[SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!

[-Ric-]

also using flawed original English translation to make a point about original story prob isn't a good idea

Point made.

Sorry but, your translation work, regardless of the time you invested and how good it might be, never was and never will be... "original". The game is what the game is.

s7 convo is about the pillar which shinra do deliberately blow up to kill avalanche.

Correct. it's just to prove a point that Shinra would've no issues blowing up a reactor.

 

[MysticLord]

We're well into best girl territory at this point, someone should make a poll.

If FF7R is released on PC you can always mod it to remove the retcons and restore original outfits. It's not a big deal, though it is funny that SE can't tell a decent story to save their lives.

 

[Caledor]

Jessie was surprised her bomb caused such a massive explosion. *cough cough*. Yet the 2nd bomb causes exactly the same kind of explosion.

First reactor has a massive explosion from the top, while the flames cover up the bridge completely.
5th reactor's burst barely makes the bridge outside it tremble.

Yeah, totally the same explosion. Not to mention that Reactor 5 is shown working to charge up the Sister Ray later, unlike Reactor 1.

Shinra would never.

I said that there's no evidence that they blew up Reactor 5, not that they wouldn't.

your translation work, regardless of the time you invested and how good it might be, never was and never will be... "original". The game is what the game is.

Original is the japanese. Anything else is prone to errors. Anyone using that even more so. Chinese whispers/telephone game.

 

[-Ric-]

First reactor has a massive explosion from the top, while the flames cover up the bridge completely.

That's a pretty good point.

Don't Cloud and Barret plant the bomb somewhere near the bottom of the reactor?

Again, not saying Shinra did but to claim people have to somehow be on drugs to come up with that is pretty sad. It's an absolute possibility.

Original is the japanese. Anything else is prone to errors. Anyone using that even more so. Chinese whispers/telephone game.

Yes. European, American, Australian, African players all around the world are going back and looking at the Japanese release for references whenever they think of Final Fantasy 7.

Absolutely.

 

[Caledor]

4 out of 5 fields in reactor 1 and 5 look identical, except a different shade of color. Including the two where the bomb is placed. The one that's different is the entrance/exit. R1 has the Biggs/Jesse code doors, R5 has the buttons minigame.

Yes. European, American, Australian, African players all around the world are going back and looking at the Japanese release for references whenever they think of Final Fantasy 7.

If you build up a conjecture from a translation mistake, and someone shows proof of that mistake, what do you do? you keep stubbornly clinging to it? Again, I didn't say you should. I said you're exposing yourself to a risk. This is the second time in a row you twist my words, try to be more careful.

 

[-Ric-]

If you build up a conjecture from a translation mistake, and someone shows proof of that mistake, what do you do? you keep stubbornly clinging to it? Again, I didn't say you should. I said you're exposing yourself to a risk. This is the second time in a row you twist my words, try to be more careful.

I'm open to changing my mind. Where is that "proof" though? Is there a major translation mistake in the two quotes I posted earlier? Please do share if so.

 

[-Ric-]

The original English PSX version of VII had Zeng die and tifa's bar was a shop.  Should we keep those too?

The story is the Japanese source from 1996.  Nothing else.  None of the retcons. None of the material afterwards.  And certainly not a totally flawed English translation from 1997.

I'm not sure what you mean by "keep" but they should absolutely be taken into account. That's how 99.9% of the world played the game. It's kind of a big deal, you know?

 

[-Ric-]

It doesn't matter if god played it - the story is what the original writers intended - not what a localizer on a tight deadline accidentally made happen.

What a localizer on a tight deadline accidentally made happen is what you, I, and most of the world got to experience.

You can argue all you want that it's not right, that there are mistakes and there definitely are.

It's still what most of the world experienced and therefore, it's an absolutely valid thing to take into consideration.

And I'm still waiting to get educated on the "proper" translation for the two quotes I posted. I'd love to know what is wrong in them. Do tell.

 

[-Ric-]

It's not valid at all. And certainly not when you're using that flawed translation to then explain a title 20 years later by a totally different localization team again working from a new Japanese script. You're not making any sense.

Ahem.

I'm open to changing my mind. Where is that "proof" though? Is there a major translation mistake in the two quotes I posted earlier? Please do share if so.

What are the big mistranslation in those quotes exactly?

