Yes, it's now my turn to ask for advice on a major system up

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Ya know, AMD is starting to sound better.......

Like I said, the AMD route was my first choice, but dad was so in doubt about trusting the AMD processor that he was really pushing me to get an Intel CPU.  Right now, I just don't know.  My friend has an AMD and is not experiencing any problems, thermal or otherwise.

I gotta go now, I'll finish what I have to say later.
 
Let me just add that components will make or break an Athlon. Athlons require a high quality Power Supply. Be wary of cases that come with generic Power Supplies. I suggest getting an Antec 400w PS....I'm using the 300w version and have had no problems with lack of power, with it and my 1.2 Athlon.

Lack of power is the number one cause of random reboots. Enermax and Forton Source PS's are also considered good brands, but your going to pay for them

You also need a good Motherboard....Epox and the "Sayo Dragon plus" seem to be the best right now, according to reviews.

And stay with named-brand memory, stay away from the cheaper generic brands. Memory is cheap right now, anyway. Why bother saving 5 dollars for, luck of the draw, generic memory.

And if your worried about temperatures, and you don't mind the sound of a WW2 airplane engine. Get the

Global Win CAK38 Solid Copper Cooler (pricy)
or the
Global Win WBK38  (better priced)

or just choose one:

http://www.coolerguys.com/cpucool/duron.shtml

I'm using the Alpha PAL6035 with the ultra quiet Sunon FAN.....The temps are a little high with this fan....The Delta Fan will bring down the temps but is, very, very, very noisy.....maybe the middle fan (YS-tech) was the best choice, too late, now.......  But if you don't mind the noise, anything with a Delta Fan, will cool....and if that fan ever goes out, your going to know it.

[edited] 65 2001-12-12 02:51

[edited] 65 2001-12-12 02:57
 
Ok. I'm back.  Time to put my response on the various issues out, en masse.:

PSU: I'll ask my dad what he thinks would be the best PSU to get for my system.  I'll take your suggestions into consideration as well.

TEMPERATURE: Well, I don't think I'll have to worry that much about temperature, since my house has blown-in insulation and central air conditioning, and we normally keep the ambient temperature in the house at 70 or so degrees F at the most.  In other words, I'm not running the system in sauna-like conditions already.

Now, I know I had this little scare with the possibility that my CPU or PSU's fan was failing.  As I stated in the other thread, it turns out I mistaked what I heard for the death throes of the battery within this old Mario World game-watch I had.  The battery sent out a final spurt, making it make the series of beeps I described.

CPU BRAND:  I am still weighing the pros and cons of the different CPU brands (Intel and AMD).   I suppose the Mobo I get will largely depend on the brand of processor I get.  So, in that case, I'll need to know what specific Motherboard model works best for the AMD, and what Model works best for Intel.  Of course, the trick here is that both models being suggested have to have at least one ISA slot.  And, obviously they can't be some pricey board that will run me overbudget.

MEMORY: Type of memory and amount have pretty much been decided.  I'm gonna go for 256 Megs of DDR SDRAM.  But, when I told my friend at school the memory specs, he said (much to my amusement), "Whadd'ya mean, only 256?  Go for 512!  512 sounds like a nice round number when it comes to memory."

ISA SLOTS, ETC.:In response to the question of dumping the SB AWE 64 and getting an SB Live!, well, like I said, I already have an EAX-capable card.  Getting an SBLive! card would be redundant, because then it would not only be like replacing the AWE card, but my XG card as well.

Considering I bought the XG card with my hard-earned cash, I would like to keep using it for as long as possible, otherwise it'd be like I flushed $45 down the toliet.
 
You may think getting a PCI card is redundant...but not very many, if any "good" motherboards have ISA slots anymore.

You have to care about temps....an AMD chip will fry in less than 2 seconds, without a heatsink installed. Many newbies, to computer building, fried their chip, because they wanted to see if the system would turn on...without taking the time in installing the heatsink first

Remember, that Windows 98 only recognizes 512megs of ram. So if you don't plan on going to the Win2000 kernel. you can go ahead in get non-ECC memory. (512megs is kind of the determining point of going ECC) ECC and non-ECC ram don't work together. So if you ever go over 512 megs, and use non ECC Ram, you may experience more lockups. The more ram you have, the more likely something will go wrong, The ECC is a chip that is a Error Control Chip. But ECC memory is slower than non-ECC memory. Guess what I'm trying to say is, if you never upgrade from Win98, you shouldn't have any problems. If you ever go with XP or 2000, and buy more ram....your either need to buy the non ECC memory, and keep your old stick of 512, or your going to have to sell the old non-Ecc memory, and buy a whole new set of ECC memory.

