S
Sukaeto
Guest
The only thing is, Aeris is 22 years old. That means Gast had to have left Shinra at least 22 years before FF7 starts.
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C
Contra
Guest
*nods* I labeled the list 'LEADING UP TO AND AROUND 15 YEARS AGO' I probably should have made that more clear. It's end is years ago, it begins a sopmewhat indefinate length before that... BTW, How old do you think Aeris was when she arrived in Midgar? That will help me make this clearer.. and I'm simply not sure. =/
T
Threesixty
Guest
http://rpgpalace.gamersuplink.com/games/ff7/script/ff7disc2.txt
The tapes are near the top...if you read them:
The Daughter records always confused, me. The naming of Aeris....IF it's a girl she'll be named Aeris that's that....
10 days after birth.....I think it should have been read 10 days after conception....or 10 days, before birth...
Then, Hojo waited 2 years...for this new sample, Aeris? but the tape is labled 20 days after birth. Aeris seems to be already born in this tape, though. But the counterdiction lies in the 2 years or 20 days....
I think it's 20 days....so Aeris is about 3 weeks old when Hojo takes her and Ifalna. I don't think they escaped....Hojo took them to Shinra Headquarters, and later they made the escape to the lower sections....
Aeris is about 7 or 8 years old when she is taken in by Elmyra
quote:
Elmyra
"Aerith is an Ancient. The sole survivor."
Barret
"...What did you say? But, aren't you her mother?"
Elmyra
"...Not her real mother. Oh... it must have been 15 years ago..."
"...during the war. My husband was sent to the front. Some far
away place called Wutai."
http://rpgpalace.gamersuplink.com/games/ff7/script/ff7disc1.txt
Proof of Escape from Shinra:
"Aerith and I became close very quickly. That child loved to
talk. She used to talk to me about everything."
(We are back at the living room, but some time past. Aerith as a young
girl runs down the stairs, then trips on the rug. Elmyra rises from the
table, helps her up, hugs her, then Aerith scampers out the front door.
The living room disappears off the top of the screen.)
"She told me she escaped form some sort of research laboratory
somewhere. And that her mother had already returned to the planet, so she
wasn't lonely... and many other things."
The tapes are near the top...if you read them:
The Daughter records always confused, me. The naming of Aeris....IF it's a girl she'll be named Aeris that's that....
10 days after birth.....I think it should have been read 10 days after conception....or 10 days, before birth...
Then, Hojo waited 2 years...for this new sample, Aeris? but the tape is labled 20 days after birth. Aeris seems to be already born in this tape, though. But the counterdiction lies in the 2 years or 20 days....
I think it's 20 days....so Aeris is about 3 weeks old when Hojo takes her and Ifalna. I don't think they escaped....Hojo took them to Shinra Headquarters, and later they made the escape to the lower sections....
Aeris is about 7 or 8 years old when she is taken in by Elmyra
quote:
Elmyra
"Aerith is an Ancient. The sole survivor."
Barret
"...What did you say? But, aren't you her mother?"
Elmyra
"...Not her real mother. Oh... it must have been 15 years ago..."
"...during the war. My husband was sent to the front. Some far
away place called Wutai."
http://rpgpalace.gamersuplink.com/games/ff7/script/ff7disc1.txt
Proof of Escape from Shinra:
"Aerith and I became close very quickly. That child loved to
talk. She used to talk to me about everything."
(We are back at the living room, but some time past. Aerith as a young
girl runs down the stairs, then trips on the rug. Elmyra rises from the
table, helps her up, hugs her, then Aerith scampers out the front door.
The living room disappears off the top of the screen.)
"She told me she escaped form some sort of research laboratory
somewhere. And that her mother had already returned to the planet, so she
wasn't lonely... and many other things."
C
Contra
Guest
Yeah.. this whole storyline, while amazing, is a bit of a bitch to understand... I think it should all be written up once we figure it out.
To save other people from making this same discussion.
To save other people from making this same discussion.
S
Simon
Guest
sorry im writing this reply whilst being extremley tired and not having played the game for about 5 months so forgive me if im a little off, but here are my points:
1) Jenova is an alien that crashed intpo the planet 10,000 years ago or whenever hence the northern crater
2)Hojo injected himself with jenova cells took lucrecia to a nightclub, took her home then raped her, hence sephiroth was born.
