FF7 - Technical Discussion on Game Resolution and FMV

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I guess the cost of the resolution was pretty much linear. So it all boils down to how much time they actually could afford to spend rendering (keeping in mind the possible errors and multiple studied possibilities). I think they simply used the bare minimum resolution they found tolerable. And for the DVD versions, when everything was already final, they simply re-rendered the movies once more with a higher resolution.

As for the actual game resolution, who knows. Maybe they had some sort of technical reason for that. I can tell you , for example, early VGA games where rendered at 320x200 8bits because it was a very convenient resolution due to real mode memory mapping. Back on the day DOS programs could access the memory in 64KB chunks called segments. Since 320x200x1bytes = 64KB, one could fill the whole framebuffer without having to deal with costly bank switchings.
 
So to conclude this:


  • They worked in 3d for the backgrounds and movies and probably rendered at a few resolutions before the end of the project.  The 2 released resolutions for FF7 are 320*224 game, and 640*448 Toshiba DVD.
  • They worked at 320*224 possibly because of fear of overscan, and/or poor research on game resolution after coming from the SNES. It is also possible it was an early design choice in preparation for the N64. They then kept this design choice because they didn't want to change the engine or because they still had a fear of overscan.


Does anyone know for certain if FF9 also keeps to the 320*224 standard (along with game play)?
 
So to conclude this:


  • They worked in 3d for the backgrounds and movies and probably rendered at a few resolutions before the end of the project.  The 2 released resolutions for FF7 are 320*224 game, and 640*448 Toshiba DVD.
  • They worked at 320*224 possibly because of fear of overscan, and/or poor research on game resolution after coming from the SNES. It is also possible it was an early design choice in preparation for the N64. They then kept this design choice because they didn't want to change the engine or because they still had a fear of overscan.


Does anyone know for certain if FF9 also keeps to the 320*224 standard (along with game play)?
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Well, DLPB, I do not know anything about the screen resolution of the Full Motion Videos from Final Fantasy IX. But I did find a link that may help you:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197338-final-fantasy-ix/62264361

Please look at what @MysterPixel said on this web page from GameFaqs.com when you get the chance.

If you do the math, 640 divided by 2 equals 320 and 480 divided by 2 equals 240. Hmm, not sure if this helps.
 
Interesting.  So which is easier/more cost effective?  Framebyframe animation or 3d models with camera?
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What you have to bear in mind is that it's very hard to guarantee a video won't need re-doing some time in the future. Things change; requirements alter; things get removed from video because their counterparts in game are cut from the final release etc. etc. In this sort of environment, it's far smarter to create some 3d models, use some static 2D backgrounds and keep the ability to re-render at will.

Could there really exist out there masters that are far ahead of 640*448?
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Back then? Likely - in fact, there might even have been objects and models with details held as vector information rather than rasters. Today? Not so likely; as soon as FF7 shipped the team was dissolved and the assets all lost.
 
That's a real shame too....  You'd have thought they would have kept all that properly archived after such a long hard project.

It says there that the FMV on IX are 640*480... that sounds suspicious to me.  I am sure it was smaller.
 
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That's a real shame too....  You'd have thought they would have kept all that properly archived after such a long hard project.
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You'd be amazed how often it happens.

It's not just in videogames. I work as a web designer, and I've done some work for some quite well known brands. You'd be horrified to know how few could give me masters of their logos and art assets. It's appalling.
 
That's a real shame too....  You'd have thought they would have kept all that properly archived after such a long hard project.

It says there that the FMV on IX are 640*480... that sounds suspicious to me.  I am sure it was smaller.
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Reality sometimes is not like you want it too be. For example here are things too consider. 1995 (they were releasing DEMOS of FF7 at that time). The technology being targeted for the video (MJPEG which was a dumbed down version of MPEG). What storage media would they use for a proper archive (likely tape magnetic tape) that tech has changed a bit over the years and keeping equipment that can read and or write various formats for long periods of time gets interesting. The tape drives they used at that time don't likely exist unless they are the main frame style tape units (those are still around surprisingly). 

As for what they would be using, it may have been Alias or soft image. AS others have noted it's likely they rendered it at higher rez than the end results Their are many reasons for that. First MJPEG is a discrete cosine transform technology. (DCT for short). I suggest you look at this wikipedia article to understand the true meaning of what I'm talking about. In as simple terms as I can put it the DCT has more data in it than you think. If you ever noticed some JPEG's don't just render immediately but do so progressively. This is an important aspect of the DCT to keep in mind. They rendered at a higher resolution to begin with because it meant the final DCT data that is thrown out makes more sense. It also means the resulting data looks better at a lower resolution. It's that simple. That would have been the case for the original FF7 renders. Loss of data from the macro blocks is acceptable in both MPEG and MJPEG because of how the DCT works. The basic engine for converting the DCT data was the MDEC hardware of the PS1. This created the video data from the JPEG data. So a bit of analysis is important.

