[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

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If that is a mistake, then Charlie and Luksy have both missed it.  According to Luksy, she is saying "It was just bad timing" to the fact she  started laughing and Cloud then turns away from her. In other words "I didn't mean to laugh, it was just badly timed".   That guy's translation above won't work with the original script code either btw... the timing would still be kind of odd.   We did go over this scene a number of times. 

I will ask Luksy and Charlie.

#xy 192 72
{CLOUD}
“What’s so funny!?
  Why are you laughing?”
------------------------------
#xy 64 88
{AERIS}
“I’m sorry,it’s just…”
------------------------------
#xy 8 160
{AERIS}
“{CLOUD},
  don’t let it get to you.”
------------------------------
#xy 16 88
{AERIS}
“It was just bad timing,that’s all.” [This is said directly after the dialogue above when you walk away from her]
------------------------------

Also notice that the bad timing dialogue comes AFTER the "don't let it get to you". Not before, as the person above asserts [assuming text order is correct in English version, which I am nearly sure it is. Luksy/Charlie will have to see the original scene in Japanese].

I do wish people would post here. It ain't gonna be fixed if there is an issue and it's not reported.  :-P

If it turns out to be the way we have originally done this, I will use something like:

“{CLOUD},
  you're not upset, are you?
  I wasn't laughing at you.”

"It was just bad timing, that's all".

To make it obvious.
 
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In other news not so old...  Charlie didn't like the new dialogue for Sep/Cloud and nor did I.  Discussed with Covarr for a bit and we've chopped it down.  I think we have a winner here:

{CLOUD}
“Are you going to brief
  us on the mission?”
------------------------------
#xy 168 48
Sephiroth
“This time our orders
  are far from typical.”
------------------------------
#xy 80 152
{CLOUD}
“Good!”
------------------------------
#xy 160 56
Sephiroth
“Why do you say that?”
------------------------------------------------
#xy 88 48
{CLOUD}
“I joined Soldier so
  I could be like you.”{NEW}
“But by the time I made first
  class,the war was over.
  If I wanna be a hero,I need
  to be part of something big.”
------------------------------
#xy 88 56
{CLOUD}
“What about you… hero?
  How do you feel about these missions?”
 
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Oooh my god, I've racked my brain trying to know what is the correct solution to the church scene and I skipped it specifically because I couldn't make up my mind. But I'll put in my two cents now that I've checked and double-checked the material again (the Japanese script and how the scene plays out in terms of the models movements).

So here's the play by play in the Japanese unmodded version (starting immediately after naming Aerith) with quick translations of my own:
「わたし、花売りのAERITH。
　よろしくね」<End> "I'm the flower seller Aerith. Nice to meet you"
(Leno walks in, Cloud and Aerith don't notice)
CLOUD
「俺はCLOUDだ」<New>
「仕事は……
　仕事は『なんでも屋』だ」<End> "I'm Cloud. My job is... I'm a Jack of all trades [can be interpreted as general merchant. Literally an "Anything-er" or "Does-Anything-man"].
AERITH
「はぁ……なんでも屋さん」<End> "Woah/Oh?/Well!... a Jack/general marketer."
(Aerith starts laughing [I THINK because of the General marketer interpretation??? Or she just finds an unusual job title like Jack of All Trades/なんでも屋 amusing.])
CLOUD
「なんでもやるのさ」<End> "I'll do anything/take any job, you see."
CLOUD
「何がおかしい！
　どうして笑う！」<End> "What's funny!? Why are you laughing!?"
AERITH
「ごめんなさい……でも、ね」<End> "I'm sorry... but, hey..."
(Aerith notices Leno, Cloud too.)
CLOUD
「ん……？」<End> "Huh?" [THIS DOESN'T SHOW UP IN EITHER JAPANESE OR ENGLISH VERSIONS OF THE GAMES, I ONLY SAW IT NOW IN THE SCRIPT. If it did, I think it would solve a lot of confusion. It's pretty clear this is the point where Leno is supposed to be there.]
AERITH
「CLOUD！
　かまっちゃダメ！」<End>
AERITH
「タイミング、悪いなぁ」<End>
AERITH
「ねえ、CLOUD。
　ボディガードも仕事のうち？」<End>

[In Hermans FF7 Script, these are in the wrong order. You can talk to Aerith and she will say 「タイミング、悪いなぁ」, before running up to Leno, which is when she says 「CLOUD！かまっちゃダメ！」. After that she says「ねえ、CLOUD。ボディガードも仕事のうち？」when you talk to her, progressing the scene. So I'll continue below with this adjusted and Leno's line added.

