[FF7R] Remake Compendium

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You're right that most fans wanted this remake to be an update of the original.  They did not want it to be  completely re-imagined
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While i dont have any particularly strong feelings regarding anything recently mentioned in this thread, this sort of caught my curiosity. I too would genuinely be interested where this idea/thought comes from because I find it odd. I mean I doubt you have any studies or large sampled randomized polls to reference here which is obviously fair enough and would be an unreasonable/silly expectation, but any explanations to actually back up this claim you present in such a strong/factual way other than feelings based/anecdotal ones stemming from exposure to what is a, in terms of distribution of opinion regarding this topic, potentially very biased echochamber (used in a relative and non derogative, but merely descriptive way here, replace with environment if it helps) that is the qhimm community (which apart from a few others is the central hub for modding the original game) or your close friends.

According to the public reception the majority of the fanbase is pretty excited about what has been shown so far of this remake. (unless everyone who likes this just "wasnt a real fan" or something silly along those lines, which i doubt you will claim as it would be easily refutable through various means of statistics). Also I am purely referencing the technical aspects regarding update vs reimagination and this is not taking into account the a bit more widespread/understandable mixed feelings towards the specific aspects of using an episodic format and shown/potential future dlc content, as your statement was clearly broader than that ( again reimagined vs update ).

And even if broad public reception woudnt be as strongly to overwhelmingly positive as it is, the term most, which is the one you used, means a strong majority and would actually require a moderate to strong negative (or at the very least mixed If you would want to go with the "they will take what they get but still wouldve preferred" narrative) reception to be valid here, so I truly feel like you have no basis whatsoever to make this claim and as far as anyone looking at this objectively it is simply untrue.
 
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What the "fans" wanted 10 - 15+ years ago, in my impression, was a "polished" FF7, within the same genre, style, and tone; not a re-imagined game. And, imo, it would be reasonable to assume any game would be remade within the same genre, style, and tone.

Yes, the game will probably be received well overall (imo the evidence suggests that much), but, again, how the game is marketed plays a huge role in the "fans" perception on SE's decisions (duh!), and if SE had a completely different approach to the remake I think it's fair to say that the "fans" would accept that too (as long as the direction is within reason, ie not making FF7r into a tetris clone).

And on the Tifa chest thing. The reasoning to not make her breasts jiggle is to give her a sport-bra 'cause that would be more realistic; she is a fighter after all. Yes, that is more realistic. But why give her those socks? And change the mini-skirt? Why not make her hairstyle more realistic; she is a fighter after all? The reasoning here doesn't make sense, considering other design elements. No, it's fair to assume SE's ethics department (LOL) are afraid of backlash from a certain group who will never play this game. Or perhaps they already caved in from pressure from the certain said group? Or perhaps SE's ethics department IS that group?  :o
 
Oh yeah I agree with mostly everything you mentioned regarding this topic particularly the narrative that fans would likely be just as excited if it was in fact fully turnbased etc, its just really not what he said nor how he presented it which was emphasizing that this is not what (most) "fans" want(ed) or how they want(ed) it which is simply not true (unless he can provide any evidence of the contrary which im of course open to).
 
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They also probably focus for a PEGI 12 rating rather than 16. Totally forgot that point. Having Tifa with her original design and with realistic physics... well, that would probably count as sexual content and will rise it from 12 to 16.
 
And on the Tifa chest thing. The reasoning to not make her breasts jiggle is to give her a sport-bra 'cause that would be more realistic; she is a fighter after all. Yes, that is more realistic. But why give her those socks? And change the mini-skirt? Why not make her hairstyle more realistic; she is a fighter after all? The reasoning here doesn't make sense, considering other design elements. No, it's fair to assume SE's ethics department (LOL) are afraid of backlash from a certain group who will never play this game. Or perhaps they already caved in from pressure from the certain said group? Or perhaps SE's ethics department IS that group?  :o
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Yes, I agree. Her hair is the most unrealistic aspect for a woman who specializes in hand-to-hand combat. But we all know hair doesn't promote sexuality.
 
god im tired of hearing that they changed Tifa to appease feminists. of course they bloody didnt, if they did they would cover her up completely. its only to reach a bare minimum of censorship (a badly set standard at this point) like Kaldarasha mentioned. theyre still obviously trying to keep her sexualised in some way (the stockings, miniskirt etc) and this time it makes less sense, and thats the worst part. shes a tough brawling bartender in a rough part of town, a tank top and leather skirt makes sense. now she looks like a wimpy schoolgirl/pop idol, which is a whole other nonrelated fetish. if youre going to keep her sexy, make her sexiness make sense in context.
 
