[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.999992)

[Vaylen]

Chekhov can't be morphed. Shake can be morphed with patience and stacking a lot of accuracy (via dexterity and defense%).
Haste is strong, but it does have drawbacks. It makes buffs like Barrier and Shield expire faster, causes Dual and Poison to tick faster, and is much less effective at higher battle speeds or when a character is already very fast.

Battle speed is a particularly large factor in how useful haste and slow are. I thought they were overpowered when I typically played at low battle speed, but now I more often play with it maxed out and they're often not worth bothering with.

Also, between things like the Powersoul, Master Fist, Mime, Barrier, sadness, Cover + back row, Elemental, Conformer, White Wind, Magic Counter + Cure, Force Stealer + Counter Attack, 4x cut, and Bad Breath, Haste doesn't stand out as relatively overpowered to me.

I don't deny that there is other borderline "OP" stuff in this mod. But... "relatively" makes no sense. It's either too strong or not, no matter how strong other things are.
Haste still feels like it trivializes some encounters too hard(Slow does, too, now that I think about it).
But... it is very well possible that gamespeed is the root cause there. I play on very low battle speed, hence my perception might be warped by that.
This is kind of a nuisance, isn't it? I guess I'll try around with higher battle speeds... but I think there is merit in working on haste/slow being balanced at lower battle speeds.

Furthermore, if high dex diminishes the effects of haste, dex is a worse as a stat - setting haste is pretty easy, after all~ and the main purpose of dex is speed - the same as haste. As Haste is easier to obtain than Dex, the optimal strategy would be to limit the dex growth due to the existence of Haste.

 

[Sega Chief]

Recently did the Pagoda in Wutai... is it even possible to morph Shake and Chekhov?
The former seems basically unhittable with Morph, while the latter takes no dmg from physical attacks.


Additionally, isn't haste considered kind of overpowered? It seems to speed up the ATB gauge way too much and, even on arrange mode, feels like its trivializing some battles. If possible, I'd call for toning the speed increase down.

I encountered a bug with an enemy called Magpie(I think, it was somewhere in the Mideel area - a frog-looking thing).
I turned it into a frog(maybe mini, too) via added effect - and the game froze up.

I think Shake can be, but it's very difficult; probably not worth going for it.

About the Magpie bug, are you using menu overhaul/beacause mods or anything like that?

Sega Chief,

I'm nearing completion of this mod and plan to post some thoughts and minor bug reports. However, there's a somewhat "major" bug I'm experiencing. When trying to enter the crater with Cid or Tifa as my party leader, instead of entering the crater I'm instead taken to the Chocobo coop in the Highwind (actually in the black space on the other side of the entrance). This means that, in order for me to enter the crater, I need to have Cloud in my party. This seems to defeat the purpose of allowing the party leader to change in Disc 3. There are some other instances of Cid/Tifa entering rooms in weird places (for example, entering the cockpit area of the Highwind, Cid and Tifa will spawn where their NPC models are rather than the entrance to that room), but this is the only one that really affects the game. Apologies if this has been pointed out before or is intentional, and thanks for taking the time to read this.

Ah yeah that, it should have been removed as of the latest patch. I think it was added to fix something but started acting up. If you're on latest version and it's still doing it, let me know.

I don't deny that there is other borderline "OP" stuff in this mod. But... "relatively" makes no sense. It's either too strong or not, no matter how strong other things are.
Haste still feels like it trivializes some encounters too hard(Slow does, too, now that I think about it).
But... it is very well possible that gamespeed is the root cause there. I play on very low battle speed, hence my perception might be warped by that.
This is kind of a nuisance, isn't it? I guess I'll try around with higher battle speeds... but I think there is merit in working on haste/slow being balanced at lower battle speeds.

Furthermore, if high dex diminishes the effects of haste, dex is a worse as a stat - setting haste is pretty easy, after all~ and the main purpose of dex is speed - the same as haste. As Haste is easier to obtain than Dex, the optimal strategy would be to limit the dex growth due to the existence of Haste.

I'm fine with using Haste/Slow, mostly because I used it a lot when playing through the Hardcore mod and Nightmare7 mod; it feels good gameplay-wise to manage your speed to get the most out of your turns and curbstomp a boss that would otherwise be a handful. I'm willing to sacrifice balance at the upper end of things so long as it's fun.

