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It seems that they will use the UT4 engine.
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I've seen this... now I know Luminous is being used on FF XV... But seriously, why did they even waste time with Agni's Philosophy if you aren't going to do anything with the engine you were showing off..........

Square is so damn frustrating.
 
I really don't know very much about game development but isn't part of the reason why other companies can create 2-3 games in the time it takes Square to make one game is because a lot of other developers aren't trying to create an entirely new engine with every entry? So the use of UT4 engine could be an attempt to speed up game development, especially if they are having some issues with Luminous. From what I read about FFXV's development, it is being created during the time in which Luminous is being expanded and optimized. I assume Square Enix wants to start on all of these other projects, but does not want to wait for Luminous and FFXV to be finished.

Also, the focus on the capabilities of Luminous engine, as shown in the highly detailed and technically impressive Agni's Philosophy demos are probably more for investors IMO. As impressive as those demos may be, I wonder how difficult Luminous is to work with, or how close to completion most of its features are. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see any potential FFXV sequels or FF Type series games being made with the Luminous engine later on once its finished, but in the meantime I think Square Enix must think that UT4 is adequate and will allow them to be more timely and cost efficient.

That being said, I hope UT4 does not come with any shortcomings in quality. The FFXIII games, as sub-par as I felt they were, I thought were very polished and technically gorgeous. The Crystal Tools engine seemed to be of a much higher quality than UT3. A lot of games last generation made with UT3 had framerate issues, washed out colors, texture pop-in, and were very glitchy. I don't know how much of that is the engine's fault or the studios who made those games because of a lack of QA testing, but there is a correlation there nonetheless.

If the UT engines are cheaper alternatives to creating your own engines, than another variable that could stand in the way of preconceived notion of UT engine leading to lower quality games might just be that studios who look to save money by using the engine simply don't have Square Enix's budget for their games.

At this point I am talking in circles with myself, but although the news isn't great I'm not getting too worked up over it yet. But my previous experience with games made with UT seem to have only been great in spite of UT, not because of it.
 
I guess they use the UT4 engine for two reasons: It is a very powerful engine which is ready to use and it is designed for crossplatforming. SE would be stupid to only develop it on PS4. But the 'play it first on PS4' means that they aren't.
The good thing is that it makes it easier to mod the game (if they release it on PC).
 
I don't think they have completely dumped the Luminous engine for future games but as I see it is that it is developed simultaneously with FFXV and they had plans to use it as an editor but it turned out to be really complicated to be a game making engine yet since it's not even finished yet.

I think they don't want to repeat the same mistake with developing time for KH3 and FF7R since it's not finished and those are in development right. Saving time and making the games with working and finished tools is a wise thing from SE to do.
 
SE not using the Luminous engine is pretty good news in my opinion, not only for the obvious practical reasons, but for the fact that this probably means the game will truly be its own experience, not just FF15 with a pretty FF7 dress slapped on top of it, which was one of my original worries.

With the costs invested in Luminous, and the costs of producing next gen graphics for large games like FF7, cutting corners will be a constant element of game-development, and one of the easiest ways for them to save money and resources would be to simply use most of the tech and resources they've already developed for 15 with minor edits, instead of designing everything over from scratch.
If they're going for another engine, that probably means they'll have no other choice than to take the harder route, and we're looking at a much broader possibility for the game being drastically different from the other FF games they have produced the last 5 years.
That's a good thing IMO.

One worry that I still have though, in light of the trailer, and in light of development costs, time frame, etc. is that this isn't going to be a conventional remake at all.
The trailer clearly shows a time-skip with two widely different conceptions of Midgard. Add that together with the monologue, and I'm starting to think the game might actually be set post-FF7with the events of FF7 being retold as flash-backs much like the way the Nibelheim incident was told in Calm in the original.
If they opt for such a format, they can save tons of resources and time, because they'll have a really good excuse not to make the world-map (or an 1:1 scale open world equivalent), add the mini-games, or locations not needed to tell the essentials of the original plot.

They could literally have the entire game based in a future Midgard hub-city, have the cast meet up in Tifa's bar or something, and then present just the choice moments of the original story in a chapter-by-chapter based fashion, and eliminate any "dead weight" along the way, such as exploration, chocobo breeding/racing, Kondor and the RTS stuff there, most of the natural "dungeons"(caves, mountain roads etc.), running through the snow and climbing North Crater etc.

