[SPOILERS] Star Wars Episode 7: Ticking All The Wrong Boxes [SPOILERS]

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Considering there are five reviews (at least five) on IMDB heavily criticizing the film for the reasons I have given (and a lot of critics praising the "feminist" approach), I can't agree with that. They saw the film.  So are they wrong too?
 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/reviews?filter=hate

In fact, there's one right there recommended by hundreds.
9. Clear liberal Hollywood feminist propaganda, I don't mind a strong female lead at all! But did they have to make her a completely unrealistic super woman!? She learns she has force powers, figures out how to use said force powers by her self in what could have only been a couple days at most and beats the hell out of the multi year trained bad guy apprentice!!!
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So, people do agree with me.  People who have seen it.

One review is entitled: Feminist garbage!! (126 out of 232 people found the following review useful)

Here's the thing.  You've admitted that these things do happen - so I am wondering how me watching it happen is going to change my view?
 
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There are also at least five (closer to five hundred) reviews that say the film is perfect, and those are also wrong. If people saying it makes it true, then wikiality is reality, and by that very definition the film is an 8.7/10 (which, keep in mind, is higher than I gave it) because IMDB said so. IMDB user reviews should be taken with a grain of salt because the vast majority of IMDB users see the world in black and white. Either something is perfect or terrible, nothing in between.

In actual reality, one-star and ten-star reviews can almost always be discarded, because people decided the score they were going to give and only watched the film to build a case. Ten-star reviewers knew they were going to give a ten-star review before they saw it, and one-star reviewers knew they were going to give a one-star review before they saw it. It's the 3-7 star reviewers who actually have a hint of an idea what they're talking about, but on IMDB they rarely do.

I'm one of the most conservative people I know. I voted for Romney, I voted for McCain, and I get as annoyed as anyone when I see something that smells like propaganda. But despite specifically looking for it, I didn't see it, because though I was searching for it, I wasn't going in with the hopes of finding it. I did my best to go into the film without any bias. I know absolute zero bias is impossible, but I got as close as I could. I was ready to find it great, terrible, okay, mediocre, or anywhere in between.

It's really easy to hate something when you form your opinions in advance, agree with reviews that agree with your preconceived notions, and then disregard anyone that disagrees with you as fanboys, and it definitely seems like that's exactly what you've done here. You decided (and proclaimed) how you felt about it when it was first announced, before even the teaser was shown, and without even a first-hand frame of reference, judged the reliability of reviews entirely based on how well they aligned with what you'd already decided to feel about it. That's the textbook definition of confirmation bias.

All that having been said, I don't think you watching it will change your view. But even if I concede the leftism thing, a good two-thirds of what you have said about the film has been measurably wrong. I'm just asking you either to inform yourself properly before you speak (by seeing the movie) or not to speak. Substantiating an opinion only based on the views of one group is herd mentality, whether you're on the 10/10 herd or the 1/10 herd, and it's better not to have an opinion at all
 
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I made my opinion based on what I know for a fact is in that movie. It is there and I can make an opinion on it. You may have a point if this was only one or two people making the complaint - but it isn't.  It's very common. An awful lot of people are calling the movie out on it (way too many for this to not be a problem) - and I am one of them - watch or no watch.

I suppose next time I should just pretend I've seen it and structure a response on it - that way I'd have saved us all this unnecessary back and forth.
 
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“We wrote these characters but when we went to cast it, one of the things I had felt, having been to the Emmy’s a couple times — you look around that room and you see the whitest ****ing room in the history of time. It’s just unbelievably white. And I just thought, we’re casting this show and we have an opportunity to do anything we want, why not cast the show with actors of colour?” JJ Abrams
 
I suppose next time I should just pretend I've seen it and structure a response on it - that way I'd have saved us all this unnecessary back and forth.
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That would just make you poorly informed and a liar, and based on the number of facts you got explicitly wrong about the film, such a lie would become immediately obvious. I suppose that's a good move if you're trying to lose people's respect.

All you're doing here is pooping in the punch bowl. Is it not enough not to enjoy it, you have to ruin it for everyone else who might have enjoyed it too? Angry, poorly informed complaints won't stop anybody from seeing the film, they won't prevent more from being made. Literally the only thing your ranting could possibly achieve is to make people less happy, and I sincerely hope that's not your intent. Heck, the constant obsession with things you don't like can't possibly make you feel better either. At best, you'll share mutual dislike of something with someone else, but there's no joy in that, only salt.

As I said, you're well within your rights not to see it, or even to watch it and not to like it, but if you're not going to see it, then say you're not going to see it and move on like a normal, decent person instead of maintaining an unnecessary and unproductive hostility.
 
