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Tenko Kuugen
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If you like a bad game, those things are the goddamn same thing
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hian
Guest
More lazy acts, made solely to cash in on old glory. That's SE for you.
I bet they won't even bother to update the textures. It will probably just look like what FFX looks like when emulated on a good pc, with maxed out settings. Maybe not even that good. It's not much different than the so called "remakes" of the nes/snes games on the psx - but at least those remakes where warranted in the sense the a large portion of the US/Eur audience never got to play the originals to begin with.
This is just rehashing for the sake of profit because making a new game, or remaking the older ones is "too much work".
And some still wonder why a lot of people now criticize SE?
It's so disingenuous it hurts. Yeah, remaking 6-9 would be a lot of work, but not nearly as much as people seem to think, especially if you consider all the different production methods available to them.
It would take ages if they where to make it look like FF13 - The questions is, why should they?
FF7 doesn't need a FF13 facelift(and doing so would screw over the original art to begin with).
CC was released for PSP for gods sake. Making a three disk PSP game with CC level graphics, wouldn't require half the work of FF13, and most people would still be overjoyed.
This site itself proves how fast a pretty high-quality HD remastered version of FF7 could be made, if it had a dedicated team of payed game devs.
They could even use the original engine if they wanted to, as the people here are. It all depends on how much of a facelift they are going to give, and what console they would be aiming for.
At the end of the day though, if they're willing to give FFX a minor facelift and re-release, they really have no excuse for not doing the same to the older games considering that most of them already has re-releases in ther original formats(I.E waste of time).
Retouch the backgrounds, the 3D models, the textures, the music, the gameplay balance, and the writing, and we'd have a FF7-9 that would at least be passable until(or if) a proper remake is made - This is possible, and wouldn't take SE that much time nor money, and if it had been released through the PSN instead of the original versions, it would probably have sold much better as well. They didn't, yet now they're doing an even shoddier, yet similar work on FFX.
Seriously. What kind of shit is that?
I bet they won't even bother to update the textures. It will probably just look like what FFX looks like when emulated on a good pc, with maxed out settings. Maybe not even that good. It's not much different than the so called "remakes" of the nes/snes games on the psx - but at least those remakes where warranted in the sense the a large portion of the US/Eur audience never got to play the originals to begin with.
This is just rehashing for the sake of profit because making a new game, or remaking the older ones is "too much work".
And some still wonder why a lot of people now criticize SE?
It's so disingenuous it hurts. Yeah, remaking 6-9 would be a lot of work, but not nearly as much as people seem to think, especially if you consider all the different production methods available to them.
It would take ages if they where to make it look like FF13 - The questions is, why should they?
FF7 doesn't need a FF13 facelift(and doing so would screw over the original art to begin with).
CC was released for PSP for gods sake. Making a three disk PSP game with CC level graphics, wouldn't require half the work of FF13, and most people would still be overjoyed.
This site itself proves how fast a pretty high-quality HD remastered version of FF7 could be made, if it had a dedicated team of payed game devs.
They could even use the original engine if they wanted to, as the people here are. It all depends on how much of a facelift they are going to give, and what console they would be aiming for.
At the end of the day though, if they're willing to give FFX a minor facelift and re-release, they really have no excuse for not doing the same to the older games considering that most of them already has re-releases in ther original formats(I.E waste of time).
Retouch the backgrounds, the 3D models, the textures, the music, the gameplay balance, and the writing, and we'd have a FF7-9 that would at least be passable until(or if) a proper remake is made - This is possible, and wouldn't take SE that much time nor money, and if it had been released through the PSN instead of the original versions, it would probably have sold much better as well. They didn't, yet now they're doing an even shoddier, yet similar work on FFX.
Seriously. What kind of shit is that?
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DLPB_
Guest
ahh but Hian, as you said.. when Enix talks about remaking FF7, it does not mean remaking it as we know it. It means messing about with it so that it is in full 3D and has tons of needless cutscenes that weren't there before. For example, when Sephiroth and Zax scuffle in the reactor, Zax is easily beaten as you would expect, but if they remake it, they will want a useless AC battle sequence there that lasts 5 minutes.
