Project edge and discord

[Tsuna]

I understand your points, I'm just not sure what the end goal is.
What is the conclusion you would like to reach with this conversation?
The forum still exists and always will, modders still post here when they release something, and the reason the forum is quiet is because all the members themselves all moved to Discord.

What is the ideal end of this conversation that you would like and how can we get there?
Because we can't bring everyone back, they all chose this route themselves.
And all the mods and the forum are still here and updated whenever a release happens.
So what is it that you would like to happen when this conversation ends?
Otherwise the conversation has no purpose other than to express dissatisfaction about something that nobody can help with.
I just wanna know what your goal is and how you plan to get there.

 

[Quid?]

In the end, it isn't us keeping the 3000+ qhimm forum members from not posting anymore.
They're all in Discord, and by their own choice. We didn't force them there.
If you want the forums back alive and booming, it's them you have to convince, not us.
We aren't withholding posts, people themselves have chose not to post here and to use Discord instead.
That's just the way it is. We have no control over it.

If myself and Bonez decided fuck it, screw Discord, forums are king! And posted here every day with you.
Nothing would change. The numbers don't lie. People just prefer Discord. I'm sorry

I know. Other than mounting illegal operations to bomb discord out, there is nothing effective to be done. Didn't mean to say this is your doing, it is, as always in the end, the majority's doing. Since I am in fact not that motivated to pick this particular hill to die on in the litteral meaning, it isn't I who will bomb discord out of existence, and since it woudn't put back a djinn which has long been out back in his bottle, it probably woudn't be that effective anyway.

But just saying that there is a problem and try to explain what it is can't do any harm, and maybe make at least one or two people to think, to see where it is. Never know who might read. Though there is probably not much more to say here, I have seen far more meaningless discussions drag on with points rehashing multiple times and going effectively nowhere without it bothering anyone.
Out of every discussions going on on the internet, very few ever get anything done after all. I was never much interested in those and I really don't want to drag this one either. Someone else said things that seem valid to me and no harm saying you agree either.

Though, I know even the people who use it much coudn't probably explain how it happened, I still wonder how discord sinked forums when other, and apparently very similar chat tools weren't before. As ff7maniac said, it's just fine if your thing is chatting in real time, but it should not have to be everyone's thing, especially when you have a question to which you hope a very effective answer from someone with more knowledge than you on it, for example. I ask very few questions because I doubt that the people with the answers will even read them nowadays. And that's too bad, considering the gold mine that is the qhimm forum where I eventually found or re-puzzled for myself most of the answers I was looking for in old threads.
Well, that's it.

 

[ff7maniac]

I don't have any particular expectations because everyone doesn't care... it's a discussion forum and I just wanted to make my point of view known, as I said I'm not against discord but it is sure that one day jusete will post for example 1 2 3 new scene on discord then will connect on qhimm after for example 1 month and a half or more and will forget to post the scenes etc, then we are told it is available in torrent, in this in that but on discord or you have to ask someone here because there is no updated link here. if it had a .rar or . iro with all the scenes updated each time on the first message of the project edge topic it would be a good alternative where we are told it's updated in 7th heaven but for that you have to be able to use it, if you play a version other than the american version the game doesn't work it seems to me or if people prefer to install their mods themselves. it's like for mcindus and ff8 he gives news pretty much everywhere except here. or else I would see project edge having its own site like moguri mod for ff9.

 

[Bonez]

Quote from: GeoffreyMc Jefferson on April 29, 2023, 10:27:00 am
Discord is good for one thing only and that is real-time conversations. It's not good for sharing media, it's not a good place for lengthy in-depth discussions and it's certainly not a good way to preserve conversations in a digestable format that's easy to follow for outsiders. In fact due to it's always scrolling nature, it's DESIGNED to make conversations disposable and hard to follow for outsiders coming in.

If this is a accurate description of how discord work, then it is indeed even worse than I thought and it isn't even half deserving to be the forums doom that it yet managed to become. But here we are and too few people seem to care, so, I hesitated but here I am again to say that I agree.

Actually, none of that is true anymore... Discord now has a fully fledged forum system.

Those are all permanent topics in the "Echo-s bugs" subforum... Just saying... It's not taking the forum's place, but it has more potential than ever to do so. It actually is good for everything now. lol... If it wasn't for the 25 years of information we have built up here, it would probably go that way.

 

[Quid?]

Well, it seem better than I thought then. Thanks for the screen, maybe someday I will just get past that registration check and see how I like it after all. It just woundn't stop me from posting on forums where I might have something worthwhile to share, that's all. People woudn't have to throw away discord in order to check forums and post from time to time is really all I wanted to say at the end I think, the two things don't exclude each other.

 

[GeoffreyMc Jefferson]

Actually, none of that is true anymore... Discord now has a fully fledged forum system.

Those are all permanent topics in the "Echo-s bugs" subforum... Just saying... It's not taking the forum's place, but it has more potential than ever to do so. It actually is good for everything now. lol... If it wasn't for the 25 years of information we have built up here, it would probably go that way.