That would just make you poorly informed and a liar, and based on the number of facts you got explicitly wrong about the film, such a lie would become immediately obvious. I suppose that's a good move if you're trying to lose people's respect.

All you're doing here is pooping in the punch bowl. Is it not enough not to enjoy it, you have to ruin it for everyone else who might have enjoyed it too? Angry, poorly informed complaints won't stop anybody from seeing the film, they won't prevent more from being made. Literally the only thing your ranting could possibly achieve is to make people less happy, and I sincerely hope that's not your intent. Heck, the constant obsession with things you don't like can't possibly make you feel better either. At best, you'll share mutual dislike of something with someone else, but there's no joy in that, only salt.

As I said, you're well within your rights not to see it, or even to watch it and not to like it, but if you're not going to see it, then say you're not going to see it and move on like a normal, decent person instead of maintaining an unnecessary and unproductive hostility.
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You are 100% right in everything you wrote, however, it's a battle you cannot and will not win.
"Common sense is not so common."
 
@covarr Considering I am largely repeating what other people are saying (because I agree with them) about things that are in the movie, the "lie" would not be immediately obvious at all.  There are dozens of reviews out there saying exactly what I am and they are from people who have watched the film.  You are not making any sense, because to criticize my view as meaningless means all the other people who watched it and are saying the exact same thing are equally invalidated. Me watching it won't change that. And we're going around in circles, so I am stopping here. I will never watch the film anyway, so I'm gonna stay happy and keep my money.

“We wrote these characters but when we went to cast it, one of the things I had felt, having been to the Emmy’s a couple times — you look around that room and you see the whitest ****ing room in the history of time. It’s just unbelievably white. And I just thought, we’re casting this show and we have an opportunity to do anything we want, why not cast the show with actors of colour?” JJ Abrams
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Thanks for that.  It's making more sense now. I suppose someone with such an insane and twisted outlook on life is bound to let that creep into a film he/she  makes. That's a shocking quote, tbh. And imagine someone with that twisted (and sounds racist to me too) opinion being allowed near a film of this scope.
 
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Thanks for that.  It's making more sense now. I suppose someone with such an insane and twisted outlook on life is bound to let that creep into a film he/she  makes. That's a shocking quote, tbh. And imagine someone with that twisted (and sounds racist to me too) opinion being allowed near a film of this scope.
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Yup, it's not so much what you know as who you know and what you're willing to do to get ahead and fern others over. That's why it's called Hollyweird and uses up and spits out talented people and promotes untalented people.
 
I wonder if a film maker said the same thing about black people whether he'd still be directing a "blockbuster".  Not a chance. But it's ok to be racist against white people, you see. I didn't know Jar Jar Abrams views or leanings until you posted that and I went researching.  But, yes, he's a total gone-in-the-head leftist, so no surprises there.  This kind of crap is widespread too.  Leftist film makers and actors are routinely promoted over those with a Right inclination.  This guy stands out to me (he explains how the situation is an epidemic):


"I lost so many friends on a private level."

I don't agree with everything he says, but he's spot on about Hollywood being a thought police club.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tv-executives-admit-taped-interviews-193116


“Most of them didn’t Google me. If they had, they would have realized where I am politically,” he said. “I played on their stereotypes. When I showed up for the interviews, I wore my Harvard Law baseball cap — my name is Ben Shapiro and I attended Harvard, so there’s a 98.7 percent chance I’m a liberal. Except I happen not to be.”
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Shapiro is a classic.  I love that guy :)
 
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It was a good movie, can confirm.

I think DLPB has spent more time trolling this movie that he's not seen than the time it would have costed his life in actually seeing it.
 
It was a good movie, can confirm.

I think DLPB has spent more time trolling this movie that he's not seen than the time it would have costed his life in actually seeing it.
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Stating it's a good movie with no substance isn't really any type of confirmation. And your argument to the person, rather than debating the flaws I listed, is even less encouraging.

Additionally, if I had watched it I'd be a lot angrier because I'd be out of pocket and part of this corporate scam (my opinion).  So, all things considered I am happier to piss against the wind.
 
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Well aren't you as positive as the arse end of a battery.

While I did enjoy it, I do see a fair amount of the flaws, Rey in the 2nd half, not enough explanation about Kylo's motivations, who the hell Snoke is etc, hopefully Episode VIII explains some of it.
 