(unless I'm wrong about them not working together.....I think I heard that they don't work together....) Hmm, then again....if I was in that situation....I would just buy the non-ECC type, and gamble with the lock-ups.  

There is another option, in memory choices, called Registered. Registered is the opposite of non-buffered. Registered is another chip, on the stick, that cures memory lock-ups at the cost of speed. Most people just buy the Non-buffered. The only time you would want Registered is if you were running a server. And, ECC....you have to make sure that the motherboard supports it. ECC is recommended, if you have more than 512megs of RAM.


My Dad just informed me that he want's a computer for work....
I think I'm going to buy most of the stuff at Newegg.com.

Total is 1,003.71 American. (includes shipping to Texas)

Soyo K7V Dragon+
1900XP Athlon
(2) IBM 40gig Ultra 100's 7200rpm
Crucial 256DDR PC2100 2.5case Unbuffered Dimm
Teac 3 1/4 Floppy
Plextor 16x10x40x
MS-8855,  MSI G2Ti Pro-T  (a Geforce2 Pro Card)
Vantec CCK-6035D (a copper heatsink with a delta fan)
Microsoft 114key with 10 hot keys
Microsoft Intelli Mouse Optical

I'm buying the case locally, probably 120 dollars or so.
and his company is providing a DSL modem. He's going to need a monitor...I'll buy that locally, too. 300dollars or so. As far as a Soundcard...he doesn't really need one....but the Soyo Dragon comes with a built in 6-channel Sound chip, anyway.

I'm almost tempted in giving him my 1.2 266FSB AThlon w/ MSIk7t-turbo. For this newer setup....He's getting a better price than I did, 8 months ago....and a faster system to boot.
[edited] 65 2001-12-13 05:17
 
On 2001-12-10 22:40, Jari Huttunen wrote:
So, there we are, waiting for new $150+ CPU to be delivered because $10 fan failed. _If_ we are getting replacement CPU at all.

Sure it is better choice in every way... *cough*
Click to expand...

Or just a simple trip to the computer store you bought it at :smile:

But if you have a good fan, it probably won't fail for a few years. And a fan on a P3/4 has just the same chance of failing and taking the system with it. A P4 will usually survive. P3 can, but will die alot of times.
 
Remember, an Athlon might actually survive a dud fan. The big heat failure tests that Toms Hardware did (who I'm inclined to trust on hardware matters) did show the Athlon's going up in smoke in about 2 seconds, but that was when you removed the *heat sink*. They didn't test a fan failure but speculated the Athlon's thermal diode might have been able to deal with that.

I'm just waiting for motherboards with Athlon thermal protection on them anyway. Won't have to wait too long, then my Athlon wouldn't go up in smoke...
 
On 2001-12-13 08:15, ficedula wrote:
The big heat failure tests that Toms Hardware did (who I'm inclined to trust on hardware matters) did show the Athlon's going up in smoke in about 2 seconds, but that was when you removed the *heat sink*.
Click to expand...
I remember watching the video clip for that one.
Amazing how they can throw money down the drain like that.
I wish I could do that.
 
Well I have a secondary config.....probably be better for my Dad, It's not like he's going to use it to play games, right?

Epox EP-8K7A+
MSI TNT2 M64
AMD 1.2 266fsb
Crucial 256 DDR 2100 unbuffered
Teac 1.44 Floppy
IBM 40gig 7200 ultra 100 (two)
Microsoft 114key 10 hotkeys
Micorsoft Intelli-mouse optical
Plextor 16x10x40 (I'll probalby keep it...and give him my Creative4x2x24)
Vantec CCK-603D

Total = 700.83 (includes shipping)
 
If he's not going to be using it for gaming, you do realise you could halve most of those specs, right?
 
I was just looking at the Koolance water cooling system.  Oh man, it looks tempting to buy, but right now I don't have any reason for.  I'm thinking of making my own computer with an AMD Duron, and if I'm going to overclock it then I'm definatelly will buy a water cooling system.  Kinda make it look like a car, heh :grin:.

-vvalentine
 
Water Cooling System?  That sounds like an oxymoron, considering that normally electrical components short-circuit when it comes into contact with water.
 