I'm not saying I would like them to do this (I definitely wouldn't), but it actually seems really likely at this point granted the trailer, granted the likely release dates (an official Sony advert in Edge Magazine has the game listed as "TBA 2016"), granted production costs and the scope of the original game, and granted that they're apparently doing it from scratch on something other than Luminous.

It's also a great design choice if they wish to also incorporate the scenes and stories from the compilation, or even worse, add them
as DLC. When the narrator(s) is/are done telling us about FF7, he/she/they could, by a prompt, then proceed to tell us about the events of Advent Children, or Crisis Core, or whatever else.
I hope for god's sake they don't go this route, but I have a really bad feeling that this is what we'll end up seeing.

More pwixels and edited colouring I wouldn't call that modding :p but yeah games like this at current gen need no modding at all, I know I wouldn't bother
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*Looks at the FF13 PC port, every single current gen Ubisoft PC title, The Witcher series and a bunch of other titles*

No, modern games need modding just as much as ever, if not more than a decade or two ago - because developers keep pushing out bad and unfinished products to meet unrealistic dead-lines at more and more alarming frequencies.
Modding is not just limited to the kind of up-grades you see here at Qhimm, dealing with attempts to increase visual and audio fidelity, but also bug-fixing, re-balancing and other system-related edits.
 
...

One worry that I still have though, in light of the trailer, and in light of development costs, time frame, etc. is that this isn't going to be a conventional remake at all.
The trailer clearly shows a time-skip with two widely different conceptions of Midgard. Add that together with the monologue, and I'm starting to think the game might actually be set post-FF7with the events of FF7 being retold as flash-backs much like the way the Nibelheim incident was told in Calm in the original.
If they opt for such a format, they can save tons of resources and time, because they'll have a really good excuse not to make the world-map (or an 1:1 scale open world equivalent), add the mini-games, or locations not needed to tell the essentials of the original plot.

They could literally have the entire game based in a future Midgard hub-city, have the cast meet up in Tifa's bar or something, and then present just the choice moments of the original story in a chapter-by-chapter based fashion, and eliminate any "dead weight" along the way, such as exploration, chocobo breeding/racing, Kondor and the RTS stuff there, most of the natural "dungeons"(caves, mountain roads etc.), running through the snow and climbing North Crater etc.

I'm not saying I would like them to do this (I definitely wouldn't), but it actually seems really likely at this point granted the trailer, granted the likely release dates (an official Sony advert in Edge Magazine has the game listed as "TBA 2016"), granted production costs and the scope of the original game, and granted that they're apparently doing it from scratch on something other than Luminous.

It's also a great design choice if they wish to also incorporate the scenes and stories from the compilation, or even worse, add them
as DLC. When the narrator(s) is/are done telling us about FF7, he/she/they could, by a prompt, then proceed to tell us about the events of Advent Children, or Crisis Core, or whatever else.
I hope for god's sake they don't go this route, but I have a really bad feeling that this is what we'll end up seeing.

...
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Are there more trailers? I tried a lazy google attempt but didn't find any. The trailer we got is too vague to be conclusive on this matter, but if it is true then it adds a +1 in my "why I dread a remake" subconsciousness.

EDIT: Basically this would be more like an Advent Children 2 then.
 
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Are there more trailers? I tried a lazy google attempt but didn't find any. The trailer we got is too vague to be conclusive on this matter, but if it is true then it adds a +1 in my "why I dread a remake" subconsciousness.
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No, it's just the one trailer, but I think the trailer is pretty clear if you know what to look for - of course, this assumes that the trailer is representative of what the game will look like, and is not simply a custom made promo trailer that's completely tailored for the announcement and nothing else - which may or may not be the case given SE's propensity for trolling its fans.

But, let me break it down anyways -

1. The video clearly contains two very different conceptions of Midgard.
Several of the first shots of Midgard in daytime shows no signs of the plate.
The buildings are architecturally speaking vastly different from the original Midgard, but also vastly different from the later shots of Midgard in the same trailer. The skyscrapers seen in the day-time shot, are shown to reach all the way down to ground level in the evening shot over the playground.
The day-time Midgard literally makes no sense with the architecture and design of the original Migard - yet, the later night-time shots shows a Midgard that is almost shot-by-shot true to the original, although most people didn't notice it seems.