As far as the gauges go, there's a point where they will get too fast for high Dex + Haste to give as significant an advantage as it would at lower gauge speeds but I see adjusting your ATB setting and gauge speed as part of your set-up. If the gauge goes too fast for it to be giving an advantage, then I'd just set the speed down a bit so I can make use of it properly.

 

[Vaylen]

Yeah, I am using the menu overhaul. Is that the cause there?


As long as it's fun... that's a good stance to take. I'll probably adjust the battle speed a little to reduce the effects of those effects.
Still, I remain that it may be worth nerfing in some way. Not a necessity, as I see the reasoning for it now.

 

[KittyJaws]

if i open my master save file of this mod (to reorder my characters) while not having the mod downloaded will anything be damaged?

 

[Sega Chief]

if i open my master save file of this mod (to reorder my characters) while not having the mod downloaded will anything be damaged?

I don't think so, but your exp gauges might look overflowed until you've levelled up.

 

[adj998]

Sorry I didn't know where else to post this. Where are the save files located? Somehow my saves are just gone and I really don't want to have to start over again. My install location is C:/Program Files (x86)/Square Enix. But a folder was also installed in my documents with the same folder name but only has cache and a bunch of P files.

 

[Sega Chief]

For steam: D:\UserName\Documents\Square Enix\FINAL FANTASY VII Steam\user_######

For 7H converted/original 1998 PC: D:\Steam\steamapps\common\FINAL FANTASY VII\save

Steam has a checksum for save files that is initiated when the FF7 Launcher is started. If any of the save files have been tampered with or were not made/updated with your copy, then it automatically deletes them. Save editors can cause this, but sometimes the cloud saving feature can also cause it.

 

[Jcdarden]

This was an issue that came up recently. I added a debug script to the Highwind to sort this out. If you talk to the technician that's moving around near the Highwind's Chocobo Pen (he's moving up and down, doing squats, etc.) he'll go through a few scripts; cancel the ones you don't want to trigger and set your ranks to what you want (1/8, 4/8, or 8/8).

The only script opportunity this guy is giving me is the Aeris alive/dead debug option. Do I need to reach the bottom of the crater or something for the rank script you mentioned to appear?

 

[adj998]

so....I'm screwed then? I don't use cloudsync for save files. I literally turned my laptop on and off and thats it

 

[Sega Chief]

The only script opportunity this guy is giving me is the Aeris alive/dead debug option. Do I need to reach the bottom of the crater or something for the rank script you mentioned to appear?

You need to be on the latest version of the files, should be 17th July.

so....I'm screwed then? I don't use cloudsync for save files. I literally turned my laptop on and off and thats it

It looks like it, I've never had my Steam saves delete on me so if cloud saves aren't being used then I don't know what the underlying cause would be or why it only affects some users and not others.

This is a copy of my own save files that I used for a test playthrough, with one at (most) points of the game:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/2dvuaivt0de5bbv/save_-_Copy.zip/file

What you could do is use the one that's closest to where you were (with adjustments using Black Chocobo save editor); to use them, open the FF7 Launcher and then place the save files in your user_##### folder for steam save files in D:\UserName\Documents\Square Enix\FINAL FANTASY VII Steam\user_######. When you load a file, save the game and this should lock that particular set of files in with the checksum and prevent them from being deleted when the launcher is next started.

The save file checksum is no longer a factor when converting the steam installation using the Game Converter as part of 7H's set-up. This recreates the game into the 1998 PC set-up and only requires that a drive or mounted blank ISO be called FF7DISC1 in order for the game to run (don't need to run 7H with it either, can just be run on its own). If FF7 Steam is going to wipe your save files, then this is likely the best route to go so you don't have to constantly make backups of your save files after you stop playing.

 

[adj998]

Thank you for the info. Couldn't I just move thee game directory somewhere else on my laptop? Like in documents, or some other place so it won't get overwritten? Or are the save files at risk of being over written no matter what? Also I never had the Steam/user ### directory before. It's always been just Square Enix folder and all the files needed to run the game. But every time I saved it always said it was stored locally so they had to have gone somewhere.

 

[Sega Chief]

Thank you for the info. Couldn't I just move thee game directory somewhere else on my laptop? Like in documents, or some other place so it won't get overwritten? Or are the save files at risk of being over written no matter what? Also I never had the Steam/user ### directory before. It's always been just Square Enix folder and all the files needed to run the game. But every time I saved it always said it was stored locally so they had to have gone somewhere.