Yes, my quest to find a film I am happy with continues.  Luckily, Season 6 of Game of Thrones is on its way and I'm almost sure to like that :)
 
This thread has now evolved into personal attacks and disrespect. From this point, any personal attack will result in a +20 warning level, regardless of what happened previously in this thread. This thread will also be locked. I am confident you can keep a civilized discussion in here, please don't prove me wrong. ~Vgr
 
I guess people don't understand how Sith train their apprentices.  He learns the bare bones basic to fulfill the main guys agenda at the time.  This is evident by him only showing a few force abilities.  As for flashy combat I totally disagree the prequels where far more flashy and put it to shame.  Plus the most ludicrous insult I ever saw in this thread is the beef with the woman being all super bull crap.  Did you guys see the same movie I did?  She was salvaging parts ever since she has been on that rock and your telling me in all the years alone she didn't learn anything about what she was digging up or taking apart?  Also Obi Wan didn't teach Luke much of anything and he used the force to bring the lightsaber to him to cut himself down on Hoth.  There have been several instances of the force acting through people.  Finally did you guys forget this was a Disney film?  None of this is new they have female protagonist and different racial backgrounds in a bunch of movies.  I except that not everyone will like this movie and it got its share of problems but at least do your homework and give better criticism over stuff that hasn't been explained through the countless source books out there.
 
I liked that the saber fights were simple like in the original trilogy and not spiny flippy retardedness like the prequels.
 
Yup, saw it yesterday. I went in as blind as I could (only saw trailers; tried to avoid opinions about it, though that was pretty impossible).
SPOILER AHEAD! probably...

My notes:

Pacing... It moved, at times, too fast forward, not giving me enough time to digest the scenes. There was generally little room to breathe. This kind of movie making (or writing in general) isn't inherently bad, but is often used to "a-muse" the audience. As in avoid them from thinking too much, or rather, do the thinking for them. As there were plenty of filler material in the movie they should, imo, remove those parts and add some "slow-the-hell-down" scenes in.

Too much action and "ohmygodwesurvived" moments. Kinda related to the point above as much action = fast pace. The action was good. However, in my case, it got exponentially harder to buy that these guys could survive it all. The latter point is, in some sense, true for the original Star Wars as well, but the original didn't have all these "amazing" action scenes to make them even less believable. The above being said, the action was pretty solid, imo. You truly felt the blasters. If sci-fi action is all you need (which I know plenty of people are content with), then you can't go wrong by this movie.

Plot holes, bad writing and such. Probably the movies biggest sin. SPOILER: For example. R2D2's conveniently recovering at the end just to serve the plot. I could buy it if there was any explanation at all, but there was none. "Oh time to find Luke, R2D2 activate!". And how did Poe (was that his name?) escape from Jakku again? Luckily the movie has plenty of characters, action and setting to salvage (at least some) the bad writing etc, for many people. But if you're like me, a consistent story without plot-holes should be the framework to fit the other parts in. Bad writing isn't automatically forgiven by the beforementioned. This point, however, is more or less true for all Star Wars movies.

Characters. To be honest I was pleasantly surprised by the characters. Most of them felt like Star Wars characters. I see many people digging Finn, and i can see why, but imo, it was really hard to read this guy. SPOILERS As i see it, he was supposed to be the face of doubt as a storm-trooper, however, all his actions and motivations felt kinda forced. Probably because he had no back-story. Maybe that was the point? Beeing an infant-minded grown-man, confused and scarred?
The part i feared the most was that SPOILERS Kylo Ren would be a Darth Vader clone. Luckily he wasn't. May be debatable, but to me he turned out very different than DV. But that silver cloaked storm-trooper captain was a waste of space.

The nostalgia catering. Ok, it's fine to pull on the nostalgia string, but, my God, did they have to copy the original? I wouldn't mind a few scenes, but when they blatantly, in-your-face, not hiding it at all, copy the overall structure, to me, that is very cheap. I don't know what else to say. Sure they did it on purpose, and obviously sold it that way. Still, it's cheap.

Despite all the crap I've said, I'm glad I saw it. Not being a huge Star Wars fan, I don't really care that much if there are inconsistencies with the other movies, the expanded universe, etc. I've always viewed Star Wars as simple, sci-fi action flicks with some deeper elements to them. As such, episode 7 was good fun (unlike episode 1 and 2). My favorite moment in the movie was the SPOILER final light-saber fight. It felt real and personal. Too bad they conveniently got split up by the planet splitting haha!

TMTDNR:
I'm not in fan of numeric ratings as pretty much everyone scales differently, but if it helps as a visual representation of my opinion: on a bad day: 4/10. On a good day: 7/10. On an average day 6/10. But I've only seen it once, so, yeah, shrug.
 
Thanks for that :)  Yeah, it's safe to say I'd hate it.  I can't sit through a film littered with plot holes, and I really dislike fast paced films that are doing it as compensation for story / character development (like the Nolan Batman films which I also dislike).  But at least you got some entertainment value out of it, which is more than I would.
 
I didn't really read through the thread but I recently saw the film and thought I'd share my opinion. (EDIT: this was on purpose to see if after posting anyone shared my opinion).


SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The movie had some good moments, but was ultimately squandered potential.


