathetically defending the Hazarkhani video which is surely the worst video editing in history.
I think I directed you to nbc chopper 4 about 300 times without any success and still you believe you know what an argument is.
The only interesting footage of those “30 proves“(which is a compilation video of how NOT to fake records) is the newscast footages as faking 30 or 400 low res strawberries videos is a work of an hour. And those live videos unlike you say do not show planes. Fox chopper has the alleged “plane's“ nose flying out of the building, nbc chopper shows an object that can hardly be recognized and if it is not edited, is still considerably smaller than an airliner and the disparities in contrast, lighting and sharpness between the plane layer and the actual video on the cnn Hazarkhani footage or the naudet video of the first impact is most laughable.
Also saying that the trajectory path of the “planes“ on all those videos of wtc2 impact from different angles were properly synchronized is a pure lie that shows a lack of research. Sticking only to nbc for instance, one must ask why the evening news report that was also spread in other countries(I was never able to see the actual live footage in my country on 9/11 ) is so bad compared to the live footage. It is contained in the 43 angles video posted on the previous page and shows the buildings from the exact same angle and position as the live cast. Except the whole background is removed to make it seem different, instead of the hudson river etc. there is blue nonsense and some terribly rendered black jet approaching the towers on a different path than the small moving object that can be seen during the live broadcast.
Why would you do this? Chosing a bad quality shot that strangely has no surrounding whatsoever and a n incoherent plane path instead of the good quality live shot which is also contained in the 43 angles video on the last page and which can easily be found searching nbc chopper 4?
I tell you why, as this live video was not clear. The lie about airplanes had to be spread rapidly so rather take bad rendering than a serious footage that requires discussion. Even today people like you make it so easy as you can not tell the difference between an actual filmed plane and a terribly bad job of editing.
On fox news chopper you get a very wide view of ny before the impact on the wtc2 where the plane MUST be visible. But it ain't there, it appears out of nowhere, melts into the steel tower without physics and its nose flies out of the other side.
The thousands of eyewitnesses you mention are the next lie. You just think it is clear they all saw,the boeing as there must have been so many people present but if you do your research you find out it is wrong. There is no official statement whatsoever as no witness ever had to make a proper report on a lawcourt. You have no idea what people were actually seeing and hearing.
What I have found out is that only a minority of witnesses that were asked by reporters actually identified an airliner. Most people said that they saw a small plane or maybe a missile or a jet. People who were seeing AND hearing a plane during the impact and identifying a passenger flight when it hit are almost not existent. Mentioning some witnesses who do so with proper proof may be a good idea before having “thousands of witnesses“ on one's side that surely nobody questions. Are they like the harley guy I linked who called the place “ground zero“ few minutes after the impact??
San Francisco airport had no single relative of the alleged passengers arrive when the 9/11 hoax was published on the news. I even read that passenger lists documented by the airlines have incoherent numbers and certain names appear multiple times on different planes. I do not have evidence at hand but the fact that nobody was waiting at airports for their family can easily be researched. United airlines even gave an official statement:
“We informed the families of the passengers that their relative must have died on the plane.“
Sure, calling hundreds of people whose number they can not have “Please do not arrive on our airport as your relative didn't make it“.
Very credible....there were no people as there were no airliners and fake passenger lists.
And what about wtc6 and wtc7? They were eradicated, how? If it was terrorists with stolen airliners what destroyed those buildings? There is not even debris in wtc6 but the whole interior is completely gone. Who has the ability to plan a controlled destruction of all wtc buildings and have any research or comission lead nowhere? Terrorists packing the whole towers with explosives/thermite for months?
No. Only the government could do that. And they did.
Edited an unclear formulation.
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Shard
Guest
Now I know you're trolling. This was my biggest clue:
You're the part of the population that makes me hope a plague will wipe us all out. The world doesn't need people like you in it.
You really think that NOBODY was on the streets of New York at 10:00 AM? Are you fucking serious? You think the biggest city in the western hemisphere was empty, on a weekday, during daytime?
You're the part of the population that makes me hope a plague will wipe us all out. The world doesn't need people like you in it.
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JeMaCheHi
Guest
Well well welll, my dear friends, let's gonna relax, we're just debating and everyone can think whatever he wants. It is absurd to fight for something that are just assumptions, both on one side as on the other. So please calm down and keep talking as friends, anyone here wants to see you both insulting each other.
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meesbaker
Guest
@Shard
You misunderstood me, I was even referring to what eyewitnesses said. I only say that not all of them report seeing a boeing that hit the towers. Just because there were thousands of people does not automatically mean that they all support what you say but you always refer to them as though they did. I wanted to write “You just think it's clear they all saw the boeing as there were so many people present but...“
As I have written many people who were around were not identifying an airliner but spoke about seeing a small plane or jet or even a missile. Many people also reported seeing no plane at all.
http://www.septemberclues.info/faq_4.shtml
(of course this tiny bit proves nothing but you never gave proof for the eyewitnesses who support your points at all)
You say that the presence of the passenger flights is proven by the presence of thousands of witnesses. You say no boeing being there would cause trouble because of witnesses. However, there is no official proof that thousands of statements are reporting this. There were many people but you can not know what they all saw and heared but still refer to them as though you do. The presence of an object that is considerably smaller than a passenger flight is absolutely possible and maybe even no plane at all. At least there was surely no airliner flying around.
And as I said before I wonder what your version is. What do you believe is what happened? You know the towers had to be brought down with powerful explosives but still think terrorists did it with airplanes at the same time? It makes no sense at all.
You misunderstood me, I was even referring to what eyewitnesses said. I only say that not all of them report seeing a boeing that hit the towers. Just because there were thousands of people does not automatically mean that they all support what you say but you always refer to them as though they did. I wanted to write “You just think it's clear they all saw the boeing as there were so many people present but...“
As I have written many people who were around were not identifying an airliner but spoke about seeing a small plane or jet or even a missile. Many people also reported seeing no plane at all.
http://www.septemberclues.info/faq_4.shtml
(of course this tiny bit proves nothing but you never gave proof for the eyewitnesses who support your points at all)
You say that the presence of the passenger flights is proven by the presence of thousands of witnesses. You say no boeing being there would cause trouble because of witnesses. However, there is no official proof that thousands of statements are reporting this. There were many people but you can not know what they all saw and heared but still refer to them as though you do. The presence of an object that is considerably smaller than a passenger flight is absolutely possible and maybe even no plane at all. At least there was surely no airliner flying around.
And as I said before I wonder what your version is. What do you believe is what happened? You know the towers had to be brought down with powerful explosives but still think terrorists did it with airplanes at the same time? It makes no sense at all.
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JeMaCheHi
Guest
Anyway I think that the most interesting part of this is WHO did it and WHY, more than how it was o where the planes colided (may be that ones were holographic images and the real ones were thrown into ocean... who knows, maybe they were real as Shard says)
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