Let's take a closer look though -
The night-time shots begin, and you then have a scene that clearly shows the slum under the plate, near the foot of the support-structure holding it up.
1BBupE2.png


The place I outline is clearly one of the support beams of the plate, maybe even the very place where Cloud and Co fights Reno for the first time.

The shot at about 0.50 seconds in, clearly shows the old Midgard in a panorama view - it's the Shinra HQ - Just compare these two shots for reference.
uhcqMmy.png

Final%20Fantasy%20VII-Midgard.jpg


In the night-time shots, there are no signs of the modern skyscrapers reaching down to the ground level, not among the buildings in the sectors,
nor surrounding the Shinra building. The night-time Midgard is clearly the original Midgard - the daytime shots are clearly not.

For reference

LmDspUI.png


5z341rA.png


If these scenes were supposed to be in the same Midgard as the one being shows in the night-time scenes, then these building, or ones similar to them, should be visible in the shot of the Shinra Building, since the Shinra building is atop the plate, as these would have to be too, seeing as we can see the Sky above them.
Yet in the shot of the Shinra building, at 0.50, the building atop the plate, are decidedly in tune with the architecture of the building atop the plate from the original game, with no signs of modern glass and steel Skyscrapers or anything even remotely similar.

These two Midgards are not the same. That much, I would say, is patently obvious. I might be wrong, but it seems more likely I am right.

2. The trailer shows two different trains - The first one, a modern train similar to the ones you find circling Tokyo, with an information map referencing (South) Edge, a town that didn't exist in the original game, nor makes sense with the lore considering that the places in the original Midgard no longer had names, and were referred to only as "sectors".
The second one, you see in the background of the playground, is the original train from the intro of FF7 (yeah).
This latter train, as you all probably remember, ran from the bottom of the plate to the top of it, running by the reactors. There is literally no reason why you'd have both at the same time.

Add this two points together, and then add in the point about production time, costs, and the convenient way in which it will allow Nomura to tell pretty much the entire story, and even include the compilation with relative ease, I think it's a pretty decent theory.

EDIT: Basically this would be more like an Advent Children 2 then.
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Yep...
 
Sounds like it could be true. I did scratch my head when I saw those skyscrapers, thinking where it could possibly be. I haven't done any theory crafting on it, just assumed a stylistic change. But, then again, those skyscrapers, as I see it, have to be in proximity to Shinra HQ (if not a new city?). They're clearly not there in the night time shots. What else to believe than post-meteor Midgard?

Regarding post-meteor Midgard: Given the FF7 ending, I always assumed humanity did not survive (returned to the planet if you will). Now AC clearly debunked that. Still, I kinda think that was one of the possible interpretations the original authors wanted.
 
Sounds like it could be true. I did scratch my head when I saw those skyscrapers, thinking where it could possibly be. I haven't done any theory crafting on it, just assumed a stylistic change. But, then again, those skyscrapers, as I see it, have to be in proximity to Shinra HQ (if not a new city?). They're clearly not there in the night time shots. What else to believe than post-meteor Midgard?
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To be fair, there are at least two common criticisms of this theory, both found in the trailer analysis article on thelifestream.net
I don't find either of them particularly convincing though.

The first one tries to make the argument that because the daytime shots clearly show Mako pipelines it can't be set in the future, because
the reactors were no longer active after the events of the original.
This is nonsensical though, since even after the fall of the meteor, it would still require less job and be more sensible to work around the original
architecture, rather than dismantle everything that no longer worked after that event. The pipelines are huge, as are the reactors, so it would take a very long time before all traces of the original infrastructure would be entirely gone. And this doesn't even go into the possibility of the pipe-lines being used for other types of energy, like gass, oil, or as a protective structure covering electrical cables.

