Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?

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I believe in socialism up to a point.  What I don't believe in is the modern brand of socialism, whereby the workers get shafted at the expense of the lazy, unfit, and irresponsible (and don't take me for a rich person - I live on a council estate and have all my life.  I am as poor as they come.  A lot of my family vote socialist for the very reasons I HATE).  Let's take the UK, since that's got one of the most generous health services in the world.

People flock here from numerous countries simply for the benefits (tax payers money).  "Free" treatment. Then you have the people who have a crap diet, smoke, and don't exercise, who are far more likely to be ill.  Who pays for it?  You got it - the workers.  Many of these same people will be on benefits long term, sometimes sickness benefits for the rest of their lives.  Who pays?  You got it - the workers.  Women who can't be bothered to use contraception?  No problem. Let's just have an abortion and be done with it.  Who pays?  You got it - the workers.  And on and on and on.  Who suffers in this world?  The workers and those who ARE RESPONSIBLE (take someone responsible wanting to go and have treatment, but is put on a huge waiting list [very common here] simply because the NHS is swamped by DUMB and DUMBER).  Leftism is a mental illness. It's always championing criminals and lowlifes over the law abiding and prosperous (which is another reason 30+ people are dead in Belgium).

Modern socialism isn't a good thing.  It's a crap thing.  It's every bit as crap as the opposite uncaring side was.  What we need is a balance.  A socialism where people can't abuse the system (Obamacare is the weasley opposite).  Churchill summed up socialism as the equal sharing of misery - and he wasn't wrong.  It's current manifestation is broken.  Modern socialism may as well be commie, because it shares in some of its primary philosophy.

Also, I wouldn't put Sanders in charge of a bath.  He's every bit as ridiculous and deluded as Merkel. He's a modern day Neville. When I am forced to side with Hillary over him, that's not a good sign. People are laughing at the Republicans and saying how silly Trump is - but nothing is as bad as those two.

5 seconds on Google: http://nypost.com/2016/01/16/dont-be-fooled-by-bernie-sanders-hes-a-diehard-communist/

There are a ton.
 
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So what they are saying and what everyone else is saying - and the facts they do list are just not relevant because of the messenger and because you don't like the message?  That isn't a good argument.  It's a typical denial response (the absolute worst response is "LOL!  FOX!"  as if that somehow validates an opposite view).  I've read enough of his polices and history to know he's a gone in the head socialist with a lot of commie influences.

None of your post counters anything I linked to.

Frankly, I'm not even sure what I am doing back here.  It's not like anything ever gets solved by offtopic threads, is it?  What does solve it is ignoring a problem until something really bad happens (more correctly, the situation becomes unbearable) and everyone then pulls together to do something about it.  My way would be quick and relatively painless.  But the majority seem to have a kick for long, drawn out, and deadly.

So fun days.  ;D
 
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OK, I've had very few posts here on this forum, but been lurking here and this thread for many years now.

DLPB, you're not alone. I remember how ever since I settled back in Western Europe (about 10 years ago) I was taught all of this about "human rights", "multiculturalism is nothing new", "tolerance" and similar claptrap, but off course that narrative's been around for longer. The problem is that we're taught about freedom of press, but there's virtually none: nearly the entirety of our press is controlled by a few corporations with very similar views that continue to affirm the very policies that are bringing ruin to the world. The link is about the United States, but USA's been controlling Europe since 1945 and (I'm firmly convinced) is behind the creation of EEC (later EU). No offense to Americans, this is just about the American government and other institutions on its soil that steer the policy of the continent.

Non-conformist voices are largely drowned in this sea of disinformation that preaches things that don't correspond to reality: "multiculturalism is nothing new", first of all, state-sponsored mass immigration IS new, most of Western and Northern Europe began it in 1960s and 1970s without any referendum or popular vote (in Britain it began as early as 1948). At most the parliaments approved it (like Sweden in 1975), but again, almost all politicians represent the upper class of society and break promises so regularly after getting elected, no one can honestly say they voice the opinion of the larger population. What was the next devious step to make it somehow look legitimate and natural? Buy up and beat into submission/ruin the editorials that noticed and criticized the policy. And that's where almost all of the population got its "news" from. Here we like to look down and criticize Russia, Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and other dictatorships in North Africa and Middle-East about how they repress dissenting thoughts, yet somehow we naively assumed this wasn't happening in the "free world". Popular opinion in Europe has always been opposed to mass immigration, but it was never given the due air time and all we ever saw was occasional angry rebuttals on radio, dailies and TV about how "ignorant", "racist" and "fascist" those opposed to this undemocratic policy were. And even when such opinions were seen, they had no effect on the governments, which even promised to curb it once elected, but surprise, surprise! scaled it up once in power.