Senix would have spared a lot of trouble had they not mentioned "ethics department" and instead said something else, even if it was total nonsense like "She finally realized Cloud stole her Orthopedic Underwear during the Nibelheim incident and took it back."
 
Just seen the images of Tifa.. thigh-high stockings, what the devil?  In the olden days, Sega censored those in the streets of rage series.  It makes no damn sense to me to remove some "sexual" aspects only to "bolt on" new ones, changes for changes sake perhaps?
 
While i see where youre coming from and agree with the paragraph about monetary incentive in principle (personally i never disagreed with it in the first place), this wasnt about why they made this remake and wether or not they were doing it for the /for the love of the fans, but merely about your assumption of the majority of fans expectations and them being fulfilled or not.

Your position was/is based on the factors: Qualities of source material, why it gained so many fans in the first place, and the fact that this is a remake of said source material, which at first glance makes the stement that most fans didnt want what we seem to be getting a logical conclusion. And without data to the contrary I would have tended towards agreeing with you / coming to the same conclusion.

The problem is that you still draw your conclusions from logic even though experimental/conclusive "data" is already available which shows that this is not how it plays out/ended up playing out effectively/after all. This "data" (being the relatively overwhelmingly positive widespread reception) simply didnt confirm the hypothesis and ended up showing us where the logic didnt pan out (much like with any scientific experiment where the tests dont end up confirming the hypothesis). In this particular case it seems to be the part about what ended up remaining important to fans regardless of what drew them in originally. It seems that (much like with anything else in life actually) the majority 1: Has relatively superficial expectations and 2: has different quality standards and preferences than you assumed (and possibly myself if i had thought about this for a bit before any real data was available) 3: Values visual nostalgia above most else.

Now its late and i dont want to go in too deep but to quickly go over the points you mentioned; Considering what exactly we ended up getting and it still being received as it is we can conclude that most fans didnt put their emphasis on:
Wether it was strict to the source or heavily reimagined
About translation accuracy
Concrete content of story additions (guardians of fate sounds like a retarded addition indeed btw)

And rather seem to care for:
Relatively superficial nostalgia ("I used to love tifa" "Cloud is a badass" "I remeber first time in midgard" etcetc)
Visual Fidelity (seems to be particularly impactful to a grand majority)
Modernised mechanics (wether or not they are objectively good is another topic and irrelevant to this question) that superficially reference the source material but give off a "fresh feeling" (there is "materia", The "classic" limit breaks are back, "oh i remember this boss", "cant wait to see jenova in HD" etcetc)

Overall it seems that nostalgia combined with heavy modernisation on all fronts is what is most important to the majority of fans as opposed to accuracy towards the source material and general authenticity. Overall way more superficial factors than you assumed.

And while I am not necessarily saying that I agree the fans expectations, I will say that it seems that your expectations of the fans were set too High. "The masses are easy to please" seems to remain true here, and therefore your conclusion at the time of the statement wrong.

And this was the point of my comment regarding your statement about what "most" fans want.

Now this isnt to say that there might not still be negative outrage at some point with the introduction of new elements of any kind but at the time of this comment it seem "most" fans want(ed) this.


Now moving on from this on a lighter note: Its hard to put into words how much I hate the preorder/deluxe/whatever incentive exclusive summon dlcs. I Genuinly hope those wont be really exclusive but merely "get them earlier than when you unlock them in the game" Summons. Sadly I suspect the worst and It will probably be something along the lines of heavily timegated until free/ free upon release of episode 2 type of strawberries, or even worse paid micro dlc. This kind of stuff is borderline aggravating.

Reference shots for those who havent seen them yet:

https://23-allgamesdelta.s-ul.eu/fWUV3cAM
https://23-allgamesdelta.s-ul.eu/vbut4T9v
https://23-allgamesdelta.s-ul.eu/DbEmsqg6
 
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Yes, I agree. Her hair is the most unrealistic aspect for a woman who specializes in hand-to-hand combat. But we all know hair doesn't promote sexuality.
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I think the remake model is fine, that being said the model they just came out with for Dissidia NT for her is cuter/closer to how I imagined her. It's a bit more stylized/video gamey which is maybe why they went for the more lifelike look. Also she looks more like half-Japanese in dissidia, whereas she seems more Japanese in the remake, I remember they did say they wanted Tifa to be the more Japanese looking girl and Aeris to have a more European/westernized look.
https://imgur.com/C376EIc
 
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What the hell is this guy talking about?? Real-time action is more true to the spirit of FF?? What drugs is this guy on? Didn't know they allowed you to be this ¤%&#d up at E3.

lol sorry for the insult, but most of his comments are total BS. Did SE pay him?