This is the problem/. It is their mindset. They want biggerer and betterer, when they should realise that often the simple is more dramatic and less likely to test suspension of disbelief (that AC did ALL the time). When you do things for the sake of doing them, you f*ck things up. See Lucas.
It shocks me how so many people do not understand dramatic tension. When you have a scene that is intending to show a characters power and insanity, the best way to do it is short sharp and to the point. It beats any amount of long fight any day. If you show a battle lasting 5 minutes, not only is it completely unrealistic and unbelievable, but it takes away from the scene. It makes your strong character look weak and it breaks the persons attachment to the fictional world they are experiencing. This is even true in Martial Arts movies. The reason Bruce Lee movies are so good (aside from the fact he was a master) is that he made it so most times, when someone is smashed in the face, they are out cold. He tried to make it as realistic as possible for the genre... it was done in way that made it believable and powerful. No sped up footage or completely unbelievable garbage.
The best examples of people doing the opposite are Star Wars Ep III where Anakin and Obiwan are fighting on lava and the whole of Advent Children.
People today, and sadly those at Enix, have this idea that "Big graphics = better" and although they will sell to the most mindless among us, it certainly isn't a good thing for fiction to have these totally out of control fight scenes. Not only that, the amount of time to create them is ridiculous. A complete waste of man power.
Graphics if used in a non sensible fashion can ruin the balance of any story or gameplay, as they did with XIII and MGS4, Star wars prequels, Advent Children and a growing number of works. It is completely basic understanding of fiction. Graphics should always be used to enhance the story or gameplay, not a vehicle by which to sell the said story or game. Graphics can never make a story or game, they can only enhance what is there.
If you are using graphics to sell something, you have failed from the start. The reason VII, MGS1 and star wars original endure for well over a decade is because they had depth and quality. The reason Star Wars Prequels ,AC, MGS4 (among other things) will die out, is because there is nothing there except graphics, and appeal to fanboyism, and in time, they become dated or lose their appeal.
This is the problem/. It is their mindset. They want biggerer and betterer, when they should realise that often the simple is more dramatic and less likely to test suspension of disbelief (that AC did ALL the time). When you do things for the sake of doing them, you f*ck things up. See Lucas.
It shocks me how so many people do not understand dramatic tension. When you have a scene that is intending to show a characters power and insanity, the best way to do it is short sharp and to the point. It beats any amount of long fight any day. If you show a battle lasting 5 minutes, not only is it completely unrealistic and unbelievable, but it takes away from the scene. It makes your strong character look weak and it breaks the persons attachment to the fictional world they are experiencing. This is even true in Martial Arts movies. The reason Bruce Lee movies are so good (aside from the fact he was a master) is that he made it so most times, when someone is smashed in the face, they are out cold. He tried to make it as realistic as possible for the genre... it was done in way that made it believable and powerful. No sped up footage or completely unbelievable garbage.
The best examples of people doing the opposite are Star Wars Ep III where Anakin and Obiwan are fighting on lava and the whole of Advent Children.
People today, and sadly those at Enix, have this idea that "Big graphics = better" and although they will sell to the most mindless among us, it certainly isn't a good thing for fiction to have these totally out of control fight scenes. Not only that, the amount of time to create them is ridiculous. A complete waste of man power.
Graphics if used in a non sensible fashion can ruin the balance of any story or gameplay, as they did with XIII and MGS4, Star wars prequels, Advent Children and a growing number of works. It is completely basic understanding of fiction. Graphics should always be used to enhance the story or gameplay, not a vehicle by which to sell the said story or game. Graphics can never make a story or game, they can only enhance what is there.
If you are using graphics to sell something, you have failed from the start. The reason VII, MGS1 and star wars original endure for well over a decade is because they had depth and quality. The reason Star Wars Prequels ,AC, MGS4 (among other things) will die out, is because there is nothing there except graphics, and appeal to fanboyism, and in time, they become dated or lose their appeal.
