Thoughts

[RPGillespie]

But will I still be the equivalent of a "Lv. 16 Crazy poster" in terms of Karma, or will I have to start over?

 

[Contra]

But will I still be the equivalent of a "Lv. 16 Crazy poster" in terms of Karma, or will I have to start over?

Not to sound like I'm attacking you, but I think the whole point is that it *doesn't freaking matter*. The post counts and related titles only really serve to make people want to "Get to the next level" by any means possible. At least in some cases, and not necessarily yours. Karma is as Karma does. It goes up, and it goes down. Your own actions determine your fate. Seeing as the number of times you've posted isn't a factor, I'd say that if a Karma system goes into effect, your current level means precisely squat. To be simple for moderation, and relatively fair to the users, I'm guessing everyone would start fresh.

But that's just me.

 

[Caddberry]

All I'm basically saying is that I like the idea of knowing who moderators are on a forum. I can turn to them for help or ask questions, and basically I like knowing they are there and who they are..

Plus, my writing style is easily identified.. I have a habit of using elipses waay to much to break thoughts.  

It's not about a title for me at all. To prove that I'd take back my other title it wouldnt matter to me.

I don't think this forum requires detailed moderation. There seriously aren't that many problems that we run into here.

I don't like the idea of having to log out of my account to moderate. If you see an issue you fix it on the spot. Having to log out would be a pain. It would seriously get old fast.

 

[Sad Jari]

All I'm basically saying is that I like the idea of knowing who moderators are on a forum. I can turn to them for help or ask questions, and basically I like knowing they are there and who they are..

And suck up to them?

Seriously though, you can turn to them - even if there is no way of messaging a specific moderator.

I think that anonymous mods might even be better in that respect, as long as the messages send to them get seen by all of them and for example only admin can delete them for the public bin or forum or whatever will be used. Thing is, the replies they send should be visible to all mods as well - that way none of them can go solo.

No doubt that at least one moderator will come crying, when I suggest something like that.

It is a nice method of self control. As long as everyone (every mod, that is) can see the messages and replies to them, the chances of someone trying persuade a single moderator to their side are much lower.

Yes yes, they can send email, or IM, I know that. Still, it's better than totally uncontrolled system, I think.

Plus, my writing style is easily identified.. I have a habit of using elipses waay to much to break thoughts.

I know. Write less? When you moderate, that is. Often times it's not actually required to write a novel.

It's not about a title for me at all. To prove that I'd take back my other title it wouldnt matter to me.

Isn't there a contradiction there? Think of it this way; if the moderator title would not be visible on your regular account, you could have your custom title back - since it wouldn't be blocking your moderator title anymore.

I don't like the idea of having to log out of my account to moderate. If you see an issue you fix it on the spot. Having to log out would be a pain. It would seriously get old fast.

It's a good point, in theory. But I don't see it as a serious problem, unless there's a great deal of moderation to be done.

 

[L. Spiro]

Why does it need to be the moderator account that is fake?
Why don’t the mods keep their accounts, keep their current names, keep the “respect” or “fear” that goes with their names, and instead execute your plan by creating fake normal accounts?

The existing mods keep their names and all the crap that goes with it.
Users PM/e-mail/notify them in the same manner as they currently do.
Modify the button Qhimm mentioned before (for posting) so that it toggles between your normal account and your moderator account.

Alhexx gets to lay down the law with his moderator (Alhexx) account while entering heated debates with his normal (Bad Mr. Frosty) account.
No one knows Alhexx is Bad Mr. Frosty.
Alhexx needs only to choose between the two names when posting.
Easy for Alhexx to do, solves all problems, etc.

Problem A: Sucking up to mods during debates/opinionated discussions.

• 
  During debates (etc.), Alhexx would be posting as Bad Mr. Frosty; people would only side with him if they feel he is right.
  As for people sucking up to “Alhexx”, what would be the difference between sucking up to a mod you know is named “Alhexx” or one you know is named “Moderator”?  There would be no point in sucking up if the name “Alhexx” isn’t appearing in debates.  Sucking up for the sake of sucking up becomes obvious, and would not do any more good than sucking up to the mysterious “Moderator” name.

Problem B: It’s too hard to switch between accounts!

• 
  Switching is just a matter of toggling a button on your posts.  Moderators can see who really posted, but normal users would just see, “Bad Mr. Frosty | Lv.25 Crazy Poster”.

Problem C: We already know who the mods are!

• 
  If suddenly you see that the newest registered member is “Bad Mr. Frosty”, how are you going to know it’s Alhexx?  The current moderators can slip into the fake ID’s and no one here would ever know (except the mods of course).

Problem D: It requires secrecy!

• 
  Yes.  All implementations of this system require secrecy.  However if a mod’s fake normal account is discovered, it isn’t too difficult for him or her to wait a few days and slip into a new account while no one is watching.

Problem E: But wouldn’t people still be unnecessarily careful, for fear of angering the mod?

• 
  They would be fearful of angering “Moderator” too, and that’s a good thing.  For general forum usage, it keeps them in check.  But the reason it was considered a bad thing when it was originally listed as a problem is because in can stop people from saying what they want to say in debates.  This is where Bad Mr. Frosty comes in.  People would be afraid of angering Alhexx just as much as they would be afraid of angering “Moderator”, and that is great because it helps keep them in check.  But during discussions, Bad Mr. Frosty will be posting, and people won’t be afraid of angering him.