Then, after immigrants from outside Europe gathered sizable numbers, the press started parading about how "wonderful" and "multicultural" our countries had become. Feature films, programs and documentaries started appearing and showing their increased presence in the society. The entire education from cradle to grave was written by people that strictly adhered to this new ideology. The newer generations gradually stuck more and more to the leftist ideology of the 60s sexual revolution (again, supported by the press) and were born into a more and more advanced state of "multiculturalism", which is where the perception of it being "natural" comes from. They were led through an entire education and environment where all of these myths were affirmed, not knowing about reality in the past and/or being conditioned to be disgusted at it. Crimes and problems that arose because of this development were covered up, especially that of Islam in Europe. off course, the Left also pushed the narrative of how bad colonialism was (which is true to some extent), while refusing to acknowledge the good aspects of it, along with claiming that "everyone is mixed", which created guilt in the former colonial nations and also tried to validate mass immigration by saying "we're all mixed anyway, so why are you racists somehow against it now?". Leftists claimed that they were merely "telling the vanquished's side of the story", which is fine enough, but then proceeded to make it the only acceptable one! Meaning, they simply reversed the situation. This stuff is, btw, what I hear in my university, which does not tolerate counter-arguments (I also know it's the case in most others). It's especially bad when students are frequently just as, if not even more intolerant of them than the teachers. Basically, aside from probably Japan, entire societies are taught about how evil their ancestors were, while failing to teach about the invasions and enslavement of Europeans by Huns, Moors, Tartars, Turks and the Barbary Pirates, as well as things like the colonization of Africa by Arabs prior to the Europeans setting foot there. I'm all for the negative aspects about us being brought up, it's good for self-improvement as well, but at least be consistent and apply it to everyone!

I've only told here a small fraction of how deep the rabbit hole is (I could continue for dozens of times the amount I wrote here), but in short, our entire societies are constructed to continue this dire situation further and further. I said after the Paris attacks (which themselves followed the January 2015 shooting and others before) that these terrorist attacks would increase in number, and sure enough, the bloodbath in Brussels proved me right. And off course, the entire media is silent, or in denial about the link to Islamic terrorism and the ongoing catastrophe of the millions of illegals and Muslims (comparatively few are refugees, yet another of the media lies) flooding into Europe, which sparked a vast increase in crime. What kind of free press is this?!?! Why are mass demonstrations all over Europe against this madness covered up, while those in favor of it get wide coverage? Why is Merkel putting in prison Germans that criticize this insanity??? One doesn't have to be intelligent to predict this is going to continue to get worse. One just needs to have access to different sources of information, and that's what the majority of the population lacks. Hence the total denial of reality from so many people.

Now about the presidential elections, I see all this fear-mongering about Trump, but echoing DLPB's sentiment, even acknowledging that he's not perfect, being the only likely anti-PC candidate in the elections, that automatically makes him better than the others. Also, what is wrong about stopping illegal immigrants from Mexico and being in a partnership, rather than constant antagonism against Russia? Political correctness is the disease of our societies that prevents honest discussion and constructive measures to be proposed, only allowing room for those points of view that perpetuate the calamity, while silencing a priori those against as "hateful" and "unworthy". I honestly don't see Donald Trump changing that much even if he's elected, and he may well also break his promises in that case. Heck, he may even turn out to be catastrophic as strawberries. Still, other candidates look even worse. He's at worst the lesser evil right now. Literally the only reason there is this entire attack by the Western press on him is because he's resolute and doesn't accept their prejudiced view of how the world really is.

P.S: I'll try putting posts like these in a more appropriate thread, but I needed to respond to DLPB's thoughts here just this once. This kind of stuff affects everyone, I really wish humanity could progress, but it's difficult with this kind of people ruling us...
 
Ben Carson said it right - it's all to make sure the liberal elite cling to power.  They're desperate not to lose it. It suits their purpose to bring in tons of immigrants and other welfare dependents - because those people later vote for them - and not for anyone on the right.  The last thing they want getting in their way is the truth :P

And you can only ignore the truth for so long. It becomes impossible to ignore when the situation is obvious to everyone - and people start rebelling against the false narrative.

I also hope that Trump is made president and actually does a lot of what he claims he will. I'd have to believe that someone who is this outspoken and non-PC actually has the desire to make those things happen. Someone who didn't would do what the rest do - ignore. And if he was just a load of hot air, the elite wouldn't be running around in desperation to stop him. They're terrified.

Also, thanks for the post.  Not because it agrees with me - but because you put a lot of effort into it. The saddest indictment of the human race is that we allowed all this to happen.  Well, not "we" as in me and you - but the majority - who are easily led by the media and their upbringing.


Yes, "it's fox" omg omg.  It's about the only place you can see a man like Robert Spencer wiping the floor with these guys.  This Imam is avoiding the issue because he knows the truth.  And it's frightening that 80% of mosques are teaching this crap  and that this Imam is the kind of person teaching people anything.  Although, he is absolutely spot on about Saudi - which Spencer agrees is a huge issue (see his speeches online).
 
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I'll leave this dicussion with this.

This man speaks more sense in the first 10 minutes alone than any other American politician out there.  He makes Obama look like he is - a weak and foolish appeaser.
 
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