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Cazador
Guest
I'm going to get it but I wish they did more than just upscale. I haven't been really impressed with the quality of HD in most remakes but it's good to be able to play them again.
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nfitc1
Guest
Where's your source on this? I don't remember anything official either way. What you say makes sense though, but even if FF7 would literally require a ground-up re-writing, FF8 and 9 shouldn't. Perhaps SE doesn't want to release 8 or 9 without giving 7 its due course, but then why skip from 4 to 10?! 5 and 6 only got a PS re-release and a GBA update. 4 got those, but then got the DS makeover as well. They may have decided from sales of the 4DS that remakes of that caliber aren't worth it.They have already stated that FF7 would take too long to do in HD. i.e. they can't be arsed puttin in the effort of an older game when they can get by on the mediocrity of the new ones. Why spend 10 years making FF7 in 720p when you can rerelease FFX etc with a simple upscaling and make a wedge of money.
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DLPB_
Guest
Their exact quote was it will take 10X longer than FF13
http://forums.exophase.com/showthread.php?t=12649&page=1
http://forums.exophase.com/showthread.php?t=12649&page=1
Kitase:
We’ve gotten this question a lot from many countries (laughs). To make FFXIII at this level of quality, it took us 3 to 4 years. If we were to make FFVII in the same style of FFXIII, it would take 10 times as long, so it would be difficult to take it up immediately. However, we always keep in mind how often this is requested.
It is outrageous what Kitase is saying there, he is blatantly admitting that a game from 1996-7 had more quality than todays games.Corrected:
FF7 was a quality game, and to create a quality game these days in our precious HD takes too much time. Yawn. Graffix = Sales so get used to it.
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hian
Guest
The key part of that post, which pisses me off the most, is the "if we where to make it in the style of FF13" -
Again, why the hell would they do that? And why would anyone want that?
The game could be remade in several ways that would allow it retain present day quality, and yet be done much faster than what is claimed by SE officials.
The entire premise is ridiculous which is why the timeline is ridiculous as well.
Furthemore, games like Oblivion, GW2 Skyrim, GTA4 etc, don't even take 10 years despite their massive amounts of content(more than FF13 by far), which in terms of gameplay and content is much closer to classical era game design than FF13 is.. Even if we grant the FF13 premise, it still wouldn't take 30-40 years to produce a FF7 remake of FF13 standards.
It all comes down to internal company issues, laziness and probably a large dose of insecurity, knowing that if they screw up a FF7 remake, they'd probably lose all credibility as a company in the eyes of a large amount of people.
If they'd bother to put together one large dedicated team, instead of wasting work-power on multiple shitty spin-offs at the same time etc, spendt some time trying to get deals with the original team, and interacting with fans of the original game, a remake could be done in the same amount of time it takes to produce any other game.
At the end of the day, producing games might have gotten more time-costly and expensive, but if you consider the increase of funds and technological advances in the franchise altogether, making games today isn't necessarily more difficult than it was back in the PSX era. If FF7 is impossible today, it should have been impossible back in the days too.
It obviously isn't lack of possibility that is stopping SE from remaking FF7-9 - It is lack of will, and risk VS the fact that it's much simpler to rescale FF10 and milk that for what it's worth instead.
Wait a year or so, and they'll make HD version of FF10-2, and FF12 as well. Maybe we'll see a few more cheap shots at selling the PSX 1-6 as a campaign packet for PS Vita.
Again, why the hell would they do that? And why would anyone want that?
The game could be remade in several ways that would allow it retain present day quality, and yet be done much faster than what is claimed by SE officials.
The entire premise is ridiculous which is why the timeline is ridiculous as well.
Furthemore, games like Oblivion, GW2 Skyrim, GTA4 etc, don't even take 10 years despite their massive amounts of content(more than FF13 by far), which in terms of gameplay and content is much closer to classical era game design than FF13 is.. Even if we grant the FF13 premise, it still wouldn't take 30-40 years to produce a FF7 remake of FF13 standards.
