[FF7PC-98] Beacause - FF7 Retranslation (Merged into Reunion, use that instead)

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[criticism] Things like renaming Heaven's Cloud to Ama No Kurakamo, Flayer to Fangtian Hua Ji and Amulet to Omamori, stand out like sore thumbs.   I think having one, and even two words that aren't English sounding is acceptable (like the Mutsunokami Yoshiyuki) but when it gets to 3, it begins sounding like it wasn't even translated from Japanese.   As for amulet, I guess I just don't see where the need was to change it since they're the same thing? [/criticism]


It's very impressive that you've gotten this far, and I'm glad you switched from the extremely literal translation of the beginning.   I've also found I'm more ok with a lot of the name changes like Gast to Gusto, Zack to Zax, etc.  I figure the majority of people don't have regular names in the FF7 universe, so any changes are probably getting it closer to what was originally intended.


Keep up the good work.
 
There are only a handful of words left over from Japanese, they stuck because they're either proper names, or concepts whose English equivalent is not quite the same thing (or in some cases with the original translation just plain wrong).

For Ama no Murakamo: Changing it would be like calling Excalibur "Battlebreach" or something similar. Heaven's Cloud is a very rough translation but is equally meaningless to a person unfamiliar with the actual sword, so what's there to lose?

Fangtian Hua Ji is a legendary class of polearm that appears in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Flayer conveys nothing of the meaning (which is something like "Heaven Pointing Spear"), so again, I'm not sure anything of value is lost.

An omamori is an amulet, but an amulet isn't necessarily an omamori, much like ninja <-> spy. There are plenty of other choices for amulets the designers could have made, but seeing as they chose an omamori I think it's right to honor that choice.

I figure the majority of people don't have regular names in the FF7 universe, so any changes are probably getting it closer to what was originally intended.
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Yeah Zack was always an odd one, I mean we have Cloud, Tifa, Aerith/s and...Zack? Really?
taL0f.jpg
 
I would also note that Ama No Murakumo is used in other games. Inc other FF games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusanagi

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Heaven's_Cloud


 They are pure concepts and swords.  Changing it would be as silly as changing Murasame to Village Rain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.O.3an_Guo

The other weapons are properly named.  They are chinese and must remain chinese. 

The reason I left http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dragon_Crescent_Blade  as Dragon Guan Dao is because that was as close as I could get given the space and the rather awkward use of Chinese. Qing Long Yan Yue Dao would not look good in any game....  However I managed to keep some of the Chinese... the meaning Dragon and the fact it is called a Guan Dao.

I take the point with Omamori and Signed Shikishi that these things are not western, and I would have no objections to them being changed to fit in with a western audience... but I still err on the side of protecting the original choices made by the design team.  Others may not :)
 
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I would only agree with the criticism on omamori. Leaving it as omamori just looks plain stupid as they clearly aren't japanese items but rather simple amulets you'd see any day.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omamori

Says here they are specifically a certain culture/religion.  They are certainly not regular western items. Using "Amulet" or something else completely destroys the connection to Buddhism and Shinto. Edit.  I understand the Japanese translates as "Amulet"  but Ultimania makes it clear that Omamori is intended. 

On similar  note:

In the Japanese version of FF7 there are plenty of references to western mythologies and ideas, including Knights of the Round, Longinus and even Saint Clip.  If we follow the logic that all non western names and mythologies should be converted into something western, we also have to concede that the Japanese "should have" converted all the western references to something they are familiar with.  Clearly, FF7 is intended to have a nice healthy mix of culture, and messing about with that, imho, takes away from the game.  At the same time it takes a massive liberty and overrules the design team.  When it comes to attacks, monster names, materia names and so forth... yeah I can see a need to dispense with 100% fact some times.  But when we are talking about specific items and specific weapons, there is nowhere to go on it.  A japanese gamer did not look at "Longinus" and think "Gee, why didn't they use Tanto."  He accepts that the game has mixtures of many different cultures.