(If you talk to Aerith)
AERITH
「タイミング、悪いなぁ」<End> ("Bad timing, huh.")
(Cloud runs to Leno, is stopped by Aerith by : )
AERITH
「CLOUD！
　かまっちゃダメ！」<End> (Cloud, don't care about it/him!)
(Cloud shrugs)
(If you talk to Leno)
[LENO]
「オレにかまうな、だと」<End> (She said, don't care about me.) [Two things that further point me to the conclusion that it's probably "Don't mind him" rather than "don't let (my laughing) get to you": Both Leno and Aerith use "kamau; to care about, to mind" and I even think Leno's verbal tic だと is used grammatically here as in だと[言った] (omitted [she said]). Meaning, Aerith had to be referring to him.]
(When you talk to Aerith)
AERITH
「ねえ、CLOUD。
　ボディガードも仕事のうち？」<End> (Hey, Cloud. Is bodyguarding a thing you do?)
 And the rest of the dialog is fine.

So. My conclusion is sadly I think you have to rearrange this scene again DLPB ... The evidence points much more heavily at the "timing" referring to the timing of the Turks, not Aeriths laughter, and the "don't mind him/don't let it get to you" is indeed about Leno...
 
Ah, now that makes sense.  I'll get Luksy to confirm it, which I'm sure he will - and then I'll update it all.  The script programming probably still needs editing to make that scene work as intended.

@Matski  Keep your eyes peeled for anything else. Charlie will find the vast majority of issues,. This one slipped through.  Shame that that other guy doesn't come here and post a report. Need more like that.  It will be fixed.


[I THINK because of the General marketer interpretation??? Or she just finds an unusual job title like Jack of All Trades
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No, it's because Cloud reminds her of Zax, right down to the job description. His hair, his mannerisms, and then "Haha - and he's a Jack of all Trades". She notes at the park that Cloud even has the same job as Zax.

Of course, this all makes sense to the player by the end.
 
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Young Cloud is no different to normal Cloud. I am not sure whether to update this or not.
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I have two position on that. My first position is that the dev had planed to replace the model and had used a place holder for the eventually young cloud model. In this case it should be updated.

My second position: They had chosen the same model to give a hint that he lies about his past. He only knows his current appearance as Soldier so he transfers it to his imagined past. In that case leave it as it is, which is also my recommendation. There is another reason I do recommend it and that is because it will clash with the battle model. So if you can't find a way to replace it for the flash back it will only create inconsistent. Although, if people do need it then they can use my ChaOS mode, since with 7H I can replace the models only for the flash back, so both field and battle model are changed.

One small idea for R07, you my consider using the model of Cloud with his weapon on back only for scenes where the player can expect enemy encounters or where player is on a mission instead to have the sword present all the time.

BTW. please take a look at my new Sephiroth release: https://www.ff7catalog.com/posts/170575/
It's not perfect, but it does look fine for the most part of the game. ATM I don't think there is a better way for the coat with his normal skeleton. I have a better one, one day. But I guess it will be sufficient for the moment.
 
I do wish people would post here. It ain't gonna be fixed if there is an issue and it's not reported.  :-P
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I was interested in talking to the translator too but the conversation was posted anonymously on 4chan and was closed by the time I found it. Normally any FF-related searches that take me to that site are considered with a pinch of salt (there have been a number of posts there about the mod, usually petty or pointless) but this conversation seemed like a sincere response to help another poster determine the quality of the project.

@Matski  Keep your eyes peeled for anything else...
Click to expand...
Will do. It's been interesting following this project's growing popularity and seeking out any worthwhile criticisms that may improve it.
 