The second criticism is about the train and the reference to Edge. It rightfully points out that the first train-station of the original game was named "North Edge Station", but the sign with the name wasn't readable due to low resolutions in the original PSX version.
I still think this is a stretch because
A.) it conflicts with the narrative, and where the art and the narrative conflicts, I think the narrative takes precedence - besides it's perfectly
possible that this detail was a remnant of a design choice that was made before the plot of the game was entirely finalized, but simply
not edited or removed because nobody could make it out in the original anyway.
B.) Since the trailer is entirely pre-rendered, everything about it is carefully planned. No scene in this trailer is there by accident.
While a discrepancy like the station name in the original and it's conflict with Jessie's (or was it Barret's?) statement about the towns
no longer having names (and all the other stations being referred to simply by reference to their specific place and sector) in the game is
understandable because games are made by large teams in often very organic ways, a completely pre-rendered cinematic trailer for a grand
reveal at a conference is not.
If the trailer dwells purposefully on the name "South Edge", that is to give the viewer a specific hint - not just some inconsequential piece of
random information referring to some random Reactor train-station.

The train criticism makes even less sense when you consider that in the original, the train that went to "North Edge"(and therefore also presumably "South Edge") was the train you see later in the trailer passing the park, not the modern one you see in the beginning of the trailer.

Regarding post-meteor Midgard: Given the FF7 ending, I always assumed humanity did not survive (returned to the planet if you will). Now AC clearly debunked that. Still, I kinda think that was one of the possible interpretations the original authors wanted.
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I always took the ending to mean, not necessarily that humanity didn't survive, but that they abandoned Midgard - which would make perfect sense.
Midgard was a huge metropolis built and designed specifically to function through the use of the Mako reactors. The entire infrastructure of
the city is founded on, and dependent on the Mako Reactors.
Once Mako stops flowing the entire city breaks down, and when you consider the infrastructure and the building density of Midgard, there simply is no feasible way to power the city anymore (unless you could replace each Mako Reactor with a Nuclear Reactor or something to that effect).
This literally means that after the fall of the meteor, Midgard would be a huge, immobile, powerless and lifeless piece of metal.
The logical thing to do for everyone at that point, would be to migrate back to the country-side, to towns such as Calm or Nibelheim etc. not waste time trying to live in a place where nothing grows at the moment, in houses in a city covered by pollution that has no electricity, and by extension, probably no running water.

AC/DoC shat all over the logic of the ending of FF7. That's one of the big reason I hated the movie and that game. No, people did not stick around in Midgard. It doesn't make sense, and it completely ruins the sense of the scene with Nanaki and his kids.
I mean, how many hundred years in the future would that have to be, if the events of AC/DoC are to be canon?

Although I'm pretty much out of hope for the remake now, I just wished they'd sink the compilation material to the bottom of the sea, ignore it
and remake the game by sticking as close to the original story as possible. I just don't see that happening anymore.
 
Wishful thinking:
Maybe the daylight shots are from the ending, after meteor, in a new, re-built Midgard.

I don't like to speculate like this, but I kinda agree with you. Post-meteor Midgar makes most sense.

I always took the ending to mean, not necessarily that humanity didn't survive, but that they abandoned Midgard - which would make perfect sense.
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This too I had in mind. To be fair, people staying in Midgard kinda is in character, and stays "true" to what Cloud said on the train in the beginning of the game. Thats why I favored the "everyone is dead" ending. But, shrug... The important thing, imo, was that the ending was open for interpretation. I like that kind of shit.

Although I'm pretty much out of hope for the remake now, I just wished they'd sink the compilation material to the bottom of the sea, ignore it
and remake the game by sticking as close to the original story as possible. I just don't see that happening anymore.
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A reboot/reimagining of FF7 is what I hope for. Not a continuation of the trainwreck FF7 expanded universe. I saw a video on youtube just some hours ago ("top 5 I want to see in FF7R" or something like that) where the guy talking wanted the CC characters in the remake... The horror... I have also seen this in other channels/forums/etc. "I hope they bring X character in", "I hope they continue into the AC story"... Now, I don't mind new characters/storyline as long as it's done good (whatever that is lol). Most of the expanded universe characters though have a certain fecapalm-otaku appeal value to them that I'm sick of. Does that make sense?

Some things to fix from the top of my head:
Cait Sith. Dat effin bastard. I wouldn't mind it that much if IT actually died in the temple of the Ancients, and did not return. Ever. Reeve could get other means to communicate with Cloud & co.