It all comes down to internal company issues, laziness and probably a large dose of insecurity, knowing that if they screw up a FF7 remake, they'd probably lose all credibility as a company in the eyes of a large amount of people.
If they'd bother to put together one large dedicated team, instead of wasting work-power on multiple shitty spin-offs at the same time etc, spendt some time trying to get deals with the original team, and interacting with fans of the original game, a remake could be done in the same amount of time it takes to produce any other game.
At the end of the day, producing games might have gotten more time-costly and expensive, but if you consider the increase of funds and technological advances in the franchise altogether, making games today isn't necessarily more difficult than it was back in the PSX era. If FF7 is impossible today, it should have been impossible back in the days too.
It obviously isn't lack of possibility that is stopping SE from remaking FF7-9 - It is lack of will, and risk VS the fact that it's much simpler to rescale FF10 and milk that for what it's worth instead.
Wait a year or so, and they'll make HD version of FF10-2, and FF12 as well. Maybe we'll see a few more cheap shots at selling the PSX 1-6 as a campaign packet for PS Vita.
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DLPB_
Guest
That's the fundamental point, they have this notion and plan that FF7 would need to be in full HD with tons of cutscenes and tons of FMV... that's not what I want anyway! I want FF7 to have a good pacing, not out of control sh*tty graphics.
You can see the cogs already turning in Kitase's brain....
You can see the cogs already turning in Kitase's brain....
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kicker
Guest
Just so that i am clear, i don't support in any way any companies here and i don't defend them either. We may discuss our opinions about the reasons that the companies don't develop a lot of good games any more, but the thing is that the game world has become really competitive and the world's economy has changed quite a lot this last years. I can't say for sure if the competition makes square drop the quality of the games or the bad economy but surely these are some reasons too.
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BloodShot
Guest
And this, ladies and gentleman, is the difference between liking a game for legitamite reasons, and being a fanboy.A lot of stuff about suspension of disbelief, tension, storytelling, and shit
If you are using graphics to sell something, you have failed from the start. The reason VII, MGS1 and star wars original endure for well over a decade is because they had depth and quality. The reason Star Wars Prequels ,AC, MGS4 (among other things) will die out, is because there is nothing there except graphics, and appeal to fanboyism, and in time, they become dated or lose their appeal.
People who say you have to "stop living in the < insert era>" have to get their heads out of their asses and actually think about what the other person is saying. An example of this is the reason I like Battlefield 2 infinitely better than the bad company series. It has nothing to do with living in the past, it has to do with the fact that despite both being good games, BF2 has better teamwork elements, better coordination, and rewards players for contributing to the team, whereas BC2 tries to, but fails because It doesn't have as solid of a system with which to base it's teamwork on. The framework is there sure, but it's poorly implemented compared to BF2, there's very minimal squad communication unless you are in a clan, there's no noticeable in game chat unless your in a context-sensitive situation, where people don't even hear the in game voices anyway - while the commo rose in BF2 gave you access to radio commands and squad orders whenever you needed, as well as allowing for people to respond even without VoIP. DICE are acknowledging this by making BF3 more like the older games, and not just disregarding them because they are "old"
Even though the graphics are great, again, they are using it to enhance the gameplay, not as a selling point of the game.
Even if it's not in a case where a game doesn't improve upon its predecessors the point still stands. I don't like Quake 1 better than Quake 4 because I'm living in the 90s, I like it because its environmental design, atmosphere and monsters are more recognizable because they are different from other things, where as Quake 4 is the typical space-marine-fights-aliens-game, and it's apparent that much less work went into interesting designs.
Sure, YOU might not like Quake 1 better but don't dismiss someone's thoughts on something because it's old. That's just being ignorant.
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Tenko Kuugen
Guest
We have long since established that some people just can't get around to let go of their goddamn fanboyism and use logic
Because that'd be behaving like actual sentient life.