I found the exact convo you did by searching for what you wrote here, so I spotted it was anon at 4chan.  He/She clearly doesn't know that this is STILL an ongoing project.  Not their fault, really, of course.  That's just a logical assumption.

Will do. It's been interesting following this project's growing popularity and seeking out any worthwhile criticisms that may improve it.
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Watch out.  You'll destroy my image as a closed minded bigoted FF fanatic that won't change anything and rules the retranslation like an evil overlord.   :-D
 
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OK I'm signing off on this map now forever haha.

Original
Code: [Select]
Code: 
{CLOUD}“You going to brief us about this mission?”------------------------------Sephiroth“This isn't a typical mission.”------------------------------{CLOUD}“Good!”------------------------------Sephiroth“Why do you say that?”------------------------------{CLOUD}“I joined SOLDIER to be like you.”{NEW}“But by the time I made First Class, the war was already over.”{NEW}“My big hopes of becoming a hero like you ended with the war.”{NEW}“That's why I always sign up  whenever there's a big mission.  Kind of a way to prove myself.”------------------------------{CLOUD}“Say, how do you feel,  MISTER Sephiroth?”------------------------------Sephiroth“…I thought you wanted  a briefing?”------------------------------Sephiroth“Our mission is to investigate an old Mako reactor.”------------------------------Sephiroth“There have been reports of it malfunctioning, and producing brutal creatures.”{NEW}“First, we will dispose of those creatures. Then, we'll locate the problem and neutralize it.”------------------------------{CLOUD}“Brutal creatures? Where?”------------------------------Sephiroth“The Mako Reactor at Nibelheim.”------------------------------{CLOUD}“Nibelheim…”------------------------------{CLOUD}“That's where I'm from.”------------------------------Sephiroth“Hmm…hometown…”------------------------------“Sir…s, something strange just crashed into the truck!”------------------------------Sephiroth“That would be our Monster…”------------------------------
Old
Code: [Select]
Code: 
#xy 56 160{CLOUD}“Are you going to brief  us on the mission?”------------------------------#xy 168 48Sephiroth“Our orders,this time,  are far from typical.”------------------------------#xy 80 152{CLOUD}“Good!”------------------------------#xy 160 56Sephiroth“Why do you say that?”------------------------------#xy 88 48{CLOUD}“I wanted to be like you.  That’s why I joined Soldier.”{NEW}“But by the time I made first class,  the war was already over.”{NEW}“My big hopes of becoming a hero  like you ended with the war.”{NEW}“I love these smaller missions.  They’re a way to prove myself.”------------------------------#xy 88 56{CLOUD}“Say,how does it feel… HERO?”------------------------------#xy 160 48Sephiroth“I thought you  wanted a briefing?”------------------------------#xy 144 40Sephiroth“Our orders are to investigate  a deteriorated Mako reactor.”------------------------------#xy 128 24Sephiroth“Along with the malfunction,  there’s been an outbreak of  brutal creatures.”{NEW}“Once we’re finished with them,  we can locate the problem  and neutralize it.”------------------------------#xy 72 160{CLOUD}“Brutal creatures?  Where?”------------------------------#xy 144 48Sephiroth“The Mako reactor at Niblheim.”------------------------------#xy 80 152{CLOUD}“Niblheim…”------------------------------#xy 48 152{CLOUD}“That’s where I’m from.”------------------------------#xy 168 40Sephiroth“Is that so?  Hmm,hometown…”------------------------------#xy 90 8“Sir!  Some crazy looking creature  just crashed into our truck!”------------------------------#xy 200 136Sephiroth“That would be one  of our monsters.”
New
Code: [Select]
Code: 
#xy 56 160{CLOUD}“Are you going to brief  us on the mission?”------------------------------#xy 168 48Sephiroth“This time our orders  are far from typical.”------------------------------#xy 80 152{CLOUD}“Good!”------------------------------#xy 160 56Sephiroth“Why do you say that?”------------------------------#xy 88 48{CLOUD}“I joined Soldier so  I could be like you.”{NEW}“But by the time I made first  class,the war was over.  If I wanna be a hero,I need  to be part of something big.”------------------------------#xy 88 56{CLOUD}“What about you… hero?  How do you feel about  this mission?”------------------------------#xy 160 48Sephiroth“I thought you  wanted a briefing?”------------------------------#xy 144 40Sephiroth“Our orders are to investigate  a deteriorated Mako reactor,  which is behaving abnormally.”------------------------------#xy 128 24Sephiroth“There’s also been an outbreak  of brutal monsters in the area.”{NEW}“Once we’re finished with them,  we can identify the problem at  the reactor and neutralize it.”------------------------------#xy 72 160{CLOUD}“Brutal monsters?  Where?”------------------------------#xy 144 48Sephiroth“Niblheim.”------------------------------#xy 80 152{CLOUD}“Niblheim…”------------------------------#xy 48 152{CLOUD}“That’s where I’m from.”------------------------------#xy 168 40Sephiroth“Is that so?  Hmm,hometown…”------------------------------#xy 90 8“S-sir!  Some crazy looking creature  just jumped out at us!”------------------------------#xy 200 136Sephiroth“That would be one  of our monsters.”
 