3)Sephiroth was thrown into the mako type stuff by cloud and was sucked thru to the center of the planet and stayed there ever since.
4)Using his mind and the power of jenova he created the illusion he was causing havoc accross the planet.
5)Cloud could fly because the jenova cells inside him were made active.
6)sephiroth had the power to create illusions using jenova, hence he showed nibleheim being burned and when u fight him at the end the planets are not really destroyed.
7)Spehiroth is the only ever person to be born with jenova cells as part of the natural DNA due to hojo being a spanner.
8)The Weapons were created by the planet to destroy everything. why? To guarentee to get rid of all evil.
9)I beleive all humans are extinct after the 500 yrs at the end. why? because bugen said its up to the planet to decide. It would make sense to me to kill of the humans with their life sucking technologies. Also if they were still alive why7 would Midgar be left like that? ie, not knocked down or anything.
10)the laughter at the end is Red XIII children. How did he get them when he was the last in his species? god knows
1) Jenova is an alien that crashed intpo the planet 10,000 years ago or whenever hence the northern crater
2)Hojo injected himself with jenova cells took lucrecia to a nightclub, took her home then raped her, hence sephiroth was born.
3)Sephiroth was thrown into the mako type stuff by cloud and was sucked thru to the center of the planet and stayed there ever since.
4)Using his mind and the power of jenova he created the illusion he was causing havoc accross the planet.
5)Cloud could fly because the jenova cells inside him were made active.
6)sephiroth had the power to create illusions using jenova, hence he showed nibleheim being burned and when u fight him at the end the planets are not really destroyed.
7)Spehiroth is the only ever person to be born with jenova cells as part of the natural DNA due to hojo being a spanner.
8)The Weapons were created by the planet to destroy everything. why? To guarentee to get rid of all evil.
9)I beleive all humans are extinct after the 500 yrs at the end. why? because bugen said its up to the planet to decide. It would make sense to me to kill of the humans with their life sucking technologies. Also if they were still alive why7 would Midgar be left like that? ie, not knocked down or anything.
10)the laughter at the end is Red XIII children. How did he get them when he was the last in his species? god knows
C
Contra
Guest
Well, sphiroth was exparamented on while he was in the Womb. I don't think Hojo had exparamented on himself yet.
I simply thought Midgar had been abandoned by man and overgrown..
And lastly... Yeah? How the hell did Red XIII have a kid? Obviously, they must find more of his kind somewhaere along the line. Either that, or... Nanaki is Female, and was already impregnated, and the species has a MAJOR Gestation period... But that isn't true, because while Hojo's an ass, he isn't dumb enough to try to mate two females.
I wish I could get on the staff for VII-2. I have a whole sequel made up... In my head...
I simply thought Midgar had been abandoned by man and overgrown..
And lastly... Yeah? How the hell did Red XIII have a kid? Obviously, they must find more of his kind somewhaere along the line. Either that, or... Nanaki is Female, and was already impregnated, and the species has a MAJOR Gestation period... But that isn't true, because while Hojo's an ass, he isn't dumb enough to try to mate two females.
I wish I could get on the staff for VII-2. I have a whole sequel made up... In my head...
L
Lieron
Guest
maybe hojo took lucrecia to the HoneyBee Inn lol
S
Sinister Heaven
Guest
People, people... Let's set this straight, please.
Hojo and Lucrecia got cozy together, and after that he infused the womb with Jenova cells... Thus Sephiroth was born, and het got a tattoo of number ONE on his hand... The game clearly states that numerous times.
Cloud throws Sephiroth in the Lifestream, 16 years later in the Nibelheim reactor. Where does the Lifestream end up? The Northern Crater, where the Earth's most powerful source of energy is. Logically, this is also the place where the WEAPONs reside.
Sephiroth is crystallised here, just like any mako energy that reaches the surface, and he is sort of a fossile at that moment. He has Jenova's head with him; he took that from the reactor.
Following the Reunion Theory, Jenova's body woke up, and started moving towards the Northern Crater to get her head back. All other parts of her started moving as well at that moment. Why at that moment? I think Bugenhagen states that; thanks to the cries of the planet. Jenova did not cause that. Shinra did.