I suspect the scale of the video data was chosen specifically because they would not have had space for the camera control data. IE the lost data in the 240-224 you've been pining about (16 vertical pixels) was likely used for  camera and animation control stream. This was used in a number of the FMVs in FF7 to great affect. The frames are interleaved mode 2 data (CD interactive) if I remember correctly. Keep in mind that they are mixing audio and video frames as well. You only have 288k of data per second from the drive on the PS1 if I remember correctly. All this is QUITE important. Some of that is delta compressed audio data (2048 byte sectors) video (2304 byte sectors with NO ECC). and likely 2048 byte sectors with the animation and camera control. You can only CRAM so much per second. Something had to give somewhere and look no further than the video. You can do 320x240 FMV with audio but add in Camera and animation control and there goes some of your video. I believe FF8 did something similar with the train sequence in one of the SEED missions. FF9 did NOT mix ANY grapic models into FMVs (straight video and audio sequences) so it's likely they were full 320x240 animations. FMV data is just blocks of video data, what controls the data placement on the screen is the application decoding the data (same with the audio). That's why they could mix all that in FF7. The MDEC merely supplied decoded DCT data to paste to the screen however the developers wanted

Cyb
 
No I am seriously not accepting that a project like this couldn't have been archived.  It could and it should (and we are assuming it wasn't... any proof?).  As for the resolution, it is all opinion as to why they did it, but other games used 320*240 and ff7 could have too, despite the argument you make.
 
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No I am seriously not accepting that a project like this couldn't have been archived.  It could and it should (and we are assuming it wasn't... any proof?).  As for the resolution, it is all opinion as to why they did it, but other games used 320*240 and ff7 could have too, despite the argument you make.
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With 3 streams interleaved on the disk each stream of data will be a SECTOR or a cluster of sectors, that is how the CDI spec was written. So you have chunks of video (2304 byte sectors) audio (2K sectors) and animation (2k sectors) interleaved at intervals to update each part of the chain at 15fps.  Any "left over" space in a sector is NOT USED. The sectors can't be packed like you would on a PC as the PS1 combined hardware and software decoding of data.

I'm pretty sure that explains it well enough.  Video with 320x224 resolution has more than just 2 streams of data in it. You have a limited number of sectors per second (or frames as used in ECMA-119 and ECMA-130) shorting a sector of video gives you the space needed for the 3d animation data and camera information. Fairly simple.

If that isn't satisfactory, then I am uncertain what could be. Anyone have the MJPEG format spec handy? I don't think I still have the gears doc floating on my system. Erstwhile this has become an unproductive use of time, as it won't bring back the data nor will insisting that 320x224 "doesn't make sense" make it become 320x240 or have a higher resolution. The original data is not available nor likely will ever be. It is what it is as the saying goes.

Cyb
 
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No I am seriously not accepting that a project like this couldn't have been archived.  It could and it should (and we are assuming it wasn't... any proof?).
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There's no definitive proof that the assets don't exist, but it's a reasonable assumption, as

a) Square couldn't provide non-PSX assets to Eidos for the PC port;
b) Square probably wouldn't see a business case for keeping the assets long term, and;
c) Sadly, it's a fairly common practice to throw away artwork without considering its long term value

Unfortunately, I just think we're going to have to accept what we've got. Maybe someone someday will have the patience to render their own remastered videos with handmade assets, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
I guess you never know; maybe in fifty years time someone will discover some tapes in a dusty Japanese warehouse. Unfortunately, all of us will be dead by thanks to our excessive JRPG habits.
 
You speak for yourself, Bosola.  I plan on harnessing the planet's power by causing a gigantic wound on the planet by summoning this thing called Meteor with something called Black Materia, in order that I become a god to rule on high over every living (or dead?) soul.

Granted, I am aiming high!  And of course, no one has ever tried that before....
 
You need to think bigger, get your arm stuck onto some gunslinger and control his mind, it's the future I tell you.
 
Also, just a thought - how much time (and resource) would it take for *us* to try and re-create the movies with our own 3D models? Is distributing a video based on models and assets derived from the design of the original copyright infringement?

I wouldn't be thinking about using Project Avalanche assets, though, as their project has a slightly different style to the original. I'm thinking about trying to directly recreate the implied models used for the original videos.
 
Recreating the original models is probably about as much work as the new stuff that TA is doing. I doubt anyone would wanna put in that effort when the same effort could go toward a much more noticeable improvement in TA's project.
 
I'd always assumed the point of TA was to recreate every graphical aspect of the game as close to the original as possible while obviously giving them a tasty overhaul, recreating backgrounds and FMVs to match too. At least that's the impression I've been working under so far,

The reason None of the FMVs have been remade yet is because the field scenes needed to do them haven't been fully built yet.
Actually, I'm sure Spoox already gave a demo of one of the shorter ones. I'll try and find it.

EDIT: Here we are: http://www.flickr.com/photos/39897743@N05/5671503965/
 
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yup I did, don't forget about this one:

Click on the image to see a quick preview with only the walkmesh...


The bad part about this one, is that only the last part is available as coded camera flow, due to the fact that they only used it for placing the walkmesh and characters on top of it, but the other part shouldn't be that hard to figure out.
The intro is the reason I'm building Midgar.....
 8-)
 
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