What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?

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FFX is very good in some ways, but has a lot of the roots of what would eventually be hated about later entries in the franchise. Bad voice acting, incomprehensible character motivations (mostly Seymour), and lack of a proper overworld really stand out. I enjoyed the game, but it was flawed in ways that would only stand out more with subsequent entries.
 
True, but that's like saying Goldeneye was bad because it popularized the FPS genre.
 
I'm saying it's imperfect for reasons that would be exacerbated in later entries. It's like saying Call of Duty 4 is bad because it popularized the things about the FPS genre that aren't actually good.
 
I thought X was a brilliant game and it at least added some things, if it took others away, like controlling Aeons.  It was packed with stuff to do, and I cared about the characters and story.  After that, it all went wrong imho.
 
I get what Covarr is saying. All FF games have aspects I enjoy, but at the same time introduced poorer qualities which get exacerbated from there forward. I completely agree with his points on FFX; voice acting and linearity are the ones that strike me as poorly done game elements that have continued in the series and are embodied as "core" elements now. FFXIII very much improved on the voice acting, but then stifled its potential storytelling impacts with way too much CGI eye candy.

1 step forward, 2 steps back is how I view it.
 
I believe X was far from Linear.  Yeah you were restricted in the beginning but when you got the air ship you can still do stuff leading up to the final battle.  Linear games give you no such freedom.  Not trying to say you have no idea what you are talking about but 10 had very little restrictions if at all.  I'm not trying to say ten is perfect or what not but it introduced me to the series so I feel I have to come to its defense a little.  I think ten gets to much crap then it deserves.
 
I believe X was far from Linear.  Yeah you were restricted in the beginning but when you got the air ship you can still do stuff leading up to the final battle.  Linear games give you no such freedom.  Not trying to say you have no idea what you are talking about but 10 had very little restrictions if at all.  I'm not trying to say ten is perfect or what not but it introduced me to the series so I feel I have to come to its defense a little.  I think ten gets to much crap then it deserves.
If it's what introduced you to the series, than your opinion is fair enough. I was introduced with IV (NA FFII for SNES), although I never was big into the series until VII. The huge difference for me between FF games prior to X and X+ is the lack of a world map. X was somewhat of a hybrid of this, given that you could choose marked places on a static map and jump between the different levels. The world maps prior to X allowed interaction, making it a level in itself. You could move characters freely and it always had enemy and boss encounters to deal with. In many cases, doing something on the world map required progression in the game or it contained some of the best well hidden secrets.
 
If it's what introduced you to the series, than your opinion is fair enough. I was introduced with IV (NA FFII for SNES), although I never was big into the series until VII. The huge difference for me between FF games prior to X and X+ is the lack of a world map. X was somewhat of a hybrid of this, given that you could choose marked places on a static map and jump between the different levels. The world maps prior to X allowed interaction, making it a level in itself. You could move characters freely and it always had enemy and boss encounters to deal with. In many cases, doing something on the world map required progression in the game or it contained some of the best well hidden secrets.
I see what you mean now yeah that was a big difference but one that wasn't a big issue even looking back on it now.  Tidus could use some work yeah but atleast he is a little better then Cloud emotion and confidence wise.
 
FFX was a very linear game in the sense that the story shuttled you along from area to area, without leaving a huge amount to explore. The reason why it wasn't a problem is because there are still a lot of extras to do in the games, and secrets to uncover. The story and writing were also great, save for two or three generally unlikeable characters.

People point at 13's flaws of being linear as just the map design. Sure, the map design is laughably linear with no places to go, but that wasn't the only problem. What people (and designers obviously) overlook is the importance of having things to do or discover within whatever map you have. (EDIT: That's the reason why FF13-2 and Lightning Returns still have a weird feeling of linearity, even though the maps are significantly bigger. There needs to be things to do and they need to be interesting). P4G has maps that are as linear as you can get but if "feels" less linear because the areas are jam packed with things to do and secrets to uncover. Not to mention the writing in P4G is absolutely stellar, and makes those secrets so interesting and addictive. 13 had absolutely nothing to uncover until the very end of the game, and when you finally had something else to do (side missions on pulse) it was as boring, bland, and poorly written as the rest of game.

What people are really missing in these games are secrets to uncover and non-essential side missions that are cleverly written or interesting in some way. Square seems to dump most of their money into graphics and QA (most of Square's games run flawlessly, which is admirable when compared to some other companies), but they don't realize that it's those little secrets which reward players for investing their time and attention into the world that makes players really appreciate it. TWEWY and KH are games that seem to understand that, and that's the biggest reason I still have some hope reserved for FF15, despite all the negativity generated from the 13 trilogy.
 