Anyway, to get Sephiroth back to life, the person who would follow out her task, and to summon meteor, she needs the black materia. That is why Jenova takes the shape of Sephiroth to manipulate Cloud, the only succeeded 'clone' still in power of thinking at a normal level... His head filled with confusion, maybe because of the Jenova cells, and maybe Jenova even manipulated him in thinking all that stuff about himself.
Jenova lured Cloud along, but did not expect an Ancient to be with him. Which is why she tried to get Cloud to kill her. When he did not, she did it herself, in Sephiroth's form.
Sephiroth awakens when Cloud gives the Black Materia to him: The Materia that reverses creation: It turned the crystal effect on Sephiroth BACKWARDS, causing him to revive.
In the end, when fighting Bizarro Sephiroth, you can clearly see two arms moving over Sephiroth when he moves... Like somebody plays him... As a puppet. These are obviously Jenova's tentacles.
Jenova is the true evil, Sephiroth was just abused, Cloud was abused, everybody was manipulated in her schemes... The only one that gave a twist to it was Hojo, who gave Sephiroth enough power to outlive Jenova and build out his own scheme...
Because when Safer Sephiroth is beaten, Cloud faces the REAL Sephiroth... An easy opponent, because he probably still is at the level 50 he was during the flashback...
I hope I didn't miss anything important. if I did, let me know.
Hojo and Lucrecia got cozy together, and after that he infused the womb with Jenova cells... Thus Sephiroth was born, and het got a tattoo of number ONE on his hand... The game clearly states that numerous times.
Cloud throws Sephiroth in the Lifestream, 16 years later in the Nibelheim reactor. Where does the Lifestream end up? The Northern Crater, where the Earth's most powerful source of energy is. Logically, this is also the place where the WEAPONs reside.
Sephiroth is crystallised here, just like any mako energy that reaches the surface, and he is sort of a fossile at that moment. He has Jenova's head with him; he took that from the reactor.
Following the Reunion Theory, Jenova's body woke up, and started moving towards the Northern Crater to get her head back. All other parts of her started moving as well at that moment. Why at that moment? I think Bugenhagen states that; thanks to the cries of the planet. Jenova did not cause that. Shinra did.
Anyway, to get Sephiroth back to life, the person who would follow out her task, and to summon meteor, she needs the black materia. That is why Jenova takes the shape of Sephiroth to manipulate Cloud, the only succeeded 'clone' still in power of thinking at a normal level... His head filled with confusion, maybe because of the Jenova cells, and maybe Jenova even manipulated him in thinking all that stuff about himself.
Jenova lured Cloud along, but did not expect an Ancient to be with him. Which is why she tried to get Cloud to kill her. When he did not, she did it herself, in Sephiroth's form.
Sephiroth awakens when Cloud gives the Black Materia to him: The Materia that reverses creation: It turned the crystal effect on Sephiroth BACKWARDS, causing him to revive.
In the end, when fighting Bizarro Sephiroth, you can clearly see two arms moving over Sephiroth when he moves... Like somebody plays him... As a puppet. These are obviously Jenova's tentacles.
Jenova is the true evil, Sephiroth was just abused, Cloud was abused, everybody was manipulated in her schemes... The only one that gave a twist to it was Hojo, who gave Sephiroth enough power to outlive Jenova and build out his own scheme...
Because when Safer Sephiroth is beaten, Cloud faces the REAL Sephiroth... An easy opponent, because he probably still is at the level 50 he was during the flashback...
I hope I didn't miss anything important. if I did, let me know.
C
Contra
Guest
Heh, in all actuality, that Sephiroth has 0 HP. If you use Game Shark or something to get an enemy skill materia in that fight, with the skill ???? and use it, it will do 0 damage... and kill him.
But I agree, Sephiroth was an innocent. The only true evil force in FF7 was Jenova, and Jenova controlled them all. However. I don't think Jenova took Sephiroth's form, just controlled him, neither do I think that Jenova ever communicated directly with Cloud.. that whole white flash/red flash thing.. they are all Sephiroth.
On another note.. this is a dead post. Don't revive anything that hasn't been replied to in over a week, unless it is stickied.
