[WIP] Battle-scene Enhancement

[Armorvil]

I read everything KM said, and I still think Pyro's scene is great.

Getting rid of the mountains is not being authentic to the original and is simply a case of getting rid of something that one happens to dislike personally.

Yup, and what's wrong with that ? It is logic to do what one likes, during one's free time. I like you KM, you're a great guy and all, but pretending that your opinion has more value than someone else's is quite pretentious. This is subjective matter we're talking about, here.

 

[sicatrix]

I hail from Mugen forums, and from my experience there all creations should only receive bug report feedback, throw an opinion here and there and hope the creator would agree, and if not edit it yourself upon release = a much better form of freedom.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

pretending that your opinion has more value than someone else's is quite pretentious.

I'm not the one doing that. I'm saying that the opinion of just about everyone who has ever designed a video game has more value than the opinion of one person.

 

[pyrozen]

I'm not the one doing that. I'm saying that the opinion of just about everyone who has ever designed a video game has more value than the opinion of one person.

your creating a false group of mystery developers whom you have never even met to back up YOUR personal opinion. Or maybe you only play games that keep the enviroment really small. Initally i cared about your opinion, but now i don't since you obviously have no consideration for mine, or the fact that I am the one creating it. Maybe you should have all of your developers create the FF7 that you are envisioning, because they obviously agree with you. Or download GiMP and show me that your way is better, simply repeating it does nothing to convince me.

Im done with this petty bullshit and i'm going to go do something productive, i suggest everyone else do the same.

lee

 

[halkun]

Kudistos, cut it out. You are being antagonistic.

Try and hold opinions without an argument. If you are that passionate about it, you can try offering constructive criticism, or better yet,  try making something yourself as an example. It's not exactly hard to do a texture swap anymore.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

your creating a false group of mystery developers whom you have never even met to back up YOUR personal opinion.

The Final Fantasy developers are neither false nor mysterious. Nor are the developers of all the other games that always have something significant in the background.

Or maybe you only play games that keep the enviroment really small.

Like RPGs? Or like all non-sandbox games, where having a small environment is a necessity?

Kudistos, cut it out. You are being antagonistic.

Try and hold opinions without an argument. If you are that passionate about it, you can try offering constructive criticism

What? When have I done anything other than offer constructive criticism? At no point have I resorted to personal attacks, and at no point have my criticisms been along the lines of "this sucks you suck everything you make sucks". No. I have offered general approval of most of pyrozen's work since he has been here but pointed out assertively that there is one part of it that has something wrong with it and have and said exactly how this can be improved. I have not based my criticisms on personal opinion but have pointed out general practice when it comes to making backgrounds in games. I have done so in language that is as unemotional as possible, even though I have been accused of "attacks" and ordering people to "kneel to my wishes". How can criticism possibly be more constructive?

Really, I fail to see how I am the one being antagonistic, especially when I was just accused of lying and told that my attempt at giving constructive criticism was "petty bullshit".

 

[Armorvil]

Yeah, because the game designers you know so well are superior entities and never mess up. To be frank, in all my years of gaming (and god knows I have many behind my back), these professionnals disappointed me more than once - even in Squaresoft / Square-Enix (FFX-2, FFXII, FFXIII, ...). How could we trust you, when you keep them so high in your esteem ?... ...See how this works ? No one's opinion is better than someone else's when one's dealing with matters as subjective as this.

And I'm sorry, but I stand my ground. You sound pretentious, with your talk "I know what the best game designers think ! Their (and my) opinions are of higher value than all of yours ! You are wrong !"

Quit being childish and move on, if you don't like what Pyro is doing.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

I don't recall calling them perfect. Nay, it's such a basic design principle that even mediocre game designers know it. It's kind of like art classes in primary school; they tell you to not leave any white on the paper and have detail everywhere, even if it isn't very realistic. Why? Because bland backgrounds look bad except in very specific circumstances. Art may be subjective to some degree, but there are some basic principles that can only be broken in special circumstances by special people.