Not sure, sounds like your setup is different. You'll need to locate your save files first of all, wherever they've ended up. Check through MyDocuments and also if there's a save folder in the FF7 folders anywhere.

 

[littlemac]

I don't know if this exists but is there a bestiary somewhere online? Something that just lists hp and whatnot of monsters in the mod? Really love it, btw.

 

[jugend]

Regarding the Cosmo memory getting Aeris's Fury brand from vanilla effect....

I like the idea of his LB granting party support, but honestly, I find current cosmo memory way too overpowered.

In vanilla, I viewed Aeris as the best character, because everyone could essentially become the same and have the exact same strengths, and what separates them is ultimately, Limit Breaks, and Aeris had the ability to give 2 LB's for 1 (and great gospel).


Now as it stands with Red XIII, I'm getting 9999 on all targets (damage on Carmine weapon) with Cosmo Memory, and 2 free Limit breaks, which are for me Omnislash and highwind/big brawl (cause I just got highwind).

This makes Red XIII's Level 4 Limit Break Objectively the strongest LB in NT, as it basically three for one, which makes his final LB god tier, no one else LB's can compete as it's worth is literally triple that of anyone else's.

I think the reason why Aeris limits were so crazily strong in normal is that they knew you couldn't take her to end game and to help immortalize her, they gave her incredible LB's.
So I really don't think their effects should have a place in NT. And I'd also like to add, Fury Brand was understandable on Aeris, even if it was overpowered. It did no damage, and she had no damage LB's so it made sense and fit in with her self-sacrifice character-arc. But it doesn't fit in with red XIII at all really.

I'd also like to point out that Aeris essentially Sacrificed her Limit for yours, making it two LB's for one. Red XIII's is not sacrificing his, he's just giving two extra on top of his, which makes it so much stronger than Fury Brand.

I like the idea of restoring some balance for Red XIII's limits, but this goes too far imo. As I've said before, I use all characters, and I find pretty equal worth in them all, and so far at least nothing massively elevates one character above them all without having some negatives, but this LB changes that. I'm now nerfing my party if I'm not using Red XIII due to Cosmo Memory alone.

Like I said I like the idea of his LB supporting, but I'd try it in another way. Maybe take on effect buffs for red xiii instead? Like maybe lucky pills effect, or maybe the vanillas effect of Big Guard? Lot of possibilities with buffs alone. If you do want to keep it with him filling other party members LB's, I'd at the least limit it to one party members instead of both. It's just too powerful as is imo.

 

[Vaylen]

I don't know if this exists but is there a bestiary somewhere online? Something that just lists hp and whatnot of monsters in the mod? Really love it, btw.

I support the idea of a bestiary.
In addition to that, I'd also like a document that lists weapons and abilities in detail(Showing their strength, too, for example).
Giving the player information in a strategy game is a good thing. It allows for informed decision making.
A spreadsheet containing information about magic, abilities, limit breaks and weapons(Especially the ones with special formulas/effects) would be really nice.

 

[Manifestations2]

Hi I don't know if this is a bug, or I'm just missing something massive, but Powersoul Keeper is impossible for me. He does not enter berserk and casts trine constantly once his HP reaches around 16k. He cast Trine, then attacked a character, I chose an action (quake 2 I think) then he immediately cast trine again before my characters performed anything. That is just one example, I've tried him for hours. Looking at other playthoughs on Youtube he barely casts trine, and goes into berserk at low level. They were playing the 1.4 version though. Any information you could provide would be great. Thanks.

 

[Sega Chief]

I don't know if this exists but is there a bestiary somewhere online? Something that just lists hp and whatnot of monsters in the mod? Really love it, btw.

Technically no, but if you download the Proud Clod tool hosted here on Qhimm and open the mod's scene.bin (located either in FF7/DATA/Battle folder or the FF7/DATA/lang-en/battle folder if steam) you can view enemy information that way: https://www.ff7catalog.com/threads/5580/

Regarding the Cosmo memory getting Aeris's Fury brand from vanilla effect....

I like the idea of his LB granting party support, but honestly, I find current cosmo memory way too overpowered.

In vanilla, I viewed Aeris as the best character, because everyone could essentially become the same and have the exact same strengths, and what separates them is ultimately, Limit Breaks, and Aeris had the ability to give 2 LB's for 1 (and great gospel).


Now as it stands with Red XIII, I'm getting 9999 on all targets (damage on Carmine weapon) with Cosmo Memory, and 2 free Limit breaks, which are for me Omnislash and highwind/big brawl (cause I just got highwind).