 

[Caledor]

Again, not saying Shinra did but to claim people have to somehow be on drugs to come up with that is pretty sad. It's an absolute possibility.

Yes, the chance is not 0%. But it's definitively not 100% like you claimed earlier. Again, there's no evidence.

If we wanna talk about the remake, it doesn't prove anything about details the original as long as the end result doesn't change.

Spoiler

Remember we're dealing with a different timeline here. For what it's worth, it could'be the Watchman of Fate's doing to tone down or enhance the explosion so it suits their needs. Or any other minor difference we spot. Like Cloud and Reno fightning. Nobody should care about changes from the original game. Cause it's literally not the original game.

I'm open to changing my mind. Where is that "proof" though?

I just said be careful. Don't treat it like gospel cause it's far from it. I did not argument it further cause it's a mere warning.

I'm not sure what you mean by "keep" but they should absolutely be taken into account. That's how 99.9% of the world played the game. It's kind of a big deal, you know?

This is the most frequent argument brought up against any retranslation. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion like this is, so i'll just share mine: I don't care. If whatever percentile of the world has been lied to and i can amend, i'll do it. And i'm not talking about name transliterations or meaningless stuff like that, but big character personality and plot altering mistakes.

If the whole world still thinks that Red XIII is stoic and brave and when given the chance you don't amend it "cause the masses know him like that" you've sinned twice.

Again, my opinion.

 

[-Ric-]

It doesn't matter if god played it - the story is what the original writers intended - not what a localizer on a tight deadline accidentally made happen.

But you're arguing FF7r is status quo and you have no leg to stand on.  Or pillar.

https://imgur.com/a/0wPOXoV

Isn't that your work? Certainly seems to suggest Shinra blew up R 5. Or that they were at least comfortable with letting it explode. Which matches pretty well with the "bad translation".

Source:

So, what exactly was the issue with the two quotes I posted? Am I going to find another similar outcome if I waste my time checking this walkthrough out for the 2nd quote?

 

[-Ric-]

So basically all the posts about my use of two "flawed translation" quotes turn out to be bullshit as your "accurate" one can be interpreted exactly the same way as the original.

Waste of time...

This remake retcons utterly huge parts of the original story.  That isn't a statement of opinion.

No one's arguing that the remake is 100% faithful to the original, at all. You'll find no one to debate you on that.

 

[gjoerulv]

If there are conflicts in interpretations, I say go for the most reasonable one. A LOT of things are possible, or, not impossible.

It is not impossible for Shinra to blow up the reactor(s) themselves, but the most reasonable interpretation, imo, is that Shinra let Avalanche blow up r5 after r1.

If they retcon Shinra to being the ones who 100% certainly blew up the reactors, it's not necessarily a bad retcon. But, I dunno, did Han shoot first? We can't have the good guys do bad stuff now, can we?

Anyway, it's not technically a retcon if this is a brand-new story.
But if it is indeed a sequel, then it's 100% retcon territory.

 

[The Black-caped Man]

Rofl Shinra could blow up sector 7 and blame it on avalanche because everything existing there was JUNK!
The reactors are their income so no way in hell would they blow that up to fight "vermin" like avalanche, they would rather extinct all their possible hideouts, interrogate every slum citizen, etc.
Anything else would be unreasonable. God what a stupid world do we live in if ppl honestly swallow that shit and think it's a believable story twist. Reminds me of Kathleen Kennedy explaining the return of the Emperor because quote "GEORGE LUCAS NEVER GAVE US A BODY!" Whats next? Sephiroth is really a girl?! And that was hinted in the original game, long hair, female looks....jup I buy it. Same level of stupidity.... :

 

[-Ric-]

If there are conflicts in interpretations, I say go for the most reasonable one. A LOT of things are possible, or, not impossible.

It is not impossible for Shinra to blow up the reactor(s) themselves, but the most reasonable interpretation, imo, is that Shinra let Avalanche blow up r5 after r1.

If they retcon Shinra to being the ones who 100% certainly blew up the reactors, it's not necessarily a bad retcon. But, I dunno, did Han shoot first? We can't have the good guys do bad stuff now, can we?

Anyway, it's not technically a retcon if this is a brand-new story.
But if it is indeed a sequel, then it's 100% retcon territory.

Very fair take.