Pros -

Finn & Poe were likable, relatable, and funny.
Han Solo & Chewy had respectably large roles in the movie are were excellent.
The opening sequence was pretty cool.
There were a lot of actual costumes and not a complete reliance on CGI.

Cons -

Blatant feminist girl-power strawberries where they waste several lines of dialogue beating you over the head that Rey is a girl but doesn't need help or saving.

They repeat that strawberries multiple times throughout the movie, all the way up until the "rescue" team is again not "allowed" to rescue the girl, because she got out of it on her own.

Rey randomly learns advanced Jedi powers without any guidance just days after finding out that Jedi's were actually real from Han Solo, while it took Luke Skywalker a trilogy of movies to be on that level.

Rey is overall a generic Mary Sue character who has little difficulty overcoming any hardships that come her way, making her struggle very little if at all during the events of the movie. (She randomly decides to try the Jedi mind-trick and succeeds while captive. She is apparently an amazing pilot, and rarely ever misses with a blaster despite the fact she has little or no training with one. She even chastises Han Solo for offering one to her, stating yet again that she doesn't need it because she's such a badass chick. She bests a sith-in-training who has trained his entire life to one day rival the strength of Darth Vader by remembering that the force is real halfway through the fight, giving her extraordinary lightsaber fighting prowess that overwhelms Kylo Ren.)

Finn, although funny, is made out to be a bumbling idiot way too often. Han Solo and Luke Skywalker both had their strengths and weaknesses, making them and interesting pair. In this movie they are so focused on making you think Rey is a badass that they make Finn basically completely useless. I'm pretty sure Rey is better with a blaster than Finn, although it was what Finn was raised to do his entire life.

Kylo Ren himself was a wasted opportunity. Instead of making a character who is truly torn between his family and his grandfather's legacy, and showing what lead him to believe his grandfather was truly special (they could have shown Snook lying to Kylo to convince him that Luke and Leia somehow betrayed Vader because they were afraid of his power or something), they made Kylo Ren out to be some angsty teen who can't decide if one minute he's super evil or the next if he's gonna go cry and cut himself.

Han Solo's death was wasted, and offered no character development for Kylo Ren. It could have been the moment where he finally stopped being a pansy and became a cold, calculated killer, but that obviously didn't happen. Instead Han died because Harrison Ford didn't want to do any more movies, and Kylo Ren was the same person after killing him that he was before.

The movie in general had a structure ripped straight from episode IV, but done worse in almost every way.

A lot of scenes which could have been more impactful had extra effects, explosions, or artificial tension for no reason. The most remarkable being when Finn thought Poe died by seeing the wrecked tie-fighter, and instead of seeing its burning wreckage and solemnly mourning the loss, the fighter had to sink with CGI effects, and if that weren't enough, it had to explode after, as if to fill an explosion per minute screen time quota.

The movie was too fast-paced, where nearly every scene where people are talking is immediately followed by action. And every task they have to do is a very bombastic, life or death situation, with impossible odds and outcomes, stealing some of the thunder from the climax of the film because they had already been pulling stunts like that every five minutes of the movie.

I applauded them for using real costumes for some of the alien races, but the CGI aliens that were there were awful, especially the alien that gave rations out to Rey in exchange for junk. It looked absolutely awful, and even the worst costume you could find would have worked better.

Did I mention the movie gives you no reason to care about Rey? No details about her family or how she grew up on her planet other than she was a "scavenger" of old parts. She was shown being abandoned as a child, but at that young of age it is hard to believe she grew up independent in a "scavenger" environment. Even the horrid episode I at least made Anakin a slave child and gave you some back story, even if the movie itself was a joke.

I also found the actress portraying Rey, was probably the least impressive actress/actor in the movie (even though the movie was generally well-acted). I couldn't tell any of her expressions apart for the majority of the movie, and the reaction she had after she ran away from the lightsaber legitimately looked as though she was constipated. Before she ran away you had no idea what she was thinking, whether she was happy, sad, confused, sick, dying, had to use the restroom, etc.

Last but not least: "Supreme Emperor" Snook looked like a massive Gollum/Smeagol from The Hobbit/LOTR films with a couple gashes on his head. I'm not even kidding. People say he will look less ridiculous because his size was just a hologram, but I'm not concerned with his size. He just looks utterly ridiculous.

There are more complaints but I'm tired and writing sloppy enough as it is.

Overall, I'd rank this movie even with episode III in terms of quality. The movie is pretty crappy and not very well done, although it did have some cool moments and ideas that could have had potential. But it never capitalized on any of its own ideas or potential, and was too busy reminding you that CGI danger was present, but that Rey was such a badass that you shouldn't worry about her JUST BECAUSE SHE'S A GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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