This makes Red XIII's Level 4 Limit Break Objectively the strongest LB in NT, as it basically three for one, which makes his final LB god tier, no one else LB's can compete as it's worth is literally triple that of anyone else's.

I think the reason why Aeris limits were so crazily strong in normal is that they knew you couldn't take her to end game and to help immortalize her, they gave her incredible LB's.
So I really don't think their effects should have a place in NT. And I'd also like to add, Fury Brand was understandable on Aeris, even if it was overpowered. It did no damage, and she had no damage LB's so it made sense and fit in with her self-sacrifice character-arc. But it doesn't fit in with red XIII at all really.

I'd also like to point out that Aeris essentially Sacrificed her Limit for yours, making it two LB's for one. Red XIII's is not sacrificing his, he's just giving two extra on top of his, which makes it so much stronger than Fury Brand.

I like the idea of restoring some balance for Red XIII's limits, but this goes too far imo. As I've said before, I use all characters, and I find pretty equal worth in them all, and so far at least nothing massively elevates one character above them all without having some negatives, but this LB changes that. I'm now nerfing my party if I'm not using Red XIII due to Cosmo Memory alone.

Like I said I like the idea of his LB supporting, but I'd try it in another way. Maybe take on effect buffs for red xiii instead? Like maybe lucky pills effect, or maybe the vanillas effect of Big Guard? Lot of possibilities with buffs alone. If you do want to keep it with him filling other party members LB's, I'd at the least limit it to one party members instead of both. It's just too powerful as is imo.

Maybe, yeah.

I support the idea of a bestiary.
In addition to that, I'd also like a document that lists weapons and abilities in detail(Showing their strength, too, for example).
Giving the player information in a strategy game is a good thing. It allows for informed decision making.
A spreadsheet containing information about magic, abilities, limit breaks and weapons(Especially the ones with special formulas/effects) would be really nice.

While I would recommend the other tool, Wall Market, for viewing that info it has visual basic dependencies that mean it doesn't run out of the box without some legwork. I could put something together but it'll probably fall out of date relatively quickly.

Hi I don't know if this is a bug, or I'm just missing something massive, but Powersoul Keeper is impossible for me. He does not enter berserk and casts trine constantly once his HP reaches around 16k. He cast Trine, then attacked a character, I chose an action (quake 2 I think) then he immediately cast trine again before my characters performed anything. That is just one example, I've tried him for hours. Looking at other playthoughs on Youtube he barely casts trine, and goes into berserk at low level. They were playing the 1.4 version though. Any information you could provide would be great. Thanks.

That was a fairly old bug, are you using the IRO from the 7H catalog? Either update using the main installer or download the IRO from the link on front page of this thread and use that instead.

 

[levantine]

Hey !

Downloaded the last version and have some question, is that normal that steal materia give -25%hp penality? Also chocobo have a -50 str and osmose skill has been removes (only have esuna and resist on the materia) is all this case normal or did i have a trick somewhere?

 

[kamek523]

When is the Documentation going to be updated? I'm using the excel sheet for steals/morphs/drops but it's very inaccurate. Some bosses are different now, some were added, a few enemy skills were moved/changed. It's very hard to search through this massive thread for every tiny change that was made. Are there patch notes somewhere?

 

[Sega Chief]

Hey !

Downloaded the last version and have some question, is that normal that steal materia give -25%hp penality? Also chocobo have a -50 str and osmose skill has been removes (only have esuna and resist on the materia) is all this case normal or did i have a trick somewhere?

No, the .exe sounds like it's not been patched. If you check in the main installer folders (or 7H folders if you downloaded the IRO) you should find some .exe files you can use to replace your current one. Sometimes the patcher doesn't get the .exe correctly, and 7H has no way to patch an .exe directly at present.

When is the Documentation going to be updated? I'm using the excel sheet for steals/morphs/drops but it's very inaccurate. Some bosses are different now, some were added, a few enemy skills were moved/changed. It's very hard to search through this massive thread for every tiny change that was made. Are there patch notes somewhere?

It'll be a while, it takes time to rewrite it all. Your best bet at the moment is to download the Proud Clod (PrC) tool and open the game's scene.bin (this can be done even while the game is running) and using its built-in search function to find enemies and check their stats which also lists their steals, drops, and morphs: https://www.ff7catalog.com/threads/5580/