Many cut-scenes after Midgard could use some more meat. At certain points in the game the cutscene vs gameplay ratio is a bit off imo.

Yuffie's side story feels like fanservice. The turks and the don is too conveniently there. Not terrible by any means, but could also be done a lot better.

If only I had control over the remake  :evil:
 
I actually had an idea around how to influence Square Enix to make the remake in the way the fans would want them to.

The basic idea is a "pledge" website where fans pool their money to voice their opinions and pledge their money to SE if they design the remake according to their desires. For most practical purposes, the fan's money is not just a donation to SE, it's basically used to buy the game. The website is owned by an organization that acts as mediator between the fans and SE. If SE makes the game according to how the fans want it, they get the money (and the fans get the FF7R game), otherwise the fans get their money back, and possibly pledge not to buy the game or give SE any money.

Actually it's more complex than this; fans can divide their money according to different features, instead of all-or-nothing; SE might have an agreement with the mediating company to give fans a discount on the game; there needs to be specific criteria to determine if the fans got what they wanted; and lots of other logistical challenges. But, this could radically change the way remakes are done, in general, for all art forms (games, movies, etc.).

A couple of other problems I see with this are: (1) the remaker has more incentive to satisfy as many fans as possible to get the most money, which might actually not be a good thing, but then again they can always choose to design for a smaller crowd and be more special that way; (2) people with more money will have more influence, which isn't necessarily fair, although the fans will tend to be older and make more money, so this tends to be biased towards older fans, which is a good thing, for the older fans. (3) the fan's pledges and opinions need to be collected very early during development, early enough to actually be able to influence how SE makes the game. (4) Lots of other logistical challenges like this...

Anyway... Anyone wanna help me build this company and website? ;) there's lots of other cool ideas related to this, like a system that's smart and continually learns about which different aspects of the game fans are interested in, etc.
 
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Wishful thinking:
Maybe the daylight shots are from the ending, after meteor, in a new, re-built Midgard.

I don't like to speculate like this, but I kinda agree with you. Post-meteor Midgar makes most sense.
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Yeah. It's just kinda sad that a rebuilt post-Midgard makes little to no sense with the original narrative - not only due to practical concerns,
and the Nanaki scene at the end of the original game, but because even if it were to happen it would not happen while the cast
was still young, or perhaps even alive. Rebuilding the wreck of Midgard without proper power, after the impact of the meteor would take decades at least.


A reboot/reimagining of FF7 is what I hope for. Not a continuation of the trainwreck FF7 expanded universe. I saw a video on youtube just some hours ago ("top 5 I want to see in FF7R" or something like that) where the guy talking wanted the CC characters in the remake... The horror... I have also seen this in other channels/forums/etc. "I hope they bring X character in", "I hope they continue into the AC story"... Now, I don't mind new characters/storyline as long as it's done good (whatever that is lol). Most of the expanded universe characters though have a certain fecapalm-otaku appeal value to them that I'm sick of. Does that make sense?
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I think you makee perfect sense. The extended universe products were all made without the same team as the original game, and they were
made much the same way as fan-fiction - not with regards for what would make sense with the original narrative, but with the intent of satisfying delirious fan expectations and desires. It's essentially glorified fan-fiction rendered into canon by having the label attached to it.

Non of the spin-off products make sense in and of themselves. They butchered the art-style of the original, and the added multiple new and needless layers of contrived BS and plot-holes.

The correct way to address that in a remake is obviously not to go way out of your way to force these products to make sense together,
which will invariably necessitate more contrived and ridiculous plot-bending, but to ditch them all together and treat the remake as an entirely new and stand-alone product. Tie-ins make even less sense from a marketing perspective, since a lot of the new potential players of the remake won't have played the spin-offs and therefore won't understand and get confused by the tie-ins unless they are self-contained and self-explanatory - which they probably won't be given time and resource limitations.

Some things to fix from the top of my head:
Cait Sith. Dat effin bastard. I wouldn't mind it that much if IT actually died in the temple of the Ancients, and did not return. Ever. Reeve could get other means to communicate with Cloud & co.

Many cut-scenes after Midgard could use some more meat. At certain points in the game the cutscene vs gameplay ratio is a bit off imo.