Ok, that solves exactly one problem with Discord. That however still doesn't change the fact everything that is posted there still happens inside the Discord ecosystem. Content posted there is not indexable by any search engine or something like the Wayback Machine. If anything happens to Discord, or the community gets deleted for whatever reason, that will be the end of it. Everything posted there will be lost forever. It's a completely closed-off ecosystem that nobody who doesn't have/doesn't want a Discord account can access and that is the main problem here I think. If independent forums can clearly exist, I just don't see the need to make yourself rely on a platform that runs on proprietary servers, is closed-off to outsiders and at a constant risk of losing everything that was ever posted on there, because Discord, the company, owns the platform and the servers. Not to mention their policies decide what is free speech and what isn't. They are free to censor or shadowban you if they don't like your opinions, it's the same with Reddit really.

As an independent forum owner, platforms like Discord to me if anything should be considered a threat. A threat to free speech on the internet, a thread to preservation of conversations/information for the future, a thread to the independence about the way people have discussions on the internet.

I can't help but wonder, why are people in this day and age so OBSESSED with completely giving up their independence and blindly handing over control over major aspects of their lives to big corporations? I'd say the way we communicate is a pretty major aspect. It almost seems like people buy into the "you will own (and control) nothing and be happy" thing.

 

[ff7maniac]

sbwy4_6 by Shunsq

Removed link as field is broken and not ready for release - Bonez

 

[Bonez]

Whoa slow down. What Shunsq posted wasn't sliced properly. It was corrupted or something. What you just posted doesn't work in-game.

 

[ff7maniac]

and well sorry but for those who don't have discord it's impossible to know.... and then since no one bothers to post the new scenes here anymore. i just do my possible to give access to the new scenes. i'm sorry if this offends some people.

 

[Bonez]

There hasn't been anything new for anyone to post...

 

[ff7maniac]

if there is really nothing new then why did I find a link ?... something must have been posted somewhere at some point for a link to be made available. here no one bothers to give us news of the project the only answer that we do have from staff, you etc is (go to discord go to discord like a robot) it will soon be a year that jusete did not connect here. There are several images of scenes that Shunsq made and here we have no preview

this one is jusete

I ask you the question in all honesty, okay, why don't you, the staff etc close the forum? If no one posts the progress of the mods, the links etc and 7th heaven, qhim, and the other projects have their own site or their discord etc, why don't you close the forum if you think that it is no longer useful to anyone ?

 

[Bonez]

?... something must have been posted somewhere at some point for a link to be made available.

You found a link because whoever runs that website ripped some test stuff from the discord and posted it without testing it. Not because anyone is keeping anything from you. It's not my fault they jumped the gun.

here no one bothers to give us news of the project the only answer that we do have from staff, you etc is (go to discord go to discord like a robot)

Because that is the only answer. I can't make Jusete and Shunsq post here.

it will soon be a year that jusete did not connect here.

It will soon be a year that jusete hasn't posted any real content in the discord too. He has other stuff going on in his life besides making fields for you.

There are several images of scenes that Shunsq made and here we have no preview

Yeah, they're previews that Shunsq posted in Discord. Again, I can't force Shunsq to post here. But regardless, there haven't been any actual field releases for them to post here. It was said the finished fields would be posted here. He never promised anything about posting previews or anything else here.

I ask you the question in all honesty, okay, why don't you, the staff etc close the forum? If no one posts the progress of the mods, the links etc and 7th heaven, qhim, and the other projects have their own site or their discord etc, why don't you close the forum if you think that it is no longer useful to anyone ?

That's just silly. This isn't the Jusete/Project Edge forum. It's the Qhimm forum and there are new posts here everyday.

These are just posts that I haven't read. I can't help if it's not things that interest you. I don't know why you've started on this Discord tangent again, but cut it out. You constantly nagging about it isn't going to change anything and I've had to purge far too many conversations with you about it from Jusete's thread. Every time you start talking about Discord in the Jusete thread, I'm just going to keep merging it over here.

...I was just letting you know what you posted was broken...

 

[ff7maniac]

sorry if what I said was taken the wrong way. i apologize for that . I know you can't force anyone to post here but you or other staff members follow the progress on discord right? it would just be nice if someone gave us news from time to time that's all I'm saying.

 

[Bonez]

Seems you know where to find them and have no problem posting them, so why don't you just post them when you see they come out without the little passive aggressive notes every time? Those aren't going to accomplish anything

 

[ff7maniac]

I always ask first if there is anything new, that way the people concerned, creator, modder etc, will maybe post them themselves. I am not the creator and it shouldn't be up to me to do it to post them here, when there is something new i do it because no one does it. There are probably people who don't want to download them anywhere other than here for reasons already mentioned etc. There must also be people who don't want to download the entire iro file every time something new comes out, it can probably also be useful for people who don't want to or can't use 7heaven for x reason. Here you can download without needing an account, which is not the case on Discord, Nexus, etc. that's why I do it.

