The truth and other lies...

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@Dan - Putting this here so everyone can see
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He didn't post in this thread because he didn't want everyone to see. He was actively trying to avoid any involvement in this thread (thus why he hasn't posted here), and you've already been told not to bring him into it.

I really don't give a strawberry milkshake what he may have said on IRC. The fact remains he said it there, and not here, and carrying it over is creating additional drama for the sake of drama. STOP. ~Covarr
 
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You mean the first video you linked?

The wing doesn't disappear at 26-27.

As for Covarr's giant red text, I agree that we should avoid drama, but this is an issue that not enough people talk about, and many of the people who do talk about it are either misinformed or are uneducated about it. One conspiracy theorist starts saying things like "it's not a plane it's a missile," then a thousand people believe him without actually thinking simple things like: missiles look nothing like planes, or that there are over 50 known video angles of the second hit all showing the same plane taking the same flight path. To believe the second plane was a missile, you have to believe that 50+ civilian videos were all doctored by the government and that the 10000+ eyewitnesses in NYC who saw it with their own eyes are all lying.

The government story is about as full of crap as you can get, but most of the conspiracy theories out there aren't much better. From a scientist, here's the most likely and simplest explanation:

CEOs of weapons and energy companies wanted an excuse to go to war in a country that has tons of oil. The defense department "lost track" of a few trillions worth of money, so they conveniently destroyed the only existing records of them at the pentagon to cover it up, knowing that everyone would believe a plane hit the pentagon, even though it's located in the center of a few dozen miles of restricted airspace.  The thousands of people who died that day were collateral damage, apparently worth the several trillion dollars they've all been making since.

The "homeland security" laws are just bonus points for people with power so they can keep it. There's no conspiracy here. It's a bunch of rich powerful people doing what suits them best. It's just a happy accident that they all make money from the same kinds of things.

People are disgusting.
 
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If you wanted to avoid drama, this thread should have never existed, 9/11 and the conspiracies surrounding it breeds drama like nothing else on earth.
 
@Shard

Are you trolling me? :D Well first of all, you can believe what you like and it is not a problem to me. For me the cnn is a clear 3d model I can tell what an animated plane looks like and I assume most people would agree.

Anyways, of course I was talking about the slow motion again why suddenly the first video ?
You didn't find the absolutely incorrect relation between the size of the plane and its position in the room with the wing disappearing funny so I just give you the next position in the video where the cgi rendering has a mistake.

Here is the video again:


At 0:26 the top of the left wing is behind some background building, examine 0:25-0:28. It is the same mistake happening with the red building. Comparing the size of the red  building and the plane you should already be able to tell that the plane must be far in the foreground. If you say that the plane must be behind the building that is just one more clue for poor rendering. The plane would have to be much smaller.

Anyways, at 0:26 the building that the wing disappears behind is clearly in the background. Also I suggest you do some research, there's a lot more wrong with the cnn broadcast. Also the angle and view should be impossible, I saw someone reconstructing in on google earth and there wasn't even a clear sight. The cnn is a cgi joke.
 
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If you wanted to avoid drama, this thread should have never existed, 9/11 and the conspiracies surrounding it breeds drama like nothing else on earth.
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Without humanity we wouldn't have any drama. But we are here so the thread do exist too.

Conspiracies do ever exist. The oldest known was in the civilization of the Sumer: the Brotherhood of the Snake (I only say Metal Gear...  :wink:).
Anyway debating how the 9/11 has happened is meaningless. The vast majority knows it is a lie, what should shock more is that this is an often used method (for the USA has nearly any entry into the war its seed in a civil drama) to manipulate people for a short moment. And believe me, if you are involved in this, if you are a victim of it, then you will act the same way as the Americans did, even with all the knowledge you have. The emotional shock will make you unresponsive for logical decisions.
That's why even an obvious lie can be look like the truth.
Was Hitler a mad man? Who knows. All what we knew are from books, which are produced by the same institutions, which has told us that the buildings only perfectly collapsed because of the planes. I knew that our German history isn't the entire truth. There should be existing a book for politicians which has more information and say that Poland was aggressive against Germany before (it is said that they killed Germans in there villages along the borderline). They truly believed that England will be on there side in a case of a war, because of a hidden contract with England.
“Polen will den Krieg mit Deutschland, und Deutschland wird ihn nicht vermeiden können, selbst wenn es das wollte“.
Marschall und Generalinspekteur der polnischen Armee, Rydz-Smnigly
"Poland wants the war with Germany, and Germany will no be in the position to avoid it, even if they want it."
Marshal and Inspector General of the Poland Army, Rydz-Smnigly
http://www.eigentum-ost.de/?p=891

Of course this doesn't look so well as the fairy tale of the Blitzkrieg, it also will not look so well in the books that Japan has surrendered two days before Hiroshima. (Btw. the nation of Wutai is inspired by Japan the same as Shin-Ra represents the evil west)
Also how Goldman Sachs has ruined the Greek lately and has initiated a economic crisis wasn't shown in the majority in the media.