Haven't watched the 2nd one, dunno if it's worth...
 
I think the true to the spirit comment and a few others are silly indeed, but hes definitely not paid by SE hes been a huge ff7 fan for forever, theres a full playlist of him playing ff7 original and gushing about it constantly, and hes overall been fanboying alot about ff7. Hes just excited and doesnt mind/ just likes the changes i guess. Kinda evident hes just sortov fanboying in excitement in this vid too i guess.
 
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Be that as it may, its relatively entertaining when coupled with the serious reactions to it  :)
 
and that by changing it to a modern turd, they'll also reach out to a wider fanbase.  And they're right.
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Actually they are wrong, the original reached as wide as they could possibly hope for - and catering to a few feminists will result in the opposite.
 
I mean I doubt you have any studies or large sampled randomized polls to reference here which is obviously fair enough and would be an unreasonable/silly expectation, but any explanations to actually back up this claim you present in such a strong/factual way other than feelings based/anecdotal ones stemming from exposure to what is a, in terms of distribution of opinion regarding this topic, potentially very biased echochamber (used in a relative and non derogative, but merely descriptive way here, replace with environment if it helps) that is the qhimm community (which apart from a few others is the central hub for modding the original game) or your close friends.
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Look man, the original players of Final Fantasy VII dreamt for years about the original with better graphics than the original blokes. That is also why in the year 2006 people started to mod the game and add the battle-models as field-models - which was revolutionary! I do remember how excited i were back then to play FF7 PC with the battle-models in the field. It felt like an entirely new FF7 - the way we always imagined it.

It started with just the main characters and the main enemies - such as the Turks, Rufus, Sephiroth, Palmer and Hojo - and expanded onto the rest of the characters and even the NPC:s. What we all wanted, both modders and players - was to play the game again with good models in the field instead of those old original models. The battle-models were not used in the field in the original PSX-version because of the limits of the PSX - when we wanted a PS2 port the whole idea was the same game with you know PS2 models.

Same is true for the PS3 port and later PS4 - of course we are happy with whatever we get, but i am 100% certain that most players and fans of the original only wanted to play the same game again with better graphics/models - that is why the modding community here was super-big back in 06-07. I had a Youtube channel back then (it got removed because of some videos breaking copyright) where i did play the entire FF7 PC game with the Rejuvenation project models - i did have videos with over 200k viewers etc. All the videos back then were limited to 11 mins. So i had about 210 episodes with FF7 and the modified models. Nowadays the modded FF7 is old news, but back then it was basically the remake we'd wanted - the only thing better would be an official remake with even better graphics than what us fans could accomplish.

Well, FF7R is that project, but not everyone likes the changes or the new style of the characters - many would have kept to the original.
 
So far around 2500 people have played a heavily restricted version of the combat system... That's 2500 people that are serious when it comes to video games, with roughly 100 odd of them being games journalists....

And the overwhelming majority had there mind blown, if there was something game breaking or disagreeable someone would of said something by now, all the 'major' issues people have had are entirely artistic, or NPC/SJW issues, gameplay changes, character development, overall design and new content are all solid from almost all accounts, all from an excessively limited build from current versions available...

I get the feeling the watchmen of fate or whatever they are called are gonna be potentially some form of quest tracker as from what squenix is saying midgar is massive and it seems like a novel way to guide the player in an open world environment, that would make thematic sense in the updated story
 
So far around 2500 people have played a heavily restricted version of the combat system... That's 2500 people that are serious when it comes to video games, with roughly 100 odd of them being games journalists....
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Interested on where you got these figures from?  :)  If that many "serious" gaming people have had a played an (albeit cutdown) version with few complaints, it is indeed encouraging.. depending on the definition of a "serious" gamer type of course :)
 
Nope, having none of that.

DLPB - Two wrongs don't make a right. You're almost always on the defense when you go over board. Just let it go.

-Ric- That was beyond childish and certainly not within the boundaries of The RULES. Grow up.

Don't let that conversation continue, or I'll shut you both down for the weekend.
 
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