 

[LeonhartGR]

Alright just raw watched the ending haha! So part 2 will be happening in around let's see... 2 years from now? If world is still alive until then!

P.S.: There's nothing to spoil since it's all a huge mess that I guess SE is going, or at least we are hoping to be fixing in the next parts. Anyways...

 

[mr_nygren]

This is EXACTLY smth that a freaking graphics designer and character artist like Nomura just doesn't get: The old FFs characters were partly so iconic because they were FANTASY characters and not real ppl. They looked half like anime characters at best and even the ones of the Super Nintendo games looked bad ass because you were not given every single detail and pixel of a man/woman: You were given some sort of a mantle(sprites on the SNES and polygon models on the PS) that had little detail to it and yes that was the best one could produce in those days, however a completely forgotten positive side effect of those games was that by that everybody playing this game could INTERPRET this characters details in his own mind and thus easier project himself into a character, a world and live it through in ones mind and it became his own personal fantasy. And that was the magic of Final Fantasy.
That doesn't mean that bad graphics is good and newer suck always or anything but at least in a Final Fantasy game I expect some little space for my own fantasy, some space for my interpretation of things and not another mans 4k HD vision of every pixel forced into my head.
The best and closest approximation of FF7 characters (that I am sure everybody would have liked btw) is the artwork of the manuals and the models of the FMV sequences. Those are the characters as we got to know them and they will be like that forever. With todays methods you can make them look pretty much exactly like that in a smooth way and everybody would be happy....except for Mr. Nomura

I do agree with you, but not about SNES stuff- I really liked the upgrade from SNES to PSX. And I always wanted an upgrade for the FF7 chibi models. But as you state the artstyle or FMV is the best.

The odd thing is that Nomura drew those as well. I have no idea why he didn't keep to his original work.

 

[mr_nygren]

hahaha- true story too!  They couldn't see up it though, hence the white panties became black.

Point about Aerith is she isn't meant to be hot - she's meant to be cute, innocent, pure.  That's whole point of that love triangle - Tifa and Aerith are opposites.  Her longer dress was deliberately to contrast with Tifa's for example (developer interview from '90s).

This might just be me.. But doesn't the original FF7 give you German WW2 vibes? Cloud should be a Western guy based on his clothing, the city, the soldiers etc- while Aeriths adoptive mother is the very arch-type of house-wife from Germany or similar Western country back in the day.

Tifa on the other hand and Yuffie are clear Japanese characters. Point is that Midgar is like a mix between the United States and Nazi Germany- the companies of the States and the soldiers and setting of the Reich.

Wutai is Japan.. Just my take.. The Remake kept the German-styled city of Midgar but replaced the "Germans" with "Japanese".

Aerith is more like a Western old-school young woman in the original.

Edit:

Think of the military Parade of the original in Junon. Rufus Shinra is standing in his car with his hand stretching forward just like Hitler did in his mercedes.

Also the marching.. A lot like the german army as seen in old videos. With the weapon moving up, down and forward.

 

[Az]

Finished the game today. I enjoyed it. The overall plot is mostly preserved until the end of the Shinra Building, at which point it goes nuts. I've played FF7 almost yearly since 1997. I'm not opposed to something new and exciting. Dull treasure and an overwhelming amount of damage sponges on the standard difficulty are my main issues with the game, not the new plot direction. The more emotional moments from the original game were definitely given the right amount of love and are much more impactful in the remake, especially the events at the end of Sector 7.

 

[BahamutSIN]

Junon with its militaristic themes, soldiers and banners looks quite ww2 esque. But Rufus himself is more like Kim Jong Un to me: a ruthless young authoritarian inheriting an empire from his father.

Midgar could be a Japanese view of America: advanced, corporate, with unequal socio-economic divide, exploitative, domineering, had been in war with Japan (Wutai) and dealing with domestic terrorism. For a slum person, living on top of the plate would be an 'American Dream'. Additionally, remake's President Shinra looks laughably similar to Trump.

But reactors and ecological themes could have been inspired by the Chernobyl disaster, which caused worldwide panic in the 80s...

I think Sephiroth and Hojo are the most similar to nazis, Sephiroth is obviously like Hitler, considering that he sees regular humans as inferior to Cetra,

Spoiler

even though he's not a Cetra himself.

Hojo is like Mengele, an evil scientist that experiments on humans.