 

[Bonez]

Right, you've said most of that before, so again:

-Jusete posts the finished fields as soon as they're ready as well as progress updates, previews and conversation on the discord. This is THE source.
-The fields are uploaded to the 7H catalog shortly after. Usually within a day or so. You can use the mirror site to download via browser and unpack via IRO tools. 7H not required. No accounts required. https://tsunamods-codes.github.io/7th-Heaven-Catalogs/
-The fields are available via torrent in folder form. Usually updated within a day or so. if you don't want to download the whole thing every time, this is the option for you. No accounts required. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...bc8478e19e45cca22861e5034a6bdb1a13e89ac55555&
-Jusete posts the finished fields here. Admittedly not always as quickly as other options. You're going to wait an unknowable amount of time.

*- It appears as though SoulEvan now lurks the discord and grabs the fields straight from there to put on his site (or someone else on his behalf). But, be careful. He's pulled WIP stuff and posted it in a broken state without doing his due diligence. sbwy4_6 is still on his site despite it not being finished and in a broken state. I've tried to tell him, but it's gone ignored.https://finalfantasy.german-syslinux-blog.de/FF7/

Jusete doesn't owe it to you to do what you want and in the way you want it done. It's his prerogative. You have options. If you're only willing to use option 4, then that is on you.

We've already been through that.  None of that is changing. That's all a non-issue.

So you admit you keep asking to try and goad jusete into posting. Well, yeah that's pretty transparent, but obviously not working.

You say it's not up to you to post them, yet you do it anyway. It's not my job to post them either, yet I've done it several times without complaining. It's not really my responsibility to put them up on the catalog either, yet I do it anyway. It's not really Urquan's responsibility to manage the torrent, but he does it anyway. It's not really SoulEvan's responsibility to host the files on his mirror site, yet he does is anyway. And It's not really Jusete's responsibility to post them anywhere. He made the things, he's committed to releasing them in the manner that he has seen fit (discord) and posting them here is secondary. That's the end of it. Anything beyond that is up to us collectively.

I'm just saying if you're going to post them and be helpful, great. Do it. Or don't, I don't care. But don't do it AND be a passive aggressive jerk about it. None of that is going to accomplish anything.

 

[ff7maniac]

I'm not a jerk, I never insult anyone in my messages, while you seem to want to look down on me. The only thing I'm trying to do is offer the new scenes but the old way for people who want them that way, that's all. I am not a sheep or a robot that goes beep beep that dives off a cliff because the one in front does it, it seems to me that it is not a crime to remain more traditional or to do things differently from others. I understand, next time I will write my questions, my answers and my messages like a robot without feelings, is that okay ?

 

[Bonez]

I'm not a jerk,
The only thing I'm trying to do is offer the new scenes but the old way for people who want them that way, that's all.

and as usual here nothing..

well, since no one wants to take care of it...

You know what you're doing and I know what you're doing.

while you seem to want to look down on me.
I am not a sheep or a robot that goes beep beep that dives off a cliff because the one in front does it, it seems to me that it is not a crime to remain more traditional or to do things differently from others. I understand, next time I will write my questions, my answers and my messages like a robot without feelings, is that okay ?

You're definitely putting words in my mouth here. I have no idea what you're talking about. Looking down on you? I'm not berating you for refusing to use discord and wanting to remain "traditional". You've brought all that up, not me. Again I'm just saying you don't need to wait 'til you know a new field has come out, then start asking if a new one has come out when you already know the answer (there is no reason to do this). Then proceed to post the thing you're asking for while acting like it's strange that it hasn't been posted here when you know the deal. As if we haven't had this exact same conversation over and over for the past 3 years (and I'll once again have to merge this conversation out into the separate thread about this). You've just started being passive aggressive about it instead of outright complaining.

 

[ff7maniac]

AND be a passive aggressive jerk about it. None of that is going to accomplish anything.

You call me a jerk, if that's not talking down to me, what is? I wasn't passive aggressive, I expressed my resentment, I didn't tell anyone to fuck off, I didn't insult anyone, if it's gotten to the point where we don't even have the right to freedom of expression and express our resentment, etc. anyway, I said it now I'm going to write like a robot, that's all.

 

[Bonez]

You call me a jerk, if that's not talking down to me, what is?

I didn't just call you a jerk. I said you were being a passive aggressive jerk about asking about and posting the fields. A jerk as it relates to being passive aggressive. That's a very important distinction.. It's the crux of the entire conversation.

I wasn't passive aggressive, I expressed my resentment, I didn't tell anyone to fuck off, I didn't insult anyone, if it's gotten to the point where we don't even have the right to freedom of expression and express our resentment, etc. anyway, I said it now I'm going to write like a robot, that's all.

No you didn't express your resentment. You asked questions you knew the answer to to try and goad responses. And said things like "well since no one else is going to do it, here it is..."
Those aren't expressly stating your resentment. You're expressing resentment indirectly, through actions rather than direct communication. That is the definition of passive aggressive. You've brought up the discord issue again. I just said to stop being passive aggressive as a round about way to to bring it up. But that's all besides the point: If you want to express your resentment some more, you can do that in the previous thread that I'm going to merge this into with the rest of it. This thread is for Project Edge, not for you to express your resentment for how it's released. Your resentment was noted 3 years ago. That's enough.


So again, if you want to post the fields, Fine, do it. The rest is unnecessary. Any resentment here, passive or otherwise will just be purged at this point.