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This one is still under construction. A major mistake on my part, since I assumed way too much.  Luksy's text wasn't the issue -  My interpretation of it was.  It's a very confusing piece because the Japanese omits things that the English absolutely needs. Charlie Beer has explained how this scene is meant to sound - and it isn't Aerith talking to her dead mother :P  She's long gone - like all who return to the planet after a short while.  So here's the old Reunion - and the current reconstruction (still very rough).  You'll get an idea of the issue here:

Code: [Select]
Code: 
Old Reunion{TIFA}“What does that mean?”------------------------------{AERIS}“More than words,  I don’t know.”------------------------------{CLOUD}“Speak with the planet?”------------------------------{TIFA}“Just what does the planet say?”------------------------------{AERIS}“It’s real noisy,  like it’s full of people.  That’s why I can’t make  out what it’s saying.”------------------------------{CLOUD}“Can you hear it now?”------------------------------{AERIS}“I only ever heard it at that church in the slums.  But she told me,‘Midgar’s no good anymore’.  …My mother,that is. My real mother.”------------------------------{AERIS}“‘{AERIS},you must escape Midgar.  Then you can speak with the planet  and find your Promised Land.’”{NEW}“That’s what Mum said. I used  to think,‘when I’m older,I won’t  hear things like this anymore’.”
New rough.
{TIFA}
“What does that mean?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“More than words,
  I don’t have a clue.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Speak with the planet?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Just what does the planet say?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“It’s real noisy,<< [Bad. "it" is used all over. Are all references to "it" the planet or lifestream or both? This sentence also makes no sense. The planet isn't noisy?]
  like it’s full of people. [Is the Japanese here saying literally that there are voices (from the Lifestream)?  At the moment, "it's full of people" is a crap sentence]
  That’s why I can’t make
  out what it’s saying.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Can you hear it now?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“I can only hear it at that church in the
  slums.  My mum once told me that [Once told me - to make it clear. But it depends when she said it. ]
  hearing it clearly wasn't possible
  in Midgar anymore. My real mum,
  that is.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“‘{AERIS},you must leave Midgar. [leave / escape? Ask Luksy/CB. Relevance - When did Ifalna say this? By escape... it could be while they were captured, but this doesn't seem to be the case? It could be any time?]
  Then you’ll be able to speak with the planet
  and find your Promised Land.’”{NEW}  [Is this text supposed to be Aerith quoting exactly what Ifalna said above - or in addition to it?]
“That’s what she said.
I thought I wouldn't be able to
hear anything as an adult.” [Why? Because the voices were diminishing with time, due to pollution/Mako being sucked up? ]
<<
 
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Eh the last piece under construction is very, very unclear.

The one above though is a remarkable improvement over the former translation. Much smoother.