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I believe X was far from Linear.
All FF's (not counting spinnoffs, MMOs and sequels) are linear. Both story and exploration wise. Some hide it more than others. (Even Gta is linear).

Concerning character growth, I think 8, 10 and 12 are the most non-linear. 10 kinda depends whether you choose simple or advanced spheregrid. Simple = linear character growth as busywork.

Reading through this topic I see some hidden assumptions on what a good game is...

What the hell is wrong eith squeeny? No passion. The top ups may have some passion for their work, but the staff is only doing their job.
 
Final Fantasy 15 is the key to reviving Final Fantasy. Turn-based battles are not that popular anymore, they are dead in a sense. Bravely Default kind of brings some new life to turn-based battles, but it needs more than that to come back to life.
 
FFX was a very linear game in the sense that the story shuttled you along from area to area, without leaving a huge amount to explore. The reason why it wasn't a problem is because there are still a lot of extras to do in the games, and secrets to uncover. The story and writing were also great, save for two or three generally unlikeable characters.

People point at 13's flaws of being linear as just the map design. Sure, the map design is laughably linear with no places to go, but that wasn't the only problem. What people (and designers obviously) overlook is the importance of having things to do or discover within whatever map you have. (EDIT: That's the reason why FF13-2 and Lightning Returns still have a weird feeling of linearity, even though the maps are significantly bigger. There needs to be things to do and they need to be interesting). P4G has maps that are as linear as you can get but if "feels" less linear because the areas are jam packed with things to do and secrets to uncover. Not to mention the writing in P4G is absolutely stellar, and makes those secrets so interesting and addictive. 13 had absolutely nothing to uncover until the very end of the game, and when you finally had something else to do (side missions on pulse) it was as boring, bland, and poorly written as the rest of game.

What people are really missing in these games are secrets to uncover and non-essential side missions that are cleverly written or interesting in some way. Square seems to dump most of their money into graphics and QA (most of Square's games run flawlessly, which is admirable when compared to some other companies), but they don't realize that it's those little secrets which reward players for investing their time and attention into the world that makes players really appreciate it. TWEWY and KH are games that seem to understand that, and that's the biggest reason I still have some hope reserved for FF15, despite all the negativity generated from the 13 trilogy.
Going off of this I guess it doesn't help that they are doing what five projects at a time?
 
All FF's (not counting spinnoffs, MMOs and sequels) are linear. Both story and exploration wise. Some hide it more than others. (Even Gta is linear).

Concerning character growth, I think 8, 10 and 12 are the most non-linear. 10 kinda depends whether you choose simple or advanced spheregrid. Simple = linear character growth as busywork.

Reading through this topic I see some hidden assumptions on what a good game is...

What the hell is wrong eith squeeny? No passion. The top ups may have some passion for their work, but the staff is only doing their job.
I don't know about that. I would say the director and writers hold most of the blame, though I don't know how high up you would consider their status. The programmers and artists seem to have done an amazing job on all three 13 games. The flaws in the games are more fundamental than just lazy work by the team.
 
This is a classic case of wishing we knew how things work so we can give our concerns to the right people instead of dumping it all on Nomura.  I love the designs on all their games as well.  I just wish we could tell the people where it is lacking on how we like to see it fixed.
 
Bravely Default kind of brings some new life to turn-based battles, but it needs more than that to come back to life.
South Park: The Stick of Truth has surprisingly deep turn-based battles, at least from what I've played so far. In particular, I like the "bleeding" mechanic, which is like poison but stackable, and the ability for enemies to swap their weakness on-the-fly by changing stances adds a fair bit of depth also (though not a lot because you can have a melee weapon and a ranged weapon equipped at the same time).

I think the reason turn-based battles aren't popular these days is largely because studios don't have the confidence to try. When I look at recent games with turn-based combat, I see very few games coming out (Bravely Default, Fire Emblem), but those I do see seem to be getting good reviews. I think if more studios would just release these games, they would do well.
 
The stick of truth is a surprise refreshment for todays standards! I like it as well and wish to play it sometime!
 
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I don't know about that. I would say the director and writers hold most of the blame, though I don't know how high up you would consider their status. The programmers and artists seem to have done an amazing job on all three 13 games. The flaws in the games are more fundamental than just lazy work by the team.
Yes the graphics are amazing.
Lack of passion =/= lazy. It's a lack of passion in general amongst the whole team.
Mass Effect 3 had the same problem.

Oh, Stick of truth. Can't wait to play it!  ;D
 
RPGs are not restricted to a specific kind of battle-style such as turn-based.
 
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