This lesson two of propaganda: Tell the truth about what has happened, but it is not needed to tell the whole truth.
People act as if propaganda has died together with the III Reich.

@ meesbaker maybe they had to hide something differently:

One last thing: keep it civil here, I can be wrong with what I have said and I will except this if someone proofs me that I'm wrong. I do not take any information for 100% true from whatever side it will come.
 
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@Kaldarasha

Yeah, that's very well possible. There are many possibilities but the cnn footage is definately a lie just like the clarke or the fox chopper broadcast where the nose comes out lol.

What do you think about the police car :D I mean it isn't important but another hint that all media broadcasts were in the hand of the conspiracy. Maybe someone having fun?? I mean how does a backward playing police car come into a news cast? :D

I mean this isn't like a technical mistake someone really made quite an effort to cut that car in just the car layer playing backwards :O It's not someone riding backwards like hell fast there is a car cut in which is playing backwards, the sirenes spin the wrong direction.

Why would anyone do this? Probably having fun while no planes had to be smacked into broadcasts?

 
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Yeah it's getting to the point where people are just ignoring facts and ignoring evidence. This isn't going to go anywhere useful.
 
Yeah it's getting to the point where people are just ignoring facts and ignoring evidence. This isn't going to go anywhere useful.
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True, I was bringing evidence to you and you ignored it. You ignored that the nbc chopper 4 I linked in my first post here shows no plane. You ignored that the cnn video I linked multiple times is full of rendering errors. You think just because you made up an absurd explanation how the wing could get behind the red building you have facts?

I examined the video further and found many more glitches with the wing inside the smoke. The most obvious one is at 0:23. The  right wing is behind the fassade of the tower! You may have to play/stop 0:22-0:23 two or three times to see it and you will eventually see how the white boarder of the wtc is completely in front of the airplane's wing. Have fun ignoring that and closing the thread.

 
Can we please close this thread? PLEASE?
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I look how this unfolds, but, except of dispute between meesbaker and Shard, I don't understand your demand for closing it.

Yeah it's getting to the point where people are just ignoring facts and ignoring evidence. This isn't going to go anywhere useful.
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That's the problem with media these days, it is hard to prove with it facts and evidences, because we are able to manipulate it.
Honestly I haven't read all the comments and have only clicked at the video link, and my first was that the airplane do look very constructed, but the video looks so bad that I can't tell if it is or not. The impact does look OK for me, we have thanks to Hollywood a fairly wrong imagination of how a crash do look.
But this is a good example of placing some other theories out, to let people look stupid.

This is an officially used video by the media, but no media does talk about what you can see here:
I knew that this film exist from a book from 1994.

I would more like to here other 'theories', instead of debating 'if or if not' without come to a point. Elsewhere we should really close this... :|
 
True, I was bringing evidence to you and you ignored it.
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50 videos showing the same plane crashing into the same building in the same way IS NOT evidence that nothing happened. You're taking one video, saying (wrongly) that it's fake, ignoring 50 other videos of the same event, and ignoring 10,000 eyewitnesses who were there. Who's ignoring evidence?

You showed me a video, said wrongly that something special was in it, and cited it as evidence of something unconnected even if it were there. That's like saying "Look at the Mona Lisa. You can clearly see she Jesus behind her. Therefore aliens exist."

You know what? Let's say the video's fake. Let's say it's a 3d plane shopped into the video on top of a missile or whatever you think it actually was (I mean, you think its simultaneously a 3d model and a real military plane at the same time. I'm humoring you at this point). If someone were going to fake a video, why would they make a mistake like that? It takes MORE WORK to hide the wing (which isn't hidden, but I'll go along with your horrible pattern recognition) than to let it sit in the frame. Why would someone take a video, fake it perfectly, then ADD IN a mistake like that? You have to assume so many nonsensical things to believe what you actually believe.

People like you are the reason nothing gets done about anything. You're too busy making up imaginary problems in a fake reality so you can apply nonsolutions to them instead of actually helping people in the real world. The terrorists won that day, and you're not helping.
 
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@Shard
They made a mistake because they had to rush. Now I'll give you the point that you said that I am basing a lot on a single clip that's true :)

But that's just because you said it wasn't fake. I thought it was a clear fake and then I planned to go on with other videos(you still haven't commented the nbc chopper, why even argue if you can't explain that?) but you really take that shaded low res 3d model for reality so it gets longer than I wanted it to.

Why the mistake happens is actually not important but at 0:23 the wtc  building is in front of the right wing of the plane so it must be a 3D plane. Doesn't happen with a real one.

Now on your question, what if I spoke the truth and the plane was 3D rendered and faked? Well this means that any other video of that impact is likely be faked as well. Imagine there was a real boeing flying into the tower. Then all videos that have the explosion should cover that, right? So if a video has the explosion/smoke etc. perfectly synchronized with all other videos it MUST also show the real plane right?