Also, I haven't used any personal insults, so don't call me "pretentious" or "childish", especially if other people are supposed to come to the conclusion that I am the one being antagonistic.

 

[Armorvil]

Look, you voiced your opinion. And the person you're talking to said he prefers his way. End of story. You can argue all you like, pull generalities and insult people's intelligence all you like (a basic design principle ? Art classes in primary school ? Ah ! Tell that to the game designers of Ico and Shadow of the Colossus), it won't change the fact that Pyro prefers his way. So yeah, your behaviour continues to be both pretentious and childish.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

So yeah, your behaviour continues to be both pretentious and childish.

Remember kids, Kudistos Megistos is the one who is flaming and attacking everyone. ;D

Since I think this thread is going this way, perhaps someone can make an ATTN: Kudistos Megistos thread in Completely Unrelated. Everyone I have ever disagreed with or who has a grudge for some other reason can go there and tell me what a big, mean poopy-head I am, whilst I respond (and yes, I will respond when people insult me or accuse me of things I haven't done).

 

[Armorvil]

Poor thing. I have nothing against you. As I said earlier, I like you (no, this is not a love declaration ). But that doesn't mean I have to always agree with you, either. And I also am childish and pretentious, at times. It's quite natural ; we're humans after all. The thing is, one has to let things go eventually.

Now come on, and give me a hug !  :-*

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

I have nothing against you. As I said earlier, I like you (no, this is not a love declaration ). But that doesn't mean I have to agree with you, either. And I can also be childish and pretentious, at times, it's quite natural. We're humans after all. The thing is one has to let things go, eventually.

Really? You see, when I disagree with someone I get insulted and accused of lying and flaming, so I thought that I'd act that way when people disagree with me.

Poor thing.

Hey, I'm not poor, I'm just thrifty! ;D

 

[Bosola]

Whatever the rights and wrongs, there's scarcely anything to be gained by thrashing this out.

I, though, agree that most wide-open battle scenes I've encountered look uneven, visually 'unbalanced', estrange the player from action and look unfinished. But then, I'm sure people will claim Rebirth is too hard, that my pruning of enemies reduces variety and that Libre shouldn't have copied WM's UI, so I'll never command complete consensus. Such is life.

 

[sl1982]

That's enough everyone. If you wish to discuss art in game design you can create a thread in unrelated. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion but this is starting to degenerate into a flame war.

 

[Grimmy]

I know quoting images is a no no, but I wanted to help get this back on topic. I really think this is fantastic work. 100x better than the original IMO. It throws the lacking battle models into sharp relief. I hope we see much more of this from you pyrozen.

 

[pyrozen]

here's an attempt to please the mountaineers around here. It looks okay, but the source image was low resolution so it doesn't look as good as it should. Ill give it another go tomarrow with better sources. I also tweaked the grass a hair to make it match a little better.

lee

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Mountaineers, eh? ;D

The mountains look a bit too far away, although that might be because the grass in the background doesn't match up yet with the grass in the foreground.

I also wonder whether it might be wise to try to make things in the backgrounds on the world map look like the things on the map itself. I remember reading a while ago that some people wanted the style of the backgrounds in the bombing mission to resemble the backgrounds in the field screen, so perhaps the same principle could be applied, so long as it doesn't involve great divergence from the original battle background.

 

[sl1982]

Yeah, that is not happening in the bombing mission. The battle backgrounds will resemble the original battle backgrounds.

Sorry Kudistos, accidently clicked modify not reply

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Yeah, that is not happening in the bombing mission. The battle backgrounds will resemble the original battle backgrounds.

Sou nan da ;D

It may have been in another thread that I read it. I suppose it might be impossible to make it resemble the field background and still be faithful to the original in some cases.

Sorry Kudistos, accidently clicked modify not reply

I'm just wondering when you gained mod power in this forum and in general

 

[sl1982]

Before today, after obesebear became a global mod.

edit: And you did read it in the bombing mission, but the main problem with it is many of the battle scenes don't resemble field scenes. Or the same battle scene is used with multiple field backgrounds, that may not match up artistically.