Why is Aeris' death so significant?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kudistos Megistos
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I suppose that if you don't want emotional impact or drama, then you won't get anything out of that scene, but some of us do. Don't downplay the importance of something just because it isn't your cup of tea. It's like saying Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata is just some bloke slamming down on some piano keys and then, after hearing someone explain how this creates music, saying "hurr I don't like music, I just like slamming on piano keys".

Ironically, you've done just what you seem to be accusing me of doing; I explain why this scene is important to a lot of people and you shit on it just because it isn't your thing. I didn't say that everyone has to love this scene, but what I do ask is that people at least appreciate what other people see in it instead of saying "durr, he just killed a flower girl; my villain is better because he has a higher kill count. I don't care about story or motive".
 
Every Villain has an ulterior motive, simply because he/she/it has to, the villain must have goal to accomplish and a reason for completing that goal.

A game where a guy/girl/thing gets up one morning and says "You know what? Today, I'm going to do my best to kill everyone on the planet!" would be fun to play for shits and giggles when you're bored. The most similar game I can think of at the moment is Castle Crashers.

In my own personal opinion, the best villain in gaming is probably Arthas Menethil (better known in World of Warcraft as The Lich King) from the Warcraft 3 series. He was the original Hero of the game, turned evil by lust. Yes, he did ultimately want to kill everything, and it was a fun game to play with a great story.

Getting back on-topic, Games without story won't last long. War-game players love Halo and/or Call of Duty because they have a campaign with a decent story (personal opinion) that appeals to the players.

A game has to be able to answer questions like "Why am I killing these people?" or "Why are these people trying to kill me?"

A game also must consist of some drama. Life is drama. People like something that they can relate to or understand. You know that (usually) there is a hero and a villain. You also (usually) know that the hero will overcome the villain's obstacles no matter what. Drama is the way those events are played out. If it was just a game where a guy steals your bagel, and immediately after he does it you kill him and take your bagel back, it would be entertaining once or twice (I mean come on, it would at least be humorous to play a few times) but it will never make it in the industry.

Edit: Also, a game with no emotional impact? That isn't a game, that's a program. I'm not being biased to games with intricate stories, just saying that no matter what the game is it should invoke emotional responses. Whether that response be anger, love, curiosity (if you can call that an emotion), joy, sadness etc., is besides the point because it is an emotional response.
 
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a game that is fun, has no emotion, and no drama? I find it hard to think of one, but Pong, Space Invaders, and Asteroids come to mind. No story at all, you just play the game. I would include pacman, but the ghosts DID steal Ms Pacman, so i guess that counts as drama. Books are the same way, if no one cared we would all be happy reading See Spot Run and never read another book.

games have drama because most players prefer it, and it makes the experience more real. I love the occasional homicidal lunatic (Dark Knight anyone?) but it is very difficult to pull off a truly evil character, much more so than a sickly sweet good one.
 
Without a storyline, I personally wouldn't enjoy a game for very long.  Even the under-developed storyline of FFI, which basically existed for the purpose of letting you know where to go and when, did a lot for it because it feels like there is some purpose in playing the game.  Even though it's a world of fiction, where nothing exists and nothing matters, it mustn't be allowed to feel meaningless or else many gamers like myself will lose interest.

And I literally just reiterated every other post in this thread :P

Let me use FF6 as an example.  I'll admit it - I thought Kefka was pretty awesome while I was playing through that game, in my own little immature way.  His personality had no dimension, but that was fine by me.  He was the drama and the comic relief at the same time.  He put the characters who did have some personality through a lot of pain and grief.  Yes, he tore apart the world, but I wouldn't have cared about that if it hadn't affected the mood of the game.  In other words, I liked him because he provided a lot of the drama, which was reflected in the other characters.  All the while, his attitude (especially while killing Gestahl) cracked me up.  The way he can get you to laugh as he is through all the terror is the only level of empathy I ever experienced with him directly, and it was enough to make me appreciate him as a villain.  Yet the deeper characters such as Terra and Celes kept me from becoming too emotionally detached from the whole thing.
 
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Without a storyline, I personally wouldn't enjoy a game for very long.
I simply do not understand this. I've probably invested more hours in Tetris and Panel De Pon than most other games, and they are puzzles with no story whatsoever! Hell, my absolute favorite game, Left 4 Dead 2, has a paper-thin story with shit for character development and zero drama.

For an RPG, a story is a must, and a good story is a plus, but for games like Bad Dudes, the plot adds nothing, and in the case of games like Dr. Mario 64, the plot just gets in the way of the game.
 