Yuffie's side story feels like fanservice. The turks and the don is too conveniently there. Not terrible by any means, but could also be done a lot better.

If only I had control over the remake  :evil:
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There's a lot of stuff you could "fix" in FF7, but non of it necessary in a sense - and all of it a potential disaster.

Enter anti-SE rant-mode -

People seem to forget that FF7 was essentially a silly 90's anime game.
Half of the plot was absurd - such as the entire Shinra HQ infiltration, which is hilariously weird. Or Cloud and Co sneaking across the ocean in the Shinra Boat, where the crew ended up being massacred by Jenova, yet walking off the boat all casual-like with no consequences what so ever.
Or Rufus going out of his way to commandeer the Tiny Bronco, a tiny, personal air-craft that serves no purpose to Rufus what so ever that can't be covered by the fleet of cargo helicopters stationed at Junon, or an Airship.

Point is that, most of the time, nobody cared about these scenes, or even noticed how absurd they were - because guess what? The entire game is pretty far out there, and you're invited to relish in the camp and the sheer joy of the experience rather than waste time nit-picking details pertaining to universe-logic etc. which essentially bear no real impact on the important notes of the plot to begin with (which would be Cloud's existential journey, and the themes dealing with loss and human's relationship with the planet).

It's an ephemeral and visceral experience, more so than a realistic, and logical one.
It's a story portrayed in glorious "I'm high on LSD"-like graphics with unnatural and impossible architecture, super-saturated color-palette, with weird and nonsensical characters fighting weird and nonsensical enemies (like a house morphing into a killer robot, or a giant revolver firing rockets). FF7 did not give to fvcks about anything or anyone. It was a trip, and it was a trippy one at that.

The compilation, and the remake (judging by the art-style) is fundamentally incongruent with the original, and that's why they all end up feeling really, really weird and bad. The style and narrative of FF7 was never intended to make sense in the way that we demand realistic/semi-realistically styled media to be.
It essentially flew under the radar in the same way that children's cartoons, and fairy-tales do. Remove that, and then suddenly all the absurdities became readily apparent and jarring as hell.
The more you try to make sense of it, the more contrived and corny it becomes, which is why all the spin-offs (and most likely the remake) end up feeling stupid, contrived and melodramatic.

FF7 is not, and never will be realistic, nor a logically coherent game. Trying to make it into such, instead of simply embracing the fact that it isn't and running with it, invites more and more issues down the road in production.

This is another reason I am so apprehensive of the remake - I don't think Nomura, Nojima and Kitase get this anymore. In fact, I think this ephemeral, fairy-tale quality to FF games was solely the result of the creative out-put of Sakagachi, because you still see it present in his post-Squaresoft games, yet non of it in SE FF games.
Nomura, Kitase, Nojima and the rest of the major FF creators in SE, have their heads too far up their own narcissistic asses to see that the stuff they design just reeks of bad fan-fiction.
The stuff they now design, is the game-development and artistic equivalence of the user-names that early teens pick for their characters in their first MMOs because they think it's "kewl" (XxOneWingedUchihaSasukexX etc. and similar manure).

Camp and childish fairy-tale elements was the saving grace of FF, and it always has been - because it's still a fact that most people who write and do creative design for games are immature and amateurish in the grander scheme of writing, musical composition, and visual design.
Accept that fact and embracing it leads to quality camp which is good in its own right. Not accepting and embracing that leads to pretentious post-Matrix BS.

No Nojima, you are no Shakespear, and no Nomura, you are no Leonardo Da Vinci and no everyone, FF7 is not the video-game equivalence of Citizen Kane.
If anything, FF7 is the video-game equivalence of the original Star Wars, and the reason the spin-offs suck are the same the reasons the Star Wars prequels suck in comparison to the original trilogy.

Rant over.

Seriously though - If I had creative control over this game, the first thing I'd do is have the entire game stylized using a cell-shaded graphical solution keeping 100% true to the style of the original, finished cast drawings. Then I'd throw all the compilation stuff in the garbage.
By doing that, I'd literally solve pretty much every stylistic and plot-related problem that could ever possibly manifest itself from the very get-go.