Diversity like this can only add to the game.  Changing Odin to "God"  or Niblheim to "Mist Village"  would be every bit as stupid as altering clear and intended Japanese/Chinese culture to fit a western audience.

edit.  To further my point consider this

Pole Axe
Master Fist
Maximum Ray
Metal Knuckle
Microlaser
Missing Score
Mop
Motor Drive

All of these are named IN ENGLISH in the Japanese game.  They accept our culture.  We should accept there's.  I have made my mind up on that I am afraid.   ;D
 
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In other news, I had a lot of fun with this.  Yes, I have taken a liberty...  Don simply says "Girl" in japanese, but this gives him some character and the scene some humour

------------------------------
Corneo
“Woo hoo!!
   I've made up my mind!!”{NEW}
“My partner for tonight is…”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This spirited filly!”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This slender sex-bomb!”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This burly beaut!”
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If I may make a suggestion.

I would use something like "This spunky beauty.", since I don't think words like sex-bomb and burly are apropriate when reffering to Yuffie
 
No one is referring to Yuffie.  He is referring to Tifa, Cloud and Aerith.   The localisation fits the intended targets and translation quite faithfully.  ALthough I am not sure if Corneo is referring to Cloud as fat or as muscular.  I assume muscular.
 
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I would only agree with the criticism on omamori. Leaving it as omamori just looks plain stupid as they clearly aren't japanese items but rather simple amulets you'd see any day.
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The image used in the International bonus disk is quite clearly an omamori, the Ultimania description reads "A Japanese style omamori that brings luck to its owner. Although it reminds one of Wutai it's actually sold in Midhir."
 
Luksy completed the translation for mtcrl_9 (bridge scene corel) and I have tried to make it sound as intended.  We are not sure how Yuffie's line is intended.  We assume Cloud means "You are thinking of throwing us off"

Code: [Select]
Code: 
Mt. Corel,West------------------------------{CLOUD}“Hm…? I've a good idea what you're thinking of doing…”------------------------------{YUFFIE}“Weirdo!! Don't tempt me, I might just do it!”------------------------------{BARRET}“I'm back…”------------------------------{TIFA}“Woah,that's some view… Almost becomes part of you.”------------------------------{CLOUD}“Scared?”------------------------------{TIFA}“Yeah,just a little.”------------------------------#o 1 2{CLOUD}{CHOICE}Don't worry,I'd catch you.{CHOICE}You wouldn't die{CHOICE} even if you did fall off.”------------------------------{TIFA}“Oh,you'd say that to anyone!”------------------------------{TIFA}“Oh,you're awful! Is that what you're thinking!?”------------------------------{AERIS}“{CLOUD}…”------------------------------{AERIS}“…Yeah.”------------------------------#o 1 2{CLOUD}{CHOICE}Don't worry,I'd catch you.{CHOICE}Worry about being with me,{CHOICE} that's more dangerous.”------------------------------{AERIS}“Oh,{CLOUD}! You're so reliable!”------------------------------{AERIS}“Hmm… You might be right…”------------------------------{RED XIII}“Humans are strange animals…”------------------------------
 
On similar  note:

In the Japanese version of FF7 there are plenty of references to western mythologies and ideas, including Knights of the Round, Longinus and even Saint Clip.  If we follow the logic that all non western names and mythologies should be converted into something western, we also have to concede that the Japanese "should have" converted all the western references to something they are familiar with.  Clearly, FF7 is intended to have a nice healthy mix of culture, and messing about with that, imho, takes away from the game.  At the same time it takes a massive liberty and overrules the design team.  When it comes to attacks, monster names, materia names and so forth... yeah I can see a need to dispense with 100% fact some times.  But when we are talking about specific items and specific weapons, there is nowhere to go on it.  A japanese gamer did not look at "Longinus" and think "Gee, why didn't they use Tanto."  He accepts that the game has mixtures of many different cultures.