Problem F: Moderators’ opinions would still be seen as the official forum opinions.

• 
  Technically this should never be a problem anyway.  If the moderators aren’t representing the forum, why are they moderating?  Either way, this problem is solved in the same manner as the original implementation.  The moderator posts opinions as Bad Mr. Frosty and moderates as Alhexx.  If he wants to represent the forum, he posts as Alhexx.

Problem G: People can still get personal with the moderators at times.

• 
  People can get personal with any other user on this forum at times.  The moderator (or the other users) have the ability to simply ignore the offender.  If someone is already personal with Alhexx, that isn’t going to change just because he has a normal account named Alhexx along with being a mysterious “Moderator”.  However, new people to the forums will be less likely to get personal with Alhexx since the debates will be held by Bad Mr. Frosty.  If a user gets personal with Alhexx because Alhexx bans him, well those people come and go, and moderators have been putting up with them for decades without slitting their own wrists.  Once he’s banned, he’s gone.

Problem H: Won’t normal users feel tense knowing they are always being watched?

• 
  Yes.  That is why they shouldn’t be knowing.  But with either method, it’s the same problem.  With both methods, once the user knows that some of the normal users around him or her are actually mods, he or she will be a bit more nervous.  But generally that is going to be a good thing.  It should keep people under control.  

[/list]
[/list]
[/list]
[/list]
[/list]
[/list]
[/list]
Will they be inhibited?  They shouldn’t be if the mod team does their job right.  If they are doing the job correctly, the only users who should feel any kind of pressure are the ones who like to cause trouble.  That holds true even with the current method of moderation.  Even with today’s method, people should know that they can disagree with a mod without being banned.  This should not change, regardless of any new moderation methods.[/list]


I already know what Qhimm has to say about this idea, and I already know what Qhimm is planning to do.
This is intended for everyone else.


L. Spiro

 

[Sad Jari]

You know, that is a pretty nice idea.

One problem, though; the rather distinctive writing styles of some mods are even worse problem when you do it this way. Now they have to (well, they don't have to, but they are likely to) write lot more on their "secret" account. Thus making it that that much more easier to spot them.

Even though you have to ID the "secret" account out of all users, instead of having to ID the said account of rather small number of users, suspected or known to be mods.

Also, the people who register soon after the change and post a lot... are likely to be the mods. It's kinda obvious. Perhaps they could use some old, unused accounts?

I still think that when it comes to Problem G, it would be better with anonymous mods and normal user accounts.

Oh, as for that problem F: I don't think that moderator's personal opinions on totally unrelated matters (politics, for example) should represent the forum officially, but that's not really the point.

I'm not sure... but I suspect that at least some people would like to keep their username for regular discussion, instead of modding. But like I said, that's just a guess.

 

[Qhimm]

I'm not sure... but I suspect that at least some people would like to keep their username for regular discussion, instead of modding. But like I said, that's just a guess.

I suppose this as well, and people are not going to be willing to start a new "normal" account and start from scratch at earning people's respect, and they wouldn't want to dedicate their entire original identity to moderating. Heck, we're not the Men in Black.

Probably all the problems can't be simultaneously solved, but personally I'm leaning towards the whole "make moderation non-personal" idea. Don't reveal who the moderators are, and don't reveal who moderates what. Keep moderation posts "anonymous", and instead provide a common communication channel to the more abstract concept of "the administrative staff" whenever such talk is needed. Keep moderating as simple as possible, not as a huge task that needs public recognition (this can be done with ranks instead). I'll try to do a quick run-through of Spiro's problem list with this idea:

• Problem B is completely solved by making the process automatic, separating moderation posts and user posts in the interface.
• Problems A, C, E, F and G are only problematic because long-time users already know who the moderators are. However, users who have become long-time regulars don't cause problems.
• Problem D isn't a big problem, because even if one moderator's identity should be revealed, you still don't know what work he/she is doing. Worst case scenario is still no worse than current day moderation systems.
• Problems E and H will be no worse than the current system, but the reason for being careful is a better one; fear of breaking the rules, instead of fear of pissing of a moderator personally.

That's my five cents (inflation).
[/list]

 

[Caddberry]

It's not about a title for me at all. To prove that I'd take back my other title it wouldnt matter to me.

Isn't there a contradiction there? Think of it this way; if the moderator title would not be visible on your regular account, you could have your custom title back - since it wouldn't be blocking your moderator title anymore.

Damn.. You are right.. That is a glaring contradiction.. LoL .. Well.. Ok.. Titles on forums do mean something to me.. "Druggie Chess Master" meant something to me.. I wont lie, but everyone that I care about on this forum knows me regardless of title. And if they dont know me regardless of title chances are that I wont care about them until they do.. So.. Really, a title wouldnt matter to me, but I wont lie and say it's meaningless.

I don't like the idea of having to log out of my account to moderate. If you see an issue you fix it on the spot. Having to log out would be a pain. It would seriously get old fast.

It's a good point, in theory. But I don't see it as a serious problem, unless there's a great deal of moderation to be done.

True.. Switching wouldnt be difficult unless there was a lot of crap to mod.. But would we still be able to retain post flags? When switching?

If it can be made into an easy system then I guess I wouldnt mind, but if we lose post flags or it becomes any bit of complicated I'd rather not.

Ultimately I'm lazy. Truly .. I know this may be hard for some of you to believe.. *Caddberry looks around and sees shock on everyone's face*

I like to make moderation as easy as possible.