With an RPG a story is needed but I am not so sure how much it matters.  I absolutely love BOF3 but its story is a little on the basic side.
 
I've probably invested more hours in Tetris and Panel De Pon than most other games, and they are puzzles with no story whatsoever!
Touché. I had been of the mind of the general consensus. I now must retract my thoughts! I spent an entire year playing nothing but Snood and Super Bounce Out.
 
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a game that is fun, has no emotion, and no drama? I find it hard to think of one, but Pong, Space Invaders, and Asteroids come to mind. No story at all, you just play the game. I would include pacman, but the ghosts DID steal Ms Pacman, so i guess that counts as drama. Books are the same way, if no one cared we would all be happy reading See Spot Run and never read another book.
um Space Invaders... "aliens attacking? MY PLANET?! DIE YOU SONS OF BITCHES!"

i think something like that is the emotion they were going for in that one. but true.. as for pong it must have been the joy emotion in the PvP aspect of the game. "ha! i beat you!" that kinda thing.
 
It is very simple, Kefka is better because Sephiroth DOES NOTHING! he has no notable quotables, he gets everything wrong (no you're not an Ancient) and all he really does that pisses you off is kill Aerith. How much more impersonal can you get then hiding in the arctic and summoning a meteor in safety and security? With FF6 they slowly nurtured the player's hatred of Kefka and all of the characters had a reason to fight him. Why does red 13 or Cait Sith care about Sephiroth? Look at vincent. All he says is I don't care about anything and he goes back to his casket until you try and leave and then he has a sudden and unexplained change of heart. FF6 had a WAY better story while FF7s was poorly explained and full of long drawn out portions where nothing happened FF6 had a story that was non-stop and far stronger on character development, for both good guys and bad guys. The idea that FF7 story was more mature is garbage. It was poorly done except for a couple real gems. FF6 story was all gems.
 
It is very simple, Kefka is better because Sephiroth DOES NOTHING! he has no notable quotables, he gets everything wrong (no you're not an Ancient) and all he really does that pisses you off is kill Aerith. How much more impersonal can you get then hiding in the arctic and summoning a meteor in safety and security? With FF6 they slowly nurtured the player's hatred of Kefka and all of the characters had a reason to fight him. Why does red 13 or Cait Sith care about Sephiroth? Look at vincent. All he says is I don't care about anything and he goes back to his casket until you try and leave and then he has a sudden and unexplained change of heart. FF6 had a WAY better story while FF7s was poorly explained and full of long drawn out portions where nothing happened FF6 had a story that was non-stop and far stronger on character development, for both good guys and bad guys. The idea that FF7 story was more mature is garbage. It was poorly done except for a couple real gems. FF6 story was all gems.
why is it everywhere i go people with the word "amazing" in there usernames seem to troll like crazy, have you actually played FF7, they give a very good saddening story (a full story i might add) for vincents introverted attitude, as for sephiroth, you really can't blame him for getting things wrong when the other villians of the story (yes, there is more than one villian) go out of there way to make sure Sephiroth didn't know the truths. for instance, imagine a young sephiroth, now imagine if the walking monkey in glasses (Hoji) walked up to sephiroth and said "i'm your father and i'm proud of you" instead of saying "GET IN THE TRAINING ROOM AND KILL A BUNCH OF SUPER MONSTERS WHILE I LAUGH AND TYPE ON COMPUTERS". what if someone had the brains to walk up to sephiroth and explain things to him, rather than him having to find out from a bunch of books in an old mansion and realizing no one cared about him, ever. i dislike borrowing from crisis core, but you also must incorporate the fact that he loses his two only friends, which, to someone who is as introverted as he, CAN lead someone to become relatively weak in the mind, which of course, can lead to a full snap. then he goes about taking his vengeance on the people who he believes are responsible for taking his entire race from him (at this point reason no longer works, simply saying "your not a cetra" won't work). he messes with the main characters mind constantly, not because he had to, but simply because of his hatred, he then takes away an innocent girl who only wanted the world to keep on going, not to mention a serious love interest to the main character, this combined with him making sure cloud knows that if sephiroth hadn't done it, Cloud eventually would have himself. then he prepared to do exactly what kefka did, but instead of doing it over a time, he planned to do it in one fell swoop, meteor hits and BAM! instant vengeance and sephiroth becomes a god, should his plan have succeeded, he also likely would have been completely immortal i might add. and finally, the last thing to note (yes this is important) is how he is defeated. to steal from one of kudistos's arguements, it was Sephiroth's arrogance that defeated him. if he had decided to do so, he could have easily destroyed the entire party many times, but his arrogance wouldn't let him, he enjoyed playing with cloud's mind, enjoyed watching the suffering, all the while cooped up in a nice little ice haven, in the end it wasn't only cloud and friends that stopped him (if he can ever truly be stopped) it was his own foolish arrogance, which leaves him with that weakness, and every good villian should have one good weakness for the stories sake.
 