Seriously though - fvck you SE for going with that quasi photo-realistic style which will inevitably lead to you butchering most of the memorable moments and scenes of the game in favor of post mid-2000's melodramatic and cringe-worthy cinematography and writing.
GG.

I actually had an idea around how to influence Square Enix to make the remake in the way the fans would want them to.

The basic idea is a "pledge" website where fans pool their money to voice their opinions and pledge their money to SE if they design the remake according to their desires. For most practical purposes, the fan's money is not just a donation to SE, it's basically used to buy the game. The website is owned by an organization that acts as mediator between the fans and SE. If SE makes the game according to how the fans want it, they get the money (and the fans get the FF7R game), otherwise the fans get their money back, and possibly pledge not to buy the game or give SE any money.

Actually it's more complex than this; fans can divide their money according to different features, instead of all-or-nothing; SE might have an agreement with the mediating company to give fans a discount on the game; there needs to be specific criteria to determine if the fans got what they wanted; and lots of other logistical challenges. But, this could radically change the way remakes are done, in general, for all art forms (games, movies, etc.).

A couple of other problems I see with this are: (1) the remaker has more incentive to satisfy as many fans as possible to get the most money, which might actually not be a good thing, but then again they can always choose to design for a smaller crowd and be more special that way; (2) people with more money will have more influence, which isn't necessarily fair, although the fans will tend to be older and make more money, so this tends to be biased towards older fans, which is a good thing, for the older fans. (3) the fan's pledges and opinions need to be collected very early during development, early enough to actually be able to influence how SE makes the game. (4) Lots of other logistical challenges like this...

Anyway... Anyone wanna help me build this company and website? ;) there's lots of other cool ideas related to this, like a system that's smart and continually learns about which different aspects of the game fans are interested in, etc.
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That's probably not going to work. Firstly, you'd have to convince SE to play on board with this, and that's just not going to happen for more reasons than I care to elaborate on here.

Secondly, the majority of the people who'll end up buying this game, won't be original fans - certainly not purist fans of the original title.
SE will not change game-play- or story-design choices based on a small, albeit paying group of people when they have a marketing and research department telling them what design-choices the ought to go with to appeal to a wider audience to begin with.

Your idea assumes that the group of people who happen to stumble across your site, and make pledges on it will be a significant and representative enough group for it to be a group worth listening to - and that assumption is very difficult to justify, especially
in relation to a game like a complete HD remake of FF7.
The production costs of such a game is going to demand Call of Duty/GTA/Witcher level sales in order to justify its production at all.
How ever do you plan to make it so that the people drawn to your site will represent the advocates for changes that will steer the game in the direction of attaining such sales?
What makes you think SE will trust the opinions of these people on your site, more so than their own research department?
 
You're exactly right, it would need to be a substantially large number of people. But if such a large number of people did participate, why would SE not listen? What if we had more pledges than Amazon had pre-orders?

Also I think you might be underestimating the size of the original fan base. And the people most likely to have strong opinions will be the fans that played the original.

Also there is a third option. If option 1 is SE makes it for the new generation, and option 2 is SE makes it for the original fan generation, and if option 2 seems hopeless, then option 3 is that SE designs it such that you can do either/both, e.g. active vs. turn based.

If nothing else, at least it's an extra data point for SE's R&D, and the fans can at least say they tried.

But you're right, it would need to basically be huge to make a difference. It would be not just collecting a few pledges, but more like trying to represent the majority of the original fan base.
 
By the way, you're dead on target with your anti SE rant above. I wouldn't actually call it a rant. Most of it seemed to be simply about how the style of the original FF7 (cartoony, campy, silly) just would not work in a "realistic" style game.

To add on top of that, I would say that no matter how SE made the remake, even if it was EXACTLY how YOU (anyone here reading this) wanted it, it would still not have the same impact as the original. You can't repeat a "first time experience". There's no element of surprise.

That's why I'm actually in favor of a complete remake. I can play the original any time I want. I can use mods to improve the graphics and such. Given the choice between two nearly identical FF7's, vs having the original AND a remake, I say go with the latter. At least we'll have the opportunity to experience something new and fresh. And it will be really cool to see how they design the game mechanics and such.

One last thought. Should the oldest, most hard core fans always get their way? If you take this idea to the extreme, we shouldn't play any console games at all. We should go back to text based adventure games like Zork. (Which I loved, by the way!)
 