No; it's a great way for overclockers to keep the temperature down. Mostly because water conducts heat *very* well so it's an efficient way of moving heat away from the CPU.

Essentially you have a pump which pumps water through a pipe system in the PC. The water first goes into a block sitting on top of the CPU, then gets piped into a radiator with a fan on the top (like a hollow heatsink). The advantage is that most of the heat dissipation happens through this heatsink, which isn't on top of the CPU any longer. Water cooling is essentially the best CPU cooling system a home user can get; you can take an Athlon down to not much above room temperature.

Not as cheap as a fan, but you get an awful lot for it.
Dreamcast is water cooled too, IIRC.
 
Wow.  So, I assume there's no condensation that could form on the outside to where it could interfere with the comp hardware?

Also, I don't know if I've asked this before, but what does "IIRC" mean?
 
The water system is totally sealed, as you'd hope! so no liquid can escape and fry your hardware :wink:

Condensation...? Hardly going to form in any PC, water cooling or not.

IIRC, IIRC stands for "If I Recall/Remember Correctly" :smile:
 
If he's not going to be using it for gaming, you do realise you could halve most of those specs, right?
Click to expand...

Umm yeah.....but it's like a guy thing, you know?

Besides:

Duron 800's are going for 35 dollars, but the 266fsb 1.2's are going for 83 dollars. What's 50 bucks these days?

I don't want to skimp on the Heatsink.

I could lose the CDRW for a CD-rom...save about 50 dollars)

I want to use a motherboard, that I know that will work with no problems and Raid is a nice feature to have built in. I could save about 130 dollars going non-Raid. Have to buy an extra Harddrive, and the Raid motherboard is about 20 dollars more. (Can't skimp on the "Motherboard". My conscience just won't let me. I just can't bring myself into putting an unkown, generic, Motherboard in the shopping cart...probably be a 40 dollar savings....and maybe a 10 dollar savings on Sdram...Durons are 200FSB....but I already discussed the price difference on that and a 266FSB 1.2).

I can't figure anyway to save on memory; it's already dirt cheap. I could get a cheaper case; it's about a 50 dollar savings, if I do (currently planning on getting an Antec1030 or 40).

I'm already picking a low end video card for 30 bucks.

I think an 1.2 Athlon DDR system running Raid for less than 1,100 dollars is real good price (still need a case, monitor, and little stuff, like, maybe some speakers and a powerstrip...reason the 400 dollar increase).

He could buy a prebuilt one, complete with printer, monitor and a other extras, cheaper than I could ever build. Of course quality and upgradeablilty are in question if he goes that way. No reason in me making a bottom end computer, if he can just pick up a complete Dell system for 800 dollars.

I could give him this old P200mmx......for nothing......... (but.....I'll miss seeing it :smile:

He won't have any braggin', rights. That's very important among co-workers, you know.

Guess it comes out to be about 300 dollars cheaper for basic system. (Guess I'll just run a price check and show it too him....lets see just how much he want to impress the guys at work.)

---------------------

OH...and water doesn't conduct electricity.....it's the foreign elements inside the water that do. Distilled water won't conduct electricity. Not that it matters in the real world. :wink:
[edited] 65 2001-12-15 02:29
 
On 2001-12-14 21:27, Threesixty wrote:
OH...and water doesn't conduct electricity.....it's the foreign elements inside the water that do. Distilled water won't conduct electricity. Not that it matters in the real world. :wink:
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, I know its not the water itself.  (That's what you get when you've been reading high-school Physics books since 7th grade!  :wink:).

Anyway, not many people would have thought of using distilled water.  While in theory it would work without the danger of short-circuiting the system, impurities like dirt could be on the place where you pour in the water, thereby contaminating the distilled water, bringing you back to square 1 (no, not that Square! :razz:)
 
Gee you learned that in 7th grade?.....I didn't know that until I took Chemistry in College. She even did a demonstration  :cool:

-----------
I hate when I misspell stuff....that's why you see just about all my posts with:

[edited] 65 2001-12-15 07:04
 
No, I didn't learn it in 7th grade, at least not during school hours.  I'm talking about the books I read at home. :D

Now, before you all think I'm some sort of "Steve Urkel" class nerd, I do read other stuff, like the novels "This Present Darkness" and "Piercing the Darkness" by Frank Peretti.
[edited] 239 2001-12-15 23:09
 
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