Because that'd be behaving like actual sentient life.
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nfitc1
Guest
Todays quality games like, DNF? The market is saturated with dumb games and the quality games are harder to find. It does seem that games that spent more times on visuals lack in gameplay or story and vice versa. Since FF7 is a quality game it would take a long time ( though not really 30 years) to get the graphics on par with the rest of it.It is outrageous what Kitase is saying there, he is blatantly admitting that a game from 1996-7 had more quality than todays games.
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DarkFang
Guest
Not sure if it's true or not but..
http://techdeville.com/2011/09/23/final-fantasy-x-for-the-ps3-and-ps-vita-will-be-a-proper-remake/
http://techdeville.com/2011/09/23/final-fantasy-x-for-the-ps3-and-ps-vita-will-be-a-proper-remake/
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sl1982
Guest
Now that I really do not understand. Why fully remake X? Disregarding peoples opinions on FFVII, it really is a guaranteed cash cow.
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Bosola
Guest
Honestly, games have not become demonstrably worse over the last decade. I can think of scores of piss-poor PSOne games and even more horrid SNES / MegaDrive era titles. The only reason 'classic games' seem better is that, by definition, you forget the unmemorable elements and recall only the extraordinary titles.
FF post FFX has been fairly crap, though. I guess FFTA-2 was... tolerable, but XII and XIII were fucking dire.
FF post FFX has been fairly crap, though. I guess FFTA-2 was... tolerable, but XII and XIII were fucking dire.
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DLPB_
Guest
My 3 favourite series have. FF, MGS and Resident Evil. All of them are worse now. I did not mean "games" I meant FF games.
There is also a tradition these days to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Everything has to be 3D and shoot em up style.
There is also a tradition these days to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Everything has to be 3D and shoot em up style.
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Covarr
Guest
Eh, I don't believe it for a second. If this was true, the bigger sites, or at least a few that are known for reliable leaks, would be all over it.Not sure if it's true or not but..
http://techdeville.com/2011/09/23/final-fantasy-x-for-the-ps3-and-ps-vita-will-be-a-proper-remake/
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Bosola
Guest
There is also a tradition these days to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Everything has to be 3D and shoot em up style.
Then I'd better leave you to enjoy lofty classics like the 18 (eighteen!) identical NBA games and Austin Powers Pinball.
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sedef122003
Guest
I agree that 13 was not very good but I personally consider 12 to be one of the best games in the series.FF post FFX has been fairly crap, though. I guess FFTA-2 was... tolerable, but XII and XIII were f*cking dire.
In regards to the 10 remake/remaster I will most likely play it as I enjoyed the game but it is not something I would have asked for
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Armorvil
Guest
Same here.If they gave ffx the same treatment the god of war games received I would purchase it. I enjoyed ffx and have not played it in a long time.
I like FFXII, and would even buy it if they released the International Zodiac Job System with HD graphics & 60 FPS, on PS3. Sure, the story and dungeons are boring - both sometimes sleep-inducing, but if you take it like some kind of pretty and immersive hack n'slash, it delivers nicely.FF post FFX has been fairly crap, though. I guess FFTA-2 was... tolerable, but XII and XIII were f*cking dire.
As for FFXIII, since I could finish it once and complete all the side-quests, it couldn't really be considered a bad game (bad games I can only play for 10 minutes at max). I even know people who like the game. But it's definitely a bad FF. The story is indeed moronic and the whole gameplay so restrictive, you'd be forced to do the exact same things again (be it in the menus, on the field, or in battle) if you were to play through it a second time. It's like, the epitome of linearity, not only in the story & the environments but also in your gameplay choices. Most of the time, it's either "do it" or "don't do it" (Ravager -> Stagger -> kill enemy ; advance in the crystarium or don't... ...and don't get me started on the equipment system).
...I don't know why I felt the need to rant about FFXIII : most of you are already convinced of its flaws >.>
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