Soon you should also be ready with all the SFX! :)
 
It's simple but hard to put together. The planet can't communicate with the Ancients if there is no Lifestream.  Since Midgar has been sucked dry of Mako - the planet has basically died there. Communicating with it has become harder. The Ancients unlock the planet and reach their Promised Land by talking to the planet.  I am not sure what that actually means - clearly the Ancients / Cetra have a special bond with the planet that is never expanded on.  Aerith can only hear the planet in the church - because that's holy ground presumably.  And that's also why the flowers grow there.  Ifalna explained to Aerith as a child that she would need to leave Midgar if she was to find her Promised Land.  It should be noted that the Promised Land isn't one place.  It's heavily implied - from what I can see - that they find their own "Promised Land".  The Elders of Cosmo Canyon believe that the Promised Land is simply some sort of metaphor for the end of a struggle.  Shin-Ra believe (very likely incorrectly) that it is one place - and that place is at the crater where Sephiroth and the Weapons were, surrounded in Mako.

But whatever.  Ifalna told Aerith (at some point while she was still alive) that for her to unlock the planet and find her Promised Land, she had to talk to the planet - and this could no longer be done from Midgar.

The "noise" I am assuming is all the voices of those recently departed - part of the Lifestream.

Luksy will have to do some of his Ultimania research. He's the Elder.  8-)  Charlie Beer should be along shortly too.
 
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you've got it all right, and we're on the right track with the adjustments.   :-D

But PLEASE differentiate Ifalna (mother) and Elmina (mum). The japanese is very clear with this, using Kaasan 母さん for Ifalna and Mama ママ for Elmina.
 
There is no way to differentiate in English.  Mum is Mum... They are all synonyms with completely equal weight. The Japanese looks dramatically different (they've used the English word for Elmina - and used 2 different alphabets) - but an English speaking person simply isn't going to notice a difference between "mother" and "mum". No player is going to get it even if I consistently use one or the other.  But it's not needed anyway, since she makes it clear here that she's talking about her real mother.  I think in real life, people will call both their real and adopted mother "Mum/Mom". It seems a bit silly to make an exception here - especially when the dialogue absolutely makes it clear who she is talking about.

The most I can do is to always use "my mum" when referring to Ifalna.  Not just "Mum said".  If I go the Japanese route here, we'd end up with something like "Mum" and "Mama" or "Mum" and "Ma"  - which looks silly and still doesn't get close to the difference the Japanese has.
 
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"Mum" is a very British way of saying it as opposed to Mom in Amurica. "Mahh" would make sense if FFVII took place in Boston -- no offense to Boston but please don't

I guess my point is that not all English is created equal.
 
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I know that. The American option changes all Mum to Mom, but the points I made are the same.  The Japanese above uses a loanword to differentiate - and even 2 different Japanese alphabets.  It would be like me using Japanese "Mom" for Ifalna and English "Mom" for Elmina. That's pretty much what the Japanese writers have done - though "Mama" is obviously well known over there.  Tifa calls her father "Papa" in literal English.

What I am saying is this is something that cannot be localized and doesn't need to be. In the same way, I haven't used "Papa" for Tifa's father, because it sounds ridiculous to me that a teenage girl would call her dad "Papa". Sometimes the literal doesn't work at all.
 
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All SFX are now done. I have a lot of checking to do - even created my own quick program to check loops and so on.  But it's looking good!

Total size 87 MB.
 
And probably sounds better!

I'm curios regarding the mother vs mum thing. In German Mutter (mother) is more formal you use it with emotional distant, while Mama (mum, though I think some do use 'Mam', but this are mostly teenager) is much closer and personal to yourself. Hmm, it's interesting that it doesn't much matter in English.
 
No probably about it. 

Where I live, we'd pretty much never use " mother" to our mothers.  We'd say "Hi, Mum".  But when saying "What is your mum called"  we may substitute mum for mother.  Mother is therefore slightly more formal.  It's also the case that mother is 2 syllables, and that this is often a deciding factor in what words a person will use. We often abbreviate names like mine (Daniel) to "Dan" - for that very reason.
 
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Regarding mama/papa, I've seen that used in English before, but mostly by teenage girls. Tifa might fit the bill assuming she only really toughened up (mentally) after the Niflheim affair. But maybe only in American English - the only form I can imagine with any kind of British accent would be hopelessly posh. In particular, the emphasis would go on the first syllable in AmE but on the 2nd syllable in BrE, giving it that posh twang. In AmE it's like a less childish form of "daddy"/"mommy" as far as I can tell, but still a pretty feminine thing to say.
 
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