~Contra~
But I agree, Sephiroth was an innocent. The only true evil force in FF7 was Jenova, and Jenova controlled them all. However. I don't think Jenova took Sephiroth's form, just controlled him, neither do I think that Jenova ever communicated directly with Cloud.. that whole white flash/red flash thing.. they are all Sephiroth.
On another note.. this is a dead post. Don't revive anything that hasn't been replied to in over a week, unless it is stickied.
~Contra~
R
Rubicant
Guest
Nobody knows what the hell they're talking about. It all boils down to opinion.
S
Sinister Heaven
Guest
Contra, if it was Sephiroth the entire time:
1. Why was he still locked in that cocoon in the Northern Crater;
2. Why did Tifa say: "So you mean we've been following Jenova all this time?" okay, it wasn't exactly that, but it meant the same. Somebody with the script to the game, help me out here, she said it after they beat Jenova in the Whirlwind Maze.
And true, indeed, Sephiroth has 0 HP during that final battle, but that battle you are supposed to win: it doesn't matter how powerful or not he is at that moment; this is the true sephiroth, a shell of his former self, and Cloud wipes him out easily.
Try using Change instead of Omnislash: Sephiroth will then attack, hit Cloud for a good 2/3 of his HP, and Cloud will counter with a relatively weak attack, killing Sephiroth anyway.
1. Why was he still locked in that cocoon in the Northern Crater;
2. Why did Tifa say: "So you mean we've been following Jenova all this time?" okay, it wasn't exactly that, but it meant the same. Somebody with the script to the game, help me out here, she said it after they beat Jenova in the Whirlwind Maze.
And true, indeed, Sephiroth has 0 HP during that final battle, but that battle you are supposed to win: it doesn't matter how powerful or not he is at that moment; this is the true sephiroth, a shell of his former self, and Cloud wipes him out easily.
Try using Change instead of Omnislash: Sephiroth will then attack, hit Cloud for a good 2/3 of his HP, and Cloud will counter with a relatively weak attack, killing Sephiroth anyway.
Z
Z
Guest
God this is great!!! XD
I remember I beat this game in sixth grade! I still love it to death, but when I was that young I guess I didn't catch all those intricate details you guys picked up!
I got the main storyline. I should really play it all the way through again to see if there's something else I pick up. Heck, even start my own theories. Long live F F VII!
I remember I beat this game in sixth grade! I still love it to death, but when I was that young I guess I didn't catch all those intricate details you guys picked up!
I got the main storyline. I should really play it all the way through again to see if there's something else I pick up. Heck, even start my own theories. Long live F F VII!
C
Contra
Guest
Those sephiroths were sephy's psychic projections of himself. I don't remember that line.
I'd look into it but I have very limited comp access right now, I'll get back to you next week once my internet is back up.
I'd look into it but I have very limited comp access right now, I'll get back to you next week once my internet is back up.
T
Threesixty
Guest
I remember Hojo saying something about "his" Sephiroth controling the Clones, this was right before he shot that cannon into the barrier. And I remember Sephiroth turning into Jenova....
So, my conclusion, they weren't psyc. projections, per say....more likely, the Sephiroth they were chasing was the headless Jenova. The supporting evidence would be that blood trail that was left behind, by the headless Jenova, when Cloud and party escaped from Shinra Headquarters. Even according to Aerith' mother, Jenova could shapeshift.
So...not projections....just Jenova.
So, my conclusion, they weren't psyc. projections, per say....more likely, the Sephiroth they were chasing was the headless Jenova. The supporting evidence would be that blood trail that was left behind, by the headless Jenova, when Cloud and party escaped from Shinra Headquarters. Even according to Aerith' mother, Jenova could shapeshift.
So...not projections....just Jenova.
R
Rubicant
Guest
Another idea I mentioned before was that Hojo managed to successfully clone Sephiroth. Hojo set the cloned Sephiroth free, and it managed to take Jenova out of storage. The cloned Sephiroth then dragged the lifeless/headless body of Jenova up to the president's office, killed him, and escaped.
In some ways this makes more sense than the "it was jenova the entire time" idea. For example, how could a headless body, which was bleeding mind you, manage to drag itself up like 5 flights of stairs? And why would Jenova cut off pieces of itself for Cloud et al to fight? But it still doesn't explain why the Sephiroth you chase throughout FF7 can fly/float. Only ghosts can do that, right? Well, Vincent sure could fly. He jumps out of the coffin and does a double backflip! And you bet your ass that floating like that is Hojo's trademark.