Unless you say the whole thing is animated but that is really hard to do. At least in a few hours. So it is more likely that the original of a video that shows no plane during the impact instead of a fake one probably didn't have any plane at all. Or something smaller like a missile that is hidden behind it.

The reason I came up with that last idea is just because all videos that look very fake are very well synchronized. And that is very hard to do in a few hours. No one has the time to create some 3D simulation that covers all plane perspectives from any point precisely. So I assumed that there must be some guideline which also minimalizes the effort of drawing the plane.

Again on the nbc live footage. I linked it in my first post, probably you better do the research yourself. It is the nbc chopper 4, searching this will give you numerous results. None of those show a plane, though. How? Why? The only thing that can hardly be recognized is a very small object flying towards the tower. Some say it is faked and didn't appear in the live shot. Others say it is a small missile or so but it is sure no boeing.

So that fits quite nicely does it not?
 
i reley dont wan to say this, but i have to now.

I'd been hoping to stay out of this thread, but I can't ignore this one.

The most obvious one is at 0:23. The  right wing is behind the fassade of the tower!
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In CGI land, Z-sort errors:
1. only happen with 2D assets or post-processing effects
2. happen with the entire 2D asset.
3. Are related to shortcuts made for the sake of running things in real-time, and would never happen in anything pre-rendered.

So why does it look the way it does? Because the wing is the same color as that part of the building, the video simply is not as high resolution as it needs to be, and the scaling algorithm used to blow the footage up has made a mistake. I've seen things like this all the time, and they're pretty much always scaling errors.

Among other things, we know the building really did explode, and all non-plane footage is clearly real. Of all the errors that could have been introduced adding a CGI plane, Z-sort errors are not among them unless they cause the plane to be in front of something it should be behind, not the other way around.

Just to be clear here, I am not intending to debate any other point in this thread except for the plane supposedly being behind something it should be in front of. This is a scaling error, not a z-sort error, and isn't really evidence of anything.

Also, here's the second crash from 43 angles. Do with this as you will.
 
Can we please close this thread? PLEASE?
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The thread stays as long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks. At which time it will be closed and everyone involved will get warnings. I don't want to prevent free speech and everyone is allowed to have their own beliefs.
 
Just wanna say, I can guarantee the planes really did exist, and really did hit the twin towers.  I saw it with my own eyes, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just plain wrong and/or crazy.
 
Possible that it is a resolution glitch. Still I find the plane to look very constructed and unreal actually ;)

Well, whatever you believe I think it is always good to question your version and research again. I'm currently doing the same. I'm still sure that the cnn vid is fake but that may have multiple reasons.

Anyway I'm outta here. Whatever course this will have I just have more fun getting back to modding than making up weird conspiracy lol :D

The thing is I just can not deny what my eyes tell me and I always found all those planes to look rendered, hence I can't buy the governmental version and go searching for evidence. Have fun guys ^^
 
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@Shard
They made a mistake because they had to rush.
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If you had bothered to actually read my post, you would have picked up on the fact that it takes more time and effort to put that mistake in the video than it takes not to have the mistake in there at all. If they were in a rush or lazy, that "mistake" wouldn't be there. Of course, this is going along with your delusion (or perhaps misperception) that the wing is ever behind either tower. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe you actually see it disappear because there's a lot of grey-on-grey, or maybe your monitor's color fidelity is poor. I promise you, I've watched those few seconds about 20 times, and it's very clear the wing is always visible.

It's nearly impossible to fake an image of the world, mostly because you have to match the quality and the lighting of the original (both of which are pretty hard to do). Faking a video is even harder. Faking 50 videos is even harder, especially when 50 different random people own the originals. Which seems more likely to you:
1) The government found, confiscated and doctored 50+ different videos from private citizens and organizations before they uploaded any to youtube, doctored them to put a 3d plane in the video, added mistakes to the video on purpose by accident, gave the videos back to the original owners (because multiple people upload their versions to youtube), and made 100 people on the flight disappear, all within five minutes of the event (because many of those clips were broadcast live), then within the next year they convinced every new yorker on the street to lie about what they saw and 100% of them complied, or...
2) A plane hit the building.

The government has spouted enough retarded BS about the issue, you've got plenty to work from without having to make this garbage up. When you say things like "Hey, I know thousands of people saw it and a plane actually disappeared and the people on it actually disappeared and there are dozens of videos showing the same thing, but this ONE CLIP looks kinda sorta fake so I'm going to ignore everything else" you're only lowering your own credibility. It's the same reason nobody takes creationists seriously.
 
i didn't care about what cause the towers to fall and even now i still don't care about what cause them to fall. the only thing i care about to this day is the mental and physical damage this event caused to the people, not buildings or the planes, just the people who there or was learning of this incident and still dealing with the aftermath to this very day.
 
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