To add on top of that, I would say that no matter how SE made the remake, even if it was EXACTLY how YOU (anyone here reading this) wanted it, it would still not have the same impact as the original. You can't repeat a "first time experience". There's no element of surprise.
Click to expand...
Speaking of rants, I guess I'll join with one now (warning, my first attempt at editing this post before submitting it seems that my fatigue has gotten the better of me, and I'm currently correcting random errors everywhere):

I'm not so sure it's necessary to put so much stock in the "first time experience". Speaking from my personal opinion, I have had times where my first experience with something was not pleasant. Be it food, media, or an activity (loss of virginity comes to mind due to my immature sense of humor), there are many experiences that are not at first pleasant, and instead of becoming even worse with repeated exposures, actually became more pleasant over time.

For me and FF7 specifically, my first experience was wonderful, but I was young and did not remember all of it or understand all of it clearly. My subsequent revisits to the game have only convinced me of its quality and inherent value despite the flaws I can easily spot with the wisdom I've acquired with age. With as many things I critique about the game, I also find aspects that I appreciate, and it is in my opinion that my opinion will not worsen.

I have found that for these reasons, spoilers have little effect on me. I used to be worried when people talk about something that I have not watched, but I found that media that I find to be of quality and value still retain it even though I may not be surprised. As long as the surprises make sense, are consistent with the rest of the story, or are interesting in some facet, I still have appreciation for them despite knowing they are coming. In fact, my brother told me that Aerith gets killed by Sephiroth before I reached that part of the game, and not being able to stop it even knowing that it was coming only deepened my connection to Cloud in feeling that I was helpless in stopping it.

All in all, I feel that surprise and "first time experience" are shallow and possibly irrelevant considerations in evaluating one's own enjoyment from something. Surprise to me, is just the phenomena of experiencing something unexpected, which in itself is just experiencing something new. Everything is new to someone and will not be after it is experienced and therefore I do not think it is worth talking about. Some people may seek surprise and consider it a valuable part of an experience, but I personally do not./ End rant

I think when it comes to campy vs. realistic and all that, the most important thing to preserving immersion to me is consistency. The weird aspects of FF7 work because they happen consistently throughout the story, and feel like they are apart of the world and the story no matter how absurd they would be in real life. Where realism interferes is that if they eliminate all of these moments save for a few iconic ones, it will be jarring with the rest of the story. I don't think the graphics or the art-style really have much to do with it, as long as it is consistent. A super realistic design choice that is consistently weird and abstract would be an interesting contrast and by no means bad (Metal Gear Solid comes to mind). But if FF7 is suddenly Ghost Recon (assuming it is realistic, I've never played it), but suddenly still has a moment or two of Cloud crossdressing or Scottish Cat Toys talking and nothing else, it will seem like the game has no identity or is keeping them simply to please fans. If FF7 wants to be super gritty and realistic, but also be weird, it needs to be both from start to finish. Any prolonged seriousness will cause the game to seem conflicted in its direction rather that consistent and yet contrasting.

@hian: I sincerely hope your theory is incorrect, as that would, for me, be the absolute worst case scenario and the biggest possible stretch of the term "remake". Aside from an occasional easter egg, any compilation material is completely unwarranted and unwanted. As you have stated, anything that cannot be internally explained and resolved within the game itself would only be a detriment to the goal of attracting new fans, and obviously does nothing to please old fans. The structure of narrative, and the ability to experience it without the restrictions of flashbacks are absolutely crucial to preserving any "magic" from the original game, and I'm not sure if anyone could really be foolish enough to not see that.
 
@picklejar
Very hard to pull off. Not only do you need a vast amount of people (in the houndreds of thousands?), but those people have to agree on most of the things and contribute A LOT of money to actually make it not profitable for SE not to listen. I'm not saying it is impossible. They way I'm guessing SE makes their hard choices gravitates around pleasing the shareholders, investors, etc. The passionate and talented developers always have to sacrifice their talent to some degree here.

In other words: SE's top have to show that they have to listen to this website to their investors, shareholders, etc., in order for the top brass to give their blessing to the developers. And I bet that takes A LOT of £$¥€ to get their attention.
 
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