But still, the "it was Jenova the entire time" seems to be more whole as far as an idea goes. And Sinister is right on that one. How could it be THE sephiroth if he was in the North Crater the entire time? A perfect clone would explain it, but Jenova explains it much better. And you're right, Tifa says: "Not Sephiroth!? You mean all this time it wasn't Sephiroth we've been after?" At another point Jenova/Sephiroth says "All I wanted was a body. A seeing, hearing, moving body. Soon it will be over..." I think it was right before the battle with Jenova. So what could that mean?
Yeah.
In some ways this makes more sense than the "it was jenova the entire time" idea. For example, how could a headless body, which was bleeding mind you, manage to drag itself up like 5 flights of stairs? And why would Jenova cut off pieces of itself for Cloud et al to fight? But it still doesn't explain why the Sephiroth you chase throughout FF7 can fly/float. Only ghosts can do that, right? Well, Vincent sure could fly. He jumps out of the coffin and does a double backflip! And you bet your ass that floating like that is Hojo's trademark.
But still, the "it was Jenova the entire time" seems to be more whole as far as an idea goes. And Sinister is right on that one. How could it be THE sephiroth if he was in the North Crater the entire time? A perfect clone would explain it, but Jenova explains it much better. And you're right, Tifa says: "Not Sephiroth!? You mean all this time it wasn't Sephiroth we've been after?" At another point Jenova/Sephiroth says "All I wanted was a body. A seeing, hearing, moving body. Soon it will be over..." I think it was right before the battle with Jenova. So what could that mean?
Yeah.
C
Cool Newbie
Guest
wow, i did'nt expect the ff7 story to go this deep, amazing.
one thing that always did confuse me in the end is cloud the real cloud (from tifa's memory) or is he a fake (as hojo says he created him piece by piece), or is there another explination?
one thing that always did confuse me in the end is cloud the real cloud (from tifa's memory) or is he a fake (as hojo says he created him piece by piece), or is there another explination?
R
Rubicant
Guest
No, he's the real deal. Hojo probably did re-construct him piece by piece after the Nibelheim incident. Remember how Sephiroth lifted Cloud up with is sword? I'm sure that would cause a ton of injury to anyone. And..Cloud was a candidate for being injected with Jenova cells. He was considered a "failed experiment" because the cells screwed him up so badly. The mako treatment also didn't help.
There never was a fake Cloud. Cloud was just very confused after the Nibelheim incident, so he had to make something up so he could actually function in life. Another bit of proof is when Cloud shows up in the sector 7 train station. He says Tifa's name before she even recognizes him.
There never was a fake Cloud. Cloud was just very confused after the Nibelheim incident, so he had to make something up so he could actually function in life. Another bit of proof is when Cloud shows up in the sector 7 train station. He says Tifa's name before she even recognizes him.
T
Threesixty
Guest
Only after the Flash......does, Cloud say Tifa's name. The same flash you see whenever, Cloud is possessed by Jenova.
And did you ever talk to the two guards on the bottom of the screen of where the Midgar pillar is at.....(the field map before, Tifa's bar)....One of the two guard, is named Cloud....at least that's how it reads....could be a translation problem.
The truth is: FF7's story is incoherent. So everyone comes up with different meanings of what's happening, and of what happened.
And did you ever talk to the two guards on the bottom of the screen of where the Midgar pillar is at.....(the field map before, Tifa's bar)....One of the two guard, is named Cloud....at least that's how it reads....could be a translation problem.
The truth is: FF7's story is incoherent. So everyone comes up with different meanings of what's happening, and of what happened.
L
Lieron
Guest
Heh, in all actuality, that Sephiroth has 0 HP. If you use Game Shark or something to get an enemy skill materia in that fight, with the skill ???? and use it, it will do 0 damage... and kill him.
could he have 0 hp becasue of the gameshark? lol
C
Contra
Guest
Not when the code puts an enemy skill materia on cloud.. we all know the enemies are stored in very different locations in the game...
~And so returns the prodigal Contra~
~And so returns the prodigal Contra~
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