It is very simple, Kefka is better because Sephiroth DOES NOTHING! he has no notable quotables, he gets everything wrong (no you're not an Ancient) and all he really does that pisses you off is kill Aerith. How much more impersonal can you get then hiding in the arctic and summoning a meteor in safety and security? With FF6 they slowly nurtured the player's hatred of Kefka and all of the characters had a reason to fight him. Why does red 13 or Cait Sith care about Sephiroth? Look at vincent. All he says is I don't care about anything and he goes back to his casket until you try and leave and then he has a sudden and unexplained change of heart. FF6 had a WAY better story while FF7s was poorly explained and full of long drawn out portions where nothing happened FF6 had a story that was non-stop and far stronger on character development, for both good guys and bad guys. The idea that FF7 story was more mature is garbage. It was poorly done except for a couple real gems. FF6 story was all gems.
Someone's butt is hurt. And someone doesn't know what makes a good story. I also suspect that someone didn't play FF7 and is piecing together what he knows of the story from arguments he's seen on internet forums.

Also,

>FF6

>character development

kagaminexasperated.jpg
 
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tl;dr

I would post my own wall of text, but it doesn't look like this is going to progress all that much.  It'd be great if the arguments could be condensed a bit and the "Enter" and "Shift" buttons on the keyboard could be used less sparingly.
 
FF7 is the only Sci-Fi/Cyberpunk Final Fantasy.. infact I did not enjoy any of the other ones. Tried I to XII and yes.. some were decent but FF7 was different.. people who did not even like RPG games like it. My Dad even played it for years. But as for the real topic.. why is Aeris death so significant.. well there are a few reasons.. Cloud's love triangle between Tifa and Aeris is over, you're losing a valuable party member and her death changes Cloud for years. He doesn't really come to peace with it until the end of Advent Children. I would say her death is pretty $#%%ing significant.
 
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Wall of Text
Wall of Text
-.-'
tl;dr

I would post my own wall of text, but it doesn't look like this is going to progress all that much.  It'd be great if the arguments could be condensed a bit and the "Enter" and "Shift" buttons on the keyboard could be used less sparingly.
I apologize, i feel so ashamed
 
Video games, more so than any other form of media, allows a person to feel a connection to the characters in the story. Sephiroth may not be the greatest villain ever created, but he was "real." All his life he was raised a SOLDIER and taught to life his life in a specific was, some could say he was brainwashed, until he finally found out the truth, causing him to finally snap. As for his "2-Dness," as confirmed by the FF7 Ultimania Omega, there is very little actual screen time with the real Sephiroth, he may be controlling Jenova, who took on his form, but Jenova IS a 2-D character, meant to be nothing more than a pure animal that only exists to kill(much like Kefka).

In my opinion, the fact that Kefka was able to kill so many people is not a testament to how great Kefka is, but rather the to the shortcomings of the heroes who couldn't stop him. If Sephiroth were given the same chance, he would not have left the world in a state in which it could recover.

Finally, character deaths do amazing things for a story. It gives the player the same sense of desperation and hopelessness that the character must be feeling; that you are not an invincible team that has no possible way of loosing.  As it has been said to death, the death of a million strangers could never feel the same as the death of a friend. Aeris' death was so significant because she was the first true video game friend to die.

*looks at his wall of text*

ehh, might as well stop here 8-)
 
"blah blah blah"
That's what I read.
You know what the pathetic thing is? You posting this on a forum where it's 99% consisted of FF7.
/facepalm
 
@athleticbear
Sorry if I went a lil far there, but seeing people posting that "FF7 sucks" and this and that, yes, I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, but come on, does it have to be on a forum where it's FF7 based?
It's like going to a church and bashing on about religion. *sigh*
 
@athleticbear
Sorry if I went a lil far there, but seeing people posting that "FF7 sucks" and this and that, yes, I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, but come on, does it have to be on a forum where it's FF7 based?
It's like going to a church and bashing on about religion. *sigh*
or going to sqeenix and bashing long haired villians :P
 
@athleticbear
Sorry if I went a lil far there, but seeing people posting that "FF7 sucks" and this and that, yes, I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, but come on, does it have to be on a forum where it's FF7 based?
It's like going to a church and bashing on about religion. *sigh*
or going to sqeenix and bashing long haired villians :P
Yesterday I went right into Squeenix's HQ and complained about belts!
 
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