Diversity like this can only add to the game.  Changing Odin to "God"  or Niblheim to "Mist Village"  would be every bit as stupid as altering clear and intended Japanese/Chinese culture to fit a western audience.

edit.  To further my point consider this

Pole Axe
Master Fist
Maximum Ray
Metal Knuckle
Microlaser
Missing Score
Mop
Motor Drive

All of these are named IN ENGLISH in the Japanese game.  They accept our culture.  We should accept there's.  I have made my mind up on that I am afraid.   :-D
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Did not know this.  Carry on then.
 
No one is referring to Yuffie.  He is referring to Tifa, Cloud and Aerith.   The localisation fits the intended targets and translation quite faithfully.  ALthough I am not sure if Corneo is referring to Cloud as fat or as muscular.  I assume muscular.
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Oh... it's from THAT scene. Then disregard what I said before.  :(
 
So, I am playing through the game again using the new translation.  I'm enjoying it, thanks DLPB for all the hard work...

Is this the correct place to post errors?  If so I will post any that I catch, however small I guess :)

In the second reactor, Cloud stops to talk with Jessie.  She explains why they had a problem on the security checkpoint on the train.

Her words are... 

"It was Cloud's ID Card, I think overdid it...... that's what caused it."

I think it should be "I think I overdid it"

Again, thanks for all the hard work!
 
No that is the old localisation.  Wait for R04.  See first post. :)  There have been hundreds of improvements since then across the board.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Glenn_%28singer%29

I wonder if Glen Glenn was intended for グリングリン  .  This singer does also appear to be a Hillbilly singer (the guys at farm were gonna be hillbilly once).  The japanese seems more Green/Glynn though... but I have seen グリン = Glenn.  There are other Glen Glenn names too inc 1 large company.

I find it more far fetched than just a pun on green but....

edit.  All right, it was more than far fetched... it is almost impossible.
 
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colour.PNG



Nice use of colour for the Expert's Hall.  I am very pleased with how the Expert's hall went.  We are definitely getting better at this.
 
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I have to say, high quality text really looks odd with low res backgrounds. TA's graphical overhall is going to be amazing.
 
Says here they are specifically a certain culture/religion.  They are certainly not regular western items. Using "Amulet" or something else completely destroys the connection to Buddhism and Shinto. Edit.  I understand the Japanese translates as "Amulet"  but Ultimania makes it clear that Omamori is intended.
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The ones in FFVII aren't Shintoist or Buddhist amulets, considering they aren't based on either religion (neither exists in the FFVII world, after all). Not to mention using "omamori" is totally clueless to the player; there isn't a thing lost when you translate it to amulet, as there aren't real pictures in game other than an extra disk nobody ever bothered to check (and even in that case people would still understand it's a japanese amulet, it's not rocket science). Leaving omamori is just like leaving Barret's "Cloud-san!", no more no less. Plus, they're usually called amulets anyways and the reference would still make sense with a non japophile term.
 
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Looks pretty good!
I have to say, high quality text really looks odd with low res backgrounds. TA's graphical overhall is going to be amazing.
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[offtopic] have you checked out Facepalmer field backgrounds? [/offtopic]
 
Looks pretty good![offtopic] have you checked out Facepalmer field backgrounds? [/offtopic]
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I have though they completely slipped my mind when I posted that.
 
Using "omamori" is totally clueless to the player; there isn't a thing lost when you translate it to amulet,
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There is. What is lost is the intended reference to an Omamori.

as there aren't real pictures in game other than an extra disk nobody ever bothered to check
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I bothered to check it.   :-P  The same as "Glass hairpin" is made clear in Ultimania.  These things are intended by the designers.  A way around this is for me to do both.  I can call it Omamori and in description "An amulet"  but this may just be silly.  Either way I am keeping Omamori because Ultimania and the bonus disk make it clear that is what it is.  An Omamori is an amulet, but an amulet is not always an Omamori.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omamori
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amulet

It gets its own page in Wiki to differentiate
 
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